Palutena's Frame Data [Deleted]

[KuroganeHammer]

I've always said that move was bad

 

[BJN39]

I've always said that move was bad

'Cuz it is, and you're smarT.

 

[Lavani]

tl;dr version - dair hits on frame 10 and only frame 10, with a dinky hitbox

 

[KuroganeHammer]

extra tl;dr - it's BAD

 

[Centicerise]

Regarding Palutena's reflect, is there a certain damage threshold where it "breaks" after being reflected back and forth too many times?

 

[Rashid]

Regarding Palutena's reflect, is there a certain damage threshold where it "breaks" after being reflected back and forth too many times?

I don't know about it specifically, but one of the loading screen tips states that, generally, projectiles that do over 50 damage will not be reflected. Or something? It was quick so I couldn't read it, but that's the general idea.

...assuming I understood your question right.

 

[Lavani]

7f standing grab, 9f dash grab, 10f pivot grab

Tied for 2nd fastest standing/dash grab speed, I haven't really looked at pivot grab data yet

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Lavani help me make a grab list, PM me if yaw interested

 

[KuroganeHammer]

What are Zeldawfuls?

Bad, bad, really bad.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

But better than Brawl?

Also can you link me to your walk/run speed chart?
And any other charts you have done?

http://smashboards.com/threads/character-attributes-directory.384665/

Here ya go, a list of all important rankings!

 

[BJN39]

The neglect Paletuna gets is kinda sad.
she's so unpopular, and I have so many questions

How fast is d smash?
Any faster than f smash/u smash?
Because I once was able to use it as a out of shield option(http://youtu.be/0rvtstcGx0Q?t=1m27s), but I have a feeling this only works on laggy moves.
She desperately needs more out of shield options, preferably something that hits behind/above her.

This board is full of people saying she moves the same speed as Fox, people telling me to spam reflect and people recommending using her tilts.
We really need smart people for Paletuna her boards.
At least for one thread
@ BJN39 @ KuroganeHammer @ Lavani pls

Remember, I don't get Tag alerts. Quite because of yew in fact.

I'll get the Dsmash/Fsmash number in a second...

Edit : Got the numbers:

Fsmash : 18
Usmash : 18
Dsmash : 17

So... A 1 frame difference. They both kinda stink frame-wise. Also, LOL, Ftilt hits on frame 17 as well. xD

I should also note the full range of Dsmash comes out 1 frame later.

Edit 2 : As for the Dsmash OoS gimmick, it appears it should work on super lag attacks, but probably not the common dash attack, unfortunately.

 

[faderpotater]

Just adding to any current data on the invincibility on palutena's dash attack.

Believe it is full as when I was playing a ditto with my friend I used palutena's up smash as he was above me on a platform. He dash attacked and the beam went through him but didn't hit. The shield appeared to be outside the beam the whole time.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes, it's just full body invincibility, which is quite rare.

 

[faderpotater]

Quick thought, would the invincibility cause little macs ko punch to whiff or would the animation play?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It will hit but she will take no damage.

 

[faderpotater]

That could prove hilarious against opponents unfamiliar with the mu.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I grabbed little mac out of ko punch before and flew across the stage

 

[Lavani]

I had two instances yesterday where I was starting to run away from a Mac when he KO Punched and the windbox shoved me across and off the stage before the punch even connected.

It'd be really funny if you could just consistently dodge KO Punch by starting to move away from Mac when he starts it.

 

[faderpotater]

I think ko punch is a boon and a curse. Some people may make poor choices because they are allured by the prospect of a ko punch.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm too scared to get near lil mac with a KO punch, let alone grab him..

go on the offensive and bash the KO punch out of him

don't run around waiting for him to miss because he's forcing you into making bad decisions

 

[KuroganeHammer]

stand at a ledge and hope he's dumb enough to let you back throw him

 

[faderpotater]

I haven't been able to try it recently but I want to try and use AR while jumping to force little Mac to either get hit by it or jump into the air where he is weakest. May be too slow against little Mac though. Have to test and see.

 

[κomıc]

I wish her side-taunt had a hit box. Make the tip of her feet be a sweet spot.

 

[Rashid]

Something to note about uair (until the frame data's there): It seems to have some IASA/FAF frames. I can't really explain it, but I did notice it when experimenting with its landing lag.

It seems you need about 1.5 jumps to do the full hit of uair and land without any lag (she spins a bit after attacking, and landing before it finishes incurs the lag). However, it seems you can interrupt this spin halfway through with any other aerial or special move to reduce landing lag. This can be done out of a full hop uair: You'd normally incur the landing lag, but you can sneak in another attack just before landing to replace/negate it. This is sort of like cancelling air dodges with aerials or special moves to bypass the air dodge landing lag.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Theyre called auto cancel frames

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Auto-canceling

 

[Lavani]

Something to note about uair (until the frame data's there): It seems to have some IASA/FAF frames. I can't really explain it, but I did notice it when experimenting with its landing lag.

It seems you need about 1.5 jumps to do the full hit of uair and land without any lag (she spins a bit after attacking, and landing before it finishes incurs the lag). However, it seems you can interrupt this spin halfway through with any other aerial or special move to reduce landing lag. This can be done out of a full hop uair: You'd normally incur the landing lag, but you can sneak in another attack just before landing to replace/negate it. This is sort of like cancelling air dodges with aerials or special moves to bypass the air dodge landing lag.

The autocancel for uair is <3f 63f>, its FAF seems to be around 52f.

Fair's probably the best bet for cancelling its landing lag, its early autocancel window is 1-3f (sadly the best Palutena has to offer) but it only has 12f landing lag so it's not too costly to botch.

 

[Rashid]

The autocancel for uair is <3f 63f>, its FAF seems to be around 52f.

Fair's probably the best bet for cancelling its landing lag, its early autocancel window is 1-3f (sadly the best Palutena has to offer) but it only has 12f landing lag so it's not too costly to botch.

This is what I was looking for. Thanks! And you can use a special to bypass the landing lag as well, but I guess that's more situational.
Sorry if you misunderstood my point, @ KuroganeHammer .

 

[F.u.j.i.n Souls 2]

Still waiTing on this to be finished.....

 

[Bizbang]

Really excited to see what is discovered in the unveiling of these hitboxes. Thank you so much for the work you're putting into this Kurogane.

 

[JayWon]

How does Lightweight affect the Frame Data? Specifically her Jab. What's her frame data for Jab when in Lightweight?

 

[Lavani]

How does Lightweight affect the Frame Data? Specifically her Jab. What's her frame data for Jab when in Lightweight?

The exact same. Lightweight only affects movement speeds, not attack speeds.

 

[JayWon]

The exact same. Lightweight only affects movement speeds, not attack speeds.

Wow. I swear her tilts all feel much faster when she's in Lightweight. Thanks!

 

[JayWon]

The exact same. Lightweight only affects movement speeds, not attack speeds.

Okay I just read from ADHD's custom move discussion post stating that Lightweight shortens the endlag of her moves. Is this true? So start up frame data is unaffected but her moves finish quicker?

 

[Rashid]

That doesn't sound true at all. Considering how anti-customs ADHD is, I wouldn't exactly believe everything he says.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

definitely untrue

 

[JayWon]

Can we also get frame data on her Dash stopping

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Updated the OP.

Input appreciated.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Updated the OP.

Input appreciated.

Was that picture just added? It looks nice. If you're asking about the picture,

weight should be a little lower, it looks about dead center right now instead of 35-40% of the way

I think power (killpower) is important enough to be added as its own category. Offense being how good she is at things like approaching/rush down/aggression. Similar to how defense and weight are separated. Having an average offense lacks the detail that she has some very strong moves despite not being a really aggressive character.

Also I think zoning is fine. She doesn't want people to be right up to her, which is what I would think of in a pure turtler (doesn't care about stage control or approaching the opponent). She's defensive and wants to keep them out but that happens at the ideal mid-distance, which is covered by the archetype "zoning".

I would argue that "rush down" should be attributed to her no less than "turtling", especially if we're talking about customs on. So either zoning/rush down or just zoning is enough.

I think visual wise, it looks great though!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Was that picture just added? It looks nice. If you're asking about the picture,

weight should be a little lower, it looks about dead center right now instead of 35-40% of the way

I think power (killpower) is important enough to be added as its own category. Offense being how good she is at things like approaching/rush down/aggression. Similar to how defense and weight are separated. Having an average offense lacks the detail that she has some very strong moves despite not being a really aggressive character.

Also I think zoning is fine. She doesn't want people to be right up to her, which is what I would think of in a pure turtler (doesn't care about stage control or approaching the opponent). She's defensive and wants to keep them out but that happens at the ideal mid-distance, which is covered by the archetype "zoning".

I would argue that "rush down" should be attributed to her no less than "turtling", especially if we're talking about customs on. So either zoning/rush down or just zoning is enough.

I think visual wise, it looks great though!

I meant about the link, but this works also.

The picture is mainly just for fun, but a couple of the stats (weight and speed) have had each characters weight tiered and speed averaged with weights as a statistic

Weight: 10=128, 9=122-115, 8=112-106, 7=104-98, 6=97-96, 5=95-89, 4=85-80, 3=79-77, 2=75, 1=68

As you can see here. 95 is the mean of all the characters, so it starts as the 95 point (robin) and goes down to 89 (Peach). The next weight is a whole 4 points less at Sheik/Zelda, so that's where 4 starts.

If that makes sense.

Kind of agree about turtling, I may change this.

Offense is just an amalgamation of camping, KO potential, safety on shield, damage output, shield pressure, attack speed, but I ran out of colours to make kill power a separate catagory =P

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I meant about the link, but this works also.

The picture is mainly just for fun, but a couple of the stats (weight and speed) have had each characters weight tiered and speed averaged with weights as a statistic

Weight: 10=128, 9=122-115, 8=112-106, 7=104-98, 6=97-96, 5=95-89, 4=85-80, 3=79-77, 2=75, 1=68

As you can see here. 95 is the mean of all the characters, so it starts as the 95 point (robin) and goes down to 89 (Peach). The next weight is a whole 4 points less at Sheik/Zelda, so that's where 4 starts.

If that makes sense.

Kind of agree about turtling, I may change this.

Offense is just an amalgamation of camping, KO potential, safety on shield, damage output, shield pressure, attack speed, but I ran out of colours to make kill power a separate catagory =P

Oh, I guess measuring the weight in that sense works too. I've always thought of it relative to the # of characters heavier or lighter, but if it was relative then it wouldn't properly represent the weight differences (the range between heaviest to average is the same as average to lowest).

About the offense, lol fair enough XP


The link looks great. Most beautiful chart I've seen for smash bros character data. I also see it looks like you may be making that for every character eventually. The glossary page with all the characters listed in square icons looks really professional.