Percentages to Chaingrabbing with Fox

[JFox]

Fox can Chaingrab three characters, those three characters are the three fast fallers. Fox, Falco, and Falcon. Here are the percentages.

Fox can ONLY chaingrab/combo with the Uthrow. Also, these percentages are the ones you grab at, not the percentages from your throw.

(Note: "~" means roughly. I'll try to find out more exact percentages later.)

Fox-
0-65%.

Fox chaingrab on Fox starts at 0%. If the opponent stops DI'ing, he can jump out after 65%. If he doesn't stop DI'ing, he can't jump out until ~100%.

The Utilt can combo til 125% when the opponent doesn't DI.
The Usmash can combo (with the upward hit, not the tip) until ~80% if the opponent doesn't DI.
The Usmash can combo (with the upward hit, not the tip) until 115% if the opponent full DIs.



Falco-
0-75

Fox chaingrab on Falco starts at 0%. If the opponent stops DI'ing, he can jump out after 75%. If he doesn't stop DI'ing, he can't jump out until ~110%.

The Utilt can combo til 140% if the opponent doesn't DI.
The Usmash can combo (with the upward hit, not the tip) until 90% if the opponent doesn't DI.
The Usmash can combo (with the upward hit, not the tip) until 125% if the opponent full DIs.


Falcon-
20-40

Fox's changrab on Falcon is the most complicated. At 0-20 you can CG him only if he doesn't DI. After 20% you can CG him even if he does DI. After 40%, if the opponent stops DI'ing, he will be able to jump out before the regrab. If he doesn't stop DI'ing, he can jump out at 60% before the regrab.

Utilt with no DI can combo until 80%.
Usmash can combo until ~50% if the opponent doesn't DI.
Usmash can combo until 70% if the opponent full DIs.

All of the chaingrab percentages are correct. The Utilt and Usmash work is rough, and I will try to correct them.

 

[Oskurito]

Well done, but I think most people don't care about percentages when it comes to chaingrabbing specially when you can always start it at 0% and if you ever miss your JC grab you can always tech chase.

Never heard of CG against Falcon I always used this "combo" when grabbing:

Upthrow>uptilt>jab>regrab

 

[doyoung2win]

yay gj

 

[JFox]

yay gj

I know all the percentages! lol

(inside joke)

 

[halfDemon]

It's not much of a guide, more a list of percentages, but good job getting the percentages none the less. It is still useful, just not a guide.

 

[Goldkirby]

Hey JFox, by stop DIing for the person to jump out, does this also include DIing upwards?

Also, with chaingrabbing falco, do you have to grab earlier then what you would with a cg on fox? I'm having trouble chain-grabbing my friend's falco, since he always manages to tech out, which leads me to believe I am not grabbing soon enough.

Thank you for making this thread, it's definitely helpful.

 

[shadydentist]

If I remember correctly, falco falls faster than fox.

So yes?

Also: as for the Upthrow>uptilt>jab>regrab combo against falcon, he can get out of it easily if he expects the jab. Well, at lower percents anyways.

 

[halfDemon]

Hey JFox, by stop DIing for the person to jump out, does this also include DIing upwards?

Also, with chaingrabbing falco, do you have to grab earlier then what you would with a cg on fox? I'm having trouble chain-grabbing my friend's falco, since he always manages to tech out, which leads me to believe I am not grabbing soon enough.

Thank you for making this thread, it's definitely helpful.

Yes because Falco is the fastest faller in the game, then Fox, then Falcon.

 

[Oskurito]

If I remember correctly, falco falls faster than fox.

So yes?

Also: as for the Upthrow>uptilt>jab>regrab combo against falcon, he can get out of it easily if he expects the jab. Well, at lower percents anyways.

Of course he can get out it's just a silly combo. Falco falls faster than fox yeah but fox has faster acceleration speed and since it's a very short distance when someone is CG'ing you I think fox will fall faster than falco in this case(he will reach the ground before falco does)

 

[knightpraetor]

so these % may be right..but i'm kinda not sure if i should use them

You say that you can chaingrab until these di's before the opponent can jump out. The thing is..jumping out takes time and you can grab them out of the jump animation..what am i supposed to do if they shine instead? if i remember right they can start shining at 30 or 40%..so usually i start uptilt to regrab around there if they don'd di and try for a shine..i've also heard that it's possible to pivot grab them and not get regrabbed..but that doesn't make sense to me. i mean even if you run out and back in they can still time the shine to hit your outstretched arm i would think.

Anyways, clarification would be nice

 

[SCOTU]

Yeah, falco can shine out at 32~34%, fox i'm not sure about, but i thought is was 54~56% (with no DI for either), but then the uptilt kicks in and utilt>nair/usmash/regrab works.

 

[JFox]

I don't really know any frame data, especially not for the amount of frames it takes for Fox to double jump. I know double jumps take longer than the initial jump off the ground, which means the double jump probably only takes two frames, and the shine only takes one. So yeah, I'm really not to worried about that.

Also, how can u be sure that the shine isn't just hitting because the opponent is just grabbing to early?

I've never been shined out of a chaingrab, so I really don't worry about it. Besides, its hard to perform and its not like anyone really seems to know about these percentages.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

iirc double jumps are instantaneous

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

Alright! Thanks for the info Jfox.

 

[JFox]

iirc double jumps are instantaneous

Well nothing is "instantaneous", but yeah, I think the double jump only has one frame of lag before it, just like the shine. So I don't see much of a reason no to try to jump out.

If someone with expert frame data wants to double check that for me, that'd be great.

I feel this thread has essential info to all Fox players. I mean, how many of you knew that you can CG falco from 0-75%? Not most of you I'm sure. And I know the majority of us didn't know that you can Utilt Falco from an uthrow until 140%! Thats nuts right there.

Now if only it were me, and not Sinz that made the thread "Guides to the Laser Fox", I'd be able to add this helpful little tidbit. I'll do what I can to get in contact with him...

 

[tarheeljks]

if i remember right they can start shining at 30 or 40%

this is true

 

[JFox]

this is true

This is NOT true. You CANT shine out of this chaingrab until after the percentages listed. If someone can do this, PLEASE explain how. Its not possible.

My friend's Falco and Fox always try to get out, every DI, using the shine and jumps. Never works before those percents.

I want proof. Youtube it.

 

[halfDemon]

JFox speaks the truth as far as I know. If someone can disprove this, an explanation would be appreciated.

 

[SCOTU]

Alright, check it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEwqbKNFZSs
chillin shines out of ken's chainthrow at 56% w/ di i'm pretty sure it can be done @ 32% w/o di.

 

[JFox]

Ken missed his JC Grab. Notice how two throws before he almost fails to regrab for the same reason, because he misses the JC grab. You can tell that because you notice how Fox takes a long stride while doing a running grab, whereas JC grab he just slides into a standing grab. Ken just probably wasn't very used to the JC grab timing on Fox since he plays a character with slightly more jump frames, so he had a couple of sloppy CGs.

So no. Ya can't shine at 56% when you DI. If you want, you can try this yourself with a friend and try to escape. If you find a way, let us no. Until then, I'm gonna have to deny that assertion.

 

[halfDemon]

Missed the JC.

 

[Oskurito]

And falco can DI and shine out of the up throw at?

 

[JFox]

....oskurito those are all the percentages that falco, fox, and falcon can get out of the uthrow cg. to my knowledge, their is no jump lag on a double jump, so there should be no difference between jumping out and shining out. I hope that answered your question.

 

[Oskurito]

Ah... Ok buddy, 10x

 

[CWolf20]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry0wSgOLkbo

38 seconds in. Also 1:38 in.

 

[Mew2King]

Jfox, this list is bad, use my list, these approximations I have are much more accurate.

Fox ditto CG - 0-50 no DI, 0-75/80 full DI, if they stop DIing past 50 then up tilt

Fox vs Falco CG - 0-55 no DI, 0-80 full DI, if they stop DIing past 55 then up tilt

Fox vs Falcon I don't know as well but I do use it.

Also note that if they don't DI you can either do the up tilt earlier into regrab and they can't do anything about it if they are at low enough %, if ur not sure if they are at low enough % or not you can do another up tilt into full jump bair, or quick shuffle uair 1st hit only into another up tilt, or you can pivot grab and that makes the hitbox better for you if they don't DI than a normal standing grab would be.

Anyway sorry JFox but my list is much more accurate than yours and I use this in tourney to get 0-deaths or 0-really high %

 

[JFox]

M2k, I'm pretty sure that you can go all the way to those percentages if you pivot CG. I've tested these percentages out quite a bit, and I'm pretty sure they are right so long as you pivot grab after the percentages you said.

I'll try it out next bi-weekly I see you at.

 

[technomancer]

So basically if we don't DI we get upsmashed to F, and if not we get chaingrabbed to F?

That's gayz.

 

[JFox]

Not really...its just on one stage, and its hard to go 0-death.

 

[SCOTU]

Not really...its just on one stage, and its hard to go 0-death.

Mew2King goes 0-death, and i'd use his list of %'s anyday (they're the ones i'm familiar with), (although i think your falcon %'s are correct)

 

[JFox]

You can DI out of the 0-deaths if you know what you are doing.

 

[halfDemon]

Mew2King goes 0-death, and i'd use his list of %'s anyday (they're the ones i'm familiar with), (although i think your falcon %'s are correct)

M2K is M2K. Just because he can 0-death, doesn't mean everyone can. 0-death is extremely difficult, and for the most part requires the opponent to screw up DI.

 

[Oskurito]

0-to death CG combos are pretty hard to pull off, especially when you're playing against someone who has pretty good DI and unpredictability as well, but is definitely not impossible to do.

And yeah M2K is M2K ...

 

[SCOTU]

which way does one DI to escape a 0-death?

 

[halfDemon]

Away for the most part. Mixing it up helps. And no DI can end the chain abruptly, but it will cause painful USmashes.

 

[SCOTU]

Thanks. Oh yeah, @least 10 character length. right.

 

[tarheeljks]

bump, what was the verdict on shining out w/falco?

 

[SCOTU]

Jfox, this list is bad, use my list, these approximations I have are much more accurate.

Fox ditto CG - 0-50 no DI, 0-75/80 full DI, if they stop DIing past 50 then up tilt

Fox vs Falco CG - 0-55 no DI, 0-80 full DI, if they stop DIing past 55 then up tilt

Fox vs Falcon I don't know as well but I do use it.

Also note that if they don't DI you can either do the up tilt earlier into regrab and they can't do anything about it if they are at low enough %, if ur not sure if they are at low enough % or not you can do another up tilt into full jump bair, or quick shuffle uair 1st hit only into another up tilt, or you can pivot grab and that makes the hitbox better for you if they don't DI than a normal standing grab would be.

Anyway sorry JFox but my list is much more accurate than yours and I use this in tourney to get 0-deaths or 0-really high %

This. This is the verdict. M2K is the master of Chaingrabs, and is not to be questioned on this topic.

While this topic is bumped, what i want to know is what %s fox can be chainthrown from-to by other characters.

 

[knightpraetor]

i want someone to explain to me why pivot grabs supposedly can avoid shines..i've always wondered how that works. can't the shine just be timed to hit at a particular percentage? and at 30-50 do you pivot m2k to avoid the shine? or are people just unable to time it

 

[SCOTU]

Yeah, i've noticed that pivoting does make CGs go longer, but i also don't understand why.