Peach related things I would like to see added or changed

[Handles]

I play as Peach a lot. But there are a few things I would like to either change, add, or possibly include in a Peach-clone:

1) Side-B - I feel that Peach'es Side-B could be improved by allowing her move to hit shields. As it it, she almost always will slide past a shielding character instead of hitting their shield, which is not only annoying, but it's counterintuitive to what you would expect from the scenario.

2) Down-B - I would like to have the option to not be able to pull any non-turnip items. I end up having too many instances where I end up getting SDed by a Bob-omb that was knocked out of my hands then detonated. I've had similar instances with Beam Swords, but I actually have nothing against Mr. Saturn, except maybe his throwing trajectory as compared to a turnip. I would prefer having a turnip that had similar properties to Mr. Saturn to use, in that it does strong shield damage.

3) Long-Pull Down-B - The idea behind this would be that Peach, or a clone type character, could adjust the speed of their turnip pulls, not to improve the odds of getting a better turnip, but to increase the size of the turnip. Peach'es turnips are capable of changing size in-game. If Peach uses a Super Mushroom, then both she and the turnips pulled afterwards become bigger. Also, if she becomes normal size, and is holding a large turnip, it won't change size with her, it stays Big! The same is true of the Poison Mushroom and making the turnips small. As such, I would like to see Peach, or a clone, be able to hold the animation to be able to get a large turnip, or possibly use the move really fast and get a tiny turnip.

As it is though I really like Peach overall, but I would like to see some changes to make her a little more interesting to play.

 

[deadjames]

If side-b hit shields it would be ridiculous, it would make one of her only risky moves extremely safe, I don't really see that happening. Personally, I love pulling Bob-ombs, Beam Swords, and Mr. Saturn, they all help me more than they hinder me, but your third idea is an interesting concept.

 

[Angrycuban]

I like the idea of the side b hitting shields because that move would be god like then haha. Its already solid for tech chasing and recovery mix ups. The long turnip pull seems a little weird but if they added it i wouldn't complain lol it sounds like a buff. As for items, its an interesting idea but honestly i just throw any item i get immediately, especially bombs cause I don't wanna risk it hitting me, unless i pull a beam sword against marth then i give him a taste of his own forward smash spamming medicine lol.

 

[deadjames]

When I pull a Bob-omb I literally just throw it and scream bomb, even in tournament. I like to play mind games when I pull a stitch though.

 

[Angrycuban]

When I pull a Bob-omb I literally just throw it and scream bomb, even in tournament. I like to play mind games when I pull a stitch though.

haha i love mindgaming with a stitch. If you just float outside of their range and hold the stitch they are usually so scared you can just float right up lol its amazing.

 

[Doctor Pink]

Make Shadow Peach pull out a shadow Toad.

 

[TimeSmash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZW7_JJ12fE

Does this still exist in PM?

 

[G13_Flux]

well that video was from 2012.. which means that was demo 2.1. test it out i suppose. i dont think i ever heard anything about something like that being removed, but i havent seen anyone use it, and theres been a lot of patches and changes since 2.1.

 

[deadjames]

It's actually a Brawl tech and it's not, nor was it ever in PM as far as I'm aware.

 

[TimeSmash]

I knew it was a Brawl technique, "still" being used in the term of it was in Brawl, is it still in PM. It's kind of gimmicky but I wouldn't mind having it in

 

[PKIvysaur]

i like the idea of the peach bomber hitting shields. It wouldn't make her OP either. The move is useless as it it, but if there was a reason to use it, then we could see peach as a MUCH better character, cause being able to use her floating into air combos after the bomber air boost would seriously help her rack up damage.

something i would like to see is a faster start up animation for the attack, like in smash4, instead of a lagging twirl at the beginning, she just thrusts forward very much like her back aerial, which has no annoying twirl.

 

[deadjames]

Peach Bomber is definitely not useless, it's a great tech chase option if you get a read, and Peach has no problem racking up damage, she can do 60% with one move.

 

[G13_Flux]

bomber hitting shields would be wayyy too safe. its not supposed to be an approach option, peach has always had a good enough neutral game, and in PM its even better with GT and AGT. you might think its not broken, but when you have a move that stays so safe like that, on a character with an already amazing approach game, coupled with the fact that the reward for landing a bomber is quite high, it just makes for an imbalance. Peach decimates characters in shields, as well as CCers. if peach had ANOTHER option that dealt well with BOTH of those things, the only option your opponent would have is to be a disjointed character, or roll and spot dodge a lot.. This would mean peach basically is in a 50/50 guessing game as to what your opponent is going to do all the time, and she doesnt need to put that much effort in to cover the options between turnips, jabs, dsmashes, and dash attack.

 

[Phan7om]

I knew it was a Brawl technique, "still" being used in the term of it was in Brawl, is it still in PM. It's kind of gimmicky but I wouldn't mind having it in

Dont know if you figured it out after all this time, but it isnt. Two of the more difficult Brawl techs, bonewalking and freepulling, arent in the game. I would like to see it somehow get in tho. I dont see why people would complain about it, but you cant really predict things like this lol.

 

[GreaterMaelstrom]

The Biggest peach change for Project M would be to remove here DJC capabilities... that's probably one of the biggest design flaws of Project M. I'ma make this simple - there are two reasons why DJC on peach kinda is a bad decision.

1. It hinders her spacing ability, unlike ness, lucas & yoshi.. most of her aerials have either a considerable amount of start up or a long duration... which makes the move more effective if done while rising or moving horizontally. canceling her second jump hinders her spacing ability especially with Fair and Uair.
2. Peach can float cancel her jumps anyways - um so why the unnecessary mechanic?

 

[deadjames]

The Biggest peach change for Project M would be to remove here DJC capabilities... that's probably one of the biggest design flaws of Project M. I'ma make this simple - there are two reasons why DJC on peach kinda is a bad decision.

1. It hinders her spacing ability, unlike ness, lucas & yoshi.. most of her aerials have either a considerable amount of start up or a long duration... which makes the move more effective if done while rising or moving horizontally. canceling her second jump hinders her spacing ability especially with Fair and Uair.
2. Peach can float cancel her jumps anyways - um so why the unnecessary mechanic?

You obviously aren't aware of the awesomeness that is dsmash OoS which would be impossible without DJC.

 

[GreaterMaelstrom]

You obviously aren't aware of the awesomeness that is dsmash OoS which would be impossible without DJC.

wait? what? ...uh isn't Dsmash OoS done by Ground canceling peaches second jump > dsmash...? - DJCing is when you cancel the double jump w/ and aerial.
Hence why the other characters who can DJC can't perform a Dsmash OoS.

Peaches low velocity for the start up of her secondjump allows Neutrality OoS not DJCing.

 

[Phan7om]

Just get creative with it. Dark Pch, on stream, figured out some kind of DJC with Fair which auto cancelled before she hit the ground. The movement was very versatile, she would jump forward and then almost instantly land back to where she was previously where he could then attack or anything. DJC probably has more uses, we just need to find them.

 

[deadjames]

wait? what? ...uh isn't Dsmash OoS done by Ground canceling peaches second jump > dsmash...? - DJCing is when you cancel the double jump w/ and aerial.
Hence why the other characters who can DJC can't perform a Dsmash OoS.

Peaches low velocity for the start up of her secondjump allows Neutrality OoS not DJCing.

Actually, Yoshi can dsmash OoS too, and it is DJC, it's possible for Peach and Yoshi because they dip down during their second jump unlike other DJC characters, they can basically do any grounded action OoS.

 

[GreaterMaelstrom]

Actually, Yoshi can dsmash OoS too, and it is DJC, it's possible for Peach and Yoshi because they dip down during their second jump unlike other DJC characters, they can basically do any grounded action OoS.

well, yeah, I knew about Yoshi too I just assumed it was because he's Ground canceling his second jump just like peach..i guess i wasn't sure if it's actually implemented as DJCing. However regardless, I have a problem with canceling the second jump aerially by attacking.. i mean, I'm sure it can be removed without disabling her OoS options.

@ Phan7om I'd normally agree w/ a valid point like yours but in this case adding the DJC mechanic is a bit more of a hindrance than a benefit... not saying peach is bad because of it but the mechanic is unnecessary... peach float canceling into FF basically does the same thing, y'know... and without DJcing you can space and track better with Fair, Nair and Uair. - I just see it as a design flaw.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

I believe the correct term for Peach, Yoshi, and others doing DSmash out of shield is called a Double Jump Land. Pretty sure Ness can do it too. Either way, it is completely independant of DJC (specifically cancelling a double jump with an aerial).

 

[Dark.Pch]

@ Phan7om I'd normally agree w/ a valid point like yours but in this case adding the DJC mechanic is a bit more of a hindrance than a benefit... not saying peach is bad because of it but the mechanic is unnecessary... peach float canceling into FF basically does the same thing, y'know... and without DJcing you can space and track better with Fair, Nair and Uair. - I just see it as a design flaw.

Peach FF out of floats is no the same thing. You instantly momentum change with DJC. If you go near someone and jump then will usually assume you will attack. You can then DJC mid height and change your momentum back at good speed and cancel your fair without having to really L cancel. And can react easily to anything your opponent does coming your way. Just as rolls, jumps OoS, grabs or attacks OoS.

Something that is safe and a fast bait is not a flaw.

The Biggest peach change for Project M would be to remove here DJC capabilities... that's probably one of the biggest design flaws of Project M. I'ma make this simple - there are two reasons why DJC on peach kinda is a bad decision.

1. It hinders her spacing ability, unlike ness, lucas & yoshi.. most of her aerials have either a considerable amount of start up or a long duration... which makes the move more effective if done while rising or moving horizontally. canceling her second jump hinders her spacing ability especially with Fair and Uair.

Her Spacing Ability is hella buff with speed and safe baits win ways I just explained above. And She has fast options out of shield Such as DJC> turn around > Jab. The Fastest options to punish someone OoS and start The Pressure, counter attacks, frame traps, etc.

2. Peach can float cancel her jumps anyways - um so why the unnecessary mechanic?

1. Her Spacing Ability is hella buff with speed and safe baits win ways I just explained above. And She has fast options out of shield Such as DJC> turn around > Jab. The Fastest options to punish someone OoS and start The Pressure, counter attacks, frame traps, etc.

2. Answered this question already. Need to Think outside the box And actually play around with what you have. And to answer the topic of this thread, I want My turnip cancel to work the way it did in brawl. I don't like how it is in this game.

 

[GreaterMaelstrom]

Peach FF out of floats is no the same thing. You instantly momentum change with DJC. If you go near someone and jump then will usually assume you will attack. You can then DJC mid height and change your momentum back at good speed and cancel your fair without having to really L cancel. And can react easily to anything your opponent does coming your way. Just as rolls, jumps OoS, grabs or attacks OoS.

Something that is safe and a fast bait is not a flaw.

Well, the exact same thing you mentioned is possible w/ float canceling, ...I'm doing it right now.
DJ > float cancel > Fair > hold down. Not to mention you can do the same thing with a single jump...but it is easier with float canceling. - and this technique isn't really that usefull, you're in the air caught in the start-up frames of Fair, and regardless of how you putt it you'll still have to deal with landing Lag. I mean, maybe it can fake out into a grab, but it's not as viable and safe as you think. - especially since her alternatives are better, FC > DAir > GC (has less landing lag, and also releases hitboxes much sooner. You can literally pressure, sheilders then grab of the ground cancel.) and Simply "Land canceling can fake out the opponent much much more safer and efficiently than what you suggested could.

1. Her Spacing Ability is hella buff with speed and safe baits win ways I just explained above. And She has fast options out of shield Such as DJC> turn around > Jab. The Fastest options to punish someone OoS and start The Pressure, counter attacks, frame traps, etc.

2. Answered this question already. Need to Think outside the box And actually play around with what you have. And to answer the topic of this thread, I want My turnip cancel to work the way it did in brawl. I don't like how it is in this game.

If you want to say DJcing benefits spacing, you could've atleast said you can DJC into Fair/BAir at low altitudes very* easily but the reasons you explained are not efficient. DJC OoS or land canceling is very good I'm not arguing against that... just see my post above. But there is no way that completely halting vertical momentum benefits the spacing of her aerials overall.

Tracking DI is almost impossible out of the first jump, Espeeeeecially with FAir, and UAir - if NAir wasn't such a good move DI tracking out of the jump would be completely non-existent.
Look, if a mechanic completely stops a character from playing in a way beneficial to them 'completely' - it's a flaw, a zit is a zit whether you enjoy playing with it or not... telling me to get creative with this mechanism on peach is not a solution to the fact that I CAN'T do something that I should be able to do... and the trade off is barely useful... I mean **** Noone even DJC w/ peach in melee!.

and by the way, I do think outside the box... If didn't, this for one wouldn't be a problem for me lol.

 

[deadjames]

I think Peach should get her Brawl glide toss back. I don't understand why hers is so mediocre when Diddy's, ROB's, Marth's, and ZSS' are still amazing and the latter two don't even have items.

 

[1FD]

^Traction and other physics.

If anything, the Bombbutt could use that 'Long Pull Turnip' treatment. The little hop is fine, but having that as the 'long and hard' version, with a softer fast version if not held, would be sexy.
The Bone-pulling thing would do WONDERS for her too. It's so risky to pull turnips in any situation that isn't already quite advantageous. :/

Don't underestimate things like Bombbutt and Toad in PM though, they're juicy...

- Bamesy

 

[Dark.Pch]

Well, the exact same thing you mentioned is possible w/ float canceling, ...I'm doing it right now.
DJ > float cancel > Fair > hold down. Not to mention you can do the same thing with a single jump...but it is easier with float canceling. - and this technique isn't really that usefull, you're in the air caught in the start-up frames of Fair, and regardless of how you putt it you'll still have to deal with landing Lag. I mean, maybe it can fake out into a grab, but it's not as viable and safe as you think. - especially since her alternatives are better, FC > DAir > GC (has less landing lag, and also releases hitboxes much sooner. You can literally pressure, sheilders then grab of the ground cancel.) and Simply "Land canceling can fake out the opponent much much more safer and efficiently than what you suggested could.


If you want to say DJcing benefits spacing, you could've atleast said you can DJC into Fair/BAir at low altitudes very* easily but the reasons you explained are not efficient. DJC OoS or land canceling is very good I'm not arguing against that... just see my post above. But there is no way that completely halting vertical momentum benefits the spacing of her aerials overall.

Tracking DI is almost impossible out of the first jump, Espeeeeecially with FAir, and UAir - if NAir wasn't such a good move DI tracking out of the jump would be completely non-existent.
Look, if a mechanic completely stops a character from playing in a way beneficial to them 'completely' - it's a flaw, a zit is a zit whether you enjoy playing with it or not... telling me to get creative with this mechanism on peach is not a solution to the fact that I CAN'T do something that I should be able to do... and the trade off is barely useful... I mean **** Noone even DJC w/ peach in melee!.

and by the way, I do think outside the box... If didn't, this for one wouldn't be a problem for me lol.

Why waste time going through all of that with floating and actually slower/telepathic?

How is instantly changing her momentum with a spaced move not help with............her spacing at all? This makes it really hard for people to try and jump in on her. Characters such as Marths I give a hard time coming in on me with his fairs and nairs. Also I can do this when opponents are behind me with quick momentum shift Bairs at a certain range (my safe zone is what I call it) to stop approaches and make people think about going in on me.

I don't know if you have me in the mind of OoS stuff, but what I am talking about has nothing to do with that at all. Seems to me you don't seem to understand what I'm getting at here. Or you seriously think changed your momentum at will with spaced moves or even item tosses/Z drops are useless at controlling space and baits.

I don't agree at all with what you say in terms of her DJC being useless. The double jump cancel momentum shifts are not like melee with her. In this game its fater and has good distance coming down. So there is no point at all being up why people don't use it. It's not good. In this game it actually is and I just broke it down. You thinking otherwise is why I say you are not thinking out the box, really if you think all this does not help Peach at all.

You are intitled to you opinion dude. As I am. So I am not gonna go back and fourth with you on this. I just don't agree with you and you need to get your mind out of melee. Cause this is not melee even if the games feel similar.

 

[GreaterMaelstrom]

Why waste time going through all of that with floating and actually slower/telepathic?

How is instantly changing her momentum with a spaced move not help with............her spacing at all? This makes it really hard for people to try and jump in on her. Characters such as Marths I give a hard time coming in on me with his fairs and nairs. Also I can do this when opponents are behind me with quick momentum shift Bairs at a certain range (my safe zone is what I call it) to stop approaches and make people think about going in on me.

I don't know if you have me in the mind of OoS stuff, but what I am talking about has nothing to do with that at all. Seems to me you don't seem to understand what I'm getting at here. Or you seriously think changed your momentum at will with spaced moves or even item tosses/Z drops are useless at controlling space and baits.

I don't agree at all with what you say in terms of her DJC being useless. The double jump cancel momentum shifts are not like melee with her. In this game its fater and has good distance coming down. So there is no point at all being up why people don't use it. It's not good. In this game it actually is and I just broke it down. You thinking otherwise is why I say you are not thinking out the box, really if you think all this does not help Peach at all.

You are intitled to you opinion dude. As I am. So I am not gonna go back and fourth with you on this. I just don't agree with you and you need to get your mind out of melee. Cause this is not melee even if the games feel similar.

Y'know it's almost liike you're completely ignoring my points....
I know what you were trying to get at, and I addressed them, this has nothing to do with Glide tossing, Zdroping and Fast falling to control space... I'm talking about Double Jump canceling...ON PEACH and that's it.

Good players tend to space aerials by distancing themselves from the foe during start up frames and closing in when the hitboxes are live. This allows for double/triple fairs, UAir + Uair strings, excellent DI tracking etc, etc. these options are hindered and or completely unavailable Due to peach's DJC - and what DJC offers in return is not essential, as most of the options DJCing offer can be executed another way.. In most cases more efficient ways ...Float canceling!!

The one thing you trully cannot do without DJC is a vertical aerial wavebounce, where you float cancel then DJC.. I understand this mechanic veeeeeeery well, which is why I'm sure how it works in PM is more of a hindrance than a benefit.
That's all I'm trying to say, pay attention.

Idek know what you were getting at with this point... If you haven't noticed, I'm arguing against a melee mechanic added to PM because it's unnecessary. My mind isn't in "melee" my mind is on good character design, some of which PM lack.

 

[KunchieMunchie]

Even though she doesn't really need it, I think it would be cool if Peach do an aerial while performing a second jump but without interrupting the jump, the way Ness and Lucas can. The problem with this is, it might interfere with the floating mechanic, because you have to hold jump to do it.