Perfect Pm Characters

[MagnesD3]

List what character's you think need no more changes in PM and are perfectly designed.


Imo these guys are perfect.

Metaknight
Link
Wolf
Mario
Wario
Sonic
Mewtwo
Ivysaur
Pit
Ike
Lucas
Snake
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus

 

[DrinkingFood]

AHAHAHAHAHA/10

 

[MagnesD3]

AHAHAHAHAHA/10

What? If you have a different opinion why dont you list it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

So this is an opinion thread?
sounds worthless to me
seems like you made a thread just so you can make a thread

Link is definitely not perfectly designed, he's too centralized on 'rang. I do not think ROB is, either; I don't think anybody has gotten good enough to exploit them well enough, but he has a huge number of silly flaws. M2 seems to me like a character ripe for some adjustments, although what in particular I have no clue. I'd also say MK will see changes if any good MK players become prominent at big events. I feel the same is true of Diddy, I'm convinced he's sleeper god-tier; mobility of the best, combo game of the best, recovery of the best, incredible stage control and harassment game, very solid moveset in general, having items at his disposals is amazing even for edgeguarding option-coverage, the list goes on. But I don't know of any really good Diddy players, nor if they have gone to any big events. But I'd bet that once they did, the potential silliness that is Diddy will manifest.

 

[MagnesD3]

So this is an opinion thread?
sounds worthless to me
seems like you made a thread just so you can make a thread

Link is definitely not perfectly designed, he's too centralized on 'rang. I do not think ROB is, either; I don't think anybody has gotten good enough to exploit them well enough, but he has a huge number of silly flaws. M2 seems to me like a character ripe for some adjustments, although what in particular I have no clue. I'd also say MK will see changes if any good MK players become prominent at big events. I feel the same is true of Diddy, I'm convinced he's sleeper god-tier; mobility of the best, combo game of the best, recovery of the best, incredible stage control and harassment game, very solid moveset in general, having items at his disposals is amazing even for edgeguarding option-coverage, the list goes on. But I don't know of any really good Diddy players, nor if they have gone to any big events. But I'd bet that once they did, the potential silliness that is Diddy will manifest.

Well thank goodness you dont get to decide what is worthless and whats not.... Im just wanting to see what the general consensus is on what characters dont really need any changes, you dont have to be a **** about it.

All the characters ive listed seem to be as good as they need to be for the final build imo. I could be wrong on R.O.B. as I wont claim to know a ton about him Ive just seen JCeasar put in work

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Ike never needs an adjustment again quite frankly.

 

[Soft Serve]

Diddy has some silly things considering how good he is onstage. While he lacks ANY disjoints other than rapidjab/under 100 ledge attack/ knuckles on ftilt, his onstage game and his punish game is pretty bananas. His recovery is really large although it has nothing covering his body. Any falling sex-kick his him out of it, and he can't clank with any projectile. People make a huge deal about it but really when you fully charge up-b, you net about the same distance as a fox-up. what makes it stupid isn't the distance but the flexibility it provides. Its not quite spacie or M2 or MK flexibility, but he has a lot of options. I could see The distance getting toned down slightly and the massive window to grab the ledge after the apex of the up-b getting shortened.

Most of the characters in the game could stand to have some of their silly aspects being toned down. the problem is its still a babby game and knowing what exactly makes a character silly isn't completely apparent yet. Fireballs/Boomerangs are strong and annoying and all, but I get more frustrated by the fact they get 100% free follow ups off of their down throws. Most characters have DI mixups on throws, but the ones that get guarenteed things also happen to be the ones that get the most complaints about other aspects of their games (Not spacies, they don't have guarenteed things off of throws).

The fact that Olimar's grab can still get you when you spot dodge is frustrating too. Spot dodges are generally used for avoiding grabs on prediction in the first place so it really bothers me that tethers like olimar and LUCAS's TURNAROUND GRAB (its active for like 15 frames or something) completely ignore that general trend.

Not saying that they are too good, but they have some silly things that they dont need.

 

[The_NZA]

Everyone seems in a perfectly good place with the exception of maybe:
1. Olimar
2. Ness
3. Zelda
4. Kirby (this one is a big maybe)
5. Jigglypuff (another maybe)

 

[MagnesD3]

Ike never needs an adjustment again quite frankly.

Yeah I kinda forgot about him so will fix.

 

[arcticfox8]

Ike is really perfect.
All of the Melee top tiers, too
Wolf, Diddy, Squirtle, and MK need little to no tweaks as they are.

 

[TreK]

Ivysaur suuucks
Please buff.

No she's not my main idk what you're talking about.


Srsly though. I feel like the Melee top tiers are really badly designed in comparison to the rest. They pretty much all have CGs and most of them have 4-5 extremely good, would-get-nerfed-on-anybody-else moves and 20 garbage ones. I know this game is called Project M and all, but... Yeah, you get my point I'm sure.

 

[Juushichi]

I don't think any character in this game is perfect, but in terms of designs that I think are very well done and are currently executed pretty well:

Snake
Zero Suit Samus (for the most part)
Wario
Wolf (for the most part)
Toon Link

 

[The_NZA]

Ivysaur suuucks
Please buff.

No she's not my main idk what you're talking about.


Srsly though. I feel like the Melee top tiers are really badly designed in comparison to the rest. They pretty much all have CGs and most of them have 4-5 extremely good, would-get-nerfed-on-anybody-else moves and 20 garbage ones. I know this game is called Project M and all, but... Yeah, you get my point I'm sure.

I'm sorry but what are you talking about? The non-melee mains have WAY more chaingrabs than the melee mains. Out of the melee 8, its pretty much Marth...and....???

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Shook no longer has chaingrabs, Icies have grab combos and desyncs but no infinites anymore, Falcon doesn't, Ganon's not a top 8, Jiggs and the Spacies never did ... yeah it's just Marth and Peach on fastfallers.

 

[TreK]

Brain fart, the new guys do have a lot more CGs now that I think about it.
Going back to sleep -_-

 

[Scuba Steve]

Everyone seems in a perfectly good place with the exception of maybe:
1. Olimar
2. Ness
3. Zelda
4. Kirby (this one is a big maybe)
5. Jigglypuff (another maybe)

Yeah, Ness needs a nerf. He's obviously top tier now. M2K said it himself. /s

 

[Giygacoal]

Snake
Lucas
Donkey Kong
Marth
Peach (unless crouch canceling is slightly nerfed, which I approve)
Pit
Meta Knight
Wario
Toon Link
Ike
Sheik
Mewtwo

 

[1FD]

Diddy has some silly things considering how good he is onstage. While he lacks ANY disjoints other than rapidjab/under 100 ledge attack/ knuckles on ftilt, his onstage game and his punish game is pretty bananas. His recovery is really large although it has nothing covering his body. Any falling sex-kick his him out of it, and he can't clank with any projectile. People make a huge deal about it but really when you fully charge up-b, you net about the same distance as a fox-up. what makes it stupid isn't the distance but the flexibility it provides. Its not quite spacie or M2 or MK flexibility, but he has a lot of options. I could see The distance getting toned down slightly and the massive window to grab the ledge after the apex of the up-b getting shortened.

Most of the characters in the game could stand to have some of their silly aspects being toned down. the problem is its still a babby game and knowing what exactly makes a character silly isn't completely apparent yet. Fireballs/Boomerangs are strong and annoying and all, but I get more frustrated by the fact they get 100% free follow ups off of their down throws. Most characters have DI mixups on throws, but the ones that get guarenteed things also happen to be the ones that get the most complaints about other aspects of their games (Not spacies, they don't have guarenteed things off of throws).

The fact that Olimar's grab can still get you when you spot dodge is frustrating too. Spot dodges are generally used for avoiding grabs on prediction in the first place so it really bothers me that tethers like olimar and LUCAS's TURNAROUND GRAB (its active for like 15 frames or something) completely ignore that general trend.

Not saying that they are too good, but they have some silly things that they dont need.

How about that Samus Melee going through dodges too! It got removed!
saddays indeed giving it to lucas and oli but not her
saddays at her grab range too

Diddy was a beast before 3.0PM and the adjustments just made him more beast and so good. Nothing changed in his gameplan or combos, they just do more (TRIP!)

 

[The_NZA]

Yeah, Ness needs a nerf. He's obviously top tier now. M2K said it himself. /s

I've gone over this extensively, but Ness desperately needs a weaker pkfire and much better mobility options in order for him to deal with his hardest matchups, and to in general, make his play style less brainless.

 

[Daftatt]

Perfectly designed characters huh? Ignoring that every PMBR member even has differing opinions on this.

Wolf
Marth
Kirby

... Honestly that's it in my opinion. I would love to say squirtle because I've put so much time into him and mastered all his tech, but he's not perfect. A crouch cancel nerf would shake up everyone as far as balance goes though.

 

[1FD]

I don't think any character in this game is perfect

With this all the way ya

 

[MLGF]

The best designed characters are the ones I main.

 

[Burnsy]

Shook no longer has chaingrabs, Icies have grab combos and desyncs but no infinites anymore, Falcon doesn't, Ganon's not a top 8, Jiggs and the Spacies never did ... yeah it's just Marth and Peach on fastfallers.

IC's no longer have infinites? But what about that Project M exclusive infinite they have?

 

[foxygrandpa]

all the characters with stupidly over-centralizing strategies need tweaks

Looking at snakes chain grab and zelda being downright annoying.

 

[Osennecho]

IC's no longer have infinites? But what about that Project M exclusive infinite they have?

The only one I know of remotely recently got patched in the update after it was found.

 

[Scuba Steve]

all the characters with stupidly over-centralizing strategies need tweaks

Looking at snakes chain grab and zelda being downright annoying.

I disagree on Zelda needing too many changes. I really do feel like people just don't know the match-up that well yet and do stupid stuff against her because you have to play against her in a different way than people are accustomed to.

Chaingrabs that can go to around 70% on some characters are ****ing silly, though.

 

[skstylez]

Honestly, I thought this was a tier list in disguise. Even with the lack of melee chars

 

[Daftatt]

Honestly, I thought this was a tier list in disguise. Even with the lack of melee chars

It's turning that direction. As far as a purist discussion of design I would like to call out @ Shadic , he is always pretty opinionated on the finer points of a characters design (being a PMBR lead). He has made some great points on squirtle, I'm sure he could add to this discussion if he isn't feeling lazy.

 

[PastLink]

The great god of alakadoof requires the sacrifice of a virgin player to appease him before appearing.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'm about to starve to death, will that do it?

 

[Shadic]

I think there's a fair share of characters that have design issues, in varying degrees of severity. Some characters can tweak how the game is played to a crazy degree, and others can turn the game incredibly dull if played to their "maximum potential."

That's just me, though.

 

[foxygrandpa]

snake and ivysaur are just ridiculously repetitive.
No character should have a chain grab into a spike, a C4, and make heavy characters useless to 70 percent its just ridiculous. It's worse than melee sheik's grab, and that was taken away for making characters unviable.
What's with ivy's upthrow into upb? Its such a braindead combo, with insanely high reward and little risk.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I think there's a fair share of characters that have design issues, in varying degrees of severity. Some characters can tweak how the game is played to a crazy degree, and others can turn the game incredibly dull if played to their "maximum potential."

That's just me, though.

Could we hear any specifics or is that information classified?