Pikachu's Thunder is extremely fast? (frame 1?)

[SamSun]

I don't know exactly how fast Pikachu's thunder comes out, but it's fast enough to break out of many combos/strings, try it out. even if you get interrupted during the startup, the lightning still comes down. really strong option.

 

[Shaya]

"Combo breakers" seem to maybe be intentional in this game a bit?

Have we seen more than just Megaman and Pikachu seemingly having frame 1 options like this?

 

[SamSun]

I think Megaman's is a glitch. wouldn't be that surprised if it gets patched out haha.

Pikachu's is cool though! I hope more are discovered on other characters.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Could anybody provide a video to show how it works? I have a hard time imagining how this is supposed to work out.

 

[Shaya]

Basically the "thunder cloud" is activated on frame 1 of pressing down b.
So if you're hit out of the animation at all, it'll still thunder, 100% of the time.

Think Snake being able to grenade hold technically in one frame.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Basically the "thunder cloud" is activated on frame 1 of pressing down b.
So if you're hit out of the animation at all, it'll still thunder, 100% of the time.

Think Snake being able to grenade hold technically in one frame.

This is my understanding. It doesn't "break hitstun", it's just that if you're out of hitstun for even a frame your down-b will save you. The thing about airdodges and jumps is that they commit to an animation (airdodges have start-up), so not being able to airdodge or jump away in time has probably contributed to a lot of the combo game that we have found so far.

I wouldn't be surprised if fast aerials like Peach's nair aren't also used in this way

 

[Xinc]

The thunder would be able to activate immediately (the thunder cloud), but it still takes a while to come down, so while it does act as a combo breaker, the comboer (not the Pikachu) would have some leeway to redirect the combo the other way, or end it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I think Megaman's is a glitch. wouldn't be that surprised if it gets patched out haha.

Pikachu's is cool though! I hope more are discovered on other characters.

I've heard a theory that Megaman's works more due to the particulars of how Rush is summoned and propels Megaman up. Basically it's a frame 1 summon that forces Megaman to bounce, instead of Megaman jumping super high while Rush then appears below him. It then interacts oddly with the combo breaker type of situations we've seen.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I've heard a theory that Megaman's works more due to the particulars of how Rush is summoned and propels Megaman up. Basically it's a frame 1 summon that forces Megaman to bounce, instead of Megaman jumping super high while Rush then appears below him. It then interacts oddly with the combo breaker type of situations we've seen.

I suspect it probably summons Rush through the input alone, regardless of Megaman's current state (so long as he's not dead), sort of how like Rosalina can command Luma while in hitstun. And since Rush appears in contact with Mega Man, he's forced into a jump due to contacting a spring. Just like how in Brawl, springs would interrupt whatever you were doing to have you jump off of them. IMO Zelda's Phantom Slash should be able to do that too, because that would be REALLY helpful to her.

Also, I suspect that all of these "combo breaker" tools we keep finding are intentional. Not sure if Pikachu needs it, though, but I feel like Megaman definitely needs that option in order to keep up with the rest of the cast.

 

[AttackstorM]

Could anybody provide a video to show how it works? I have a hard time imagining how this is supposed to work out.

 

[Chiroz]

Also you can have more than 1 thunder out. I was able to get 3 thunders simultaneously when I jumped into Link's jab combo spamming Down-B. Although only the second thunder hit Link, the first one missed and the second knocked Link away from the third.

 

[Roko Jono]

This is a pretty funny mechanic. I would spam this like someone spamming wake up DP in street fighter. If it's truly 1-frame, we could also use this to find out what moves are "true" combos

 

[guedes the brawler]

would only work with close-ranged people. MArth wouldn't care much for thunder CB for example.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

This now begs the question, is this a consistent mechanic for "Summon" type attacks?

Off hand I can only think of Sonic's up B. Has anyone tested if it can cancel like Rush and Thunder?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Dedede Forward-B, perhaps?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I just heard on Shofu's stream that Bowser Junior's up B may also have this property.

This property may need its own name and some testing done. Like using the special out of Little Mac's jab combo or something. In actuality all this really is is a move that comes out in 1 frame that can be used as an escape. Still, its worth exploration.

So far things we've found do this are:
- Megaman Up B 1 (Rush)
- Pikachu's Thunder

Things we should explore:
- Bowser Junior Up B
- Sonic Up B
- King Dedede side B
- Samus Down B
- Robin's Side B, down B
- Charizard down B?
- Duck hunt neutral B, side B, down B
- Villager side B?
And anything else that merits testing here, even custom specials

Would Marth's up B fall into this classification as well? Its not a summon but it IS a 1 frame special that can interrupt whenever there is an opening (I'm just assuming it works the same in Smash 4 as it does in other Smash games).

 

[Chiroz]

I just heard on Shofu's stream that Bowser Junior's up B may also have this property.

This property may need its own name and some testing done. Like using the special out of Little Mac's jab combo or something. In actuality all this really is is a move that comes out in 1 frame that can be used as an escape. Still, its worth exploration.

So far things we've found do this are:
- Megaman Up B 1 (Rush)
- Pikachu's Thunder

Things we should explore:
- Bowser Junior Up B
- Sonic Up B
- King Dedede side B
- Samus Down B
- Robin's Side B, down B
- Charizard down B?
- Duck hunt neutral B, side B, down B
- Villager side B?
And anything else that merits testing here, even custom specials

Would Marth's up B fall into this classification as well? Its not a summon but it IS a 1 frame special that can interrupt whenever there is an opening (I'm just assuming it works the same in Smash 4 as it does in other Smash games).

The 3DS has a limit for objects on screen. Most "summon" abilities are not allowed to spam.

King DeDeDe can never have 2 gordos on screen. Even if you try he will just swing his arm and throw nothing. Same withe Megaman's neutral B and side B. Same with Villager Side-B, you can't throw another one until the first one explodes.

I think Pikachu's thunder doesn't have this limit because the move has huge amounts of lag and Sakurai and the programmers overlooked the fact that you could be able to summon more of them if your opponent hit you mid-attack.

Same with Bowser Jr.'s Down-B (I don't know about his Up-B though).

Any summon ability that doesn't have huge amounts of lag normally can't be repeated until the first one is completely done.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

The 3DS has a limit for objects on screen. Most "summon" abilities are not allowed to spam.

King DeDeDe can never have 2 gordos on screen. Even if you try he will just swing his arm and throw nothing. Same withe Megaman's neutral B and side B. Same with Villager Side-B, you can't throw another one until the first one explodes.

I think Pikachu's thunder doesn't have this limit because the move has huge amounts of lag and Sakurai and the programmers overlooked the fact that you could be able to summon more of them if your opponent hit you mid-attack.

Same with Bowser Jr.'s Down-B (I don't know about his Up-B though).

Any summon ability that doesn't have huge amounts of lag normally can't be repeated until the first one is completely done.

The property I'm referring to is not spammability but is the ability to use it to escape from combos that have at least 1 frame out of hitstun.

I may make it it's own thread although my inability to test it kinda sucks.