Pit Matchup Discussion - Falco.

[BumbleBomb]

One note as well, this falco ALWAYS throws his reflector out when I use ar. Occasionally I can get my shield up but most of the time he gets me with it, which causes me to trip sometimes.

 

[dualseeker]

One note as well, this falco ALWAYS throws his reflector out when I use ar. Occasionally I can get my shield up but most of the time he gets me with it, which causes me to trip sometimes.

I responded to your last post up on my last post. Check it out when you have time ^__^.

Anyways, I'm guessing the Falco does this when he gets out of Angel Ring when you hit him, right? Well, it isn't full proof, but the best way to prevent this is to only press the B-button (or whatever your special move button is) only once. That way, Angel Ring won't have as much ending lag, and you'll have a better chance of reacting in time to his Reflector. Although, as I said, it isn't full proof, and if you do get hit by it and trip, react in the best way that suits your situation.

Although, if you are getting hit by his Reflector and you did not hit him with Angel Ring, then you are probably using Angel Ring too close to Falco, or using Angel Ring for too long. If you are going to use Angel Ring in this match, BE CAREFUL on how long you prolong it. If you are close to Falco, only press the B-button once so that you can react to any other move (again, pressing it only once isn't full proof, but it does help). If you are far away, you can have time to prolong it.

And, in my opinion, it's better to use Angel Ring in the air as opposed to Mirror Shield in the air when reflecting lasers, since Angel Ring covers more area.

Hope that helps ^__^!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

read my falco summary in the temporary MU thread. i play norcal's finest falco's all the time

 

[BumbleBomb]

thanks for the help, i will give that little trick with short hopping then airdodging a try, it will be something he wont expect. And this Falco DOES DACUS VERY consistently, he has incorporated it very well into his gameplay. Ive been able to look for it better and defend against it most of the time, i just wish pit had a little better DACUS so I could give him the same threat, even though Pit's usmash isnt quite as good as Falco's.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

if you jump cancell usmash on pits second dash step you get step 3s boost but in the time it takes to get to step two allowing it to be fast and useful as opposed to slow and useless.

 

[BumbleBomb]

Personally I think advanced wing techniques will help simply because they make pit more unpredictable. I really am just now trying to incorporate the wingdash. Winglanding is more difficult, I think I may be doing something wrong there

 

[dskank]

camp the edge til you high enough o.o
i dont mean stay on the edge, i mean edge of the stage. not too much to where you get knocked off, more so to the point where if you DO get hit by a laser it wont knock you off. not to say that a pit on the edge stand for one irritated as shlt flacko, nevertheless if he gets anywhere near you pretty much just jab or fsmash.
worst case scenario you hit his shield and fall off the stage out of range of the grab.
the pit i play constantly worries way to much about the cg. if you watch alot of dk/wario vs falco, or simular mu's where getting chain grabbed is that much more deadly, the good falcos tend to just play normally, and if they get the grab, then the go with it. this is more common amongst flackoh that really know the mk mu.
angle your arrows so he dosnt reflect em back up your butt.
if hes off stage and if he lost his second jump dont let him come back. play really smart and chances are that'll be the stock. arrows and jab, maybe a smash, til he gets under the stage and make him suffer.
id say id right more later cuz there is alot more TOO right but im way too damned lazy

nice combo vid

 

[Kuro~]

usmash shouldnt kill to around 140+ with the right D.I pit is heavier than yall give him credit for.

Fresh fsmash kills at 120-130 on falco. easy enough. Bair kills at like 90-110+ or so. Our jab is not as fast as his but has better range. Use that. Jab cancel dtilts and grabs work well. dont WoI under smashville.and be safe with it on bf fd and lylat. utilt is good. ar is good. Pivot arrows at unsuspected times is good. And normal ones. everything else i agree with. if you get him off the stage try your damned hardest to make it a gimp/kill. oh and inf jab is good to.

 

[Nitrix]

Also, I have a question:

]Is it true that Pit can kill earlier than Falco? I can understand if it's Bair, but I don't think Pit's smashes beat some of Falco's smashes, like Usmash, which is just as annoying as Fox's.

Pit can definately kill earlier than Falco in this matchup. This is because Pit has much safer kill setups than Falco does. One of Falco's biggest drawbacks is that he has no safe and reasonable KO options. All of his smashes are quite punishable, and this means that killing with Falco can be very frustrating at times because you need to gamble a little every time you want to land a smash. If the Falco can't land smashes, then they will probably try to land a tilt or b-air at a high percentage. Killing with Falco isn't always easy.

Pit on the other hand, has much faster smashes, a killing aerial, a dash attack that can kill if fresh, and can also gimp Falco more than Falco can gimp Pit. Although this matchup seems unfair at times because Falco can sit back and lazer, its important to remember that Falco eventually has to make his move. The key is to not lose your cool amidst all the lazers and phantasms. Remember that if you don't get hit by a smash or B-Air, then it almost doesn't matter how much damage you have.

Also although playing Falco in short-range combat can be annoying, it is necessary for Pit. The key is to space your jab like a pro, because if it is properly spaced then Falco will have a but of trouble. The tricky part comes in when Falco's jab gets in range, because then Pit's jab will lose out.

 

[BumbleBomb]

What's the best approach on bf? I try to stay near the edge to avoid the CG but I'm sure I need to be more mobile. The approach from the air is more difficult for me but it may be that I'm being to predictable. This is why I think I may need to learn dive-bombing and winglanding. Would this help?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

not really

 

[Zonderion]

What's the best approach on bf? I try to stay near the edge to avoid the CG but I'm sure I need to be more mobile. The approach from the air is more difficult for me but it may be that I'm being to predictable. This is why I think I may need to learn dive-bombing and winglanding. Would this help?

not really

I lol'd at this!

 

[BumbleBomb]

noted...

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

oh yeah a great thing to do against falco if you get the grab at 0-% is CG him to the edge>dash attack>second hit jab cancel>:
1) if you know you ate their jump with the jabs WOI refresh and go for skull jump>WOI or "wind spike" as ive been calling it.
2) instead of cancel start spamming jab infinite. i can almost guarentee this will get you a lot of free damage. just make sure you time your jabs to stop at a time that allows you to escape unpunished.
3) instead of cancel do third hit jab into arrow spam their jump away>see number 1
4) cancel into dtilt into either: a) (you can start with full hop arrow if u want)> fair, nair, dair WOP them>edgehog. b) (can start with full hop arrow if you want) full hop AR as they start descending>if you make sure to land AR with the blades just over the lip of the stage AR ***** falco so hard on the edge its almost ( but not quite ) broken. also fun fact if you start AR at Yoshi's Island on the second line from the edge it posistions him so that AR is sideways acting as roof over the whole edge just screwing falco over for good amount of damage and mega mind games.
5)cancell into grab>duh

 

[pulse131]

stupid mindgames work on chain grabber. when your at zero just walk or even run up and just grab. ;p

 

[Nitrix]

What's the best approach on bf? I try to stay near the edge to avoid the CG but I'm sure I need to be more mobile. The approach from the air is more difficult for me but it may be that I'm being to predictable. This is why I think I may need to learn dive-bombing and winglanding. Would this help?

You don't really need to approach on Battlefield. Now I don't mean Falco has to approach you by any means, but this matchup is alot of

- Falco does A
- Pit adapts with B
- Falco does C
- Pit adapts with D
- Falco does A

with some fighting mixed in and the occasional chaingrab if you get sloppy. This means that you don't really approach, but you need to pressure to force Falco to act. Falco can't just sit and spam lazers, because you will reflect them or Arrow Ring his face off. But you can't just do that because he can phantasm or do other options. Battlefield is a very small stage so it discourages camping.

Sometimes attacking out of a glide can help in this matchup as long as you don't get predictable.

 

[Abel1994]

Im alwayse fighting Falco left n right gets so annoying how a chaingrab gives them auto %50+

 

[BumbleBomb]

Im alwayse fighting Falco left n right gets so annoying how a chaingrab gives them auto %50+

Couldn't be more right. But I'm always able to get out of it at around 30% if im DIing or jumping.

 

[pulse131]

got some matches of earth v dehf at apex. im sure its somewhere on these boards im just far to lazy to look so here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnlJ1riMhNE&feature=related
for those who dont know earth is one of the ***'s who came over for apex. he 2-0'd coney and went 0-2 vs dehf but the second round is pretty much how the mu should be played although it is lacking in tech skill imo.

 

[Kuro~]

Earth never played DEHF that person had the name wrong and never changed it >.< ask Larry himself


a good idea for the mu is Vex vs Xzax.

theres like 2 or 3 sets of 5 pit vs falco. NOt to mention awesome music lol.

 

[Blubolouis]

I liked the match but I think you can throw in more arrows than that. His reflector has some ending lag, so if he tries to use in a bad spot you may punish his commitment.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I liked the match but I think you can throw in more arrows than that. His reflector has some ending lag, so if he tries to use in a bad spot you may punish his commitment.

Yeah I tend to use more arrows against falco too. Between curving them not only can you make reflecting them a minimal threat to you, you can also curve around the reflector shield (ocassionaly) and still hit falcos body especially if you are in a jump with him on the ground.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

however if you are below 36% and you are too impatient to just camp until HE gives you that percent yo can just shoot straight arrows until he reflects them back and then put yourself up to 36% with your arrows since they do more damage. however if you are not patient enough you should work on your patience as while the above does let get in there faster, we all know that making him come to you is better than vice versa if possible.

 

[EpixAura]

It's weird, but on paper, this MU seems 55:45 Pit, still, I've played it enough from both sides to say it's definitely the other way around.
Falco outcamps Pit, but not by much.
Falco beats Pit at close range, but not by much.
Pit beats Falco in the air, but not by much.
Pit KOs easier.
Pit can gimp easier.
For Falco's chaingrab, I find there are 2 good options.
1. Simply camping him with arrows, and when he gets close, jumping around him or moving to the ledge and camping from there (Sure he outcamps Pit, but we should get some good damage in, and it's better than the alternative of getting grabbed).
2. Take a page from MK's book and Dair camp. It may not be as effective, but I feel like it's worth a try most of the time.
You definitely want to wait until you are at ~40% before fighting close range. I personally love Angel Ring in the MU, as it beats lasers and phantasm, and is an excellent move for a first approach, but be careful, because he will begin to predict it. Also note that Pit's Fsmash is great for punishing a shielded Phantasm. At close quarters, remember that he's not the only one with a chaingrab. CQC is fairly complex, as both characters have fast moves. Falco's jab is retardedly good and he has a nice Bair, so... yeah. Get him into the air however possible, because that's were Pit beats Falco. It's been mentioned before, but if you can, while Falco is off stage, arrow him while he is level with you and about the perform Phantasm, then Mirror Shield/edgehog Firebird. If you fall behind, remember that Pit can kill much easier than Falco, unless he gets a good read and gets an early Fsmash on you.

As a Falco player, I see Pit as a hard target for lasers because of his reflector, and even though I know I can outcamp him, I know I can beat him in CQC as well, so I approach, get predicted, get airborne, and get *****. In other words, if you're feeling particularly patient, you can camp with a focus on reflecting his lasers so that eventually, because no damage is being dealt by either side, Falco will approach. Maybe.

 

[Abel1994]

when i fight falco in biggining i usually arow him and when he arrow spam I USER A AT CALLED SHIELD WERE YOU JUST SHIELD AND IT REFLECTS! AND WAIT UNTIL HE COMES TO ME!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

STOP BUMPING THREADS THAT DON'T NEED BUMPING PEOPLE.

actually we should ge tthis thread locked as the discussion is incredibly thouroughly discussed. hell kuro i wouldn't even bother starting a new falco discussion. this one covers it already

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

when i fight falco in biggining i usually arow him and when he arrow spam I USER A AT CALLED SHIELD WERE YOU JUST SHIELD AND IT REFLECTS! AND WAIT UNTIL HE COMES TO ME!

Seriously, this abel kid must be trolling.

 

[Xcallion]

Seriously, this abel kid must be trolling.

In theory it's possible to force a falco to approach by mirror shielding.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Will a mod please lock this. Ima start spammin a mod name for name search if this ain't locked when i wake up 2morrow

 

[Xcallion]

Will a mod please lock this. Ima start spammin a mod name for name search if this ain't locked when i wake up 2morrow

You'd better get started

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Got it.

 

[Purple]

Locked .