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Panhandle Brawlfest, Tallahassee: Upgraded

KBM

Smash Ace
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Jun 28, 2008
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668
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raccoon city
Hey tournament goers, I felt like throwing a little thought out there for you guys to mull over.

I'm in the process of home-brewing my wii to be trip-free in Brawl, and I can certainly bring my wii to the next brawlfest. I can't imagine any nay-sayers to this idea, but if any of you have a problem with a slip-free brawl copy at the next tourney, say so.

I realize there will probably be some "hey i wanna play on the one without slipping" going on, and if you think this will be a serious problem, then, again, say so here.
 

Mankosuki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Messages
2,978
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P-Cola Florida
NNID
Mankosuki
3DS FC
1977-0214-1670
Mine already has the no tripping code on. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to find some other people's with it disabled either. The question is, would we have enough for the whole tourney?
 

GDX

Smash Hero
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Jan 6, 2005
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9,428
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Orlando, FL
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GameDragonX2
not this again...

hacks are fine for playing for the lolz, but dont bring that crap into the tourney scene. frankly, its dumb

you should use more time putting more useful hacks on your wii, like the hack to play import games so you can buy Tatsunoko vs Capcom
 

Jssn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
286
Location
tallahassee,fl
not this again...

hacks are fine for playing for the lolz, but dont bring that crap into the tourney scene. frankly, its dumb

I agree with you to a certain point. I do think that hacks should be for lolz, but this One only emphazises on RANDOM TRIPS (your diddy will be fine =) ), which usually allways work against us no matter what the situation is.
Allthough is part of the game, most players complain about random tripping so i think if all of us decide to add this hack into the wiis for tournament play i think it should b allowed.
 

GDX

Smash Hero
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Orlando, FL
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GameDragonX2
I agree with you to a certain point. I do think that hacks should be for lolz, but this One only emphazises on RANDOM TRIPS (your diddy will be fine =) ), which usually allways work against us no matter what the situation is.
Allthough is part of the game, most players complain about random tripping so i think if all of us decide to add this hack into the wiis for tournament play i think it should b allowed.
as ginger has correctly said many many many many many many many times...

play the game for what it is. dont go hacking it until you think its perfect. If you dont like something about the game enough to hack it out, then why are you still playing the game in the first place? Just stop if you really cant handle it that much

none of that is directed at you personally, jssn, but you see what im saying
 

Lizard

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
566
Location
Tallahassee
I don't see a downside to the non-tripping hack being involved in PHB.

while it not as though it is a necessity and HAS to be added, there are no real downsides. Tripping can be a pain, but doesn't by any means make the game unplayable.

i'll put in my support for eliminating trips, even though i do see your point GDX. we have all adapted to accept tripping, and its not the worst thing ever made, but playing without it would take one more worry to away from the players.
 

Lizard

Smash Ace
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566
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Tallahassee
BTW, Tripping into snake's mortar in a make or break moment, causing you to lose the match, thats gotta suck!

i'm looking at you mike ;)
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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Jun 28, 2008
Messages
668
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raccoon city
we're not going to hack it until it's perfect, GDX. it's only to eliminate tripping. tripping in brawl is nothing more than utter and absolute NONSENSE. the elimination of tripping is a 100% BONUS. if you have a logical argument in support of tripping, go for it.

I say tripping is about as fair as having smash balls on. it's potentially a free-win for one of the players, completely independent of the skill levels of each player. just like items. SBR got rid of items because they're too random. lylat cruise is a counterpick because it's unpredictable. 75m is illegal because it would make the fight unfair. i contest that completely random tripping (and possibly dying as a result) is just as unfair as beam swords, bobombs, and 75m.
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
we're not going to hack it until it's perfect, GDX. it's only to eliminate tripping. tripping in brawl is nothing more than utter and absolute NONSENSE. the elimination of tripping is a 100% BONUS. if you have a logical argument in support of tripping, go for it.
^
play the game for what it is. dont go hacking it until you think its perfect. If you dont like something about the game enough to hack it out, then why are you still playing the game in the first place? Just stop if you really cant handle it that much
I say tripping is about as fair as having smash balls on. it's potentially a free-win for one of the players, completely independent of the skill levels of each player. just like items. SBR got rid of items because they're too random. lylat cruise is a counterpick because it's unpredictable. 75m is illegal because it would make the fight unfair. i contest that completely random tripping (and possibly dying as a result) is just as unfair as beam swords, bobombs, and 75m.
Exaggerating. Massively. Smash balls are a guaranteed stock for most characters, sometimes two stocks in the case of Sonic and Falco. Tripping actually has a chance to make a move miss that would have killed you and players of low skill are likely to not capitalize on the downtime your character has. I trip a lot in tournament and I can't remember ever being punished for it except once, and that was against darktemplio's toon link when he had a stock lead anyways. The truth is, if tripping is really such a big problem (1/100 each time you start a run in either direction, including pivots) then don't run so much. Every character in this game can benefit from simply shffl'ing across the stage and it's not often that you absolutely MUST run. There's always walking as well.

Lylat is a counterpick in Tally. It isn't unpredictable. It tilts in a distinct timed pattern that will rarely gimp someone who thinks ahead and compensates.
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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Messages
668
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raccoon city
so Orfn and GDX, confirm this for me, you would rather have tripping than not have tripping? if sakurai had decided to not include tripping, it wouldn't be as good a game?
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
so Orfn and GDX, confirm this for me, you would rather have tripping than not have tripping? if sakurai had decided to not include tripping, it wouldn't be as good a game?
Yes, I would rather have tripping than not tripping. And the point is that without tripping, it isn't the game. The game is what it is and it should be played that way. Tripping is a relatively major part of mobility in the game and should be left as is.

GDX and I both agree that tripping is stupid. Yeah, skilled swordsmen, special forces, and otherworldly fighters shouldn't randomly fall flat on their faces when they run. But the game is what it is. Is it fair that Captain Falcon has less priority with all his moves than almost any move in the game? Is it fair that Peach can pull out a stitch-face turnip? Is it fair that Luigi can misfire and kill you with an otherwise terrible move?

On a side note, arguing this makes me feel old.
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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not 3 minutes ago i played a match against LS online, and he tripped at 0% on the big white ghosty guy at yoshi's island as it was falling, and brought him to his death.

this is acceptable?

this is not the same as a free stock from a smash ball?
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
That is acceptable. He should have simply jumped from the platform since running was entirely unnecessary. Wifi is gay, and LS seems to have a habit of being ***** by the stage...

It isn't even close to the same.
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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those are all character specific mechanics and are completely avoidable. tripping cannot be stopped. if someone picks peach, you know she has a chance to get the zombie or a bobomb, and you can see the animation coming. you cannot see a trip coming. they're totally different. same with luigi's missile and g&W's 9 hammer.

and i have to ask, would you choose to not come to a trip free brawl tournament? that's not an ultimatum, im just curious
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
It doesn't matter because they occur the same way. Character specific mechanics and tripping are both mechanics triggered on a random number roll by player input. When you move the control stick to make your character run, you commit to the chance of tripping the same way you commit to pulling a stitch or causing a misfire. Tripping is 100% avoidable.

I would come, though I would find it awkward and strange that everyone found it necessary this late into the metagame. It's a matter of ethics.
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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100% avoidable? come on. you would have to ONLY jump for the whole game. or just stand in place. or i guess glide toss. funny enough these 3 strategies work for gmoney, you, and gdx.
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
199
100% avoidable? come on. you would have to ONLY jump for the whole game. or just stand in place. or i guess glide toss. funny enough these 3 strategies work for gmoney, you, and gdx.
Or walk. And the three of us are good players right? Shouldn't that say something to the rest of you guys? There are reasons behind why people do things.

You don't have to avoid tripping 100%, but you can cut down the risk a LOT by not running excessively.
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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i guess.

and i was just relating your 3 characters to those 3 specific strategies. you play rob right? :S
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
ROB, Captain Falcon, and G&W. Admittedly, it is easy to run less with ROB though I do it occasionally as a measured risk to set up for certain things. With Falcon I run much more frequently but even then I try to shorthop-fastfall close to my opponents, then walk the step or two I need to do something else or stutter-step my fsmash, charge a dsmash (against charging opponents). G&W admittedly just hops around nonstop, but I do have to run in order to tech chase the downthrow (which is my favorite thing ever).

It's all situational really, but any character should be able to reduce their running by a lot by applying different mobility techniques.
 

SlitThroat1010

Smash Journeyman
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May 3, 2006
Messages
358
I don't think it's right to hack a fighting game's mechanics in a tournament setting. I don't think it's right to hack a fighting game's mechanics in a tournament setting on only some of the stations. I don't think it's right to hack a fighting game's mechanics in a tournament setting on only some of the stations when the best players are playing with and around the mechanic very effectively.

I've been saved by tripping's invincibility frames more than I've been hit because of it.

Why do people run so much when there are more and better options out of a walk anyway. THAT's the real conundrum.
 

Lawlmahbawls

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 18, 2008
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Palm Coast, FL
Hacking the game to take out tripping would have no adverse effects. You would get rid of something that immediately puts you at a disadvantage for just TRYING to move. Brawl is just a game of trading hits back and forth, it's all 50/50 when you are just standing there. But when there is a chance of moving causing you to be at a disadvantage, that is bull****. Tech chasing becomes risky because slipping could easily cost you any advantage you had right then. Punishing becomes risky because you could trip and lost that chance at a gimp/kill. Running to the other side of the stage becomes risky. It is a completely ******* mechanic.

Nobody is forcing ANYONE here to play with the tripping code on. But EVERYONE is forced to play with tripping. If you don't want to play with the code, then just say such and BAM. No problem. If we want to play with the code on, then it is our choice to do such. It is our choice on how we play the game, if you are saying 'no hacking ruins the game, play it how it was made' You are sounding exactly like scrubs at Melee who cry about L canceling and Wavedashing.

Seriously, I can't believe that someone said that they would rather have a Brawl with tripping in it. :\
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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raccoon city
there is a definitive difference between "hack" and "glitch", but LS (lawlmahbawls) has a great point. Melee wasn't "meant to be played" with L cancelling and wavedashing, but people do those things anyway because they make the game better; they make the game more competitive.
 

SlitThroat1010

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
358
L canceling was coded into melee and for all intents and purposes was how it was 'meant to be played'. Wavedashing on the other hand was an exploitable glitch that happened to revolutionize the game. Note that in both cases, neither requires anything more than basic player input.

Compare that to the removal of tripping, which doesn't have the 'meant to be played' sticker, nor does it bring about any revolutionary change to the game. Furthermore, the fact that it requires modifications to the game system (as opposed to a simple and skillful input on the player's part) makes it impossible or at least difficult to standardize for all stations in a tournament, which is important. It's a bad idea.
 

Lawlmahbawls

Smash Journeyman
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But the thing is, we don't have to apply it to every station. As KBM said in the first post, he is bringin his and wanted to see if there were any objections and if anyone else had it.

Once again, no one would force you to play on it. You have the OPTION of playing with tripping off.
 

SlitThroat1010

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
358
What happens when one player wants it on and one wants it off? I understand that when two players agree to do something together despite the standard tournament rules, that's fair game. But when one wants to follow the standard and the other the hack, I hope that they play on the standard together.
 

KBM

Smash Ace
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raccoon city
i think that's fair. if one player wants tripping on, that should take precedence over using the hack.
 

D_B_S

Smash Lord
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Tallahassee,FL
OVERALL TRIPPING HACKS IS NOT FINNA HAPPEN AT PHB

SO NO NEED OF EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT IT

work on yall air game

1
 

SlitThroat1010

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
358
In its place, he has a broken ground game of tilts that coincidentally are only able to be used out of a walk.
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
Hacking the game to take out tripping would have no adverse effects. You would get rid of something that immediately puts you at a disadvantage for just TRYING to move. Brawl is just a game of trading hits back and forth, it's all 50/50 when you are just standing there. But when there is a chance of moving causing you to be at a disadvantage, that is bull****. Tech chasing becomes risky because slipping could easily cost you any advantage you had right then. Punishing becomes risky because you could trip and lost that chance at a gimp/kill. Running to the other side of the stage becomes risky. It is a completely ******* mechanic.

Nobody is forcing ANYONE here to play with the tripping code on. But EVERYONE is forced to play with tripping. If you don't want to play with the code, then just say such and BAM. No problem. If we want to play with the code on, then it is our choice to do such. It is our choice on how we play the game, if you are saying 'no hacking ruins the game, play it how it was made' You are sounding exactly like scrubs at Melee who cry about L canceling and Wavedashing.

Seriously, I can't believe that someone said that they would rather have a Brawl with tripping in it. :\
lol, you completely ignored every single post I made. Hacking the game to take out tripping is exactly like hacking melee to take out hit stun. Hit stun is what made it possible to do one-hit = death combo with so many characters in Melee. As stated already by Slit/Groceries, tripping also provides a chance to be SAVED by the invincibility frames, and once you hit the ground you can almost immediately roll away.

-Brawl is nowhere NEAR 50/50 if you just stand there. Do you even play this game?
-Running puts you at a risk. A 1/100 risk. And that's just the theoretical risk of tripping. The risk of actually being punished by tripping, at a guess, is more like 1/5000. This assumes you were stupid enough to attempt running somewhere near your opponent.
-Tech chasing isn't risky. I do almost 6 dthrows in a row with G&W on a regular basis. If you trip, then you go back to a neutral situation. Big deal.
-Losing the chance to gimp isn't risky either. Most of the time you can gimp by walking off the edge and rolling the control stick towards the stage to grab the ledge.
-Playing with some consoles on no-trip and some with trip provides an imbalanced tournament environment, and if you don't see how you're stupid and should just stop breathing.

L-cancels and wavedashing weren't hacks at all, which makes you the melee scrub. In an interview Sakurai admitted that both mechanics were intentional but he never knew people would implement them so effectively.

I'm not the only one arguing this. It seems all the good players support tripping because it's the game. The game is what it is. Snake has broken tilts and MK has insane priority and Marth has a tipper effect on every move (buffed from previous tipper effects). Then there's Captain Falcon's complete lack of priority on any move. His Falcon Punch can cancel to another Falcon's jab. Yeah, all of these things are terrible. But that's how it is, so just play it and stop whining like a little 12-year old Galo tard.

Also, xyz. I challenge your Ike with my Falcon. I'd prefer just friendlies though...
 

Orfn

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
199
That's my style =)

edit: to be fair, he attacked my argument without even knowing my argument. It's annoying when people jump in a conversation and ignore everything said previously
 
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