people dont realize how good zelda is ..

[Rikimaru_soul_9]

I think zelda is a very good character even with her better side sheik the reason people dont use her alot is because THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO anybody who thinks this is true post here zelda is in fact a good character .....shes one of my best people along with falco.

 

[Winston]

Sorry dude, but at this point in the game (it's been 6 years) every character, even the garbage ones, has had their metagame pushed very far.

Zelda certainly has some good things, but she's bad in the sense that many other chars are better. xP Also, sheik is undeniably better.

 

[Zone]

I agree, Zelda has way more potential than they give her. I've had Peach players who knew how to play peach well, Ganons and even some falcos that were baffled a bit that they either lost, or almost lost to my Zelda. (Almost cuz Falco's still pwn me, Just wait til I completely master power shielding)

It's really all about the player,

Have you seen BUM(DK) vs Isai(Captain Falcon) ?

With a tier list set in your face. you may be right, Fox, Falco, Marth, Peach so on and so forth may be the best characters, but with the mindset like Gustav Wind, People don't pick low tiers or mid tiers as much like Mario and Zelda, because they think it's a waste of time. So, tier list is there. But, the true full potential of the lower characters, aren't all there because anyone competitive already has the mindset that it's best to just start learning a high tier.
I played Marth for a very very long time. And I feel more comfortable with Zelda vs any other character and i only played her for like 4 months. I prefer picking Zelda on Yoshi's story vs Falco, than I do Marth. I prefer Marth on Final D vs falco than zelda though >.> Chain grab is just too broken to ignore.

Besides there's nothing better than having a mid-tier that you know how to play a high tier as, and they don't know how to fight you. I've been beat by alot of luigi's as fox, because I don't know how to F'ing combo his sliding anus. once he's over the edge though I can kill a Luigi, but same goes for me.

It's the player that can unlock a character's potential to show how *bad* or *good* they really are. Tier list does play a role, but it's no where near as huge as the individual.

I mean doesn't ChuDat play Pichu and pikachu and rocks high tier socks?

GAWes said he chose fox vs Chad's pikachu because the pikachu was kicking his CPT falcon butt.

Individual > Tier list.
If you look at the tier list like it's a set of rules,
Characters like DK and Zelda and LInk won't get to shine.
There are a few select who chose to let them shine and they can/could win pretty big tournaments.

Just incase you try and throw the tier list at me as a counter, I know it exists fo ra reason, and it's true, many of the lower tiers have more potential than good players are willing to try for.

Who woulda thought you could combo with Yoshi like FUmi?
Who woulda thought you could combo with Link like GERM?
Who woulda thought you could combo with Pichu like ChuDat?
Who woulda thought you could pwn faces with Zelda like UmbreonMow has been?

Someone chose to search what they could do, and they rocked socks.

that's my opinion anyways.

 

[pikachun00b7]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110083

End thread.

 

[technomancer]

Zelda is super-underrated. Also Fox and Falco **** Zelda.

 

[Zone]

Of course space animals can **** anyone >.>;, but yea Fox --> Infinite Zelda.

I don't think FAlco is so bad. I'm very close to mastering powershield. We'll see how bad it is after that.

*stops posting*

 

[DH_Ninja]

I think that the tier list is over rated also that zelda is underrated. Heres an example, At smashtality 3, in a fun match, my friend used fox against a shiek and he lost by two stock i think. Then i played the same sheik on the same stage with my zelda and won. Its more about the individual. *im willing to debate.*

 

[Zone]

I think that the tier list is over rated also that zelda is underrated. Heres an example, At smashtality 3, in a fun match, my friend used fox against a shiek and he lost by two stock i think. Then i played the same sheik on the same stage with my zelda and won. Its more about the individual. *im willing to debate.*

Word ^^d

Individual > Tier List

Tier list does hold some merit though, but like you said the Individual far outweighs the tier list. IMO

 

[simplicityho]

It is also because a Fox does not expect much from a Zelda, and thus, lets his guard down.
Especially if the tier list is ingrained into him.

 

[HideousBeing]

It is also because a Fox does not expect much from a Zelda, and thus, lets his guard down.
Especially if the tier list is ingrained into him.

Not really. It's more that he doesn't know what to expect from a seldom used character. When I play Zelda in tournaments, I can see the CF, spacies, Sheik, IC's, Samus, Peach, Marth, and Jiggz players testing me. The pulsewalk often and DD often, and generaly try to get me to act to see what I am capable of and how Zelda works. Zelda is NOT common competition. Though I hate to admit it, but that is the primary reason for any success in the low tiers. No one knows what to expect from them. Everyone (who's anyone) has played Foxes, Falcos, Sheiks and Marths. They know the basic approaches, the comboes that they can do, and the recommended counters. Against lower tiers they don't know this. They just remember bits of advice. "Watch out for Zelda's fair/bair." "Bowser will always counter an L-cancelled arial with JC shield Fortress." "Pikachu's comboes always end with upsmash." "Link's spin attack edgeguard *****." Things like that. I guess that's just one of our benefits though.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Meh.

Big thing to do with a person's place style. Like falcon, hes in the air 99% of the time and zelda's range dominates air game..if the falcon doesn't change his style, he gets hurt..but if he does, the zelda's game is shut down.

Don't say "This character is good, you just don't understand!" crap because you aren't at a level of play to be putting it out there.

Zelda's air game is great against certain characters and people who can't adjust, which is saying basicly, against anyone with a working brain, no, its not going to work well.

Even against ganon, who has alot of trouble due to her air game, he can take her down with abit of thinking and planning.

Even the pros who play her will say shes not that good of a character.

 

[HideousBeing]

Big thing to do with a person's place style. Like falcon, hes in the air 99% of the time and zelda's range dominates air game..if the falcon doesn't change his style, he gets hurt..but if he does, the zelda's game is shut down.

That's true, but zelda needs to be careful to prevent the enemy from getting below her. Zelda is in peril when someone is underneath her- her bottom is very vulnerable in the air. Consequently, she must be very careful when engaging in the air with a FFer. I won't jump up high to meet a Falco, Fox, Sheik, or CF player, because they can FF DIing backwards to avoid, and then shffl something beneath me to punish my slow fall. That's why I tend to mostly SH with Zelda. Zelda is so vulnerable underneath, It's worth it to transform when knocked far upwards to be more capable of a safe return. Of course, people would argue that it's always worth it to transform when Zelda.

Even the pros who play her will say shes not that good of a character.

Hah, of course. It's true. Zelda is horrible. But I still tell myself whenever I lose that the reason I lost is that I need more practice, and that I'm not doing the best I can.

 

[simplicityho]

Also, Zelda's uair, although crap, looks freakin sweet.

 

[flame_overlord]

thank god this thread was started, because people need to understand, Zelda is by FAR greater than Shiek. its just that NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO USE ZELDA!!!! shes my best character and ive become aware that im way better with her than any other of my caracters, inluding SHIEK. people underestimate her because they pray to the teer list every day, but nothings better than the look of shock on your opponents face when you use zelda, DONT transform to shiek, and win. Zelda for the win.

 

[XtreamDarkRyu]

id have to agree with u man. I started playing with Zelda a month ago and shes become one of my best characters, second only to my Fox. my roomate gets so pissed when his CF is destroed by my Zelda and my bro stoped talking to me when i beat his Doc without losing a single stock with Zelda for 4 battles in a row LMAO!! GO ZELDA!!!

 

[Deleted member]

sheik is better than zelda in every way. get over yourselves.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

sheik is better than zelda in every way. get over yourselves.

But, Zelda has the better down b...

 

[DH_Ninja]

sheik is better than zelda in every way. get over yourselves.

So why do you insist upon coming into the zelda forum and zelda bashing.......if anything you should get over yourself, this isn't the sheik forum.

 

[Zone]

So why do you insist upon coming into the zelda forum and zelda bashing.......if anything you should get over yourself, this isn't the sheik forum.

lol he's not really bashing, he's telling the truth lol. but not in EVERY way. Zelda has the better B-air >.>;

 

[DH_Ninja]

you forgot the B move and the down B

 

[Gray]

you forgot the B move and the down B

Needles are definitely better. They can intercept recoveries better, have less start up lag, and can stop projectiles more easily, which makes up for the lack of a reflecting ability.

 

[DH_Ninja]

ok, i'll give you that. *doesn't change the b down thing though XP*

 

[Deleted member]

I never use zelda's down B, I decide which I'll play in the beginning for the most part and hold A if I want sheik.

I really like both zelda and sheik, but if you're a good player it's not hard to see why sheik is absolutely broken whereas zelda is just ok/bad.

 

[Miharu]

So why do you insist upon coming into the zelda forum and zelda bashing.......if anything you should get over yourself, this isn't the sheik forum.

Lol, you don't know who UmbreonMow is... (dammit i need to type faster)

People might lose to Zelda simply because they don't know the matchup, due to the fact that Zelda mains are quite rare. However, the Zelda players will already have a significant amount of experience in said matchup (ie. Fox vs Zelda). At lower levels of play, this "surprise" factor may be enough to hand the Zelda player the win. However, when the respective players get better, the flaws of their respective characters also become more obvious. As it stands, Zelda has way too many weak points against Fox, who has quite an easy time with Zelda (drillshine/waveshine infinites, finishing with uair/usmash). Zelda's light weight doesn't really help her much either.

Someone brought up BUM vs. Isai. That's a bad example for various reasons. BUM's an exeptionally talented DK player, and we all know that Isai's been rumored to not try/be rusty, etc. However, a better comparison would be to use his matches vs. PC Chris and M2K. Even though he did lose to both, he still showed that DK can do well against space animals; but it was already common knowledge that DK has an ok matchup against Fox/Falco because of the various uthrow/uair chains.

id have to agree with u man. I started playing with Zelda a month ago and shes become one of my best characters, second only to my Fox. my roomate gets so pissed when his CF is destroed by my Zelda and my bro stoped talking to me when i beat his Doc without losing a single stock with Zelda for 4 battles in a row LMAO!! GO ZELDA!!!

That's you playing Zelda against people that are (evidently) much worse than you are in general. Try playing Zelda against someone who's around your skill level; you'll find that you will have to work almost twice as hard as he does just to get those toes in, given that he's playing as someone siginificantly higher on the tier list (ie Marth, Sheik, etc.); there's a reason why Zelda's where she is on the tier list.

Against Peach, it's a different story. A few months ago, I played around with Zelda as my secondary for a bit (My Zelda was better than my Sheik, that's why >_>), and it's not too hard to see why she can do decently against Peach. Zelda can outspace Peach with fairs/bairs, and toe kills quite early; that way, she has a way around Peach's aerial priority, which is usually a ***** for most other characters. She also can't be hit out of her upB while she's in the middle of it, which is quite convenient when playing against Peach, as none of Peach's smashes or aerials are particularly strong, with the exception of sweetspotted usmash and fair. That's countered by Zelda's upB making her invisible, so she won't necessarily know where you will end up, leading her to possibly whiff the edgeguard.

Zelda may have some potential, but it's not as much as you think.

 

[Deleted member]

hmm I fight some really good peach players occasionally, they all lead with turnip to a float aerial. Zelda has nothing on turnips in the air, where she can use that one range advantage. It's not a horrible match but that also favors peach over zelda.

 

[DH_Ninja]

I really think has alot to do with player skill more then what characters are vsing each other. *I will agree that some characters have more advantages over each other, some more then others.*

Also Hydro, i don't know who a lot of people are, don't press the issue.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Thank god Umbreon Mow seen this topic and decided to provide abit of his insight as mine and a few others wasn't doing much.

Umbreon is nearly god at sheik and zelda so if he says it, I'd believe it (especially since I play neither as a character, just fight a whole lot of both).

Refer to my previous post before disputing my views to the posters who must rip at me.

 

[Zone]

Someone brought up BUM vs. Isai. That's a bad example for various reasons. BUM's an exeptionally talented DK player, and we all know that Isai's been rumored to not try/be rusty, etc. However, a better comparison would be to use his matches vs. PC Chris and M2K. Even though he did lose to both, he still showed that DK can do well against space animals; but it was already common knowledge that DK has an ok matchup against Fox/Falco because of the various uthrow/uair chains.

Rumored? already a bad example if ur using rumors to state your point of view. I never said tier list means nothing. I just pointed out that Individual > Tier list

That's you playing Zelda against people that are (evidently) much worse than you are in general. Try playing Zelda against someone who's around your skill level; you'll find that you will have to work almost twice as hard as he does just to get those toes in, given that he's playing as someone siginificantly higher on the tier list (ie Marth, Sheik, etc.); there's a reason why Zelda's where she is on the tier list.

Thanks for completely agreeing with me. Individual, If your way better than your opponent, then the tier list doesn't matter. Tier list really only comes to play at high level gameplay, with players of equal skill (In most scenarios). Leaving room open for the unknown

 

[HideousBeing]

hmm I fight some really good peach players occasionally, they all lead with turnip to a float aerial. Zelda has nothing on turnips in the air, where she can use that one range advantage. It's not a horrible match but that also favors peach over zelda.

Can Zelda's kicks deflect turnips? A lot of characters can stop projectiles with their jab- like Sheik. Zelda can't, but can use her dsmash. You better hit it though. Sheik's fair can also knock back some projectiles.

BTW, the only thing that discourages me from playing Sheik is how difficult it is for me to SH with her. Mow, do you use X/Y, or do you actually tap the control stick that light little factor?

 

[BrawlFan24]

r u taht board?

 

[Deleted member]

I do everything with X except fox's SHDL

 

[HideousBeing]

I do everything with X except fox's SHDL

They must all. I guess I'll have to start doing that. Oh, and do you also DJ with X? Just curious there.

 

[Eaode]

I'm sorry, these threads are dumb.

Anyone can be good with any character. That doesn't make the character good. Mewtwo sucks, Taj is amazing.

People are like "individual > Tier list", which is true, but then they **** it up by saying that's why Zelda can be good...? Contradiction? Zelda stil sucks. You can beat people with Zelda? That's great, you're more skilled than them. But Zelda still sucks.

 

[Zone]

I'm sorry, these threads are dumb.

Anyone can be good with any character. That doesn't make the character good. Mewtwo sucks, Taj is amazing.

People are like "individual > Tier list", which is true, but then they **** it up by saying that's why Zelda can be good...? Contradiction? Zelda stil sucks. You can beat people with Zelda? That's great, you're more skilled than them. But Zelda still sucks.

Ok, the point that this was all aobut is that, Zelda can be "Good" Compared to common knowledge. Not Good overall character.

I think the poster was aiming that common knowledge underrates Zelda. She still isn't a great character as you might say, but better than most people think.

 

[the.letter.y]

I don't know about yall people, but I've never really liked tier lists. Ever. So I tend to ignore them and play as whoever the heck I want. And y'know what? I've beaten Marths and Captain Falcons and Foxs and Falcos and all them "good" people as "crappy" characters like Game and Watch and Zelda! Anyway, my point is that the tier list can be overcome and changed and stuff, so we shouldn't treat it so highly. I mean, how good the character is really isn't as important as how good the person who's playing is with that character. If that makes any sense at all >.>

 

[cablepuff]

I don't know about yall people, but I've never really liked tier lists. Ever. So I tend to ignore them and play as whoever the heck I want. And y'know what? I've beaten Marths and Captain Falcons and Foxs and Falcos and all them "good"characters as "crappy" characters like Game and Watch and Zelda! Anyway, my point is that the tier list can be overcome and changed and stuff, so we shouldn't treat it so highly. I mean, how good the character is really isn't as important as how good the person who's playing is with that character. If that makes any sense at all >.>

Fix it for ya.

 

[Zone]

I don't know about yall people, but I've never really liked tier lists. Ever. So I tend to ignore them and play as whoever the heck I want. And y'know what? I've beaten Marths and Captain Falcons and Foxs and Falcos and all them "good" people as "crappy" characters like Game and Watch and Zelda! Anyway, my point is that the tier list can be overcome and changed and stuff, so we shouldn't treat it so highly. I mean, how good the character is really isn't as important as how good the person who's playing is with that character. If that makes any sense at all >.>

Nope it's kinda stuck where it's at. Tier list IS** real. I was just making a point that truly unless you and your opponent are of equal skill then it's Individual > Tier list.

you may have fought good pple. but i know there are way better out there.