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Pit Matchup Discussion - Pokemon Trainer

Sniper X

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Madison, Alabama
Try to keep squirtle from being your opponent. Pit can handle the other two fairly easily (easily being relative to skill of course). Squirtle is just such a small target and so fast. And his aerials aren't to shabby either. If he is out on the field, I would suggest dodging around a lot until he is tired and his attacks get weaker. Then he's an easier target. Of course dodging around a squirtle is slightly difficult...

Just my opinion though. I'm enough of a noob to know i don't know nearly close to everything that needs to be known to effectively fight PT.
 

Recoil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
332
Location
Huntington Beach, California
Try to keep squirtle from being your opponent. Pit can handle the other two fairly easily (easily being relative to skill of course). Squirtle is just such a small target and so fast. And his aerials aren't to shabby either. If he is out on the field, I would suggest dodging around a lot until he is tired and his attacks get weaker. Then he's an easier target. Of course dodging around a squirtle is slightly difficult...

Just my opinion though. I'm enough of a noob to know i don't know nearly close to everything that needs to be known to effectively fight PT.
Just wondering, is there a grab release on Squirtle that Pit can do?
 

Suyon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
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Location
In the Velvet Room
Charizard shouldn't be problem at all for pit.
Ivysaur could approach pit by using his bair and forward b and somehow land a Nuetral B on Pit. But really it should be no problem for Pit.
Only problem that Pit should have against PT should be Squirtle. He's small and agile and it'll be a bit hard to hit him with aerials and arrows. One way to rack up damage is to use Fsmash on him since he's small and just use Dsmash to kill him off.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
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Feb 20, 2008
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8,722
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Skyworld
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GoldAngelPit
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Charizard generally is the easiest for Pit to handle/ He's big, vulnerable to SH N-air approaches, a bit target for arrows, somewhat easy to gimp if the Pit knows how to do it, slightly Forward Chainthrow him (hoping the Charizard gots bad DI), and Pit can just pressure charizard easily, similar to Bowser's situation, without the whole Fortres outta Shield and all.

Assumed Matchup: 60-40 Pit
Is he really easier than Bowser? Well, Bowser's Up-B outta shield and grab release tricks as well as outranging Pit a bit help Bowser. Charizard may slightly outrange Pit and is faster than Bowser, and is slightly less resistant to Pit CGs due to his slight floatiness, similar to D3's, but he doesnt got the grab release and Good "outta shield" options like Bowser does, which can even stop a Pit from CGing him, or stop Pit from finishing his 2nd hit off his Fsmash.
Both do have to approach Pit though due to arrows, and Bowser is just about at 55-45 Pit, slightly leaning to 60-40 Pit, but belongs at 55-45.

Ivy is slightly more difficult only because of his range (The B-air) which troubles Pit for being outranged, but Ivy hates edgehogs so much, and Pit can probably gimp him the easiest with his controllable arrows, and his Up-B ledge hogging, which allows him the grab the ledge quickly even after previously grabbing on the ledge. A good ledgecamping Pit should know this.
Razor leaf flies off at different places, and arrows can cancel it out if they connect, but sometimes its hard to know where they'll end up, but Pit should generally be able to outcamp Ivy, make him approach, where Pit is outranged, but not as threatening as evil Marth.
If only Bullet Seed wasnt that hard to escape, and we can try SH N-airs if the Ivy dont know how to use its range to its small temporary advantage.

Assumed Matchup: 60-40 Pit to 55-45 Pit
Ivy's B-air has better range than Pit has overall, similar to what a spammy F-airing Marth can do to Pit, but not as penetrating and quick as Marth's range. However, Ivy is just so easy to gimp as Pit, and he gains NO reach when he misses like Olimar does. Pit needs to time his Up-B to ledge (or get up from ledge) to avoid getting stage spiked by Ivy's Up-B.

Sqirtle is the worst of the three, being the smallest and hardest to hit, and less vulnerable to SH N-air approaches. We can conclude though that practically almost any squirtle loves spamming his aerials and all. SH U-air should be a slightly better solution than SH N-airs. Some squirtles, when on the ground try to mindgame u by going back and forth with their Shellshifting, and may slide towards you with a Usmash. The Spinning Jab or Angel Ring could probably stop this.
As for gimping him, you better have good precision on your arrows, and try to keep squirtle away from being really high above the platform to keep him from doing Side-B back to stage (unless u wanna hit him). Edgehogging does pretty decently, but trying to hit the turtle will be ur main problem.

Assumed Matchup: 50-50 Even, barely can lean to 55-45 either side
He's small enough to avoid arrows easier than the other too (and can crouch under straight arrows), and spamming F-airs can trouble Pit a bit, and it can outprioritize Angel ring. Pit may have just about equal range that the turtle has, but Pit's just gotta know how to hit someone so small and agile. If squirtle was easier to hit, Pit would probably have a better advantage
I really havent fought PTs often now, but I used to during the beginning of Brawl, but now with so many tier-dependants around, they just don't seem to come around anymore, but I know that much.
 

Nikenick

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
287
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The Netherlands
I play PT for fun, I know a lot about PT in general and a bit of the match-up because of the AiB ladder but I haven't really played pro PT's offline.

Squirtle is probably the hardest to handle. He's a small target, which makes him hard to hit with arrows. His aerials are fast and have good range, though Pit's fair has more range I think. Shellshifting can be annoying, but it's not that hard to handle once you know how much Squirtle will slide. His jab combo comes out really fast ( 1 frame I believe) so watch out for that. You can mirror shield his upB recovery very easily, since it's really predictable. His side B can be reversed with an attack, but I don't see much squirtles recovering like that since it's really punishable. The moves he'll probably try to kill you with are his usmash, fsmash and his dthrow. Usmash can be shellshifted for great range, fsmash has SA frames and Squirtle's grab range is quite big though he 'rolls' a bit if he misses a grab so he's punishable if he misses you.
This matchup is 50/50 imo

Ivysaur is a bit easier. Ivysaur's projectile becomes useless against Pit, since Pit can outcamp him easily. His neutral B has invicability frames and does about 30~40% damage if sweetspotted, so it's always a move to watch out for. His usmash is redicoulously strong, it can kill you at 90% if not sooner. His Bair outranges all your aerials, but it doesn't has as much as priority as GaW's so you can just shoot arrows if Ivy likes to spam it. Ivysaur is probably one of the easiest characters to gimp, just shoot some arrows and edgehog, use wings of icarus on the edge to keep your invicability frames if neccesary.
This matchup is 55-45 Pit imo

Then Charizard, the easiest for Pit. He's a big target so he's an easy target for your arrows and your nairs. He can be grabbed twice, it's not really a chaingrab like against DK or Bowser. His side B does about 40% damage if sweetspotted, but you shouldn't fall for that since it's kind of slow. His ftilt and dtilt have amazing range, dtilt being a good kill move as well and it's quite fast. Charizard can kill you with almost any move, but most of his moves are slow. Charizard doesn't has the grab releases like Bowser, but his grab game is still kind of good. His dash grab range is big, Dthrow can kill at early percentages and his other throws have decent knockback and damage. Charizard has 3 jumps, his UpBand a glide but I still think he's easily gimped since his glide is slow and his falling speed is big. Just shoot arrows to gimp him.
This matchup is 60-40 Pit imo
 

MrEh

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
6,652
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Honolulu, HI
Watch out for Rock Smash. Seriously.

Other then that, space well against Zard and don't get grabbed.
 

Tien2500

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
1,432
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NY
I think Charizard is being a bit underestimated here. Charizard is definitely easy to combo but he can also do big damage when he does hit. Rock Smash works great defensively and if its hit correctly it does around 35% in one shot. Flamethrower can also do quite a bit of damage and can be used to punish spacing errors. His grab is quick and painful. I think Pit may have some difficulty getting the KO though which helps Zard. Likely 60:40 Pit but no worse.

As has been said Ivysaur's bair outranges everything Pit has (execpt arrows of course). Nair is also a fairly useful aerial (quick and decently damaging but poor range). At close range watch out for bullet seed. It is very quick (the popup hit box comes out on frame 3 I think) . Good Trainers will be innovative at using it (see some reflex videos.) Ivy's ftilt and dtilt are also good and I believe they are quicker than Pit's close range attacks. I think Ivy is better at close range. Pit definitely has the better projectile but I wouldn't say Ivy's is totally useless here if he uses it wisely and sparingly. Off the stage Ivy doesn't do well obviously but if recovering from high up he's far from helpless. I see this as being fairly balanced unless I'm missing something that swings the matchup one way or the other. 55:45 pit I'd say or even.

I think Squirtle has a decent advantage in this match. With his speed and size arrows are not very useful and his attacks are quicker than Pit in the air or on the ground. Pit does have range on him though I guess. Squirtle should never ever be using his side B to recover (in fact you're not likely to see this move at all. Once it was figured out that jumping on him equals a free smash the move became useless). If Squirtle is high enough above the platform he can probably get back with or without his side B. His Up B recovery can be altered somewhat but its still fairly predicatble and can be mirrored. If Pit is forced to recover with wings of Icarus it should be easy to gimp him. I'd say somewhere between 55:45 and 60:40 for Squirtle.

Of course my play against Pit is limited so feel free to correct me on any points. Something you must consider though is how Trainer switches. For example Charizard is not likely to be in at 0% to avoid being comboed. In this match up I'd start of with Squirtle do a decent amount of damage and then switch to Ivy. Try and get the KO with Ivy and then switch to Zard at higher percentages. At this point I'd play very defensively and wait for Pit to try and KO me while getting in a damage with Flamethrower/rock smash/grabs or whatever else is safe and appropriate. Eventually when I'm KOed I'll have a fresh Squirtle against a weakened Pit.

Thats the gameplan at least. Of course the match may or may not work out that way. But things like this need to be kept in mind against Trainer. Its not 3 separate matchups. Its one big matchup. On the whole I'd say it comes to about even.
 

Kool Aid

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
418
to pit, i think the only pkmn you have to watch out for is squirtle. hes too quick for pit. so i suggest you use alot of the AAA's into angel ring on squirtle.

for ivy, when you are at low dmg, watch out for his NeutralB. other than that hes pretty predictable

THE ZARD, what i do is i grab the up air. keeping charizard in the air helps me. his moves are too slow and like ivy, he is also very predictable.

IMO:
Squirtle: 45-55 pit
Ivy: 55-45 pit
Charizard: 60-40 pit
 

shinyspoon42

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
429
Location
Portland, OR
Well, I main PT so I'm here to help you guys. Remember that I'm just a scrub, so don't rely too much on what I say. :laugh:

:squirtle:Squirtle-

You guys are gonna get worked against squirtle, arrows will never work, and squirtle is so much faster and smaller then pit that it will be really tough. Hydroplaned u-smash is really dangerous, because it is good for kills, and goes the entire length of FD, and squirtle is really small so you can't stop him effectively. His D-throw kills early, and he will rack up damage fast with b-air, and try to conserve f-air for the kill. You have no grab release options, and it will be hard to grab him anyways. Squirtle will attack from the air mostly, as his aerials are the best aspect of his game. Expect to get juggled, because his u-air is really good and he can throw out his aerials almost constantly. His hydroplaned pivot grab travels really far, and is great to land a d-throw for the kill. His jab comes out on frame 1, and his jab and f-tilt are interchangeable as constant little turtle pokings. His up-b can be reversed, but most of the time is used to latch the ledge anyway. Squirtles like to shell shift every so often to just throw you off, and if you whiff an attack they can punish. Your best hope is to land a smash, because squirtle is really light and will get KOed easily. Overall, this will be a tough match for pit, and is in squirtles favor. 60-40.


:ivysaur:Ivysaur-

You are all underestimating ivysaur, ivysaur will try to pressure you to keep you from using your arrows, because she is fairly large and razor leaf isn't able to camp back effectively. B-air has better range then everything pit has, and she will use it and abuse it. B-air can be fast fallen into f-tilt, which does a large bit of damage. Ivysaur is all about spacing and wracking up damage, and if you don't DI right she can pull off a fast fall n-air to bullet seed combo for over 50%, so watch out. Her n-air comes out fast and wracks up alot of damage, and links into other moves well. F-air won't be used as much, but it hits above and below her as well as in front, so watch out if she uses it to approach. D-tilt will be used alot, as it does decent damage and is better then what you have on the ground. F-tilt does a lot of damage, and has excellent range. Her jab reaches far as well, and ends fast. Her pivot grab is fast for a tether, and b-throw can kill. At early percents watch out for D-throw to vine whip, or D-throw to U-air chase. U-air is one of her best killers, as well as U-smash. F-smash kills well too, and is used to poke you often. They kill at ridiculously early percents, so watch out. Try not to get above ivysaur too often, as that is her best area with bullet seed, U-smash, and U-air all being lethal. She out spaces you on pretty much every attack, and does alot of damage. She is a dangerous character, and too many people underestimate her because of her one weakness; the ledge. She is the easiest character in the game to edgehog, and so many people laugh her off as the worst pokemon. A smart ivysaur will save their second jump, and if you try to edgehog then they will jump and use an attack to remove you from the ledge and then latch on. Also if you edgehog and wait too long, she can use vinewhip to stagespike and take you down with her. But play it smart, utilize your arrows and faster attacks, and remember to edgehog smart. She racks up damage faster then squirtle, and spaces the best of the three. Overall, she'll be tough, but remember to just grab the ledge and utilize ledge grab invincibility, and ledge get-up invincibility (as long as you are still getting up, she can't tether on.) This match-up is tough, but roughly even. She beats you on stage, but get her off stage and you can pull off an early gimp. 50-50.


:charizard:Charizard-

Charizard has an extremely excellent grab game, with a huge grab range, some good throws and some grab release shenanigans. His spike is ridiculous off the edge, with a huge invisible hitbox beneath him. His b-air comes out quick, and his n-air shields his whole body. His infamous side-b, the rock smash, does arould 40 to 50% if hit dead on, and is an early killer. Even if you hit him, the rock shards can still hit you, so he can use it similar to how snake holds grenades as a defense. His flamethrower does a lot of damage, and has good range. His D-tilt is his best killer, and has good range and kills early. His f-tilt is useless, as d-tilt is always better. His jab is fast and decent. His up-b has super armor frames, and he has 3 jumps so you can't gimp him well. His u-air juggles well, and the hitbox stays out and his whole body is part of the hitbox. His pivot grab, d-tilt, and rock smash are what you need to watch out for. His u-smash reaches far, and is good for hitting from beneath. His F-smash is like bowsers, but better. Its still very crappy, but might be used to punish for a kill. D-smash is mostly useless, unless they are doing a ledge trap. Mostly, not a hard matchup as you can spam your arrows and your faster attacks, and just avoid him mostly, doing hit and run. If he gets you though, he can cause serious pain. This match-up is your advantage, 60-40.



:pt:Pokemon Trainer-

Overall, Pokemon Trainer goes even with Pit, and either player can win. Each of these match-up percentages change depending on the individual PT, and which pokemon is their best. For me, the match-up would be 60-40 squirtle, 60-40 ivysaur, 30-70 charizard. My best is ivysaur, but the inherent advantages of squirtle who I'm decent with give me an advantage with both, but my charizard is completely worthless. Also remember that if they don't think they can beat you with one, they'll do a quick grab>throw>down-b to switch to a better pokemon, so the matchup could stay bent in their favor. A fun match-up, and playing three characters in one game can be challenging. A fun fight, it could go either way if you play well.

50-50 overall, but can be bent to PTs advantage because of pokemon change.
 
Joined
May 16, 2009
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I have great Pit experience from a friend of mine.

Squirtle vs. Pit is 55-45 Squirtle

I love fighting Pit as Squirtle, his arrows are not as useful due to his small size. Squirtle outspeeds you in the air and ground. His Mobility helps him get past your range as well. Off stage Both can do well as long as they are the one going the offensive, although Pit can pontentially take the stock off while Squirtle just racks on an extra %. Offstage is where you clearly beat him. Also, he is very light, so you can kill him earlier.

Will add on later.

Pit vs Ivysaur
 
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