Personally think DK is top tier

Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
4
#1
I have DK as a secondary and frankly, he's so good. I've gone to locals and bodied people with him every time I use him. His f-air is certainly one of his best moves and as I'm sure you all know, pairs up greatly with dash attack. At my last local, I was fighting a Wario and evened up the stocks (1-1) I was at 150 or so and just had to go sicko mode on this dude. All I had to do was dash attack > sourspot f-air > d-air and he died at 32. Besides that, I've found great success with the character to the point that I almost want to main him (but I can't run out on my boy Marth like that).

I'm not sure if you guys agree but I can explain in detail and more in depth if I need to so don't be afraid to ask about X or if Y is a good matchup.
 

Haden

If life is so fair, why do roses have thorns?
Premium
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
217
Location
Your moms house.
#2
I personally think he's on the bottom end of high tier. Dash attack isn't exactly the "safest" move, nor do I consider his fair to be his best button, considering it's only really good as an ender. Backair not only strings into itself to kill offstage, but it makes platform drops safer and has more reach than a great plethora of moves. You really only killed him at 32 because, as you said, you were at 150%. That's called the Rage Zone. DK also has a very powerful grab game, as he's one of the FEW characters who can really kill off of a grab consistently, but that also makes his priority option predictable and easy to punish.

DK suffers from extremely glaring weaknesses however. These weaknesses prevent him from being the "top tier" status you want to place him under. He's slow-ish, his frame data is dogsh*t and he's a giant hurt box waiting to be comboed with a 0 to death which you'll find on a GimR combo video a week later. DK is like every other semi-viable heavy, he outright loses to any compitent player who isn't willing to be bad enough to give you a bunch of free grabs. Did I forget to mention that he is super easy to edge guard from above?

By no means should DK be underestimated, but you sir I believe to be overestimating the character and his authority over the meta.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
4
#3
I was about to get to his b-air but I guess you beat me to it lol. Anyway, I do agree that he has weaknesses but I've seen players overcome his size with well timed b-airs and good reads. I'm aware that rage affected that play but I was actually trying to say that his weight allows him to use his rage often and effectively (I'll admit I failed to mention that whatsoever). I would argue that f-air is still viable to be a threat when in neutral as it can start combos and racks up plenty of damage, but of course it's much riskier than spamming b-air.
 

Haden

If life is so fair, why do roses have thorns?
Premium
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
217
Location
Your moms house.
#4
Anyway, I do agree that he has weaknesses but I've seen players overcome his size with well timed b-airs and good reads.
This is why I brought up player competence earlier. A solid DK can make the character look top tier against less experienced and less skilled players, but the moment someone of equal caliber or higher enters the matchup, especially with an actual top tier character, DKs weaknesses become extremely visible and often ends up getting shut down, sometimes it even seems free. The better a player roster gets, the harder it will get for DK in the meta. That's generally been the case for any heavy in every smash title with the exception of Bowser in Smash 4 who got a grab buff that was so beneficial to him that it virtually made him a high tier.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,931
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
#6
DK's advantage state is Top Tier, that's for sure. None can wreck up damage when he gets going like DK. But his disadvantage is horrible. Potentially the worst out of all the super heavies. I do think DK is really good, but not exactly Top Tier. He's way too inconsistent for that unfortunately.
 

DaRkJaWs

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
429
NNID
Sharifi_shuffle
#8
I think DK's recovery is fine btw. People were just used to DK's recovery being mostly free (to recover to ledge) in sm4sh (which is why his ledge options were so damn horrible in sm4sh especially early on). In this game (but even in sm4sh) you have to use up b to recover to stage, but you have to know precisely when to use it. I recover all the time and I'm the type that camps by the ledge at times.

Those asking for ASK buffs were the type that don't like the idea of having to recover on stage. Yes, he lags when recovering on stage but that goes back to knowing exactly when to do it. I almost never have issues with people punishing it beyond lucina being a little bothersome with her sword (Bair) covering too much space either high or low.

GSK on the other hand...needs buffed. Too much endlag.

Having not played ultimate too much, I can see DK as a high tier. He has an excellent FSmash btw, it's better in this game given the dynamics of the new game than it was in sm4sh. I also think he's inconsistent as someone said above, to be a top tier. DK can do well against any character, you just have to know the matchup. I'm not sure if he has any particular matchup in ultimate as bad as the Rosa one in sm4sh for example, but he's inconsistent no matter which character you're playing against. And I only call DK inconsistent because the game is so fast that it's impossible to find yourself in the kind of advantage state needed to always win. I think ultimate should probably be a 4 or even a 5 stock game honestly.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 13, 2014
Messages
50
#9
Personally I think Bowser is a better heavy then Dk. Dk just has such a bad disadvantage game. Also there is no chance he is on the same level as say pichu wolf olimar and so on. So when you rank him against other top tiers he falls short. Now maybe in just heavies he is a top teir but not with the whole cast. I will say however I do think he could be a nice secondary character.
 

Haden

If life is so fair, why do roses have thorns?
Premium
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
217
Location
Your moms house.
#10
Personally I think Bowser is a better heavy then Dk. Dk just has such a bad disadvantage game. Also there is no chance he is on the same level as say pichu wolf olimar and so on. So when you rank him against other top tiers he falls short. Now maybe in just heavies he is a top teir but not with the whole cast. I will say however I do think he could be a nice secondary character.
Bowser also has a bad disadvantage game. Don't even say "b-b-b-but downair" because I bait those like fish. DK has 2 things Bowser doesn't which propel him further in the game than Bowser himself can reach.
-1: DK can actually edge guard far offstage with backairs reliably, Bowser cannot.
-2: DK not only has grab combos and kill confirms from grab, but a walking grab that can use throws off stage.

DK also has pretty much everything Bowser has in the form of Armor and Kill Power on top of having those 2 extra advantages. The only thing Bowser has over DK is a slightly faster ground speed. DK has combos, Bowser has 1-2 confirms. We also cannot forget that Bowser in general just isn't safe on shield. In fact, pretty much all of his attacks are negative on shield.
 
Last edited:

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#11
Bowser also has a bad disadvantage game. Don't even say "b-b-b-but downair" because I bait those like fish. DK has 2 things Bowser doesn't which propel him further in the game than Bowser himself can reach.
-1: DK can actually edge guard far offstage with backairs reliably, Bowser cannot.
-2: DK not only has grab combos and kill confirms from grab, but a walking grab that can use throws off stage.

DK also has pretty much everything Bowser has in the form of Armor and Kill Power on top of having those 2 extra advantages. The only thing Bowser has over DK is a slightly faster ground speed. DK has combos, Bowser has 1-2 confirms. We also cannot forget that Bowser in general just isn't safe on shield. In fact, pretty much all of his attacks are negative on shield.
Bowser also does have a fair bit of kill power more than DK but DK’s kill power is still amazing DK is probably the best heavy in the game still
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,931
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
#12
Bowser also does have a fair bit of kill power more than DK but DK’s kill power is still amazing DK is probably the best heavy in the game still
Bowser's kill options are way slower than DK's, less versatile and have less reach. He does have more options to break shield however. But overall I say DK is way better.
 

Haden

If life is so fair, why do roses have thorns?
Premium
Joined
Aug 8, 2014
Messages
217
Location
Your moms house.
#13
Bowser also does have a fair bit of kill power more than DK but DK’s kill power is still amazing DK is probably the best heavy in the game still
That slight advantage in strength doesn't really matter when DK can kill you at 0 with a consistent player doing kill setups consistently.
 

Ginsai

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
115
Location
California, United States.
Switch FC
SW-8248-1982-9689
#15
DK is definitely the best of the heavies, great range, armor on most his special moves greats aerials, a kill confirm(down b in the air to up smash) though he isn’t top tier. While he has good tools he is helpless with his huge hitbox and can be combo food for actual top tiers like Pichu or Peach. To further the cause that he isn’t top tier is his extremely punishable recovery nothing is protecting him from above making it easy to spike him. I’d put him at B Tier.
 

Wiziliz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
446
#16
Not the best heavy, and it's easy to screw up his recovery (especially with an easy counter), but Jesus, he's the heavy I certainly struggle against the most when I'm without a counter. That grab and throw is incredibly annoying, and his range is really good. Donkey Kong is a really good swordfighter.
 

Ginsai

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
115
Location
California, United States.
Switch FC
SW-8248-1982-9689
#17
Not the best heavy, and it's easy to screw up his recovery (especially with an easy counter), but Jesus, he's the heavy I certainly struggle against the most when I'm without a counter. That grab and throw is incredibly annoying, and his range is really good. Donkey Kong is a really good swordfighter.
Who is a better Heavy than DK?
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#20
Ganondorf.

Bowser's easier, not better.
While I would agree about ganondorf, he has even worse mobility which leads him to being screwed by projectiles even easier than DK. Also unlike DK his limbs do not have intangibility, and his recovery/disadvantage/juggle/combo game is much worse with slower frame data and less range, DK is good because he's fast despite being a heavy and despite having good kill power, he still has great combos and utility, ganon just hits things really hard and lets fear do the rest.
 

Wiziliz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
446
#21
While I would agree about ganondorf, he has even worse mobility which leads him to being screwed by projectiles even easier than DK. Also unlike DK his limbs do not have intangibility, and his recovery/disadvantage/juggle/combo game is much worse with slower frame data and less range, DK is good because he's fast despite being a heavy and despite having good kill power, he still has great combos and utility, ganon just hits things really hard and lets fear do the rest.
Ganondorf gets in the heads of opponents better than anyone. I find that despite being slower, he makes up for it by being less huge. And while he doesn't run fast, he's got some really fast attacks that are very reliable, his neutral air is great. Obviously he's not better in every department, but all around, I'd say Ganondorf is probably the best heavy.
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#22
Ganondorf gets in the heads of opponents better than anyone. I find that despite being slower, he makes up for it by being less huge. And while he doesn't run fast, he's got some really fast attacks that are very reliable, his neutral air is great. Obviously he's not better in every department, but all around, I'd say Ganondorf is probably the best heavy.
To each his own
 

Wiziliz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
446
#25
I don't know why I always imagine Snake is heavier than the other heavyweights, he just feels like a super heavyweight for some reason.
If we're including heavyweights alongside super heavyweights though, of course Wario's one of the best this time. He's incredible in this game, which is great.
Wario's way better a character than Donkey Kong, Bowser, Ganondorf, etc..
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#26
I don't know why I always imagine Snake is heavier than the other heavyweights, he just feels like a super heavyweight for some reason.
If we're including heavyweights alongside super heavyweights though, of course Wario's one of the best this time. He's incredible in this game, which is great.
Wario's way better a character than Donkey Kong, Bowser, Ganondorf, etc..
You're probably imagining snake as superheavyweight cause he was in brawl
 

Wiziliz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
446
#27
You're probably imagining snake as superheavyweight cause he was in brawl
Ah, right. Yeah, he's always been one in my mind, so I always lump him together with the rest of the super heavyweights. Thank you.
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#28
Ah, right. Yeah, he's always been one in my mind, so I always lump him together with the rest of the super heavyweights. Thank you.
Well with those projectiles and that recovery it can be safe to say he’s a super heavy...
 

Felancius

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
53
#29
I think DK might become top tier with 3.0 due to indirect buffs, mostly with how projectiles against shields were nerfed which gave DK a huge boon against his usual counterpicks such as Palutena. Also, the bigger Neutral B hitbox also is gonna do a LOT.
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#30
Naw his disadvantage is still a massive pain, the character also can't escape juggles at all, those are his two biggest problems rn especially with character like Olimar/wolf/ROB who can just troll him all day and all night.
 
Last edited:

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,931
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
#31
If Konga is ever coming back, we could see DK rise up to High Tier for sure. I don't think he's much worse than the likes of R.O.B., Marth, Wario or Yoshi personally.
 

Wiziliz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
446
#32
If Konga is ever coming back, we could see DK rise up to High Tier for sure. I don't think he's much worse than the likes of R.O.B., Marth, Wario or Yoshi personally.
R.O.B.'s one of my least favourites to fight, he's big but he's got such annoying moves to get around. Yoshi is super good but also a really fun opponent, they're a good challenge. Wario's great but I know him too well for him to be too scary, and Marth is not worth comparing to the bunch.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,931
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
#33
R.O.B.'s one of my least favourites to fight, he's big but he's got such annoying moves to get around. Yoshi is super good but also a really fun opponent, they're a good challenge. Wario's great but I know him too well for him to be too scary, and Marth is not worth comparing to the bunch.
I was saying that DK is about as good as these characters. Not how he fares against them.
 
Top