Pichu Neutral Game

[Kellen]

Sorry if this has been discussed already. But I'm very curious. Anything besides spaced Nairs and Nairs past shield?

 

[Comet7]

up tilt and down tilt are good in neutral as well. i tried out nair and down tilt immediately afterward with some success yesterday. up tilt can catch people out of bad approaches if you space it well. f tilt can be used to throw out a long lasting hitbox, but it's sort of niche. jolts are okay every once in a while. up air can do the same thing as up tilt but only for stuff above you (falco). bair is an okay alternative for nair since it lasts longer and does weird stuff to pichu's hurtbox.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Explaining neutral is pretty difficult to do in general, especially with a character like pichu who doesnt really get to approach it in the same way as most characters, but pretty much the goal is to bait things out with pichu's movement, then to go in and get yourself in the best position you can.

While nair is the general option that you'll see being used in neutral, all of pichu's neutral is pretty much just moving around to force an opening (and then you nair).
But there is other stuff too depending on the situation and position.

 

[the muted smasher]

The answer to everything as pichu is to nair better and sometimes that means to do something else to get a even better nair later on like bairing for edge guards instead to keep nair shield stun high or to do empties

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

This is minor but worth noting. If you're above 100% with pichu you might as well start spamming neutral B. You're already basically guaranteed to die in one hit even with good DI so you might as well milk the rest of your stock for what its worth. This is really, really helpful when you already have the stock advantage because you know sooner or later you're going to get a raw trade anyway (just how melee works) and the more percent you can tack on now the easier you're going to get the kill next stock with some CC shenanigans or something.

 

[the muted smasher]

Watching the self damage is counter productive I feel. I use the pummel just to keep nair shield stun more fresh.

If we land a fair grab take 4% to do 17% it's a better trade than the ones luigi or samus take but would do all day.

Also pichu shouldn't be dieing till 170%(on bf I've averaged 210% once) in a few match-ups like fox falco marth if You're on bf/dl64/Fd

They shouldn't be able to ever land those death combos early on and you shouldn't ever be hit by random smashes.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

They shouldn't be able to ever land those death combos early on and you shouldn't ever be hit by random smashes.

Its not so much random smashes I'm concerned with as more surprising things like reverse facing fox bairing out of shield, marth nairing out of shield, bowser punishing a roll with up-B, etc. Sometimes things come out of the blue, things you aren't able to predict. Unless you're isai one of those things is going to hit you eventually.

 

[Comet7]

i'm not sure about surviving as long as that outside of dreamland but being really careful with pichu can let you live surprisingly long.

 

[DerfMidWest]

keeping nair fresh is often very difficult, but very necessary. That's usually when I start throwing out the bairs and uair chains.
I don't think enough people pay attention to their stale move slots anyway, but it's especially important for characters like pichu.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

If you're able to get a grab in neutral chain throw can be a good option?

 

[Comet7]

chain throws aren't affiliated with neutral game that much. the only relation they have to neutral is scaring people into avoiding being grabbed so you could do other stuff. aside from that, it's just a punish. getting raw grabs with pichu is really hard though since a grab attempt is a huge commitment most of the time, and you don't want to get punished as pichu because you will just die. most grabs will come from aerials which set up for them really well at certain %'s.

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

chain throws aren't affiliated with neutral game that much. the only relation they have to neutral is scaring people into avoiding being grabbed so you could do other stuff. aside from that, it's just a punish. getting raw grabs with pichu is really hard though since a grab attempt is a huge commitment most of the time, and you don't want to get punished as pichu because you will just die. most grabs will come from aerials which set up for them really well at certain %'s.

What's the viability of nair -> grab -> chain grab. I know Marth can usually get it off a low percent fair.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Freaking dash dance grab is godlike. He's like impossible to hit with aerials because of his size and your u-throw does 10% and combos.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Pichu's dd is deceiving, but his initial dash is actually ridiculously tiny.
lets him sneak under aerials well though.
on that note, I enjoy doing advancing pivot utilts to intercept aerial approaches. Since utilt starts in your back and rises up it's actually really nice in a lot of situations.

 

[Comet7]

Nair to grab is godlike.

Dash dance grab works in some matchups. I really like it against Fox if I can predict an approaching nair. It shouldn't work that well against characters like Falcon and Marth who can bully Pichu with their superior dash dances.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Up tilt is amazing. <3

 

[ChivalRuse]

Thunder jolt is good in neutral too. It costs 1% and does 8% I believe. It can also combo into moves.

 

[Comet7]

Thunder jolt is good in some matchups and to mix up neutral a bit. There are characters like Marth that swat them away with jabs and what not, however.

 

[Chinaux]

Neutral B can help, just throw 2-3 out there.

 

[DerfMidWest]

using jolt to combo into moves (unless offstage) is generally really risky since jolt will get beat out by just about everything and people can just hit pichu through it.
That said, I use jolts to wrap around platforms and land underneath them on taller characters. It creates a very interesting situation. But it's sometimes unsafe too, so it's kind of a gamble.

Retreating jolts onto platforms are amazing against a lot of slower characters though, I talk about these a lot, but they are super clutch when you can just run away and jolt then retreat to the top platform or w/e.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The reward for hitting a jolt warrants a liberal use of the move in my opinion.

 

[DerfMidWest]

The reward for hitting a jolt warrants a liberal use of the move in my opinion.

Optimization is a very important concept for pichu. You do have to take risks in melee, especially with low tiers, but the goal is to minimize those risks as much as possible, even if it yields less reward.

There are situations where jolting poses no risk to you though, and that is where I advise it's liberal use.
Retreating with it onto platforms, even though it doesn't offer the greatest reward, puts you at no risk if done correctly. While every character can just deal with the jolt, the slower characters are more annoyed by this in particular because they are forced to respond to it or taking the hit (either by throwing out a move or being forced into shield), which allows you to just keep running while their movement is interrupted.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I like to use it as a tempo distorter rather than anything else. By employing a larger range of options against someone in neutral, you will make it harder for them to devise countermeasures.

 

[DerfMidWest]

The idea is to do things so that any counter measures the opponent can take put them in a worse position, so they are essentially forced to respond the same way every time.

 

[cadentoob]

I have personally thought of jolts as an extra layer of pressure onto an opponent because of its high stun on contact, very similarly to falco's lasers; the main differences being that pichu cannot autocancel (so more ending lag), jolt moves much slower than the laser and goes downwards then hugs the ground/main platform in most situations.
I take advantage of the second two attributes listed by using jolt and then following it to take more stage control from the opponent because they have to react to it. Also thanks to the jolts' good sized bounces off of the ground, most will have to full hop over it if they choose to avoid it vertically (sheik and samus are the only two common characters that will comfortably SH over them). Because of pichu's endlag for this move it cannot be used in close quarters comfortably, so I use it when my opponent has distance on me and I need to advance towards them. If they shield, take the hit, or jump away from me I gain a lot of advantage (unless they powershield it which is rare given its movement pattern) or if they full hop over it and towards me i should be close enough to hit them with an up air. You should be using it as a tool to gain stage control ( fairly often when you can't be punished for it) and also scout out what they are doing against it most commonly so you can punish it next time or help you with recovery.

ow i know I'm not talking about the neutral game anymore, but i want to get into how to use pichu's jolts so lets continue: Jolts should always be used when recovering high up where the jolts can connect back to the stage or towards oncoming opponents trying to catch an edgeguard. Now it's time to use that data you've collected from the neutral to make sure you recover back onto stage. If the opponent often jumped over your jolts before, send one out and then agility to the ledge or bottom edge of the stage. If the opponent preferred to shield your jolts, then send one out and agility to a platform above the main stage or right past them.
Pichu can use jolt well when recovering high on any stage, but cannot use it comfortably in the neutral on YS because it is too laggy and most characters have the time to run across the small stage and punish you easily, also fly guys can potentially get in the way of jolts even while recovering (I usually ban this one though). FD is one of the best stages for jolts because they cannot jump onto a platform so they can nearly be spammed there. DL is also great for jolts because the long center platform means pichu can gain more ground off of one jolt than anywhere else, but PS is also good for jolts because there is no top platform for the enemy escape to and is also decently long. FoD gets props for jolts being able to hit the side platforms at times, but is otherwise bad there so be attentive. Jolts aren't great on BF until you consider pichu has great platform movement there, which gives them enough merit to use them there at times.
TL;DR use jolts from a distance to force choices on opponents and gain stage control from doing so, they can be used liberally on Final destination and Dream land. Also use them while recovering high to cover yourself.

 

[the muted smasher]

Outside of recovery it's only really nice in niche tech chasing and You're punishing the action after their action.

Like I see falcon dding and I know when he will dash back I might jolt a platform above him but if I see him run around early I'll ff and put in his face or I sh at someone and decide to 2nd jump back jolt them cause I think they'll try to stuff out my nair.

Jolts aren't very good honestly, most of the cast can ram through them hit You and coast like fox's nair, marth, s f smash, ice blocks, sheiks dash attack/ the tilt after, falcon stomp and etc.

 

[cadentoob]

Yeah, I forgot to mention attacks can be another option besides jumping. But I just put the long rant to explain a good use of jolt but it really should be used sparingly as a mix-up because it is not a great move but rather another tool in pichu's moveset.

 

[Comet7]

yeah, jolts are useful, but they also suck, like kirby.

Yeah, I forgot to mention attacks can be another option besides jumping. But I just put the long rant to explain a good use of jolt but it really should be used sparingly as a mix-up because it is not a great move but rather another tool in pichu's moveset.

were you at mayhem, by any chance? when i was there, i heard someone talking about pichu (and not in a dumb way).

 

[cadentoob]

No, I haven't been able to hit tournaments for a while, so I have just been grinding tech skill and trying to hit the lab to try to find utility for each of pichu's moves. So please bare in mind that my speculations right now have little experience to go with them.

 

[the muted smasher]

Look into nair spacing

You can land a nair so that it has frame advantage on shield and fox is to far to shine oos punish it and You need to use it best as a reactive option with the mix up being an empty, cross-up and etc.

I'm a very polarized player sticking to really maxing out one move in spacing and etc. But my mind set that has always pushed me farther faster is how can I abuse my best/most flexible move more? Sometimes that can mean not using it better to come back to it in a minute.

Been making massive leaps with ics by playing a really lazy but detailed wavesmashing game compared to all the tech skill I grind ed in the past

 

[cadentoob]

I get that frame advantage on shield is good, but isn't hitting an aerial exactly 1 frame from the ground pretty hard to do consistently?
But yeah, pichu has great tomahawks and I always try to space aerials to avoid grabs.

 

[the muted smasher]

Pichu has a bunch of 1 frame windows I feel he should be hitting like frame 5/6 of his nair beats fox's nair based on height. And I can normally hit that 70% of the time

 

[cadentoob]

Is there a way to know I am hitting it 1 frame before the ground without 20XX?

 

[Comet7]

i don't remember the autocancel window for nair before it starts, but i think it's frame 2 or under. you could try doing nair as late as possible to get the autocancel and then time it slightly earlier than that. the specific amount of time you have to be in the air before nairing is 26 frames, btw. nair actually moves pichu down a bit on the first frame it's out, so he lands 1 frame earlier than he would from an empty short hop.

 

[Rhino1337]

Fair to grab is really good because it is multi hit and minimal knock back which lets you grab after you land. You can get a good fair by baiting out an attack and getting them when they whiff an attack

 

[ChivalRuse]

Fair is weak to crouch cancel though, and plus it does damage to you. Typically, I don't like using hurting myself unless I'm using neutral b since the reward is pretty high.

U-tilt is an amazing move with a disjoint. Nair has 6 frames of lag when l-cancelled and covers a lot of stage when you dash into it. Grab to d-throw or u-throw for 10% and a potential combo or tech chase. D-tilt has decent range and low recoevery frames. That's pretty much your entire bread and butter. Uair and up-smash are good for punishing people for poor positioning or dealing with certain approach angles.

 

[Comet7]

up tilt is good but it's limited. that said, if you can make it count when it's applicable, then it's great.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The hitbox is HUUUUUGE.