Pikachu isn't solid?

[foxygrandpa]

I think the people who are playing pikachu on a tournament level are just amazing players. He has minor buffs from melee, but even so, I dont think he can compete with alot of characters in PM. Personally, I'm not a pikachu player but I honestly think he needs to be buffed to be able to keep up better against some of the new characters and attacks of pm. I would like to see him have his forward smash last longer at least.

I dont have much experience with him, so I might be wrong though.

 

[sheNanagans]

Pikachu is (in my opinion) Near the middle of the tier list, and I have had some success with him in tournaments, relative to my skill at least.

Honestly he has all the tools he really needs to be good, now that Quick Attack seems fixed (2.6b update). He has a good projectile, Recovery, speed, combos, and decent disjoints (Up Air, Fair, and F smash). There's not much you can complain about.

And Almost nobody plays him so you get the surprise factor.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Pikachu is (in my opinion) Near the middle of the tier list, and I have had some success with him in tournaments, relative to my skill at least.

Honestly he has all the tools he really needs to be good, now that Quick Attack seems fixed (2.6b update). He has a good projectile, Recovery, speed, combos, and decent disjoints (Up Air, Fair, and F smash). There's not much you can complain about.

And Almost nobody plays him so you get the surprise factor.

I can see where you're coming from. Thanks for the clarification. But I still think that he is knocked out relatively easy. For example, g&w is knocked out easy as well but is also equipped with a god tier projectile, hard hitting attacks, and smash attacks that last for a good amount of time. I think maybe making pikachus fsmash last as long as g&w's would be a worthy buff, without being op.
It's just my opinion though, maybe if he got more usage I would understand better.

 

[sheNanagans]

Yeah, Pikachu falls into that weight class where he is combo'd and KO'd pretty easily. and I agree he may need a small buff, But what would you buff on Pikachu?

Maybe Grab range, Fsmash, or have less lag on Skull Bash. but i cant really think of much else that needs a buff.

Pikachu is a strong Character that fits his nitche, and other characters are already weaker and in more need of a buff then the rat.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Yeah, Pikachu falls into that weight class where he is combo'd and KO'd pretty easily. and I agree he may need a small buff, But what would you buff on Pikachu?

Maybe Grab range, Fsmash, or have less lag on Skull Bash. but i cant really think of much else that needs a buff.

Pikachu is a strong Character that fits his nitche, and other characters are already weaker and in more need of a buff then the rat.

All of the things that you listed, I think should be implemented. And the only characters that I think are worse than pikachu are toon link and lucario and possibly squirtle, but he has untapped potential, a lot like pikachu.

 

[sheNanagans]

I feel like there are a few chars worse than Pika,

No particular order:

G&W, Zelda, Gannon, Tink, Squirtle,Sonic, D3, Maybe Link/Luigi/DK/Diddy

The mid tier of PM is kinda all interchangable but I agree that pika COULD use a buff, but there isnt much that can be buffed.

 

[B.W.]

Pikachu is not the worst character, and thanks to 2.6, he's gotten a good bit better. He still seems like he needs at least one small boost in some area to move out of mid tier, but it's not impossible to work with him.

Also, lol sheNanagans, at Link and T.Link being worse. But that's another conversation for another thread.

 

[Juushichi]

I don't think Toon Link is very good, but Link is most definitely better than Pika, imo.

 

[Anther]

I think pika's in a really good spot against most of the cast. He probably has a much higher learning curve in regard to knowing when and what to do than other characters.. especially if you're not playing him exclusively.

So far in P:M I think he's either even or can take the advantage against everyone except for maybe diddy, falco and mario. Eh???

 

[Tmacc]

I just picked up Pikachu this past weekend and I'm already doing better than I had with any previous character...he's definitely not the worst, I'd say hes about mid, around DK/Link range. I think he's in a very good spot, and a very solid character who can hold his own against most if not all characters.

I'll upload some videos of myself playing soon, hopefully.

 

[DMG]

Pike is OK. I'm cool with where he's at atm. The things I would change unfortunately would kind of strip away some of Pika's personality for the sake of viability.

 

[sheNanagans]

Pikachu is definatly better then Tink lol, He is pretty close to Link (though i agree link is probably better), you could argue either way. But again the mid tiers are all basically interchangeable in PM.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Actually, I think link and DK are pretty good, they just dont have very many neutral match ups. But, not wanting to get off topic, Im gonna compare pikachu to some other of the lightweights, like g&w, puff, and squirtle. They either kill early or have amazing mobility, where pikachu is only average in both catgories.

 

[Nausicaa]

I think the people who are playing pikachu on a tournament level are just amazing players.

Wat?
Please inform me, as this is totally contradictory to everything I've read or seen, and seemingly what everyone else is saying around here. Partially there being almost-none, partially because most don't even have fundamentals down.

DK, Luigi, Sonic, Squirt, I don't even know who else was mentioned here, but these have been some of the most obvious 'solid' characters in the game since day 1 2.1.

Pika in relation to that? I have no idea how you could think he's 'bad' in this game when he's not 'bad' in Melee and the game was almost balanced in a gravitation around his calibur of character...


But for realz...
Mewtwo for top tier. Pika is garbage.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Wat?
Please inform me, as this is totally contradictory to everything I've read or seen, and seemingly what everyone else is saying around here. Partially there being almost-none, partially because most don't even have fundamentals down.

DK, Luigi, Sonic, Squirt, I don't even know who else was mentioned here, but these have been some of the most obvious 'solid' characters in the game since day 1 2.1.

Pika in relation to that? I have no idea how you could think he's 'bad' in this game when he's not 'bad' in Melee and the game was almost balanced in a gravitation around his calibur of character...


But for realz...
Mewtwo for top tier. Pika is garbage.

Melee is my favorite game since it came out in 2001 and i've been playing since, but the game was not balanced, not on a competitive level at least. It would be rare to see a character that werent the usual 6 or 7 have tournament success.
And I think that luigi, dk, sonic, are pretty good. I think squirts good too, just doesnt get much usage.
I didnt mean that pika was absolute garbage, but I don't think he can put up to some of the better characters in pm.

 

[straydoggywog]

On a side note, I think a Waveland out of neutral B similar to Wolf's and Diddy's would be an awesome feature. It would give him another maneuvering option and would add another small, but fun element to his play.

 

[sheNanagans]

Waveland out of Jolt would actually be amazing.

Maybe add an airdodge out of Side B as well?
So you could choose to land on stage and waveland or just reduce the lag of the move off stage.

 

[Kerenthar]

As a Pikachu main, I think waveland out of jolt will screw up his approaching game or his use as a tool against edgeguarding.

I think P:M has treat Pikachu very well and the last changes goes into a good direction. Personally, I think Pikachu could recover his real bair from Smash 64, with that larger hitbox (perhaps with a discreet, Megakick -move from pokémon series- animation). Another buff I think could be nice is to give him the capability to pre-charge the Skull Bash so Pikachu could swiftly release it in middle of combos (EDIT: or a finishing move as well LOL )

 

[CyberZixx]

I think Pikachu is the worst character in the game. He needs something.

 

[deadjames]

On paper I think Pika has the potential to be really good, he's got speed, two versatile projectiles, QACs, kill power (he has the most powerful usmash in the game if I'm not mistaken), good combos, a reliable troll move (dsmash), and a pretty solid grab game, but as a Pika main in Brawl he just seems so foreign to me on P:M, and I rarely played him in Melee, so I didn't really feel like putting in the work to relearn how to play him, I just picked up Bowser instead.

 

[Kerenthar]

... kill power (he has the most powerful usmash in the game if I'm not mistaken) ...

Mewtwo got it in Melee XD

 

[B.W.]

No, Pikachu's u-smash has the most knockback of any uncharged u-smash. Fox has the strongest fully charged.

 

[Nausicaa]

Pikachu is the most difficult character to play at a top level at a fully flushed meta-game level due to the natural development of his niche in the meta-game.

He better be considered 'no as good as others' for a long time, or he'd likely be too good.

 

[straydoggywog]

How would a waveland out of jolt mess up anything? the option to not do it would still be there(If so desired). it could give more approach options by giving him less lag out of jolt, and a waveland forward. Defensive options back wavelanding backward whilst doing it. At the very worst it would just be a cute gimmick.

 

[Kerenthar]

... At the very worst it would just be a cute gimmick.

WTF is that?!!

The problem is that Pikachu does not slide very well like other characters so the benefit is too restrictive. Could be good, but definitely could not help as a real boost.
On the other hand, less lag out of jolt could work fine. That will make Pikachu game even faster.

 

[Juushichi]

o_O

what are you talking about

being able to waveland out of a move inherently means that there is less lagtime on said move.

being able to waveland out of jolt would be nice, but it would also allow him to camp a lot of characters a lot harder as well. If this is something that you do want, I guess go for it but I'm ot a huge fan of the implication of this.

 

[Kerenthar]

being able to waveland out of a move inherently means that there is less lagtime on said move.

Do inherently means that?

... I'm not a huge fan of the implication of this.

Not me either. My bet is over Pikachu 64 back aerial hitbox (and that annoying sound ).

 

[Vigilante]

I see, so Pikachu is not solid.

 

[Nausicaa]

Jolt being better won't make it BnB to his game, and shouldn't be BnB to his game now.
I'd rather they just keep increasing his Grab range with every patch (WHICH IS ALREADY LIKE F U MARTH MINE'S BIGGER) until it's as long as tether grab range, for lulz.
Otherwise, wait for players with other characters to figure out their crap, then figure out ways to get through their crap.
That's kind of Pika's thing, so wait for them to do that before you express concern for not being able to pull off your crap. You don't even have an intuitive experience of what THEIR crap is, so it's impossible to play a 'good Pika' right now anyway, in terms of top level play anyway. Gimmicks (things that work now but won't work as people learn) everywhere still. Wait for stuff to pass, then punish them all for being limited to futile options while you combo them with your abundant chipping tools.

 

[Anther]

The only way to get through the gimmicks is to play against them for hours as the character you want to beat them with ! If you wait, the gimmickers will get better gimmicks.

I feel like he's possibly right behind fox in goodness. I think consistently for pika in melee and brawl games is that he just does not perform well at a passive "just picked this character up" level. Once you can maximize your amount of movements and mixups and go about increasing known gimmicks with pika he'll probably be extremely rewarding, just as he is in brawl and melee. He's just underwhelming when you haven't built him up as all of his "omg this character is broken" tactics require more game knowledge than normal.

It's kind of how if you play against a pikachu with any other character it's hard to lose to them because their approach stagnates hard. His kit relies a lot more on overwhelming your opponent with potential options you can take if they stay neutral.