Peach's Castle 64?

[MintChipper]

Peach's Castle 64 was confirmed to be future DLC a couple months ago. This stage is still a counter-pick in Smash 64's competitive ruleset (It's picked only 1% of the time though). I don't have Smash 64 so I had to dig up some footage.

Some good footage I found of the stage was Grand Finals of Apex 2014:
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/6457844

Here's the footage from the DLC Smash Direct:
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/6457859

I can't tell if the stage is the same size or not, the shape of the stage reminds me of Lylat Cruise almost. Dream Land and it's ceiling were shrunken but I'm having a hard time seeing if this stage was shrunken at all.

The elephants in the room:

Walls and moving floor: This is my main gripe with this stage being legal, the shape reminds me of Lylat Cruise as mentioned before but it reminds me more of this form of Delfino Plaza

and yeah... that means camping, but then there's the moving floor, which will probably make this a horrible stage for anyone who doesn't have the best recovery (Little Mac, Captain Falcon, etc) so Little Mac vs. Sheik would be even more unwinnable. With all those factors it will be a great stage for Rosalina and Luma, that's what I picked up from it at least.

The bumper and slopes at the top: Like I said before I don't have Smash 64, so I don't know what the triangular slopes at the top do, but they will probably mess up kills though. And I don't know what to say about the bumper besides how it's probably the nail in the coffin for banning this stage.

What do you guys think? I'm currently undecided on it's legality.

 

[Raijinken]

I'm leaning towards no, primarily for the slight position camping (even though it's temporary), and the (presumably) techable diagonal pieces.

Of course, that's if we assume a conservative ruleset. If we go liberal enough to include things as mild as, say, Stadium 2, I think it'd be legal. A lot depends on ledge grabability and how the bumper interacts with things.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm leaning towards no, primarily for the slight position camping (even though it's temporary), and the (presumably) techable diagonal pieces.

Of course, that's if we assume a conservative ruleset. If we go liberal enough to include things as mild as, say, Stadium 2, I think it'd be legal. A lot depends on ledge grabability and how the bumper interacts with things.

IIRC the brief clip we were shown of it revealed you can grab the large moving block thing on the bottom. So that's a point in its favor.

 

[NotLiquid]

As much as I like the stage, that bumper is still fairly disruptive.

 

[Schnizzle Fits]

No. Those ramps are going to be life savers, people will just DI for them. Also the bumper may screw with vertical KOs, Im sure they'll change the bumpers physics so who knows. Besides that if the stage keeps its 64 blast zones it will be the go to stage for Peach/Jiggs

 

[Raijinken]

IIRC the brief clip we were shown of it revealed you can grab the large moving block thing on the bottom. So that's a point in its favor.

Wait, brief clip? Maybe this is because I was without internet for a while, but I haven't seen this. Can I get a link?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Here from the Lucas/Roy/Ryu direct. Watch Peach when they show off Peach's Castle.

 

[Balgorxz]

the bumper is fine IMO but the techable ramps are npt

 

[MintChipper]

Wait, brief clip? Maybe this is because I was without internet for a while, but I haven't seen this. Can I get a link?

It was in the OP.

 

[Mr. Johan]

All the bumper does is disrupt strings and followups that follow an upwards path. Mario, Luigi, Diddy, really most Dthrow -> Uair followups, so playing around that tiny little bumper is just stage knowledge and prowess and can serve as a viable counterpick against those kinds of characters.

The ramps, who can say. Is it possible to tech on inclined slopes like that?

 

[Raijinken]

All the bumper does is disrupt strings and followups that follow an upwards path. Mario, Luigi, Diddy, really most Dthrow -> Uair followups, so playing around that tiny little bumper is just stage knowledge and prowess and can serve as a viable counterpick against those kinds of characters.

The ramps, who can say. Is it possible to tech on inclined slopes like that?

On all other stages, yes. But the stage hasn't existed since 64, so whether the interaction is consistent or not remains to be seen. I don't believe it was techable in 64, though I could be wrong.

 

[Nysyr]

It was counterpick at best in N64 and most of the time it was banned, I'm leaning towards no on this one.

 

[Luigi player]

I really hope it'll be counterpick. But if it doesn't work / is too "random" because of the ramps and bumper, then I guess it shouldn't. Leaning towards yes, but it should just be tried out. I really like the stage and hope it'll be alright, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[EvilPinkamina]

Depending on the blast zones, I'd rather have Peach's Castle than some other stages, like Halberd. Plus Peach's Castle is more dynamic than a lot of the legal stages.

 

[Piford]

I think it could work, but it needs some actual testing for confirmation.

 

[Mizzy Moe]

needs to be out before true decision but if it was up to me it should be legal. it could add a lil more diversity to the list aka the bumper and those ramps cold add for a lil more survivability which i dont find to be a problem personally it could make the game because if you were supposed to die and that saved you it could be a warning of dont let that hit you again and the bumber may add an element of being able to upb twice i dont know how useful that would be but it would be a cool thing to play around with.

but i could ultimately see it being illegal even though it could just get banned

 

[kenniky]

Besides that if the stage keeps its 64 blast zones it will be the go to stage for Peach/Jiggs

Dream Land 64 didn't keep its blast zones, so I'd guess this stage won't either.

On all other stages, yes. But the stage hasn't existed since 64, so whether the interaction is consistent or not remains to be seen. I don't believe it was techable in 64, though I could be wrong.

I believe it was considered a wall in 64, as you couldn't stand on it - therefore it wasn't techable because you could only tech the floor. Although, here, it's a solid surface and it's not a cloud; reasoning would imply that it's techable.

Honestly, I'm not so sure about this stage. The bottom is fine, especially now that you can grab the moving platform, but the ramps and bumpers in the air are going to mess a lot of stuff up.

 

[LabrysXII]

At best, I would say that this stage would be a counterpick. I can see why people would want it banned though. Once the stage is in everyone's hands, we'll see whether or not the stage is decent enough for competitive play. I'm not entirely sure on how the bumpers and ramps are gonna affect how things go down in a match...I might have to look up some more 64 gameplay to get more of an idea.

 

[webbedspace]

Dream Land 64 didn't keep its blast zones, so I'd guess this stage won't either.

There's another 64 stage in this game that may be worth observing.

 

[Tinkerer]

"We'll just have to wait and see" is the only option here. We don't know the changes there will be (and there will be for sure, like DL64 was changed), and that might make things difficult. It's a cool and uniquely designed stage, so here's hoping.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

The moving platform reminds me of Skyworld or pre-patch Lylat Cruise (in other words, getting trapped under the stage is super easy). Recovering on this stage will be hell for every character except Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Villager, and maybe Pikachu, R.O.B., and Lucario.

EDIT: I'm stupid, pls ignore me.

 

[Gibbs]

I like how the dynamics of stage control slowly and predictably oscillate on this stage. It would add something to the game that is in between the more static neutrals and the somewhat annoying transformations of Halberd and Delfino.

 

[Raijinken]

The moving platform reminds me of Skyworld or pre-patch Lylat Cruise (in other words, getting trapped under the stage is super easy). Recovering on this stage will be hell for every character except Jigglypuff, Kirby, Meta Knight, Villager, and maybe Pikachu, R.O.B., and Lucario.

The platform was passthrough in Smash64. I can't remember, did the clip show it as completely solid here?

 

[MintChipper]

The platform was passthrough in Smash64. I can't remember, did the clip show it as completely solid here?

Yes, it showed it's still passthrough.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

The platform was passthrough in Smash64. I can't remember, did the clip show it as completely solid here?

Yes, it showed it's still passthrough.

I'm stupid, pls ignore me.

 

[Das Koopa]

Techable ramps and bumper. Not only that, but I don't like the lack of a large and stable platform that doesn't constantly shift the stage. Definitely a no-go in my opinion, but one of the tamer suggestions. Worth having at a couple of regionals, maybe. If it looks like trash, ban it.

 

[Jiggly]

Dream Land 64 didn't keep its blast zones, so I'd guess this stage won't either.

Dreamland 64 does have the same blastzones. It was Dreamland in Melee that didn't.

 

[Ghostbone]

Dreamland 64 does have the same blastzones. It was Dreamland in Melee that didn't.

Melee dreamland's blastzones are in the same proportions as 64's, it's just that the characters are smaller. (this is obvious as all the 64 stages are ridiculously big with large blastzones)

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I really want it as counter pick, but if those ramps are techable (which they most likely are) it's pretty much a no go imo.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

If it ends up having grabable ledges, then I think it would probably be fair game. In N64 it didn't which sucked kinda, but it's my favorite stage of all time so not a big problem

 

[WritersBlah]

Ehh...I really can't say either way. On one hand, one could make the argument that the bumper would be a good way to counterpick characters with good aerial follow-ups (Diddy, Mario, Mii Brawler, etc.) and the (presumably) large horizontal space will lend itself well to characters with good aerial mobility, but I think the ramps might make survivability a little bit too lopsided. I can see matches here taking forever, which would make time-outs kinda common. Maybe not as bad as say, Kongo Jungle 64, but the intent can definitely still be engendered. I'd run it at some locals to get some empirical evidence (and not to purposefully make the stage look bad, hello Wuhu Island glitch) and use that plus whatever you guys find here to come to a more uniform decision.

tl;dr, I think we'll have to wait and see, but I'm veering on the side of no.

 

[Dagon97]

No, I am not sure if you can stand on the top 2 platforms but it looks like a good place for circle camping and chars like Puff and peach. The bumper looks like it will allow fewer characters to counter circle camping. Those ledges do not look grabbable so idk. We will wait and see.

 

[misterOWAIN33]

I've never played 64, but I played on this stage recently in PM. I want to wait and see the properties of the ramps; I am undecided for now. However, I agree with @ Raijinken in that it would probably be legal in less-conservative rulesets.
'Cuz if we have Peach's Castle and/or PS2, we can have Wuhu Island, right? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Lustful_Kaiser]

This stage is good for a counterpick stage since it have its ups and downs. I am not sure about how the ceiling will be in this stage if they change it or not like Dreamland 64. If it does changes hopefully it isn't too small that it won't be a legal stage, but I doubt it will happen.

 

[jcx]

I don't think this will cut.

For one, you can't grab any ledges, so characters with trash recoveries (Ganon, Mac, etc.) will absolutely suffer on this stage. Even if they add grabbable ledges, there's still the possibility of the bumper preventing vertical KOs, as well as characters with long-distance recoveries to use the bumper to escape pressure. These problems may be the same issues from Smash 64, but they're not going to change during the transition. I know the stage is legal in Smash 64, but there's a reason why it's hardly ever used.

 

[chaos11011]

The ledges can be grabbed, as proven by the the direct that announced the stage. It's on the second link of the OP, @ jcx

As for my opinion on the stage, I think we have to wait and see until it's actually on our Wii Us. As of right now, it can go either way really.

 

[Thor]

Not sure if it should be legal in the Wii U version. I personally love the stage and would play on it in friendlies even if it weren't legal [if I could find someone to agree to that], but we'll have to see.

On the 3DS, given the 3DS's relative lack of good stages, I think 3DS tournaments should definitely test it out.

 

[Dokokashira]

Not sure if it should be legal in the Wii U version. I personally love the stage and would play on it in friendlies even if it weren't legal [if I could find someone to agree to that], but we'll have to see.

I'd play it in friendlies for sure. I play stages like Pilotwings, Windy Hill Zone, and even Onett just because I love their aesthetics. XD

On the 3DS, given the 3DS's relative lack of good stages, I think 3DS tournaments should definitely test it out.

If I'm not mistaken, both Peach's Castle and Hyrule Castle are Wii U exclusives.

 

[MintChipper]

Well we just found out we're getting the stage in 2 days so that's good.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

Won't be long now before we can finally start labbing up on this stage.