Palutena Changes in Patch 1.11

[Re4gNarsil]

Alright, so this might be jumping to conclusions, but given the arrival of new stage(s) and the length of time since the last update it stands to reason Smash 4 might be updated to 1.11 at midnight or so; if that's the case I want to waste no time in creating a place to easily find info on how the beautiful goddess of light is different from patch 1.10 (if she is altered at all that is). I'll personally be up at 4 a.m. or a little after to check out the game for myself to see if these is truly an update and the changes that take place if there is. I have all the data on damage and such from patch 1.10 at the ready, as well as a good grasp on how her throws and combos work, so the one thing I may need help with is frame data if any of that changes.

As usual, let’s make this topic ONLY for patch notes from the newest patch for this specific character, rather than mixing it with other things.

If you can CONFIRM a change please do so; if it is an SPECULATED change make sure it is labeled as such, and ask someone else to verify (if anyone has the previous version to compare to you are encouraged to do so

Try to scan all previous entries for information before posting just to be sure everything is as correct and organized as possible; edit your posts rather than spamming.

Have fun, and get hyped!

 

[Maraphy]

I was just gonna make a post about this before people start talking about it,

if it is an SPECULATED change make sure it is labeled as such

^ please do this. Don't post a "confirmed change" unless you have tested it on an updated game and an unupdated game and can see a clear difference.

 

[kmpyj]

Guys.......I think the infinite lightweight exploit is gone. I'm not completely 100% sure, but I haven't been able to perform it in patch 1.1.1. So either I'm messing up, or.....

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

**** now that customs are like all RIP, they are balancing custom moves lol

I wonder if this has anything to do with them wanting us to use custom moves at tournaments or if custom moves were just lower on the priority of receiving attention

anyway no changes to palu's defaults as confirmed by thinkaman, QQ, but at least others are getting nerfed

 

[Re4gNarsil]

Well, I for one am kinda glad the glitch is gone. What I'm not glad about is everything else staying the same as far as I can tell *sighs* Why oh why Sakurai could you not improve your own character in some way?

 

[Dinoman96]

Well, I for one am kinda glad the glitch is gone. What I'm not glad about is everything else staying the same as far as I can tell *sighs* Why oh why Sakurai could you not improve your own character in some way?

Like I said before, the character was designed and balanced with custom moves in mind, so he probably thinks she's good enough with them on.

At the very least, customs apparently being balanced might give them a shot of being revisited in tournies.

 

[PHP]

"Speculated change"
You can react faster out of down throw

Up throw is now a combo throw (low percentage)

Fair has even less landing lag

Forward throw increased to 9%

Forward and down smash feel a tad faster

Jab feels faster, but jab juggling is gone

Grabs feel faster (like Sheik fast)

Down tilt looks like hit has a more slanted angle

Fair has more kbg (kills at the ledge at 140%)

 

[TheRealPalutena]

"Speculated change"
You can react faster out of down throw

Up throw is now a combo throw (low percentage)

Fair has even less landing lag

Forward throw increased to 9%

Forward and down smash feel a tad faster

Jab feels faster, but jab juggling is gone

Grabs feel faster (like Sheik fast)

Down tilt looks like hit has a more slanted angle

Fair has more kbg (kills at the ledge at 140%)

Going to go test some of this now. Will let you know if I can confirm or find anything new.

 

[ShiroSSB]

Going to go test some of this now. Will let you know if I can confirm or find anything new.

These waifu buffs are delicious.

 

[Tailisu10]

Rest in Peace, infinite prince.

 

[PHP]

When's the next patch? October?

 

[ShiroSSB]

When's the next patch? October?

Either october 3rd, or later in the year for the ballot winner to the ballot character's data has yet to be mined.

 

[Maraphy]

Yeah, seems like the only change was the removal of the lightweight glitch. You can really tell they were putting all this customs balance off for later since that seemed like an obvious one to fix. I think people could agree that was an inevitable bug fix.

This entire patch could be thought of as a slight "buff" to palutena though; with all of these customs balance changes (and maybe there's more in the future) custom tournaments may see the light of day again, and Palutena is already considered a huge threat there.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

"Speculated change"
You can react faster out of down throw

Up throw is now a combo throw (low percentage)

Fair has even less landing lag

Forward throw increased to 9%

Forward and down smash feel a tad faster

Jab feels faster, but jab juggling is gone

Grabs feel faster (like Sheik fast)

Down tilt looks like hit has a more slanted angle

Fair has more kbg (kills at the ledge at 140%)

Alright, now that I'm back from work and have the time to really study the angles and frames (as well as I can since I don't have a second platform on patch 1.10 to compare to), I have been trying to detect any small changes there may be; I think most things suggested so far are not accurate, plus I feel in my gut some of things I think I may be seeing is just my imagination, but here's what I've got so far.

First off, forward throw already did 9% in 1.10, and I feel the knockback and trajectories when she throws are the same.

All aerial attacks feel the same to me in terms of start-up speed, although I want to say chaining attacks in the air is a tad easier now (that is speculation).

Jab seems untouched, and I can still juggle just fine.

Grab does feel faster, and reaction time out of grab may be better. Down throw to up-air may work better now.

As for the custom moves thing, I'm all for customs and I like seeing them receiving attention. It may be what's needed to get the majority of players to want them in tournaments, but to be honest I'm doubting it. But hey, even if it only improves friendly matches it's cool to see. I just was hoping to see more default things like reflect improved a little.

 

[Dinoman96]

Mentioned this in another thread, but in Tourney Mode, there's now 1v1 Custom Glory brackets that only allow for custom specials, disabling equipment. If you wanna play Custom Palutena in an even remotely competitive environment, for the time being just play these.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

Mentioned this in another thread, but in Tourney Mode, there's now 1v1 Custom Glory brackets that only allow for custom specials, disabling equipment. If you wanna play Custom Palutena in an even remotely competitive environment, for the time being just play these.

Dude, that news just made my day; thank you Sakurai for adding that! That could perhaps be what customs need to be taken seriously in the future.

Edited: Don't get me wrong, I can still play Palutena in default and defeat most people, but having the option to play with her custom moves is amazing.

 

[PHP]

She needs so many buffs on her default set...maybe next patch in October?

 

[Dinoman96]

Guys, I think Explosive Flame can no longer hit people out of their shield. Tried it against a friend and it doesn't seem to work anymore.

 

[TheRealPalutena]

Don't seem like they changed anything with her really. But with the added Shield stun she is a lil bit safer on block now.

 

[TastyCarcass]

How does the shield pressure effect our princess?

I've read that all shield stun has increased by 5 frames. Means that it's safer to approach with fair (or even nair) on shield

But I'm wondering about how this effects jab.
Usually the jab-multihit can be a good mixup to catch spotdodges, but if they catch you out and you do the multi hit on shield, they can wait for the final hit and punish.

Is the final hit safe on shield now? Even if it isn't, they could SDI towards you for the punish, but a lot of players may not respond in that way.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

How does the shield pressure effect our princess?

I've read that all shield stun has increased by 5 frames. Means that it's safer to approach with fair (or even nair) on shield

But I'm wondering about how this effects jab.
Usually the jab-multihit can be a good mixup to catch spotdodges, but if they catch you out and you do the multi hit on shield, they can wait for the final hit and punish.

Is the final hit safe on shield now? Even if it isn't, they could SDI towards you for the punish, but a lot of players may not respond in that way.

Since it's across the board I doubt we'll benefit from it much more than anyone else in terms of the jab (especially since I typically use it to juggle or lead into grab anyway), but I do wonder if this'll make up-tilt a safer option.

For what it's worth, at least Nairo has said he barely notices the difference in most fights; I reckon we'll need to wait until Bighouse to know how it effects high skill matches.

Edited: Actually, for that matter all Palutena's tilts may now be better options since they all are multi hit and can push away opponents a little if blocked. I just hope the characters with insanely fast jabs like Captain Falcon don't benefit the most from this.

 

[TastyCarcass]

It'll help with fair and normal jab, since it's quite strong for a jab, but I do think that it may make the game a little bit harder for us, since we won't be able to shield grab as easily.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

It'll help with fair and normal jab, since it's quite strong for a jab, but I do think that it may make the game a little bit harder for us, since we won't be able to shield grab as easily.

True, but the grab is quick enough and has a good reach so I don't think it'll be much of a hindrance. And after watching Nairo and ZeRo play some friendly matches recently I must say I can barely tell the difference, although to be fair they power shield most of each other's attacks lol. I'm thinking when all's said and done it's going to change the way the game is played but won't affect tier lists much at all.

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

Since it's across the board I doubt we'll benefit from it much more than anyone else in terms of the jab (especially since I typically use it to juggle or lead into grab anyway), but I do wonder if this'll make up-tilt a safer option.

For what it's worth, at least Nairo has said he barely notices the difference in most fights; I reckon we'll need to wait until Bighouse to know how it effects high skill matches.

Edited: Actually, for that matter all Palutena's tilts may now be better options since they all are multi hit and can push away opponents a little if blocked. I just hope the characters with insanely fast jabs like Captain Falcon don't benefit the most from this.

You're going to have to wait until after Big House. They're using 1.1.0 there.

 

[lRasha]

Question. If people who play Palutena are getting good results on For Glory (and perhaps other modes), would that influence Sakurai and the team to not buff her? I think about Wii Fit Trainer who is another character I like. For awhile, she didn't get significant buffs. She FINALLY got a good buff on one of the last few updates (can't remember which one). I'm not sure how her results were before that buff. This is just something I thought about.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

Question. If people who play Palutena are getting good results on For Glory (and perhaps other modes), would that influence Sakurai and the team to not buff her? I think about Wii Fit Trainer who is another character I like. For awhile, she didn't get significant buffs. She FINALLY got a good buff on one of the last few updates (can't remember which one). I'm not sure how her results were before that buff. This is just something I thought about.

Online results is part of it, and honestly I think she isn't all that good in terms of online win percentage last I saw although that was awhile ago. Sakurai also does watch large tournament results like EVO from what I hear, and everyone needs to keep in mind he tries to make fighters somewhat balanced in both 2 player, 4 player, and even 6 or 8 player smash, so if a character is considered 'bad' in 1 vs 1 but good in teams or 4 player free-for-all that will limit how much buffing they get.

Sakurai has also stated fighters are meant to be balanced for 'average' skill players, as opposed to top notch players, and most experts like Nairo have said many times you would need to be a top tier smash player before your skill outpaces the potential of your character, not to mention even ZeRo has said most low tier characters are underrated and underdeveloped and are much better than most people give them credit for.

And finally, I think Sakurai hesitates to buff Pit, Dark Pit, and Palutena too much because they come from a game he created, and he doesn't want people to get the wrong impression that he favors them above the rest. I know, those who would think or say that would be silly or foolish to say that, but it is something to keep in mind when considering how he thinks in terms of overall game balance. Oh, and given customs is a thing and the newest patch balanced out some of those it's not unreasonable to assume Sakurai keeps how a good a fighter is with custom moves enabled in mind as well.

 

[sleepy_Nex]

Well even with customs on i think Palutena could use some buffs. +I wish AR had more range.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

Well even with customs on i think Palutena could use some buffs. +I wish AR had more range.

I think the range is fine; I wish both that and reflect had a bit less ending lag, just so they were a bit safer.

 

[TheRealPalutena]

I just wish for a Ftilt recovery and/or Startup buff. Less recovery on Reflect...i'd be fine with that. Currently if you hit someone with the reflect unblockable its punishable ON-HIT. Unless of course your hitting them off a platform or offstage maybe.

 

[TastyCarcass]

I don't think we're going to get tilt buffs. They're well animated and they can have some use for stopping dodges. The clank mechanic sucks and I think that should be changed, would make it much safer if we don't have to be stuck in it.

Reflect definitely needs a buff. Move needs more use against none projectile characters, currently it's an annoyance/bm at best.

 

[RorioPizazzle]

How does the shield pressure effect our princess?

I've read that all shield stun has increased by 5 frames. Means that it's safer to approach with fair (or even nair) on shield

But I'm wondering about how this effects jab.
Usually the jab-multihit can be a good mixup to catch spotdodges, but if they catch you out and you do the multi hit on shield, they can wait for the final hit and punish.

Is the final hit safe on shield now? Even if it isn't, they could SDI towards you for the punish, but a lot of players may not respond in that way.

Over the past few days it seems that sadly, the final hit is definitely still punishable. I always approached with nair myself, so It hasn't affected me too much. In fact, I've learned to counter the shields by pivot grabbing out of the nair; that is, because it takes me a little ways away from my opponent, I dash and as they try to dash in to punish, surprise them with said pivot grab.
For some reason it always catches people off guard

 

[Masque]

Custom moves really added a lot to our goddess's competitive repertoire, so it's sad to hear the Lightweight glitch is (finally) gone, and that Explosive Flame's final hit is no longer unblockable.

 

[TastyCarcass]

The last hit of explosive flame not being blockable takes away so much of that move. I saw it as a long range grab to knock out campers or for a tech chase read, seems pointless now.