Pac-Man Custom Moveset Discussion

[WeirdChillFever]

If the only boon to using Lazy is ezpZ-Drop things, then you can better use Freaky Fruit.

Cherry, Strawberry, Melon and Galaxian can all be caught without Water Spouts.

Personally,I think Lazy Fruit has a too long presence on the battlefield so you can't pull out another fruit fast.

Yeah, both enticing and distance heal the same. 2%.
Also, power pac jump is pretty powerful. Killed a yoshi on omega wily castle at 100% after uthrow

http://youtu.be/hOhT_SXBEs4

I think I would run 1122,1121,1112, 2122, 2121, and 2112
(Up B 2 is the power pac jump)

Lazy fruit can be effective if you want to abuse hydrant gushing to cover your approach, but this isn't too effective against CQC based characters who want to approach you all the time.
Even then, freaky fruit and bonus fruit can be caught and used this way while having other purposes as well. On-fire hydrant already scares away rush down characters (especially captain falcon, who we already dance on due to the on stage trampoline)
Seriously, don't count out freaky fruit, we really want these kill setups against certain characters (glares at custom bowser and DK)

One advice: Use Meteor Trampoline when using Freaky Fruit.
It enhances its trap game greatly when used with Strawberry and Orange.
PPJ allows for nice counterpicks, but it isn't the main deal.

 

[Nu~]

If the only boon to using Lazy is ezpZ-Drop things, then you can better use Freaky Fruit.

Cherry, Strawberry, Melon and Galaxian can all be caught without Water Spouts.

Personally,I think Lazy Fruit has a too long presence on the battlefield so you can't pull out another fruit fast.



One advice: Use Meteor Trampoline when using Freaky Fruit.
It enhances its trap game greatly when used with Strawberry and Orange.
PPJ allows for nice counterpicks, but it isn't the main deal.

I was just afraid of the lack of recovery, but you are correct.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I was just afraid of the lack of recovery, but you are correct.

SideB alone can get you on stage 9/10 times.
Add Meteor Tramp and he has an outstanding recovery.

 

[Firedemon0]

SideB alone can get you on stage 9/10 times.
Add Meteor Tramp and he has an outstanding recovery.

I would not rely totally on Side B however, in certain matchups, it can be safely and easily gimped, leaving pac-man stranded where PPJ and default would still safely make it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I would not rely totally on Side B however, in certain matchups, it can be safely and easily gimped, leaving pac-man stranded where PPJ and default would still safely make it.

And that is where you would counterpick these tramps or pick a different set altogether.

Although with smart aiming, it's not happening all that much.

 

[19_]

I think x123 may be the best set to deal with rosalina, does anyone know which fruit is the best to use against her?

 

[Nu~]

I think x123 may be the best set to deal with rosalina, does anyone know which fruit is the best to use against her?

default fruit for this matchup. You really want that key to shred luma.

 

[Bulby]

I wouldn't use the lazy fruit for anyone with good air speed. They can just jump over the fruit and continue to hit us. I may take it to the fox matchup however. His airspeed is straight up garbage and this makes his approach even more predictable. Combined with on-fire hydrant, fox is going to have a lot of trouble getting in. When he does get in, our Utilt combos into itself until 21-28%.


I believe that freaky fruit is definitely the best rush down fruit since the lower tier fruit allow for awesome follow ups/traps/combos. The higher tier fruit are best for covering approaches and clearing the way of projectiles. Every fruit is amazing for gimping and edguarding.

Cherry and strawberry are quick to charge, come out fast, and pull the opponent in for a follow up (strawberry -> usmash is a true combo at even high percentages when spaced properly)
Giving us the kill confirm that we NEED.
But of course, pulling the opponent in has other perks as well such as stage spikes and hilarious gimps (Throw a strawberry when your opponent pursues you off stage. Now your opponent is either dead, or in a very disadvantageous position)
They also linger when thrown for great space control.

The orange becomes an amazing double jump stealer and far range pressure tool that beats energy based projectiles like falco's laser and Megaman's fsmash.

Apple is for mind games and awesome edgeguarding, while the melon is an awesome anti air that stops diagonal approaches which is super good when the opponent jumps on or over the trampoline. The melon can even be used for edgeguarding since it falls indefinitely if it doesn't have a surface to bounce off of.
Not to mention that it can launch the hydrant in one z drop.

Now galaxian, bell, and key may seem like booty butt cheeks at first, but if you take another look, they really aren't bad at all. The Galaxian, as excellently put, is a better orange that eats beats nearly every other projectile (breaking through mega man's pellet wall, metal blade, crash bomb, and fsmash. Also eats samus's missles and charge shot)
Giving us an effective "eraser" to clear the way for us and give us an easy approach, or solid sniping tool at the ledge. You can even get fancy and throw it behind you, bait an air dodge (or draw a side B), and let it loop back at your opponent which can even combo with the side B if the opponent air dodges too early.

The bell is great for catching aerial approaches and landings. It can also push opponents off stage during the first hit on the ground.

The key can actually combo with the hydrant. If you throw a hydrant down in the opponent, they will fly diagonally up in front of you. This is when you nail them with the key off stage for a very fancy spike. Or, you can use it as a very safe spike when your opponent is trying to recover, especially for characters with no hitbox on their recoveries.
For me, I think 1 or 2>>3 for the bonus fruit variations.
Default and freaky fruit both serve different purposes that you can switch depending on the matchup. Lazy seems like its best used for space control, yet you don't gain much advantage from it at all (besides really good stationary ledge guards)

This. THIS. I didn't realize Freaky Galaga did this. This is actually pretty rad. I still think the uses of the Bell are pretty limited though.

My biggest gripe with nB1, and I said this in a previous post, is that people will soon figure out they can just play patient against a Pac-Man, shield the fruit, then grab it and make half our camp game obsolete. This is especially bad against someone like Link, who can pick p the fruit and still continue his own game plan. Of course they still have uses, Apple is great for getting round a Link's keepaway, though Freaky Apple does a similar thing. I was going to say Melon in great because it goes through things like Mega Man's A, but if Freaky Galaga does this, then HONK. Neutral Galaga is good against people who counter a lot, but most top players don't abuse the counter. The two things nB1 REALLY has going for it is the Bell and Key. I would argue they're the best variations out of the three. But nB3's Bell can be picked up easily as well. This just leaves Key.

The only match up I can see nB1 being the best option is against Wario, whereby because the Fruits all bounce off when hit, still with an active hitbox, the Orange is great for getting Wario off his bike. Now if there's any Fruit in nB2/3 that does this as well, then you might as well switch to them. I've done a bit of testing but I can't find one similar, or more reliable.

For me, Lazy Fruit would be necessary for those match ups where you never want to be near an opponent. Little Mac and Bowser come to mind. The walls you can create really screw them over, especially if you're grabbing and throwing the Fruit up or down, meaning they can't just grab it. You can do a similar thing with the Cherry and Strawberry in Freaky Fruits, but they'll drag them in if hit, which isn't super.

I think the uses of Freaky Fruit is much more varied for most match ups. I'm still trying to figure out which Fruits are best against which characters, but in general, I think nB2>nB1, and nB3 stands on it's own as a dedicated camping set.

 

[Nu~]

Nuetral Galaxian is actually awesome for death combos:


http://shoryuken.com/2015/01/22/did...l-in-these-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u-combos/

 

[Revibe]

I can't remember if we discussed that the Galaxian is also good for leading into Grabs. (when they shield that loop.)

Also do the other side B's have super armor?

Hey, I want to bring up officially that the Bell will go through a wall/stage if thrown from the recovering section. Catches Edge guards way off a lot of the time since they can't see where it is gonna resurface.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Freaky Key is an easy counter to characters that want to grab the ledge. (Lucario comes to mind)
When they are about to grab the ledge: PWAAANG. Meteor Smash.

As if we needed more tools to torture Cpt. Falcon.

 

[Nu~]

Freaky Key is an easy counter to characters that want to grab the ledge. (Lucario comes to mind)
When they are about to grab the ledge: PWAAANG. Meteor Smash.

As if we needed more tools to torture Cpt. Falcon.

Meteor trampoline can do the same thing as well.

Fire fox? Bounce

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Meteor trampoline can do the same thing as well.

Fire fox? Bounce

Recovering low my bud?
Jump of the ledge.
Bounce.
Presto.

 

[19_]

do we have any good sets for slow moving fruit? Slow galaxian reason enough to have it on a set.

 

[Reaper Talk]

I've been using Pac Man lately and I'm in favor of 2122.
Once you know how freaky fruit works, zoning and spacing is a lot easier (for me at least).
Stick with Regular Side B
And Power Pac Jump for added recovery
Lastly, on fire fire-hydrant for edge guarding
These custom moves really got me into the character but I want to hear what other people think as well

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I've been using Pac Man lately and I'm in favor of 2122.
Once you know how freaky fruit works, zoning and spacing is a lot easier (for me at least).
Stick with Regular Side B
And Power Pac Jump for added recovery
Lastly, on fire fire-hydrant for edge guarding
These custom moves really got me into the character but I want to hear what other people think as well

If you really want to enhance your game, you should work on your trap game.
I suggest using On-Fire Hydrant more and use Meteor Tramp.
Your recovery is already good with SideB, Using Meteor Tramp doesn't suddenly make your recovery suck.

 

[Jay-kun]

I've been using Pac Man lately and I'm in favor of 2122.
Once you know how freaky fruit works, zoning and spacing is a lot easier (for me at least).
Stick with Regular Side B
And Power Pac Jump for added recovery
Lastly, on fire fire-hydrant for edge guarding
These custom moves really got me into the character but I want to hear what other people think as well

um power pac jump DOES NOT add recovery fight me

 

[Reaper Talk]

If you really want to enhance your game, you should work on your trap game.
I suggest using On-Fire Hydrant more and use Meteor Tramp.
Your recovery is already good with SideB, Using Meteor Tramp doesn't suddenly make your recovery suck.

Thanks man I'll definitely try running a meteor tramp set !

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Thanks man I'll definitely try running a meteor tramp set !

No problem.

 

[Jay-kun]

I have concluded that almost all customs suck compared to the original. For Pacman, the only creative/well made custom is the meteor tramp, and possibly all the side-b customs. If you want to know why ask for a specific. PACustom and Ill tell ya.

 

[Nu~]

I have concluded that almost all customs suck compared to the original. For Pacman, the only creative/well made custom is the meteor tramp, and possibly all the side-b customs. If you want to know why ask for a specific. PACustom and Ill tell ya.

Yeah...no.

Freaky fruit is amazing for rush down, traps, and kill set ups. They also don't bounce off of shields.

Power pac jump is amazing for matchups where on stage trampoline is unimportant (rosa, jigglypuff, etc.) and it is the best out of shield option.
Lazy fruit is niche, but really helps in matchups where the opponent always wants to be on top of you.
on fire hydrant is excellent at halting rush down characters, and dire hydrant destroys luma in the rosa matchup. It is also too fast to be absorbed.

All of the side B customs suck.
One is Slightly better recovery, for no damage or kill power and high susceptibility to edgeguards.
The other is easily gimped and way too slow to hit anyone outside of traps with lazy galaxian.

 

[19_]

Thanks man I'll definitely try running a meteor tramp set !

Recently today I have been labbing with Pac-man's customs and let me tell you that meteor tramp is the ****.
I was aware of this tech's existence, but actually using it is something else: using the up b directly above your opponent spikes them. The hitbox is bit weird but having a spike that is on demand (unlike the freaky key) is the best thing ever. At least for me.

The only thing that bothered me about Pac-man before customs was the lack of a way to reliably spike opponents. The Meteor trampoline does just that and it has permanently cemented Pac-man as my main.

 

[Nu~]

Recently today I have been labbing with Pac-man's customs and let me tell you that meteor tramp is the ****.
I was aware of this tech's existence, but actually using it is something else: using the up b directly above your opponent spikes them. The hitbox is bit weird but having a spike that is on demand (unlike the freaky key) is the best thing ever. At least for me.

The only thing that bothered me about Pac-man before customs was the lack of a way to reliably spike opponents. The Meteor trampoline does just that and it has permanently cemented Pac-man as my main.

It truly is an amazing spike. Fox illusion, extreme speed, quick attack... all previously hard to gimp are now gimped by just dropping from the ledge and tapping up B.

 

[19_]

It truly is an amazing spike. Fox illusion, extreme speed, quick attack... all previously hard to gimp are now gimped by just dropping from the ledge and tapping up B.

The best thing about the move is that even if your opponent somehow manages to survive the spike they would have to start climbing back up the mountain that is our zone game. It is so satisfying to land and it makes me giddy just thinking about it.

On a different note I recently have been thinking about the matchup. I would hate to have him throwing hydrants at me so I'm really beginning to think that 1123 should be on that list due to have more of a use than just against .

 

[Reaper Talk]

Do customs change up the Rosalina match up?
I still feel even with our options we still have some glaring weaknesses.
We have to take into consideration of other characters custom movements as well.

 

[Nu~]

The best thing about the move is that even if your opponent somehow manages to survive the spike they would have to start climbing back up the mountain that is our zone game. It is so satisfying to land and it makes me giddy just thinking about it.

On a different note I recently have been thinking about the matchup. I would hate to have him throwing hydrants at me so I'm really beginning to think that 1123 should be on that list due to have more of a use than just against .

You have nothing to fear on the villager matchup. He has a very hard time launching the hydrant, and giving us two hydrants to launch with a single key is not smart for villager to do. Also, we can throw all the fruit we want at him during the time that he decides to hold onto it.

Do customs change up the Rosalina match up?
I still feel even with our options we still have some glaring weaknesses.
We have to take into consideration of other characters custom movements as well.

The only real weakness we still have with customs is our grab. Freaky fruit and meteor trampoline give us the reliable kill confirms that we need, and on fire hydrant scares away rush down characters. Then we have power pac jump for everyone else who doesn't worry about the trampoline (rosa, jigglypuff, meta knight, etc...)

Rosa mains gain luma warp and star bit laser. Star bit laser is stopped by our Side B pellet, and luma warp (the custom that teleports luma instead of launches it) isn't really something to be worried about. If they send out luma towards you, then they are giving you a free advantage because we can destroy luma easily once it is spectate from rosa.
Dire hydrant is best for this matchup because it instantly launches luma and can't be absorbed as easily

 

[Reaper Talk]

@ Nu~
So for critical sets (my preference)
2133
2132
2131
I don't use lazy fruit or bonus fruit so I wont put in my thoughts on those sets because Lazy Fruit doesn't suit my style of play.
Variations of fire hydrant for certain character match ups

Or at least, thats what I'd add, I'm really trying to find a set that will be in our top 8 customs because I'm going to EVO
I understand a lot of people play differently too, their is a lot of variation with Neutral, Down, and Up B
Can we all agree any other side B besides 1 is pointless? Maybe for a supplementary set, but we should focus on the other customs moves before the EVO deadline in March, or whenever Ampharos wants our picks.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

@ Nu~
So for critical sets (my preference)
2133
2132
2131
I don't use lazy fruit or bonus fruit so I wont put in my thoughts on those sets because Lazy Fruit doesn't suit my style of play.
Variations of fire hydrant for certain character match ups

Or at least, thats what I'd add, I'm really trying to find a set that will be in our top 8 customs because I'm going to EVO
I understand a lot of people play differently too, their is a lot of variation with Neutral, Down, and Up B
Can we all agree any other side B besides 1 is pointless? Maybe for a supplementary set, but we should focus on the other customs moves before the EVO deadline in March, or whenever Ampharos wants our picks.

2132 is probably on the list.
It's the ultimate Freaky Fruit set.

 

[19_]

@ Nu~
So for critical sets (my preference)
2133
2132
2131
I don't use lazy fruit or bonus fruit so I wont put in my thoughts on those sets because Lazy Fruit doesn't suit my style of play.
Variations of fire hydrant for certain character match ups

Or at least, thats what I'd add, I'm really trying to find a set that will be in our top 8 customs because I'm going to EVO
I understand a lot of people play differently too, their is a lot of variation with Neutral, Down, and Up B
Can we all agree any other side B besides 1 is pointless? Maybe for a supplementary set, but we should focus on the other customs moves before the EVO deadline in March, or whenever Ampharos wants our picks.

I don't know about 2133. Dire hydrant is only really good for Rosalina which the 1123 set covers nicely. I could see 1133 being an option but we can only have room for 10 sets for evo. 2132 is the most important Pac-man set though.

I think we are getting to the point that we are very close to our final 10 sets so I made a list so we can start breaking things down:
1112
1121
1122
1123 (Rosa plz)
1132
1133
2111
2112
2121
2122
2131
2132 (best ever)
3XXX

2132 and 1123 I know will get spots but we need to conform the rest, especially lazy fruit sets as I'm not sure what gells with it (3131 or 3132 maybe?). I think it is time to start finalizing.

 

[PacMain92201]

I definitely think we need more lazy fruit sets since it gives us the advantage against characters like sonic and little Mac because the fruits linger and they like to rush is down. Obviously flame hydrant isn't ideal to go along with lazy fruit since you want the water from the standard hydrant to better compliment lazy fruit (fruit gushing). And meteor trampoline could have interesting setups along with lazy fruit. Side b should always be default. And a lot of people overlook lazy fruit. Lazy orange and Galaxian are beautiful edge guarding tools. Lazy Galaxian shreds shields and allows for easy follow ups. The apple in lazy fruit still kills and remember guys, we can easily catch all of these fruits and z drop in conjunction with the hydrant. The bell lingers and still stuns allowing for good follow ups. The key isn't as good since it only does 10% but then again, they can't all be good. So the set I propose is 3-1-3-1. I just unlocked all of pac man's customs and I highly recommend everyone does the same so they can fully explore the different variations.

 

[Nu~]

I definitely think we need more lazy fruit sets since it gives us the advantage against characters like sonic and little Mac because the fruits linger and they like to rush is down. Obviously flame hydrant isn't ideal to go along with lazy fruit since you want the water from the standard hydrant to better compliment lazy fruit (fruit gushing). And meteor trampoline could have interesting setups along with lazy fruit. Side b should always be default. And a lot of people overlook lazy fruit. Lazy orange and Galaxian are beautiful edge guarding tools. Lazy Galaxian shreds shields and allows for easy follow ups. The apple in lazy fruit still kills and remember guys, we can easily catch all of these fruits and z drop in conjunction with the hydrant. The bell lingers and still stuns allowing for good follow ups. The key isn't as good since it only does 10% but then again, they can't all be good. So the set I propose is 3-1-3-1. I just unlocked all of pac man's customs and I highly recommend everyone does the same so they can fully explore the different variations.

I would actually run on fire hydrant against rush down characters because they won't give us the time to set up hydtant gushing. I do agree with you on lazy fruit's usefulness (lazy Galaxian is sheer beauty)

 

[19_]

I would actually run on fire hydrant against rush down characters because they won't give us the time to set up hydtant gushing. I do agree with you on lazy fruit's usefulness (lazy Galaxian is sheer beauty)

So 3132 then? Sounds like a good set to me, at least on paper.

 

[Reaper Talk]

I don't know about 2133. Dire hydrant is only really good for Rosalina which the 1123 set covers nicely. I could see 1133 being an option but we can only have room for 10 sets for evo. 2132 is the most important Pac-man set though.

I think we are getting to the point that we are very close to our final 10 sets so I made a list so we can start breaking things down:
1112
1121
1122
1123 (Rosa plz)
1132
1133
2111
2112
2121
2122
2131
2132 (best ever)
3XXX

2132 and 1123 I know will get spots but we need to conform the rest, especially lazy fruit sets as I'm not sure what gells with it (3131 or 3132 maybe?). I think it is time to start finalizing.

We need lazy fruit sets :/
I do think we should all play and test out these sets, we have one of the most inactive forums and it's up to us to get a final 8 sets soon.
I am down to experiment sets with you all online next week (I'm busy this weekend)

 

[Jay-kun]

Yeah...no.

Freaky fruit is amazing for rush down, traps, and kill set ups. They also don't bounce off of shields.

Power pac jump is amazing for matchups where on stage trampoline is unimportant (rosa, jigglypuff, etc.) and it is the best out of shield option.
Lazy fruit is niche, but really helps in matchups where the opponent always wants to be on top of you.
on fire hydrant is excellent at halting rush down characters, and dire hydrant destroys luma in the rosa matchup. It is also too fast to be absorbed.

All of the side B customs suck.
One is Slightly better recovery, for no damage or kill power and high susceptibility to edgeguards.
The other is easily gimped and way too slow to hit anyone outside of traps with lazy galaxian.

lol u just mentioned the obvious/ what was mentioned earlier in the thread..
let me rephrase. the customs are sad because they are not as well done as the originals

 

[Nu~]

lol u just mentioned the obvious/ what was mentioned earlier in the thread..
let me rephrase. the customs are sad because they are not as well done as the originals

Okay..?
Neither are Pac-Man's color swaps, but if his customs have a use then I don't care how well done they are compared to the originals. Not every custom can be polished as well as the original due to time constraints, but they still fill purposes and fix flaws that our character has.
I think you may be missing the bigger picture here...

 

[PacMain92201]

I would actually run on fire hydrant against rush down characters because they won't give us the time to set up hydtant gushing. I do agree with you on lazy fruit's usefulness (lazy Galaxian is sheer beauty)

True. I just tested some things and it turns out on fire hydrant has more kill potential than the regular since when it is launched it does 15% compared to 13%. However, it does 6% on the way down compared to 9%. Also, freaky Apple DOES NOT kill and lazy Apple does. And lazy Apple bounces up and down in one place after you throw it so I can see it being used to cover ledge get up options. Since so many tourneys are turning on custom moves, I really hope we see kool aid or abadango or anyone that can showcase our customs inside a match. Particularly kool aid since I love his play style and the way he plays pac man. After apex, I saw him play a match on nakat's stream, and I could tell there was a significant amount of improvement

 

[19_]

True. I just tested some things and it turns out on fire hydrant has more kill potential than the regular since when it is launched it does 15% compared to 13%. However, it does 6% on the way down compared to 9%. Also, freaky Apple DOES NOT kill and lazy Apple does. And lazy Apple bounces up and down in one place after you throw it so I can see it being used to cover ledge get up options. Since so many tourneys are turning on custom moves, I really hope we see kool aid or abadango or anyone that can showcase our customs inside a match. Particularly kool aid since I love his play style and the way he plays pac man. After apex, I saw him play a match on nakat's stream, and I could tell there was a significant amount of improvement

Speak of the devil he's streaming right now!
http://www.twitch.tv/xfats
Maybe someone should ask him what his favorite sets are?

 

[Jay-kun]

Okay..?
Neither are Pac-Man's color swaps, but if his customs have a use then I don't care how well done they are compared to the originals. Not every custom can be polished as well as the original due to time constraints, but they still fill purposes and fix flaws that our character has.
I think you may be missing the bigger picture here...

except i unlike that last part..
u could of just liked my post or replied and said "agreed"

 

[PacMain92201]

Speak of the devil he's streaming right now!
http://www.twitch.tv/xfats
Maybe someone should ask him what his favorite sets are?

YAAAS I'm on it

 

[Jay-kun]

Speak of the devil he's streaming right now!
http://www.twitch.tv/xfats
Maybe someone should ask him what his favorite sets are?

YOU KNOW WHAT HIS FAVORITE SETS ARE??
YOU KNOW WAT THE BEST SET IS?????1111
HEAR MEH SON.
1111
NOT 911.
1111
THATS FOUR ONES.
HEAR ME FOUR ONES.
1111
1111!!!!!!!!!