Pichu VS Ness

[Dark_Ness]

This has always been a curiosity of mine: How well does Pichu do against a good Ness player? I main both, but I know so little about the match-up.

I'm just curious as to what both characters have going for them and what they should do to try and overcome one another.

I'm looking for mainly Pichu players' tips, but Ness players are also welcome.

 

[T0MMY]

My friend plays a killer Ness. And I've played Simna's Ness on occassion, also a killer Ness. I can say that Ness' aerials can be a real problem for Pichu. But, Pichu has the speed and can get a decent juggle on Ness; he's quick enough to catch that PK Thunder when he's recovering, or just smack him right back.
But.. yeah, those aerials... ah, stupid d-air, you gotta be quick with your u-air.

The thunderjolts are almost worthless too, because they're so slow he can down+B it real quick. Skullbash & Thunder are almost always useless... yeah, so Ness outprioritizes aerials & Pichu has useless specials... Pichu doesn't have much else to offer... whereas Ness has baseball bats, yo-yo glitches, great aerials, and his down+B is actually useful.

I have a hard time pulling off a win against either of the players with their Ness, but I don't know if it's just because Ness is a good match for Pichu, or if they're just too good. But I've invented a lot of new tricks since last I played them, so maybe it'll be easier for me to overcome the outcomes.

 

[Dark_Ness]

Ahh, Simna. One of the fastest Ness players ever. Only outmatched in speed by Fox and Capt. Falcon, or so he says. I believe'em, though.

Anyways, back to Pichu and Ness. I figured Ness didn't counter Pichu to oblivion; he's not Pichu's hardest. Pichu has to beware of the f-air combos Ness can land on him; DJC only adds to the problem. For all I know, it could just turn out to be "f-air > f-air (flip) > f-air > f-air (flip) > f-air > b-air/b-throw" if you don't know what your up against. He' s gotta get Ness on the ground where there's still trouble, but not as much. The disjointed hitboxes can really screw you over if you're not careful. Basically, all Pichu has is only a few things.

1. Smash moves kick anus- use your best fakeouts to land them.
2. Ness may be the 3rd fastest character in the game, but Pichu's still pretty dang fast, and he runs faster than Ness normally runs.
3. Only TWO FRAMES of landing lag- it's AWESOME!
4. Possibly better and more unpredictable recovery.
5. Pichu's first jump is VERY maneuverable. It's perfect for mindgames, screwing Ness's recovery over, etc.

So yeah: Ness can be a pain for Pichu, but an awesome enough Pichu may be able to overcome the odds. Pichu sure isn't as flat-out easy as Bowser is for Ness, and Bowser still has things going for him.

 

[T0MMY]

Yeah, Ness can be really fast when you know how to use him, but I like telling people Pichu is #1 (in any situation) if you know his "true" potential. Hehehehehe.
And what is this with #4? Possibly? No doubt about it, Pichu's recovery is #1 ;^)

 

[phish-it]

Wait, Ness the 3rd fastest character, How? You were saying Ness' Psi magnet has a use for this match, which it does, but you could also use it to your advantage. Run and short hop a thunder jolt, and as NEss pulls out the magnet, hit him with a N-air. Of course, that is only if your opponent uses that move. Pichu has to play defensive in this match: attacking only when the oppurtunity is right.

 

[Dark_Ness]

Wait, Ness the 3rd fastest character, How?

If you see one of Simna's videos, you might know. It's full speed Ness at that.

About the PSI Magnet thing to your advantage, most Ness players will probably just dodge your thunderjolt approach and punish you. It's best to just give Ness something completely unexpected to think about and punish the little lag he has- probably with an N-Air, since that move is so good. You're right, Pichu should play defensively. I wouldn't say Hit-and-Run exactly, but I'd play defensively and as unpredictable as a weekly weather forecast. You can count on Ness being unpredictable, too, so I'd watch for his mindgames.

Oh, and thanks for the input, guys.

 

[robyextreme]

I'll post some pichu vs ness videos on sunday, but thats if I can find a camera.

 

[T0MMY]

Wait, Ness the 3rd fastest character, How? You were saying Ness' Psi magnet has a use for this match, which it does, but you could also use it to your advantage. Run and short hop a thunder jolt, and as NEss pulls out the magnet, hit him with a N-air. Of course, that is only if your opponent uses that move. Pichu has to play defensive in this match: attacking only when the oppurtunity is right.

When you play against a good Ness they won't down+B every time, they will do it when you can't hit them. Obviously they'll see you charging in and counter in another way.
No, Pichu should not play defensively. He should play cautious approaches and then go into a berserking rampage of yellow terror when he has the chance. But don't overextend yourself, always know when to break it off and recoup.

 

[Sweegy]

Incidentally, I shouldn't be surprised that Pichu only has one page worth of posts.

 

[Berry Mccloud]

I can tell u .. I kill like everyone with my pichu but last time i lost was against a killer-ness so He's not so good against Ness .. And don't try to attack ness areal when ur pichu, u'll get yourself killed

 

[phish-it]

When you play against a good Ness they won't down+B every time, they will do it when you can't hit them. Obviously they'll see you charging in and counter in another way.
No, Pichu should not play defensively. He should play cautious approaches and then go into a berserking rampage of yellow terror when he has the chance. But don't overextend yourself, always know when to break it off and recoup.

I know that, I was just stating incase they do do that.

 

[T0MMY]

I can tell u .. I kill like everyone with my pichu but last time i lost was against a killer-ness so He's not so good against Ness .. And don't try to attack ness areal when ur pichu, u'll get yourself killed

No johns.
If you couldn't take that Ness out, you have to get better.
And, yes, I go after Ness in the air. I took a few hits figuring it out, but I got it down now.

 

[T0MMY]

t0mmy (Pichu) + t!mmy (Kirby) vs DMStudios (Ness) + Foosjr (Kirby): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXJkMXYhyho

I know this is a teams match, but watch me totally go off on Tudios' Ness solo at the end. Kirby kind of just sits back and watches. Heh heh.

 

[Eight Sage]

Want to see that video, when you have it, post it

 

[<π]

I'm gonna say ness flat out counters pichu. He has too much range and priority in his arieals. DJCing makes him hard to predict and juggle.

Playing defencive doesn't do much for you since a good ness' never has openings pichu can exploit, yes... ever. djc'ed LCed fairs are horrible.

And of course playing agressive leads to sheild grabs and djc'ed bairs...

I've had goes at Angry Lobster's Ness (an amazingly quick central florida Ness) with my pichu a handful of times and he gives me back pichu's tail relatively easily every time simply because of how Ness is construced.

A very hard match up in easily in ness' favor.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Pichu does have some redeeming qualities. For instance, I would rather have Pichu as a room mate than Ness. I know Ness and he would eat all my food and take up the bathroom ALL FRIGGIN DAY.

With Pichu I would prolly have to spend some money installing Pichu(doggy) doors everywhere, but other than that I think Pichu would just squirm around on the floor...

but as soon as it evolves its gotta find its own place. I will not house a dirty pikachu.


but seriously...only thing Pichu has on Ness is recovery. Also, I would like to say that eating Ness' PK Thunder when he is recovering is a dumb way to take 8% extra damage. If you are able to jump out and eat his thunder than you are more than able to jump out and nair him to death without taking 8%. I'm not a Pichu player, but I'm gonna say that the best thing a Pichu player can do in this match is be creative.

 

[T0MMY]

Sorry, thought the link posted, but I fixed that with an edit. Go watch the clip now.

I agree with Simna. Ness would eat all the food and spend too much time in the bathroom. But I would make him do my homework. All Pichu would be good for would be hooking him up to my Wii for car travel.

 

[_clinton]

Funny, Simna I agree with you about the dirty pikachu, but after it became a Raichu maybe I would take it back (that tail is the bee's knees, + it is no longer a Pikachu and we can all appreciate that).

Great video BTW I love seeing a good match.

Anyway Pichu has another + over Ness and that is his taunts, they beat Ness' any day of the week (even PK thunder name spell or sparky body taunt).

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

NUH UH! ONLY NESS CAN DO THE SARCASTIC TAUNT! lol

 

[_clinton]

Well I like Pichu's taunts more ok.

 

[Coen]

Who says Pichu's taunt isn't sarcastic? LAWL

Although I hardly ever play this matchup, it's definitely not in favor of Pichu (as are all of his matchups). Everything that's disjointed (Ness fair, right Simna?) automatically owns Pichu. Like Simna said being creative is a good solution. In most (read: every) cases both players don't know what the heck to do anyway. As for the facts both can combo eachother, Pichu's recovery > Ness recovery, Ness has that meteor Pichu doesn't have, and both characters are relatively short-ranged.

Simna, quote and correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i refuse to quote u...lol

Ness has pretty good range overall....a mix of short range and excellent range attacks(the excellent ones being FAIR which is tied for longest in the game, and DASH ATTACK which is the longest in the game, and fsmash which is nicely long)

The one place Pichu outranges Ness(and Pikachu oddly) is grab range....lol

 

[Delphiki]

When I play Simna with Pichu he actually does better than my ICs. Don't use aerials when Ness is on the ground, and make sure to stay out of PK Fire range (goes for ICs too 0_o). Running SH reverse Neutral B (lol RSHRNB) works pretty good for getting your opponent to use his PSI Magnet or if you run past them and fire it at them it will prolly hit when they drop the magnet. Keep in mind none of this will work on Simna ^_^. Try to get Ness in the air if you can, then pummel him with Uairs/U-tilts but keep an eye out for Dairs.

Good luck, and Simna's too good.

 

[T0MMY]

Strange, my Pichu does better against Simna than my Ice Cimbers as well... maybe Simna has some kind of strange love for Pichu and hate for the ICs, so he doesn't want to hurt the cute rat, but wants to pummel Inuit lovers with a baseball bat as though they were baby seals being clubbed.

 

[Delphiki]

Yeah I think that's it.

Britton you seal-killer......

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol its just that.....there is a trap that ICs can fall into that Ness has....and....if they fall into it then its bad news for them

pichu just has to be fought by more conventional means^_^

dont get me wrong about ICs tho....they can still wobble ness and everything....its just that Ness has a "wobbles the phoenix-like" move that really only works AGAINST the ICs^_^

 

[<π]

-__-

No offence, but you guys must not main ICs, they have far superior range and even ground speed the pichu. and while it is a bit harder to get the infinite off on ness since you ICs may not be together grabs still mean big damage and set up for an edge gaurd...

Seriously, no "experinced" ness is going to us psi magnet... like ever. it's not worth the potential 20 damage you'd get from chained nairs isn't worth 8 damage you get.

Ness in the air is just as dangerous for pichu as ness on the ground, djcing can destroy your juggling game cold and start an offensive for ness and the range of his fair is always a big problem if you are coming in from the front.

*My advice for this match up because I know you guys care*
Stay close, just out side of his fair range, uair shields to grabs, down throw to tech chaces (you know the norm) uthrow to nair at low percents, and of course utilts to grabs and utilts to nair or to fair to... something else.

utilt sets up for so much probablly my favorite grounded a move, decent range above and infront of pichu. Um... good for miss timed fairs or for covering ness' dairs...

Even still the match up is hard. Stuid ness fairs basically shuts down all easy ways for aproaching and pichu is tough to play well defencively.

kk, bye.

 

[T0MMY]

I wish I was going to Sac with !, but I have to be stuck up north. Otherwise I'd play some Pichu & Ness friendlies with Simna (and Pichu ditto Delphiki). But, alas, have fun without me >:^(

 

[Delphiki]

Too bad you can't come, Tommy. We managed to get a smashfest set up on incredibly short notice. Civil is on his way to pick up Simna. NK and Kev$ will show up later. TC1, DRGN, Tyderium, Anbu are coming. Tomi-X, Catnip, and the Marth Madness will hopefully show too. Commence T!mmyfest! lol

Anywho...

<3 I do main ICs, and after learning the match up a bit better and improving my own game DRASTICALLY, I faced Simna again last week at SBW VIII. My ICs performed better then than my Pichu would have.

And there is another thread in the IC forums on IC vs. Ness, which describes some of the reasons why Ness is good against the Climbers.


A quick note on Pichu v. Ness: Whereas <3 keeps in mind the Fair, what is even more devastating is the Dash attack. The range and priority are incredible, and it comes out just as fast as the Fair and can easily push you offstage. SDI/ASDI/CC down-towards Ness and tech if possible, this will give you invinicibilty frames which will avoid some of the other hits, and going inside as well as down will allow you to avoid the last, strongest hit. And look out for pivoted bats.......

edit: Simna's on his way over now so let's see if I can't pick up some more knowledge on this matchup ^_^.

 

[_clinton]

I wish there were tournies real close to here.

 

[<π]

Ness's dash attack is lame... yeah good priority , but it's after lagg is too long both to come out and to go away. Any situation that you can use it in you can just... block. your sh goes over it, you can wave dash to out of shield and crap to counter it... The ness' I play with almost never use that move. Fair is far better, LC-able, DJC-able... just way faster and it gives you way more options.

Yeah pivioted bats can be bad... but you shouldn't leave yourself open enough for that anyway, it is too slow to hit pichu unless you leave yourself open... you know?

done.

 

[Delphiki]

What Ness' do you play? The only good Ness I have played are Simna and Burnt Toast. Burnt Toast I two stocked, but Simna is an incredible player. Maybe the difference in skill causes our differences in opinion.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i accidently stumbled in here while doing my routine search of the words "incredible player"

 

[<π]

Angry Lobsyer and TheBettaPlaya, two central florida Nessesesses

 

[T0MMY]

DMStudios (AKA Tudios) is a really good Ness player. He might not be as good with Ness specifically as Simna but he definitely makes up for a lot of things by just being good with general tactics.