PAL SSB64 vs NTSC SSB64

[NixxxoN]

I've never seen a PAL SSB64 discussion thread and a NTSC comparison AFAIK.
PAL was played on console in Europe, Australia and Half of South America.

I wonder if someone here knows stuff about the small differences between both games..
The big difference is the speed (60 frames VS 50 frames)
Besides this I'd like to know the small differences there are between those two, and besides the most obvious one like Links horizontal speed, I think there are minor changes like some invincibility frames, frame attack time differences, and hitbox sizes.

Has any TAS'er analized any technical differences between those games?

 

[blaze3927]

Lawl

theres multiple types of the ssb rom that are pal/ntsc
japanese-ntsc
american-ntsc
australian-pal
Europe - pal
brazil-???? (it is noted that some PAL nintendo games from south america ran at pal 60hz) therefore theres a small chance a 60fps pal ssb rom exists

there is no "speed" difference i.e they both run at 100% speed, however ntsc runs at 60/60 as opposed to pal's 50/50

there is several notable differences between ***/usa
and europe is more like usa except regarding 50 fps, fox's recovery, link speed etc.
australian one is wierd, it seems that teleports are longer, yoshi has less lag when not z cancelling moves such as fair.
other differences are around, but nothing too significatn it seems

50/50 means there is less frames per second, hard to describe the effect on gameplay, and it doesnt seem to have much effect on di (see european smash games like morgen, swebits etc.)

 

[ballin4life]

I think the swedish players are playing on an emulator with the American version

 

[NixxxoN]

Yeah those swedish players play on NTSC and emulator.

50 FPS instead of 60 changes the game a lot. It makes it less flashy and more "mindgamed". You have less time to input so you have less error margin to press the buttons. Also, the whole thing is like slowed a bit. If you hear carefully, the sounds are slowed down and it all sounds a bit less acute and slower than NTSC version.
100% sure that Jigglypuff's rest hitbox is much smaller, Luigi's up+b probably too.
AFAIK there are 4 versions of SSB64: 1) USA NTSC 2) Japan NTSC 3) Europe PAL 4) Australia PAL

I would really appreciate some more technical input about this

 

[Sangoku]

From my experience, I also have the feeling that the hitboxes you mentioned are smaller. Dunno if it's only an impression...

Except from that and the speed, I don't think I've noticed any big difference.

If someone knew and could list them it would be great. ^^

 

[chuckj]

we play NTSC here in Brasil


when i played (A) version i noticed Link's jump is even lower (he cant jump over the lava in BtP)

too bad the graphics are messed when i play that version so i never played it more to see more differences =/

 

[felipe_9595]

Chile, we play Ntsc, i will try pal one of this days xD

 

[NixxxoN]

From my experience, I also have the feeling that the hitboxes you mentioned are smaller. Dunno if it's only an impression...

Except from that and the speed, I don't think I've noticed any big difference.

If someone knew and could list them it would be great. ^^

No its not an impression. And maybe a lot of small changes that are hard to notice too. Another big change is Link's horizontal speed and thus better recovery.

Thats why I was asking

There was a quite nice list posted here about the differences between AMERICAN NTSC and JAPANESE NTSC.
It would be nice to see also the differences from those to PAL.

basically the Americas (not all the south america tho) and Japan used NTSC. Most of the rest of the world used PAL (and wtf is SECAM...)

Thank god now everybody uses or should use FullHD 1080p 60Hz

 

[chuckj]

we should be green =PP

 

[malva00]

Let's have a Blue vs Orange vs Green vs Gray crew battle

or a 12 man crew 12 character battle

 

[sharksquail]

I've got dibs on Gray crew.

 

[ciaza]

It's OK Blue team, we have New Zealand. We got this.

 

[NixxxoN]

Dun forget countries like Sudan, Somalia or Nigeria.

Spoiler

Being hungry doesnt mean being bad at 64

/troll

Srsly India and China (having 2500 million) MUST have some good 64 player D:

 

[blaze3927]

fyi

to test this just load up to instances of prject 64/ mupen, and run both roms under the same input plugin

just quickly tested ssb A vs ssb U and:
didnt notice any speed difference,
air speed seemed a BIT different for jiggs but this could be just due to less key frames etc...
didnt notice anything difference with links running.dash speed or vertical recovery

 

[Sangoku]

I think there are also differences with glitches. I've once tried to do all the training mode 999% glitches (with shells) and I remembered it didn't work. Don't know if I just failed it though.

Also I will check the mario glitch (I can't right now) and see what happens.

And lol at your troll Nix XD.

 

[felipe_9595]

Dun forget countries like Sudan, Somalia or Nigeria.

Spoiler

Being hungry doesnt mean being bad at 64

/troll

Srsly India and China (having 2500 million) MUST have some good 64 player D:

Jojojojojojojajajajaajajajajajajajajajaajaj i cant stop laughtin xDDDDDDDD jajaajajajajajajajaj

 

[Sangoku]

Okay so I've checked a few things:

1) The Mario glitch works in both versions.

2) As I expected the 999% glitches in training mode don't work in the PAL version.

3) I quickly tried to figure out the hitbox differences, but I got no results.
I went to training mode with jiggs against yoshi, walked towards him from the front, rested and same from the back. In both versions, it sometimes works, sometimes not. I should dig a bit deeper and see if I can get a better result with the hitbox cheat.

 

[MiketheMike]

I've got dibs on Gray crew.

Hell yea! Im with you and Antartica! Penguins will **** at this game.

BTW why would they change the play of SSB for each continent? Why not keep the hitboxes the same? The sound in the japanese version is terrible.

 

[NixxxoN]

Hell yea! Im with you and Antartica! Penguins will **** at this game.

BTW why would they change the play of SSB for each continent? Why not keep the hitboxes the same? The sound in the japanese version is terrible.

Supposedly, the later a version came out, the more "fixes" it had.

1st was SSB Japan, 2nd USA and third PAL ones.
NTSC USA corrected some overpowered stuff from japanese version it added more DI, and other minor changes. European PAL improved Link's horizontal speed and modified some hitboxes (still dont know how many of them). Almost alll glitches are apparently fixed in PAL version too.

However PAL slower speed makes it worse no matter how the rest of the stuff is corrected.

 

[blaze3927]

However PAL slower speed makes it worse no matter how the rest of the stuff is corrected.

proof please

 

[sharksquail]

Hell yea! Im with you and Antartica! Penguins will **** at this game.

BTW why would they change the play of SSB for each continent? Why not keep the hitboxes the same? The sound in the japanese version is terrible.

Yes! We will destroy them one Luigi dash attack at a time.

 

[NixxxoN]

proof please

Just play it by yourself and you'll get it.

 

[Deleted member]

Americans would **** the **** out of Europeans

 

[blaze3927]

Just play it by yourself and you'll get it.

ive been playing ssb(A) (pal 50fps) since i was 5, i still dont see the "speed" difference
its not like its running at 5/6ths the speed of ssb (u)
its only missing 10 frames per second, i.e ssb(u) frames are 1/5th shorter than ssb(a/e) frames

we have no proof of this severely (if at all) affecting gameplay

@s2J
the average american smasher is probably the worst in the world, your servers/communities appear to be flooded with noobs

 

[asianaussie]

That's only due to sheer numbers though...

 

[blaze3927]

yes im pretty sure dsc would **** up 9/10 american smashers

 

[NixxxoN]

ive been playing ssb(A) (pal 50fps) since i was 5, i still dont see the "speed" difference
its not like its running at 5/6ths the speed of ssb (u)
its only missing 10 frames per second, i.e ssb(u) frames are 1/5th shorter than ssb(a/e) frames

we have no proof of this severely (if at all) affecting gameplay

Are you for real? 10 frames less each second makes a very noticeable difference. You have less input time and less movement margin. With more frames per second (smoother gameplay) you can play faster, easier, do more flashy stuff and do harder combos more easily... and you have overall more game options in general.

 

[blaze3927]

okay ima do some maths here and cheeseball i want you to check it

ssb pal vs ntsc

pal
50fps
1 frame lasts 20milliseconds (1000ms/50=20)

ntsc
60fps
1 frame lasts 16&2/3 (or 16.66666...) milliseconds (1000ms/60=16.6667)

so the difference is that pal is 3 & 1/3 of a millisecond longer per frame. or 3.3333... milli seconds

to put this into perspective

average human reaction time is roughly 213 milliseconds

an example in gameplay.

yoshi:
a parry is when you shield upto 3(or 4?) frames before an attack hits you

this means in pal ssb yoshi's invincibility frames last (4 x 20ms = 80ms) 80 milliseconds

this means in ntsc ssb yoshi's invincibility frames last (4 x 16.6667ms =65.33333 ms) 65& 1/3 milliseconds

obviously this quick example doesnt account the factor that most people simply rely on predicting (usually very obvious) the oncoming hitbox approaching them.
this in tune with muscle memory gives an "effective reaction" a lot quicker than 213milliseconds

and more fps doesnt necessarily mean "smoother" gameplay, its not like its "skipping frames" like ****ty psp emulation offers.
i mean running ssb on my psp at 8fps (without frameskip on) is smooth as hell

i dont think we have enough evidence to say that 60 vs 50fps makes a notale difference.

fyi, i believe Pete made some of his combo's on console pal smash, and he remarks that on his console it is a lot easier to combo/shield break etc. (obviously he has less delay than online but it could be a bit more than that)

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I think that the different frames would effect people who are truly used to one game more. There probably wouldn't be too much of a change and I could see given a few matches someone getting used to Pal/NTSC rather easily. The main exception I see is with Ness or Yoshi users and possibly Fox due to their "extra" things.

 

[dandan]

nope, you cannot really do the same things in pal, you just have less frames to input commands which means that combos are harder to do because you have less timing windows to do moves. you should just play the version and feel for yourself.

 

[NixxxoN]

fyi, i believe Pete made some of his combo's on console pal smash, and he remarks that on his console it is a lot easier to combo/shield break etc. (obviously he has less delay than online but it could be a bit more than that)

You should compare both on emulator or both on console.

 

[Deleted member]

@s2J
the average american smasher is probably the worst in the world, your servers/communities appear to be flooded with noobs

since when do we judge a region by its noobs?

 

[NJzFinest]

America has way more players to begin with lol. Of course you'll find more noobs. The same could be said for Melee and Brawl.

Playing N64 online is very normal for casual players. Combine that with the fact ssb is probably the most popular multiplayer game for the system. There's many who aren't even aware of the competitive scene that go to these channels.

 

[NixxxoN]

America has way more players to begin with lol. Of course you'll find more noobs. The same could be said for Melee and Brawl.

Playing N64 online is very normal for casual players. Combine that with the fact ssb is probably the most popular multiplayer game for the system. There's many who aren't even aware of the competitive scene that go to these channels.

Well, in 64... yes america has more players, but in europe there was a huge amount of 64 players back in the day! I believe In general they just didnt knew or didnt bother about online and the competitive scene at all. Also there is the issue about the PAL/NTSC version.
About melee and brawl i dont know. I'll just say one thing that a lot of people forget: there is much more besides smashboards; lots of players out there who dont even know about this site or the competitive scene

 

[Thino]

Dun forget countries like Sudan, Somalia or Nigeria.

Spoiler

Being hungry doesnt mean being bad at 64

/troll

HEY , Im not THAT bad , even when Im hungry LOL

ORANGE CREW MOTHER****ERS

Im prolly the only player in the crew tho LOL


and yes we use PAL/SECAM so our SSB is the PAL one here

 

[NixxxoN]

sup thino? best player in africa (?) =p

According to that map, french players also belong to orange crew, there are a few french players

 

[blaze3927]

just bought an ntsc-U version of smash, once it arrives ill pop er in the (region modded) console and see what i can make out.

i am beginning to notice the difference between 60fps and 50fps, i reckon that one is not harder in the other, but playing one for ages then swapping takes quite a bit of adjustment.

 

[Thino]

nah but seriously , all I see u guys doing so far in this thread is mentioning the obvious differences in gameplay that they are when switching from 60 to 50 fps

but , we got access to both roms , can we find like , real differences in movesets/hitboxes like US/*** ones?

nvm , u guys are lazy , Ill prolly try to do them by myself and post **** I find here

 

[blaze3927]

nah but seriously , all I see u guys doing so far in this thread is mentioning the obvious differences in gameplay that they are when switching from 60 to 50 fps

but , we got access to both roms , can we find like , real differences in movesets/hitboxes like US/*** ones?

nvm , u guys are lazy , Ill prolly try to do them by myself and post **** I find here

too many variables to bother starting imo,

 

[NixxxoN]

Differences so far

-Link's horizontal speed is increased
-Jigg's rest hitbox is smaller

Possible differences

-Link's up+b hitbox is larger (?)
-Luigi's firepunch hitbox is smaller (?)
-Less DI (?)