Peach Vs. Captain Falcon.

[_Keno_]

I know, Peach is supposedly one of Falcon's counters. But what if the falcon is TOO GOOD?

I just came back from a tournament and was beat out by 2 captain falcons (NES n00b and Iori). Both of them were able to up-air combo me to knee 10-death. Is there a way to DI out? No matter which way I DI-ed i was unable to escape . I played my shield game, edgegame , and chain grabs well, but I they were just too fast and precise. What can I do against Captains? Vids appreciated.


(I found a thread that discussed falcon but it gave no help)

 

[TheLake]

I dont got no vids but...if he grabs you somehow (Down smash and turnips fool!) Then nair in the air...like if your in the air start nairing alot. It beats like everything except his nair, but what sort of falcon nairs over fairs ama right? (Dont take that last comment TOO seriously...heh)

But yeah nair alot.

You got this

 

[KirbyKaze]

peach hasn't countered falcon since 2006.

it's really close.

you have to sort of wait for him to do stuff and then nair him. if he's willing to dash dance camp the entire game and look for grabs and then periodically do a move you can't cc or something then he can be very gay to you.

mostly just nair, fair, and bair a lot. and, of course, if he does something dumb then d-smash. but not so much d-smash otherwise it seems to get kneed and d-aired a lot if you do it too much. if he lands near you after nair or dair or something you can probably just dash attack where he lands, but he'd have to be close so probably not something to try that often (stupid peach and her blistering sped).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwmuo1jd_a4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El6XjKEH1Yk

^ they're old but i can't think of any other peach/falcon sets. i don't think darkrain and vidjo were recorded at pound 3 either so

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

remember that nair and bair can outprioritize pretty much everything falcon has

 

[_Keno_]

you have to sort of wait for him to do stuff and then nair him. if he's willing to dash dance camp the entire game and look for grabs and then periodically do a move you can't cc or something then he can be very gay to you.

mostly just nair, fair, and bair a lot. and, of course, if he does something dumb then d-smash. but not so much d-smash otherwise it seems to get kneed and d-aired a lot if you do it too much. if he lands near you after nair or dair or something you can probably just dash attack where he lands, but he'd have to be close so probably not something to try that often (stupid peach and her blistering sped).

I know many of my aerials out prioritize his, but both never made stupid mistakes and L-canceled perfectly, so I was unable to punish anything. The main problems were his forward throws to knee / grab again and the up air combos. They both spammed nairs and dairs, so I couldnt get a nair in, nor could I time my fairs well enough to hit such a fast character.

Also, I believe one of them beat xif just a week before at a GA tourny and the other is better than this first guy. =0

 

[KirbyKaze]

neither of the people you listed in the op are better than jiano.

if they're being silly and spamming nair/dair (attacks, basically) and trying to hit you with hit then just do what marth does and dash attack where they land. xelic does this a lot and it's ridiculously good. your dash attack has ridiculous priority if they're spamming nair and dair at you then just dash attack right through the nair or if they go above with dair then just dash out of the way and then dash attack where he lands. he has a lot of landing lag from dair, more than most people think, 10+ frames is plenty of time to hit him.

if you're being comboed too much then di away. at low % di AWAY even if they knee because knee --> knee and knee --> grab above 20 shouldn't work.

 

[NES n00b]

neither of the people you listed in the op are better than jiano.

BEYOND SADNESS.

If it means anything I did better against XiF in my set against him than Jiano in those vids (but I am still worse than him overall won't deny that). If that means anything. And Iori is a **** fine Falcon, too (probably better than mine overall). The point is that me and Iori aren't too bad and that maybe we have a different style which that vid might not show how to deal with really. If you could dig up more vids of quality Falcons, maybe Cheap can find something more comparable to help play against Falcon or maybe he needs a Peach who plays more like him (I admit XiF's peach is very unique).

KirbyKaze is right in the fact all I do with Falcon is pretty much wait for Peach to have only certain options before I do anything. lol So I would say bait alot and then wait for me to have to attack so you can just outprioritize me with dash attack or nair. To approach do fast FC fairs or bairs to whatever. I wouldn't suggest floating in the air back and forth too long to do a bair or fair like alot of peach's do (like XiF) cause like I think Falcon has one of the easiest times to counter that.

Seeing those vids of XiF against Jiano, I wonder how the **** I stood a chance against XiF. Seriously he was too good in those vids.

Edit: And yes Iori is better than me. Darn you Cheap lol But also, YAY FOR FIRST TIME BEING MENTIONED IN THE OP OF A THREAD. WOOH ME!

 

[araknophobik]

extremely hard matchup imo
falcons that get ***** just don't know the matchup

i wish i could help but i never figured out how to fight falcon with peach
that's why i have a sheik =]

 

[KirbyKaze]

BEYOND SADNESS.

If it means anything I did better against XiF in my set against him than Jiano in those vids (but I am still worse than him overall won't deny that). If that means anything. And Iori is a **** fine Falcon, too (probably better than mine overall). The point is that me and Iori aren't too bad and that maybe we have a different style which that vid might not show how to deal with really.

I didn't say either of you were bad, I just said Jiano is very good.

You probably did better because Xif's style is very unique and you're probably more used to it. And know how to deal with it.

And this matchup is extremely frustrating imho as Peach because Falcon literally runs circles around you and wait for you to do anything he can punish and then ***** your face for it. So you have to just sort of trudge across the screen and pin him down somehow or wait for him to approach, which can happen very rarely if they know anything about this matchup at all, and then out prioritize him or punish his landing lag with dash attack or moves.

It's not that bad, it's not like Fox, Sheik, or Marth but it's really dumb and the sheer mass of dash dance camping will make you want to rip your eyes out on a big stage.

 

[araknophobik]

i would much rather fight a marth or sheik than a falcon
fast fallers can punish peach due to the speed

 

[NES n00b]

I didn't say either of you were bad, I just said Jiano is very good.

You probably did better because Xif's style is very unique and you're probably more used to it. And know how to deal with it.

The below part was my point. So I don't think everything that works on Jiano works on me or vice versa. Cause he is better than me. NO DOUBT. I am just saying I don't think that one vid could be stretched on what to do vs me and Iori specifically. Though, I bet XiF will do better against me next time and two stock me.

Also, I only played XiF in two sets. =( Not enough playing him for how close to my area he is.

 

[HiIH]

<.< We were actually just talking about those sets last night.

and how XiF flew into a fit of rage.

>.>

 

[KirbyKaze]

XiF gets angry a lot during matches he doesn't do good in.

I remember him screaming at TGMTSBCO after me and Kage beat him and Green Mario. I thought he was going to punch someone LOL.

Then when I talked to him later he turned out to be incredibly chill. Whaddyaknow.

 

[Mew2King]

it is very close to even, but falcon probably has a very very small advantage overall, peach has the advantage on FD

 

[KirbyKaze]

other than fd and fod what stages does peach want in this matchup game 1, m2k?

 

[NES n00b]

XiF gets angry a lot during matches he doesn't do good in.

I remember him screaming at TGMTSBCO after me and Kage beat him and Green Mario. I thought he was going to punch someone LOL.

Then when I talked to him later he turned out to be incredibly chill. Whaddyaknow.

Yeah he is actually a real cool dude it is just during the matches where he isn't doing as well as he think he should. Well, this is a guess cause I noticed that he wasn't as angry at Chaddd for beating him.

 

[KirbyKaze]

In fairness I think me and Kage only won because Kage is ridiculous and periodically goes on berserk rampages and ***** everyone and Sheik's bair is like ultra spammable on Mario/Peach's recovery.

I pulled a no hands. Go me.

 

[exarch]

I made this post at the beginning of 2007
It's from this thread

"Ok so the information here is a little outdated. *Looks at '04 posts*

CF has some BS he can do to peach. A grab at 0 means a dthrow chain till about 20 (assuming you DI away), then an uthrow into a couple of uairs (across the stage). All in all about 60%. Assuming you DI towards on the uthrow, you then eat a nair combo which does who knows how much % and goes for until the stage runs out.

Basically if CF grabs you, you're pretty lucky to get out before 60%. Considering peach dies at 120 latest from the knee, that's half your stock from one grab.

Above that, nair/uair combos get easier which almost always end in knee, and peach (and everyone else) die really fast from that move. However Peach is probably 2nd best at surviving the knee-after samus.
------------------
However, peach can combo CF back. Tilts, uairs, and dash attacks into fairs are great and a lot of fun. Dsmash is a great weapon (as usual), and does a great job beating a lot of his approaches. If you do CG, you can start around 30-35ish and go till about 80.

As counters, dash attack, downsmash, umbrella, and fsmash (too a lesser extent usmash and ftilt) are all spectacular for beating his approaches. Utilt might work too, but I haven't tried it.

Jumping gets you owned in this match, because he can pretty easily intercept you out of the air with a nair, then grab you-> 60% to you.

Generally DIing away from dthrow allows you to get a nair in before/while getting kneed at higher percents. if you're gonna die, might as well do it with a trade. DIing away from combos is typically the best to do as well (because you get to the other side of the stage faster), until you get right to the edge. Sometimes changing your DI from away into up and towards when hit by the last uair can save you from a knee. Don't get caught DIing away when he goes for the knee.

Smash DIing and Cstick DIing (down/away/towards--i think it's down) can get you out of nair combos, from what I understand. Definitely good to try/learn.
------------------
Overall this matchup is very even, where Peach used to own CF, it's now (IMO) one of the most even matchups in the game. Both characters get to own each other a lot."

I still agree with all of this information, but adding well timed groundfloat nairs actually works similar to the dash attack, but without the ability to be SG'ed.

Otherwise I haven't changed too much in how I approach this, I play with a very good CF all the time (who can't remember the last time he lost to XIF) (<3 Xiffers). Fsmash is a good mixup, but not something to be used all the time.

Here's my most recent stuff recorded against CF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2W3OaffpbE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4kz-bIK5tE

And yes, NESNoob is very good, I remember losing to him in friendlies/splitting friendlies with him, and I don't lose very often to CFs.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

On the DI part: As a falcon player, I'll tell you what type of DI ****s me up the most
First of all, DI'ing down and away makes comboing harder at any percent. It's still perfectly possible to combo peach if you're fast enough, but usually peach can't get out anyway so making the combo as hard as possible to perform is a good idea. DI'ing his dthrow down and away makes all type of follow ups harder aswell (including the dthrow chain)

At low percent, DI'ing UP is actually a good idea, because the uair doesn't start comboing until 25-35% or so.
Since the CF prolly is somewhat aware of this, he might nair. and if you're DI'ing up the second hit will miss (the combo will end there, start floating and dair him or whatever).
Second of all, the CF might go for uairs anyway.
If he tries to do fulljump double uairs you can nair out. If he stays on the ground and spams shffl uairs really fast you're in a really bad position but atleast you're not getting combo'd lol. Try to float away and/or dair/nair/bair him
But if you're DI'ing up watch out for the knee, b/c if you DI up and he knees you you're gonna get double/triple knee'd easily

EDIT: Exarch, LMFAOOO @ reasons why smash>Gf in your sig
"15. Smash is controlled by a program; not total chaos.
3. Being a Half-Minute Man earns you points in smash.
SilentWolf: 1. cause you can skip the intro and get right to the main attraction."
LOOOL

 

[Silent Wolf]

I said that? lmao

 

[XIF]

NESN00b beat me because he beat me.

He outplayed me...

and I suicided at 15% =P

I feel like I was playing really bad, since I hadnt played much since TGMTSBCO, but no johns.

If it means anything, I dont expect to lose to NESN00b again

 

[NES n00b]

If it means anything, I dont expect to lose to NESN00b again

I don't expect to win again either. <3

 

[Sh0ckwave]

wait wait wait so ur not supposed to jump a lot in a vs cpt. falcon match? i get knees to the face if i stay on the ground, especially if i even think about dsmashing, what gives? i thought her aerials outprioritized his.

 

[JFox]

Um, I think this matchup is probably my favorite, and I've beaten pretty awesome falcons. I have a really gay style. Basically the entire matchup is a stalemate until someone makes the first move. So if your opponent is willing to be the one to make that move, u win, LOL.

Did u know that other than Dair, u can CC dsmash all of falcon's approach game at low percents? LOL. So the only thing u worry about is that one move until u get to about 50. Just DD space his shffls, and punish when he misses, or CC if he doesn't miss (unless they shffl a dair, then just space).

If he DD camps u, it sucks. Basically pull turnips ONLY when he is far enough to not punish. Don't approach with turnips, just use them as spam to force him to approach u. He can literally DD space everything u have into a grab combo, so DONT approach.

Use bair approach if he isn't DD'ing. Double jump cancel bairs are good too, but use normal float bairs also.

When he is off the stage, u want him to try to come in low. If they try to sweetspot, just grab ledge. So many idiots do that waiting for a dsmash. If he comes high, u have to cover both ledge and platforms. So don't grab ledge unless its FD. What Kirbstir does is he sits in float so that his head is sticking up above the platform, so that if he lands, u can nair/fair him off. If he goes low, u can still fall with fair to cover the ledge. Know that many many many falcons are gonna try to mindgame DI into ledge. Just know its coming, give them room, then punish. Also throwing a turnip up severely limits their upward mobility with their Up B and covers the platforms well.

I know this sounds simple, but it works.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

stay low to the ground and fc bairs and nairs really fast. what he means is not float around like peach would do in the fox matchup or something
which is great advice, nairing a peach out of that is one of the easiest/most effective ways to start a combo. or uairing if they're to high for nair. Or just knee'ing them and comboing them off the knee.

 

[JFox]

Yea, don't float high looking for a fair or something, like u would vs spacies. Falcon will just uair combo that way.

Although, that does work wonders as a baiting tactic. Float right at that height where u can get hit by a low shffld uair. Then when falcon comes for it, drop out of float, CC and dsmash. I do this so much its embarassing that it still works.

 

[NES n00b]

Otherwise I haven't changed too much in how I approach this, I play with a very good CF all the time (who can't remember the last time he lost to XIF) (<3 Xiffers). Fsmash is a good mixup, but not something to be used all the time.

And yes, NESNoob is very good, I remember losing to him in friendlies/splitting friendlies with him, and I don't lose very often to CFs.

It is unfair. You get to play one of if not the best falcon in the entire Atlantic South. Derf and Exarch are way too good.

Thanks for the compliment.