Patch 1.1.4 - Last chance for buffs!

[Strider755]

OK, I'm going to go ahead and get this thread going now in anticipation for the Wednesday patch. Let's pray to Daddy Sakurai for some major buffs!

 

[Xygonn]

Prediction:

Literally no changes.

Hope:
whiffed grab faf reduction. I mean jesus, look at what they did to link and lucas.

 

[_gold_]

I can dream, but I don't see any buffs happening. I kindof view last patch as Samus' last chance for a buff. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yeah realistically the best we can hope for is minor grab buffs, and maybe some random damage increases on our attacks

 

[Petroklos]

Removed/DecreasedSizeOf Hurtboxes (no Hurtbox on the Hand Cannon or her Feet, or extended Hurtbox on Zair)
Fixed/IncreasedSizeOf Hitboxes (FSmash, Ftilt, DAir come to mind)
All her sweetspots have more knockback+growth
Increased her Speed (walk, run, air, all). Quick Fall speed has recieved the bigest buff
Her rolls are shorter, removing frames when she can be hit
Grabs come out faster and have way less endlag
UpThrow combos like the current Down Throw
Down Throw keeps on comboing in way higher percents
Backthrow kills from edge at 120
Fthrow kills from edge at 150
Jab1 can convert into Jab2 or any Tilt just by moving the Control Stick to the desired direction, none true combo
Ftilt is now two hitboxes replacing the weaker with an elongated mediocre
UpTIlt is unTechable
DSmash is much faster, back and second forward hitboxes kill
Upsmash actually connects and catches anyone you're looking at and is next to you, regardles of size or crouching
FSmash is better because hitbox, hurtbox and sweetspot changes
NeutralB is B-Reversable, has higher Knockback Growth
Super Missiles have higher Damage, Knockback, Growth and hit short characters (not short crouching ones though)
Homing Missiles are slightly faster and actualy home
SideB in general has way less lag. Short-Hop->SideB has no Landing Lag. B Reversable
Down B has a weak spike (see Slip Bomb) and is B Reversable
UpB actually connects all of the time, kills a bit earlier
UpAir has less knockback growth, comboing towards higher percents
FAir has higher knockback growth on the last hit, less landing lag and is easier to do lagless from edge drop
Dair is much faster, the hitbox is fixed and moved downwards, also the hand cannon has no hurtbox now remember? the spike is harder to land though
Zair deals damage across the whole beam (1%) and doesn't get canceled by platforms, sweetspot has slightly higher Knockback and Knockback growth (the Simon Belmont for edgeguarding)

All of these will happen, obviously.

Spoiler

none of these will happen, most likely

 

[JAZZ_]

The clock is ticking, All are praying, Please give us something Sakurai.

 

[White_Pointer]

I mentioned in the 1.1.3 thread that it looks as though buffs for lower tiers might be incoming, given that a video was released that showed Marth having buffs. So I'm holding onto hope.

Also, this isn't necessarily the final balance patch we'll receive.

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

If we do get buffs I'm (if they're actually relevant and not something inane like 1 frame off f-tilt) gonna be as giddy as a school girl.

On the other hand, If we receive none at all, then I'd love to know Sakurai's reasoning for it.

 

[_gold_]

Didn't Link get a tweak a few patches back where his grab had less end lag? Did Samus ever get a buff like that?

 

[White_Pointer]

Didn't Link get a tweak a few patches back where his grab had less end lag? Did Samus ever get a buff like that?

It was Lucas and no, Samus didn't get the same treatment. It would be nice, though.

 

[Afro Smash]

Link did get his grab buffed too, and got his d throw buffed

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

Link did get his grab buffed too, and got his d throw buffed

Not only that. But didn't his d-air get buffed to where it's no longer tech-able ?

 

[Pale Tuna]

She has quite a lot of trouble killing.. what do you all think about giving her a kill-throw? Nothing like Ness' but closer to maybe Pit/Dark Pit's. Also would like to see better throw combos, b-reversal CS, slight missile buff, improved jab attack, slightly more active hit-frames on Nair, and slight less end-lag on her Fair. Would also be cool to see her power bombs actually being able to bounce her like it did on previous iterations. I know I'm asking for too much but she'd be quite good... especially for someone who is a big face within Nintendo.

 

[Roy of Pharae]

samus seriously needs kill power! hit a cloud with a full charge shot while he was at over 100% didn't ko him. Also fix the ridiculous clanking and hitboxes and hurboxes. give her missile canceling

 

[_gold_]

samus seriously needs kill power! hit a cloud with a full charge shot while he was at over 100% didn't ko him. Also fix the ridiculous clanking and hitboxes and hurboxes. give her missile canceling

Missile canceling would be nice

 

[White_Pointer]

She has quite a lot of trouble killing.. what do you all think about giving her a kill-throw? Nothing like Ness' but closer to maybe Pit/Dark Pit's. Also would like to see better throw combos, b-reversal CS, slight missile buff, improved jab attack, slightly more active hit-frames on Nair, and slight less end-lag on her Fair.

We've been crying out for a kill throw since release, lol. I dunno if we'll ever get it but we'll be overjoyed if we do. She really needs one or there's no way her grab should be as bad as it is. Her grab needs work, give it the Lucas treatment and reduce its startup and end lag. At the very least it needs to have more active frames, being able to spot dodge it is stupid. Why does ZSSs grab have more active frames than ours?

Honestly, if grab is fixed by making it faster and/or more active frames, and she's given a kill throw, she suddenly turns into a pretty solid character. Fix her frame data and her charge shot clanking with stupid crap like Pac-Man's power pellet from his side b and she'll be high mid tier at least.

And for Pete's sake fix her jabs so jab 1 links into jab 2. I know it was designed that way, and it's stupid design. Fix it.

 

[Ffamran]

Missile canceling would be nice

Low overall recovery frames would be better. Means Missiles could be used in the air and on the ground safely without just strictly on the ground from a hop to auto-cancel them. Also, less complaints from other players that Samus is too campy or whatever... Smash for whatever reason as a whole, has absurd recovery frames for projectiles; either they're way too damn high or they're way too damn low, usually through auto-canceling. So, what you get are almost borderline useless projectiles in all modes or almost borderline broken projectiles in all modes. Those extremes are extremely notable in competitive play. Hello, 64 Fox, Melee and, ESPECIALLY Brawl Falco, and sort of Smash 4 Luigi.

Smash also has really stupid knockback in general. Hi, Sheik's Needle Storm. Why the hell do you have 180 knockback growth? Also, hello, ZSS Boost Kick. Why do you have 220 knockback growth? I get it, Boost Kick being a multi-hit means the last hit won't do much damage, so they need higher knockback growth, but 220? Really? Even for a multi-hitting projectile, 180 is pretty high, especially since it only does like 1.9% close or 1.2% far. I guess the problem is that Needle Storm doesn't have knockback data to account for just 1 or less than say, 4 Needles thrown. 1 Needle doing that little damage and that much knockback is absurd and you will or have seen Sheik players abuse that.

 

[Pale Tuna]

What about changing Samus from a floaty to a fast faller? Her Bair would be easier to connect and could possible be used to poke shields. Maybe even give her an AC Fair. I know traditionally she isn't much of a fast faller but it makes no sense that when her armor comes off, she becomes heavier.

 

[Slashster]

I hope they fix that glitch where Samus actually loses matches.
Huh? This joke has been done before? But I'm not joking.
~Seriously though, we can all pray for grab tweeks~

 

[Hark17ball]

What about changing Samus from a floaty to a fast faller? Her Bair would be easier to connect and could possible be used to poke shields. Maybe even give her an AC Fair. I know traditionally she isn't much of a fast faller but it makes no sense that when her armor comes off, she becomes heavier.

Technically she doesn't become heavier, just her gravity changes. Samus is the 6th heaviest.

Ideally if they gave her the M2/Lucas treatment she would be solid.

Hoping for some of the following.
-Less lag on aerials/missiles/bombs
-speed increase (slight)
-grab fix (less start up/end lag)
-Jab/Ftilt adjustment.
-Hitbox adjustment of Up&Fsmash/Fair
-Dmg increase to Zair/Dsmash
-Throw adjustment

The less lag on aerials would give her a slightly easier time trying to kill so she doesn't leave herself so open after every move. Also means missiles are somewhat respected and bombs can be helpful trapping. Atm she spends far to long recovering from their use.

Even a minor Speed Increase would help with follow ups off throws and hits allowing her "combo" game to be respected. As of now it's FAR to tight of a window compared to every other character.

Grab/Throw fix is needed. We get so little off grabs it's painful. They have CHOSEN to give Bowser, DK, Lucas, Link grabs that can change the tide from patches. We haven't received a single buff so already being being "low tier" we get left further behind with every characters adjustments.

When you face a character Game 3 of a tournament you're both at 125% Samus loses grab as an option while most other characters it becomes a HUGE threat. Sheik has a 50/50, ZSS Uair, Mario/Luigi/Sonic/Ryu/Ness/Lucas/Pits/M2/Links etc all Can slowly fish for a throw to kill. You land laggy you die.

Jab/Ftilt are unsafe before 45%. Make it so it's 20% and I'll be happy. The Ftilt nerf was uneeded in 1.0.6. This would help our "get off me" option as well as making Jab>Grab more viable.

Up/FSmash don't do as intended. A heavy weight with garbage Smashes is dumb. To many times have we lost potential damage and kills from these moves failing. FAir is the same way, the hitbox is CRAZY tiny it never traded with moves it straight up loses and drops people still. Which is another problem on her "killing" she can't reliably rack up % since we roll the dice every time we toss a move out.

If Zair had slightly more hitstun a Dash/Grab following it would be easier. Unless we get that speed adjustment then we probably don't need this in anyway.

That's all. Huge post, large rambling not looking to get all this and be overpowered but a quality of life adjustment would be appreciated since we've got Nothing worthwhile.

 

[_gold_]

And for Pete's sake fix her jabs so jab 1 links into jab 2. I know it was designed that way, and it's stupid design. Fix it.

That drives me up the wall. Seriously, only with Samus. Her second jab is virtually useless.

I would also really like to be able to charge my special while in the air. Lucario, DK, Wii Fit Trainer.. basically anyone with a chargeable special is capable of doing this. Except Samus.

 

[S.P.A.D.]

We ain't getting ****. I just don't see it happening.

 

[Hark17ball]

Purgatory is more torturous than even hell itself. On the gates of hell, it is written that you must abandon all hope. A human without hope can accept their suffering and give up. However, the residents of Purgatory have hope. A hope of possibly reaching heaven, a hope that cannot be abandoned, and that tortures them. ...Even in the depths of hell...no greater torture device exists than the single pin known as hope.

That sums up how Samus, Jiggs and Zelda mains are.

*Edit* if you know what VN that's from then you are instantly my favorite person/s.

 

[Roy of Pharae]

I am pissed, this is so stupid. Its maddening that we haven't gotten huge changes. I see nothing but shieks online too. Even brawl wasn't this ridiculous with character designs. If we actually get something good it'll be a miracle.

 

[Afro Smash]

Remember to follow these steps in 2 days time

 

[strike42]

The patch is tomorrow.

 

[Hapajin]

Purgatory is more torturous than even hell itself. On the gates of hell, it is written that you must abandon all hope. A human without hope can accept their suffering and give up. However, the residents of Purgatory have hope. A hope of possibly reaching heaven, a hope that cannot be abandoned, and that tortures them. ...Even in the depths of hell...no greater torture device exists than the single pin known as hope.

That sums up how Samus, Jiggs and Zelda mains are.

*Edit* if you know what VN that's from then you are instantly my favorite person/s.

This is why I think our frustration with the lack of Samus patches is justified. People object, "well in melee and brawl characters didn't get patches, you have to suck it up and deal with it," but the fact that patches exist and other flawed characters have been getting fixed means that I think it's fair for mains of characters like Samus and Zelda to ask for some help.

 

[Iddis]

For the last patch didn't people start looking for, finding, and posting the differences between the patches before it came out? If so are they doing the same for this one?

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

Remember to follow these steps in 2 days time

If only there was a way to actually bargan with Sakurai for Samus buffs.

 

[JAZZ_]

This will be me come tomorrow if the patch list reads
Samus - no changes

 

[Vyrnx]

for anyone who hasn't already read this, nairo played the patch and said no changes to zelda.
so... the low tiers getting saved for the last patch theory is looking bad.

 

[_gold_]

for anyone who hasn't already read this, nairo played the patch and said no changes to zelda.
so... the low tiers getting saved for the last patch theory is looking bad.

Yes, but does Sakurai even believe in high and low tiers? So maybe that doesn't hold much water.

 

[Vyrnx]

Yes, but does Sakurai even believe in high and low tiers? So maybe that doesn't hold much water.

Yeah i forgot that samus is the best character in the game for a sec there lulz sakurai
You're right though. Regardless, I'm excited for the patch.

 

[_gold_]

Yeah i forgot that samus is the best character in the game for a sec there lulz sakurai
You're right though. Regardless, I'm excited for the patch.

Well according to Sakurai, Samus was the best character during the time of the Invitational Tournament at E3.
As far as we know, Sakurai may still have that same viewpoint..

 

[White_Pointer]

Well according to Sakurai, Samus was the best character during the time of the Invitational Tournament at E3.
As far as we know, Sakurai may still have that same viewpoint..

I hope not. He's been to several tournaments in person now and seen the game played at high level, and not a single Samus has featured there. If he still has the viewpoint that Samus is the strongest character in the game...yeah I dunno.

Unless he's confusing Samus with Zero Suit...

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

I hope not. He's been to several tournaments in person now and seen the game played at high level, and not a single Samus has featured there. If he still has the viewpoint that Samus is the strongest character in the game...yeah I dunno.

Unless he's confusing Samus with Zero Suit...

There's times where I do believe that Sakurai honestly thinks Samus is good as she is and doesn't need any improvement.

In a few hours we'll know if that's changed. And did Nairo test anyone else besides ? I'm curious. How would i go about finding this information?

 

[JAZZ_]

No update as of 12:59 AM PST
Maybe later on?

 

[Hark17ball]

People are speculating 2pm EST or later. It's the 4th of Feb by then I believe

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

I think they usually release patches around 7-8 am their time, no? If so then a 4-5 pm (CST) release should be likely.

They're 15 hours ahead, so if it's an AM release then we should expect a mid afternoon release from 2-6 PM depending on where you're located.

 

[(A)]

For the last patch didn't people start looking for, finding, and posting the differences between the patches before it came out? If so are they doing the same for this one?

I hope they do it again
The channel is vitamin zk, btw.