Patch 1.1.3

[Top Boss]

I know the actual update is not out yet, but there are dataminers here that are figuring the new update out. If anyone knows of any legitimate changes that happened to Fox, then do me a favor by reporting them here. Thanks in advance.

 

[M@v]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-3-patch-notes-release-pending.425921/

Nothing found in the data mine as of yet.

 

[Watermarlon]

Someone check shine....I swear it got a buff but I might just be crazy

 

[colinies]

Someone check shine....I swear it got a buff but I might just be crazy

In what way?

 

[Wiley]

As a Fox player, he didn't really need that much. maybe a curve-able Fire Fox like Lucario's upB ;D
most of the patches (besides a few obvious heavy nerfs on the minority of the cast) seem to be focused on catching other fighters up rather than nerfing luckily.

 

[Top Boss]

Fox doesn't need any buff or nerf. He's perfect.

 

[luke_atyeo]

^ that

As a Fox player, he didn't really need that much. maybe a curve-able Fire Fox like Lucario's upB

he can already travel in 16 different directions and can pseudo curve his firefox by riding walls

 

[M@v]

I'd be shocked if you see any additional changes to Fox at this point. He's a complete character. Only thing I ever complaints about from non Fox players is how little end lag illusion has.

 

[Top Boss]

I could not find any Fox changes on my own by the way.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I played several games with Fox today and haven't noticed any changes.

 

[elmike]

Can somebody test if UAIR has the same KB?
I feel like it needs like 5% more for killing....

Fox doesn't need any buff or nerf. He's perfect.

-DTilt hitbox does not match the animation (the hitbox is smaller. This is an 'error').
-illusion hurtbox should be changed so it wont be extremely easy to punish when recovering to the ledge (this is by far my #1 wish).
-Nair hitbox could be a bit larger so it could be safe on shield (or Bair hitbox bigger so it could be easier to be safe on shield)
-Shine startup lag should be reduced a bit.
-Fsmash should kill earlier. Atm it has almost no use...
-Dthrow should generate a little bit more of hitstun(or different angle/KB) so it can combo better at more low/mid %

 

[Top Boss]

Can somebody test if UAIR has the same KB?
I feel like it needs like 5% more for killing....



-DTilt hitbox does not match the animation (the hitbox is smaller. This is an 'error').
-illusion hurtbox should be changed so it wont be extremely easy to punish when recovering to the ledge (this is by far my #1 wish).
-Nair hitbox could be a bit larger so it could be safe on shield (or Bair hitbox bigger so it could be easier to be safe on shield)
-Shine startup lag should be reduced a bit.
-Fsmash should kill earlier. Atm it has almost no use...
-Dthrow should generate a little bit more of hitstun(or different angle/KB) so it can combo better at more low/mid %

well duh. Of course he has some flaws. I just mean that his design and viability are perfect.

 

[Wiley]

^ that




he can already travel in 16 different directions and can pseudo curve his firefox by riding walls

I was semi joking but it's still one of the easiest recoveries to punish from below. Of course that is left to the player to mix up and be creative. It's just heavily telegraphed anywhere under the edge and pretty stuffable on reaction. I love fox as is though, don't get me wrong.

 

[Daddyflabburger]

frame 1 jump-cancellable shine is all i ask

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I want at least for the shine hitbox should come out when the animation does. I'm tired of trying to reflect a projectile at the last second only to see the shine graphic on me as I'm blasted away.

 

[Foster J.]

Fox is not perfect seriously, he gets combod to ****, has no amazing hitboxes, and very linear recovery that kills him.

I was expecting a small change, like another 3 frames less endlag on blaster, or maybe the removal of Usmash's sourspot / 2ndary hitbox that does ****.

Oh well.

 

[elmike]

well duh. Of course he has some flaws. I just mean that his design and viability are perfect.

If there are moves that have virtually no use (like Fmash), and has a recovery that even mid-level players can almost always punish, then he is by no means perfect... He may be top 10, but that doesnt mean he has pefect balance and that he doesnt need fixes.

 

[ItzzJak]

If there are moves that have virtually no use (like Fmash), and has a recovery that even mid-level players can almost always punish, then he is by no means perfect... He may be top 10, but that doesn't mean he has perfect balance and that he doesn't need fixes.

I wouldn't say F-Smash has 'no use'.
-It has heaps of range because Fox lunges forward
-It hits people that are hanging on the ledge (And a lot of people don't know about that so you'll be able to hit it)
-If someone's throwing out a lot of moves at you you can just throw out an F-smash and the range and priority will beat out their moves
-It's not the best kill move but it does kill and kills well when the opponent is close to the ledge
Fox's f-smash definitely isn't Fox's most useful move but it doesn't have 'virtually no use'

 

[ZeroJanitor]

If there are moves that have virtually no use (like Fmash), and has a recovery that even mid-level players can almost always punish, then he is by no means perfect... He may be top 10, but that doesnt mean he has pefect balance and that he doesnt need fixes.

He's not perfect in the sense that he couldn't be better, but he's perfect in the sense that he doesn't need to be better. Fox is already more than viable.

 

[G-Sword]

One of these things needs to happen with fox but if it hasn't happened yet highly doubt it will.

1. Fox really needs a kill throw atleast 160-170%... He is the only character in the game that doesn't have one at less than 200% or a set up to get the KO like shiek.

2. Needs real set up to get the kill. Bowser now has uthrow to uair kill set up that is guaranteed on fox. Shiek has many different ways to setups that are easy. Diddy has the nana and the dtilt to usmash. Dair/nair smash doesn't work anymore everyone that is just decent knows to tech it.

3. His smash attacks need to be stronger/ have more knockback to them. Fox has some of the easiest smash attacks to punish and there not nearly as strong as some others.

I don't want fox overpowered but he is lacking and has to work his butt off for almost every single kill while others can kill him easily, keep him off the stage fairly easily or spike him at low %. and fox's anti-recovery game is not great at all. He already has short range with his attacks and can't just nair someone at 150% and kill them like Luigi. Fought a campy megaman before got him to 260% fthrow him I'm the middle of the stage and basically it did nothing. What other character in the game has that problem.

 

[Top Boss]

He's not perfect in the sense that he couldn't be better, but he's perfect in the sense that he doesn't need to be better. Fox is already more than viable.

^This is what I meant. Thanks.
And Fox's forward smash is a good move. It kills earlier than up smash if you're at the edge of the stage, and it's really good to catch ladings, especially with a pivot.

 

[luke_atyeo]

If there are moves that have virtually no use (like Fmash)

yeah... fsmash is insanely useful as said above
I get a lot of fsmash kills

 

[elmike]

Given the big attack/defense weaknesses (no kills or kill setups out of throws, low weight, low range, poor approaching and getting combod very easy), i think at least recovery need to be better because even if we are very skilled we can do nothing to 'solve' that problem (not even if the other player is not very skilled). It even feels unfair because more than half the damage and/or more than half the kills most of the time comes when fox is trying to get on stage, and we cant do anything about it. That happens even at top level play (just observe when larry or megafox have problems its almost always because of that)

 

[dadominator8]

Fox doesn't need any buff or nerf. He's perfect.

I agree with that he is perfect

 

[Rikke]

I could go on an entire list of "Fixes" that would make fox "Perfect", I'll give you top tier, but Perfect? nah only person to receive that title was brawl meta knight.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I could go on an entire list of "Fixes" that would make fox "Perfect", I'll give you top tier, but Perfect? nah only person to receive that title was brawl meta knight.

I dont think he is saying fox is perfect as in fox is a character with literally no weakness's problems or areas where he needs improvement, I think he is saying fox is perfect as in fox is exactly the kind of character he should be, and he is at the exact spot in the tier list that he should be.
Fox being a strong but flawed character is good, and his strengths and flaws are exactly the right way and at the right amounts and it all comes together to a character that just feels right, pretty sure thats what he meant by perfect, and I almost agree with him.

I feel like if fox's kill power matched how easily/early he can die, that'd be nice, comboing someone up to high percent and then just not being able to break through their shield, and then finally getting an opening to land a back air on them near the ledge at 130% and somehow they still survive and then they kill you at 60% is pretty balls sometimes.

 

[Rikke]

I dont think he is saying fox is perfect as in fox is a character with literally no weakness's problems or areas where he needs improvement, I think he is saying fox is perfect as in fox is exactly the kind of character he should be, and he is at the exact spot in the tier list that he should be.
Fox being a strong but flawed character is good, and his strengths and flaws are exactly the right way and at the right amounts and it all comes together to a character that just feels right, pretty sure thats what he meant by perfect, and I almost agree with him.

I feel like if fox's kill power matched how easily/early he can die, that'd be nice, comboing someone up to high percent and then just not being able to break through their shield, and then finally getting an opening to land a back air on them near the ledge at 130% and somehow they still survive and then they kill you at 60% is pretty balls sometimes.

Oh yea definitely, Fox is a GREAT character , I consider him on par with Sheik when he is played to maximum capacity.I was just referring to small things that bug me about him like
-no reliable kill throw
-slightly too little damage on his moves (all of his moves from Brawl to smash 4 were reduced by 1 % each.... why????)
-Too much endlag on upsmash
-shine having next to no knockback whatso ever
-Blaster needs just 2-3 less frames of lag
-having 3 aerials that have over 20 frames of landing lag if not autocanceled
-upthrow has no hitstun
-shine isn't frame 1 or frame 2 (I'LL TAKE FRAME 3 JUST GIVE ME A GOOD SHINE SAKURAI!!!!!!)
-did I mention shine yet? cause it does 2 damage ONLY WHEN FRESH!!!! yeah could it plz do like...3 damage?
Small things like that.....or would that be broken?

 

[luke_atyeo]

if fox was exactly how he is right now, but also had reliable kill throws, that would push him to #1 character in the game easily, it might seem like a small change but it would totally blow the character up to OP levels.

 

[Rikke]

Then pick like 1-3 of those changes that would keep him balanced, but at least fixes some of his problems. IMO those things are the only thing I think fox has a problem with, don't get me wrong I still our furry space cadet, but those things up there, those are what matter.

(Okay can he at least get a kill mix-up throw like sheik has with down-throw?)

 

[TrashWizard]

frame 1 jump-cancellable shine is all i ask

It would probably make him top tier, as you can get all kinds of crap out of tech chases with fox, If everyone low tier had an override to make them 'top tier' level, I would hazard a guess that fox might get a faster shine and stronger lasers.
Thats just a very distant dream though, Project 4 has yet to release


And if it does, pls no wavedash, make unique game, not melee 3