Peach Bomber= Completely Useless

[PKIvysaur]

Project M Dis wonders to peach.
Down smash
up tilt
turnips (Mostly.....)
Wall Bombing (but only to a degree)

But, they honestly forgot about the Bomber. Its too risky, doesnt KO at mid-high percent, and is too laggy at the beginning.

i like the idea of the peach bomber hitting shields. It wouldn't make her OP either. The move is useless as it it, but if there was a reason to use it, then we could see peach as a MUCH better character, cause being able to use her floating into air combos after the bomber's upward air boost would seriously help her rack up damage into her Dair float with her crown smack.

something i would like to see is a faster start up animation for the attack, like in smash4, instead of a lagging twirl at the beginning, she just thrusts forward very much like her back aerial, which has no annoying twirl, which saves us from obvious openings.

Now, we all remember wall bombing. how we could use it for recovering? Well i think it should come back, but nerfed.

HEAR ME OUT! Imagine this:

You're peach, hit off the edge of Yoshi's story, and used your double jump. now your umbrella cant get you up, so, peach bomb 3 times, Up-B, and get to saftey.
the peach bomb should raise her up one double jump IN PERSPECTIVE OF HER BRAWL DJ- Which was SOO God Awful, so it would bump you up just a tad for a max of 3 times, and after you use it up, it thrusts you down AFTER HITTING YOUR TARGET.

what do you guys think?

 

[CyberZixx]

You can turn the explosion into a heart. That in and of itself is fantastic. Maybe it could be used as a situational long range punish

 

[PKIvysaur]

You can turn the explosion into a heart. That in and of itself is fantastic. Maybe it could be used as a situation long range punish

How are hearts beneficial? MAybe the explosion should do more damage? and the hearts do less but have more knock back?

Maybe charge the bomber to increase range and damage?

 

[CyberZixx]

How are hearts beneficial? MAybe the explosion should do more damage? and the hearts do less but have more knock back?

Maybe charge the bomber to increase range and damage?

I just like the visual effect of the hearts.

 

[G13_Flux]

wait what? it kills pretty early actually..it also puts the opponent in a terrible position if it doesnt happen to kill them. its meant to be tech read/ platform coverage move really. can be used for edgeguarding too. its range was also increased dramatically. its quite usable now, and performs very well for the intended purpose.

im sorry but i think the things you suggested would make her seriously OP.. peach already WRECKS shields between turnips and FCs. making peach bomber activate on shields would all the sudden give her another option in neutral and make it simply too safe. Peach performs greatly as is, and with buffs to the fsmash and bomber, she was given two kill moves that really werent viable in melee. she was also given mobility increases with things like GT, AGT, and DACUS (which now actually gives her a chance at landing an upsmash!).

the wall bomb wouldnt be OP but again i dont think she needs it really. she was given a buff to her up b distance and her recovery is already like, the best recovery in the game next to kirby and m2.

i think you could argue for the plausibility of SMALL tweaks to things like bomber, but imo its uneeded, and it really wouldnt affect her core gameplay. im gonna have to doubt the PMBR wants to do anything with peach, as shes already quite solid as is.

if ANYTHING, i could see a change to upsmash. but thats literally the only move that is really underused, and the addition of DACUS might have helped give it a use.

 

[TimeSmash]

If it had just a little more priority, I'd be happy. It's annoying to have so much windup for a move and get beaten out by like, a tilt or something

 

[Inserio]

If it had just a little more priority, I'd be happy. It's annoying to have so much windup for a move and get beaten out by like, a tilt or something

I actually agree with this. I only want enough priority to clink with moves. At the moment it's basically only a good option for a mix-up/hard-read because if they anticipate it, I feel like they can throw out anything and the bomber will get stuffed and you'll take damage.

 

[Praxis]

one double jump IN PERSPECTIVE OF HER BRAWL DJ- Which was SOO God Awful, so it would bump you up just a tad for a max of 3 times

Don't speak ill of my precious beloved Brawl DJ, if she still had her Brawl DJ I would still be playing her in PM :'(

 

[G13_Flux]

^why lol? what was good about it? her DJ now is the reason her recovery and aerial mobility are so excellent. take that away and youve got a much worse player. peach is the best now that shes ever been smash.

i still go by the fact that it doesnt need to be changed. like with all moves that rush forward, theyre typically negatively disjointed. If they werent, it would make them way too hard to deal with. peach doesnt need the bomber as an option in neutral (which is what more priority would do to it). the fact that it excels during read situations (ie. tech chases) means that the distance it covers is really the main thing that matters. priority doesnt matter in tech chases because typically because its about figuring out where your opponent is going to go, not what attack they are going to throw out.

 

[Praxis]

^why lol? what was good about it?

It was the smallest second jump in the game, which made it an amazing spacing tool. Think of it like an aerial wavedash almost. You could bait someone to attack and jump back a tiny distance and punish their whiff. Since there was no DJC, you could do stuff like quickly double jump a rising nair out of a float as well, or combo uair off of things (uair jump nair, for example).

And since, in Brawl, fair's hitbox was disjointed to be all the way in front of her instead of inside of her, having that second jump that was tiny was huge for your spacing. Her fair outranged Marth's. You could jump at Marth to bait his fair and jump back and do your own fair and his would whiff and yours would connect.

She basically had no problem ever getting off the ledge because she could release the ledge and use her tiny second jump on stage with an aerial while still invincible. Since her fair autocancelled with zero landing lag on hitbox, gave frame advantage on shield, and reached way in front of her, she could basically get back on stage for free.

My game was heavily based around spacing with her second jump and fair. IMO Brawl Peach was actually buffed in terms of her tools- she has better tools and options than Melee Peach ever had- but had absolutely zero kill options (dsmash removed, fthrow gimped, and increased stale move negation ruined fair since fair was now your bread and butter spacing move), which is what made her worse.

 

[G13_Flux]

her turnips were also nerfed in brawl. idk, all the things you mentioned can be done with peach's jump atm in conjunction with float for the most part. her fair (and all of her other aerials) are still advantageous on shield, so much that you can even get a grab off most of them and still beat grabs OOS. fair might have slightly less range, ill admit that, but its use in the neutral game is still as effective in the melee/project m environment because of peach's ability to camp in the air above projectiles and come down quickly with it. another thing is that the effectiveness of turnips in this game is much much more than in brawl, and being able to use aerials simultaneously with that option in hand during a float compliments her toolset quite a lot. in brawl, the effectiveness of her recovery (in comparison to the cast) was not only lessened because of the shorter distance of the second jump, but because recovering for almost all of the characters was easy.

I will agree with you that in terms of a brawl environment, peach's moveset fit very well (obvously minus the lack of KO moves). but in melee/PM she has far more tools that compliment a good playstyle than brawl. if she had her brawl second jump in this game, her recovery would be trashed. She would go from top 3 in terms of recovery to average at best. additionally, it would destroy some of her potent edge guard options. have you ever seen a peach travel down into the depths of the bottom corner of the map to secure an edge guard, and still make it back without putting in effort at all? it would also hinder her onstage mobility by making it impossible to reach the top platform on places like dreamland where she performs extremely well (like literally, this stage was practically designed for peach). maybe in brawl, the micro spacing techniques it let you do were effective, but in this game, the things it would take away from her would far outweigh whatever it would give her. I have to say that i probably wouldnt play peach all that much if they messed with her second jump, but i know that they wont.

 

[Phan7om]

Make it a shield breaker

 

[Praxis]

her turnips were also nerfed in brawl. idk, all the things you mentioned can be done with peach's jump atm in conjunction with float for the most part. her fair (and all of her other aerials) are still advantageous on shield, so much that you can even get a grab off most of them and still beat grabs OOS. fair might have slightly less range, ill admit that, but its use in the neutral game is still as effective in the melee/project m environment because of peach's ability to camp in the air above projectiles and come down quickly with it. another thing is that the effectiveness of turnips in this game is much much more than in brawl, and being able to use aerials simultaneously with that option in hand during a float compliments her toolset quite a lot. in brawl, the effectiveness of her recovery (in comparison to the cast) was not only lessened because of the shorter distance of the second jump, but because recovering for almost all of the characters was easy.

The turnips were nerfed in priority in Brawl, but glide tossing meant that they gave her a huge mobility advantage. Brawl Peach is extremely mobile with turnips and I liked her turnip game a lot better. Remember, Brawl had less shieldstun, and turnip throw is 3 frames OOS- if you had a turnip in hand, you could punish almost anything imaginable on shield, because near zero hitstun plus buffering plus 3 frame OOS throw meant you could just input the throw or a glide toss the moment you got hit on your shield.

Her fair is advantageous on shield in both games yes, but you're massively understating the range distance. It outranged Marth's fair. It has completely different utility. People could not stop you from getting on the stage if you released the edge with a jump and fair.

Peach had enormous air mobility- far more than in Melee and PM- and a much better ledge game in Brawl. Melee Peach has more reach (like you said, able to reach the Dream Land platforms quicker, I'll agree with that.

and being able to use aerials simultaneously with that option in hand during a float compliments her toolset quite a lot.

Brawl Peach could use all her aerials while floating too, but she actually had the option to use all her aerials while not floating with a turnip in hand as long as she pressed Z the frame before she did an aerial. In Brawl, aerials would catch items, so if you pressed Z the frame before attacking you'd drop your item and then pick it up with an attack.

This is ancient, but watch my opening moves in this video; repeated Z-drop Fair-caught turnips to allow me to hold the turnip while fairing.

have you ever seen a peach travel down into the depths of the bottom corner of the map to secure an edge guard, and still make it back without putting in effort at all?

On the flip side, Peach had fantastic edgeguarding with her Brawl second jump too. She could grab the ledge, release jump nair to put a ball of invincible hitbox around the ledge, which she could land and then regrab the ledge, for example. Also, she had her edgecancelled turnip pulls in Brawl which combined very nastily with her short jump (run offstage, freepull, Z-drop, immediately hop back on stage and freepull again).

Anyway, I'm not arguing for the PMBR to put her Brawl second jump in (though I'd love it if she had both jump options like Yoshi and Ness have), just explaining why her Melee second jump makes it very hard for me to play her.

 

[G13_Flux]

her turnip throw was 8 frames not 3 frames. regardless, i do agree that her fair was better in brawl, but since she had so many other tools taken away, it rendered her character a lot less effective. the only advantage peach's turnips had in brawl was that her backwards glide toss actually had length to it. i dont understand why her backwards glide toss is so small in PM, i feel like its an oversight honestly. but everything else about her tunips is better in melee/PM, including edge guarding with them. her edge guarding game might have been good in brawl, but like i said, there were too many characters with really good recoveries, and it was too easy to slip past even good edge guarders.

anyhow, i do understand your troubles transitioning to PM peach. she definitely plays a tad different than in brawl. i had to do the same thing with wolf, who i was used to in brawl (however, hes wayyyy better in PM and thats not even a question, so the transition was worth it). keep an open mind about the character, because peach has a lot of tools, and its a lot easier to convert kills, recover, and approach in the melee/PM environment even with a fair that has slightly less range. if you consider all the tools at her disposal, she is a much better character than in brawl.

anyways, on the topic of her bomber, id really like to see people experiment with it a bit more in different situations because it seriously is a great tool. you just have to figure out when to use it, and when not to.

 

[Angrycuban]

I want the brawl fair back with the sparkles in front of the tiara :3

 

[Fronk]

What if you could pull back on the control stick to change the range of the booty blast, similar to Yoshi's eggs?

 

[TopKek.GG]

I think Peach Bomber is pretty strong actually. You definitely can't use it in a straight up combat moment, but it is an extremely useful tool if you can time it right during a fall, or when your opponent is recovering.

The range on it is usually way longer than most people think it is also, the hitbox stays active til the bitter end of that animation.

It would be nice to be able to use it in a more face-to-face situations though, i feel like the voice clip in the wind-up allows for the opponent to prepare for it way too early on. But maybe if they fixed/changed any of that it might become too OP.

 

[P.J.☆]

I'd rather have Peach bomber have less range and much shorter start up lag than long rang and long start up. Like in smash 4.

Also with shorter range and less start up it would travel faster. Meaning it would hit/surprise more

 

[Fronk]

I'd rather have Peach bomber have less range and much shorter start up lag than long rang and long start up. Like in smash 4.

Also with shorter range and less start up it would travel faster. Meaning it would hit/surprise more

This. You could even decrease the damage slightly. Make it a tool used for spacing rather than some rediculous attack that hits mostly out of luck.

 

[InfinityCollision]

If that happened you'd likely just continue using her various safer options that do the exact same thing, making it worse overall. It's fine as is.

 

[TimeSmash]

After getting used to it, it's not the worst move. Although I could still deal with better priority.

Hitting the edge with it and having people get caught in the explosion is kind of nice when it works

 

[Angrycuban]

honestly feel like peach bomber is completely useless and it should stay that way lol. Its a gimmicky B move that just shouldn't be used

 

[Brocolli123]

Project M Dis wonders to peach.
Down smash
up tilt
turnips (Mostly.....)
Wall Bombing (but only to a degree)

But, they honestly forgot about the Bomber. Its too risky, doesnt KO at mid-high percent, and is too laggy at the beginning.

i like the idea of the peach bomber hitting shields. It wouldn't make her OP either. The move is useless as it it, but if there was a reason to use it, then we could see peach as a MUCH better character, cause being able to use her floating into air combos after the bomber's upward air boost would seriously help her rack up damage into her Dair float with her crown smack.

something i would like to see is a faster start up animation for the attack, like in smash4, instead of a lagging twirl at the beginning, she just thrusts forward very much like her back aerial, which has no annoying twirl, which saves us from obvious openings.

Now, we all remember wall bombing. how we could use it for recovering? Well i think it should come back, but nerfed.

HEAR ME OUT! Imagine this:

You're peach, hit off the edge of Yoshi's story, and used your double jump. now your umbrella cant get you up, so, peach bomb 3 times, Up-B, and get to saftey.
the peach bomb should raise her up one double jump IN PERSPECTIVE OF HER BRAWL DJ- Which was SOO God Awful, so it would bump you up just a tad for a max of 3 times, and after you use it up, it thrusts you down AFTER HITTING YOUR TARGET.

what do you guys think?

It is a powerful and slow move but it has uses. For instance I like to combo some knock back from say a turnip then side b into them before they can shield or get away. If you can get the read for people recovering ontop of stage you can punish with a side b, It's pretty effective against lucario

 

[PKIvysaur]

It is a powerful and slow move but it has uses. For instance I like to combo some knock back from say a turnip then side b into them before they can shield or get away. If you can get the read for people recovering ontop of stage you can punish with a side b, It's pretty effective against lucario

Hmmmm
makes sense.... i like the idea of it getting more priority though. Actually if it had that I'd be happy

 

[ChiePet]

Sweet-spotting the space between the ledge and the opponent is my second favorite use for Peach Bomber.




My favorite use for it is an embarassing tech chase kill when my opponent stays super readable.
#AllAboutThatBass

 

[G13_Flux]

Sweet-spotting the space between the ledge and the opponent is my second favorite use for Peach Bomber.




My favorite use for it is an embarassing tech chase kill when my opponent stays super readable.
#AllAboutThatBass

those are about the only legitimate uses that i think its for.. lol. the only other one i can think of is maybe out of a dtilt on FFers.

 

[Moosewad]

Completely useless? God there is so much wrong with that. You ever get a nice down smash to off stage peach bomb against a falcon? Cuz I do, all the damn time. or any spacies trying to recover with side-b, it will beat it or connect and go back with the fox/falco for the Nair. everyone needs to practice tech chases and gimps with it because it is SUPER deadly as a gimp!!

http://gfycat.com/DesertedGiftedCougar

 

[Moosewad]

Also it has 24 active frames in the air with 12 frames of cool down

 

[dg-pilz-e]

Peach bomber is actually pretty good imo but you can't just throw it out you gotta be smart. I use it with turnips in the air then when the other players options are minimized i go for it. So satisfying < 3

One thing i wouldn't mind seeing is maybe it actually hitting on shield though its really dumb that you just fly through it rofl

 

[Manaconda]

You guys have seen its hitbox, right?

I mean, it has it's place as a surprise (which is its purpose I suppose), but once your opponent even suspects you might go for it there are so many problems that I just opt out of ever using it. I also don't see how it's different from using dash attack in a tech chase, apart from the fact that you get follow-ups from dash attack with certain characters.

 

[Manaconda]

So I've been counting my blessings and looking at what Peach has gained from Melee. I've done a lot of thinking about this move recently, and I realize I'm an idiot for not noticing what it's supposed to do. Like, I'm really stupid for not having noticed this earlier, probably because I was too busy playing her like Melee Peach.

When used from right next to where your opponent lands and the instant your opponent lands, it covers 3/4 tech options. Its 22 frame start-up will consume the time it takes for your opponent to tech in place (unless your opponent is Pikachu?), and the moving hitbox will take care of missed tech and tech away. If your opponent techs towards you, unless they're sonic or Falcon or Fox and can run 2/3 of FD in 30 frames, you're going to be safe.

The hitbox on this move is straight-up pitiful, there's a wicked loud audio cue at the start of the move, and it gets beat out by so many things and this move goes through shields and is the most punishable thing ever with its IASA on frame 71 or so. But I'm convinced that it's her strongest kill option at any point on the stage (by a small margain). Taking these into account, I'm like 90% sure that tech-chasing is the sole purpose (or main purpose) of this move, because that's the only time it's utterly and completely safe and it covers an aspect of Peach's game that she usually sucks at because she's so slow.

I like this move. It's really easy to DI properly because your opponent will always see it coming when they get used to it, but I can't complain. I've also ended combos with it, but it's kind of unsafe/you have to be precise and know your hitstun.

 

[GDNALK]

It's not a move that should be used often, but calling it completely useless makes you sound like you're just not trying. Using it really depends on how well you can read your opponent; if they're not in a position to react, the Peach Bomber is going to deal hella damage and, of course, knock them towards the sides of the stage, which is exactly where you want your opponent with Peach. It's also a pretty good kill move if you do it at the side of the stage.

The Peach Bomber has also become a better anti-edgeguarding tool than it was in Melee, mainly due to distance. Often times I find players who try to "scare" their opponents from grabbing the ledge by throwing out moves while their opponent is off the stage without even really trying to hit them. That doesn't go over so well with Peach, and a Peach Bomber back onto the stage is easy to execute after their move is finished, but before they're able to act again.

Overall, it's very situational in use, but by no means is it anywhere near useless. Most characters have situational moves, and I don't see why the Peach Bomber is any different.

 

[gregWHO]

I think the one thing that hasn't been brought up in this thread so far about bomber is the angle. The angle is freaking glorious and IMO difficult to DI when sent off-stage.

I feel like if you had your choice of all of Peach's moves to punish (or bet it all on a read) with an opponent close to the edge (given that the move will hit), this is the move. Even a lower percents, so many characters' recoveries just can't deal with bomber's angle and power. More setups and ideas will come in time, but the potential is there.

Edit: Also, your opponent just got killed by your ass. So there's that.

 

[Aquatics]

you can use PB on a ledge while recovering to get height if you dont have your jump or float