Pikachu's Thunder Change

[Ryan.]

The Miiverse update from April 3rd, 2014 brought us an interesting change to Pikachu's Down Special.

"Pic of the day. Pikachu's Thunder now starts off with a thundercloud that deals a Meteor Smash! From left to right, you can see this combo starting with Pikachu throwing the opponent upward, Meteor Smashing with the lightning strike, and then directly attacking. Foes can dodge, of course, so the attack won't hit consistently, but when it does, it sure feels good!"

Do you think this change will be better? While you can now use this move to combo, in the past it was often used when your opponent was high up in the air and you could easily star KO them. Post your thoughts below.

 

[Thor]

I am guessing it will prove to be a nerf because if you send them too high for Thunder to hit upwards, it will meteor them back down - while you might be able to follow up, this could also mess up KOs if they DI the Thunder properly out of range (or meteor cancel it - that would REALLY suck).

My dream Thunder would have the bottom 2/5 or so meteor smash (or spike, but that ain't even fair), and the top portion launch off the top - then we have a truly malicious edgeguard (Snake would struggle to go high, and recoveries like MK struggle to go low or high] and a good way to KO earlier off the top.

If the entire Thunder meteors, this is actually probably a buff because the edgeguarding game will be stronger, despite weakened off-the-top KOs (and I don't think players can sweetspot from underneath in this game (I might be wrong), but if not that will REALLY mess up some recoveries like Fire Fox). But it did just say the top part.

However, if it links reliably it will probably be a buff because combos are good. From a more casual perspective, this might also be Sakurai's way of slowing thunder spammers - they just don't die off the top anymore with the thunder (the base would still be a problem, but you can't get easy KOs because someone was knocked into the top of your Thunder). This is of course strictly a guess.

 

[Ryan.]

Very nice analysis. I agree with you and that would be so cool to have the bottom meteor smash while the top cloud KOs. I didn't like when people spammed the thunder, that was annoying, and I think we'll get less of that now (hopefully).

 

[Garde Noir]

I think offstage thunders will be exponentially more terrifying now. Before they were just used as an air-stall, and had a chance to hurt, but because it's a meteor spike, not only will it air-stall, but it'll send the opponent below you, for a safer recovery. Pikachu battling, at least for a little while, will have to be done ON STAGE.

However, the old saying goes "Never be above a Pikachu."

I'm still debating whether that will be applicable.
The reason it was said was because of the lethality of Up-smash to Thunder. But now it's ironically the other way around, and I'm not sure the killing potential will be the same. And yet, if it causes a few frames lag to the opponent, it could make a scary chain-combo racking up big damage.

I don't think Sakurai showed us enough with that one picture to properly say yet.

 

[Thor]

that would be so cool to have the bottom meteor smash while the top cloud KOs

Brawl Minus actually does this, except only the cloud and the very start of the Thunder sends upwards (like 4/5 or more of the Thunder itself is a meteor). That's partially where I got the idea from (I once wondered why Thunder didn't meteor since it goes down, but I had discarded the idea until I saw Brawl Minus implement this). I personally think Brawl Minus thunder has too much of a meteor portion and not enough of a vertically upward launching portion, but whatever.

Incidentally, I have no idea how long Thunder lags, but if it's supposed to be a short enough lag to follow up the meteor, Thunder hitting up -> Thunder meteor might be a combo (which would be just silly in my opinion, but very amusing) if they miss their DI.

And does it look to anyone else like the Thunder meteors them into the Thunder base, and so it's a T1->T2 combo? That's also kind of silly to me (wouldn't that be, by Brawl standards, like 25% or something?) but highly amusing if it's the case - then Thunder spam might actually be back stronger than ever (knocked into the Thunder? If you miss your DI, you're getting launched horizontally with a lot of knockback thanks to the base of the Thunder). Somehow I doubt this is the case, but the picture does seem to suggest this happens...

 

[Ryan.]

I had to google Brawl Minus haha, never knew that existed.

Man...hoping that the Thunder spamming isn't stronger.

 

[Z1GMA]

Anyone else than me who thinks this is a somewhat a nerf?

 

[Garde Noir]

Anyone else than me who thinks this is a somewhat a nerf?

Of course it is. But also in some ways you have to look at is as an opportunity. Some people won't expect it, it'll change how we play, and how others play against us, and it'll be a challenge.

 

[KurashiDragon]

I'm probably not the first person to notice this but doesn't the Thundercloud seem...... lower than in brawl. If it is then that may lead to less spamming and more strategy. A low hanging thundercloud might do some seriously good edgeguarding if your willing to to take the risk falling off stage.

 

[Garde Noir]

I'm probably not the first person to notice this but doesn't the Thundercloud seem...... lower than in brawl. If it is then that may lead to less spamming and more strategy. A low hanging thundercloud might do some seriously good edgeguarding if your willing to to take the risk falling off stage.

We don't know how large that stage is, how the camera was positioned, or whether it's just a stylistic effect.
However, if you're right, work that in conjunction with the statement I made earlier about offstage thunder, and Pikachu just completely changed his game.

 

[Ryan.]

Grade Noir said it perfectly, I think. Could be considered a nerf but also an opportunity, and something different.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Thunder will still be a good move. Am excited to try it out!