Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I'll try to record it as best as i can

 

[Nu~]

I just do a short hop airdodge or short hop aerial and just as pac man is about to land i do hydrant. he does the animation but the hydrant pops up falling through the stage.

I remember doing this by accident before...
This would be great for edgeguarding, and to cancel landing lag (mainly the dair)

 

[Firedemon0]

I did more testing. I was able to duplicate it, the window is very tight. Like ~2-3 frames before landing. It does go below the stage. It be good for those that recover under the stage like Ike villager and other Pacmans. It's very tight however, and will need practice. It seems to be similar to throw cancelling which may or may not be fixed in 1.04

 

[LayingSnow]

Just use the down special as late as possible

 

[Firedemon0]

So with further trial and error, I can get it just about every other time now. The only issue is that it is almost too obvious of a setup for edge guarding and there are better options. With the same timing, we could just short hop hydrant over the ledge. However I was able to do it on platforms, this makes it a very effective offensive option on platform stages. This could be a mandatory tech to learn and practice if it is not patched out.

 

[dr_six]

Okay, I just realized something. If you side b into projectiles, you will stop the projectile, and pick up some health at the same time. This seems like it could be very useful against projectile characters. You have to side b into the projectile when it is close to you for it to be beneficial.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay, I just realized something. If you side b into projectiles, you will stop the projectile, and pick up some health at the same time. This seems like it could be very useful against projectile characters. You have to side b into the projectile when it is close to you for it to be beneficial.

It's what I do when I recover and a DHD is spamming cans.

 

[Firedemon0]

So not to stick on this, but I decided to make a quick video showing the hydrant going through platforms, it is a bit self explanatory without it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoUyDXWhN8c.

The timing is very tight on this. I am still practicing my timing on it. It does not matter how you do the aerial, as long as it is canceled with hydrant right before landing. I was able to do it with both fair and bair. Though I only did it with Fair in the video

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

you can also do it off a full jump dair and short hop uair, as well as out of an aerial fruit toss and side B. It's basically all about when you time the hydrant drop after an attack. Not sure what you guys wanna call this technique but I've named it hydrant warping as that's what it kind of looks like. especially given that it will always spawn between you and the object your throwing it through, it actually doesn't phase through objects.

 

[dr_six]

If you do a full hop dair on battlefield, pacman will stop on top of one of the platforms. There isn't another way to do that right?

Edit* It's called platform canceling. So pacman can do it, but there is a little lag from dair.

 

[dr_six]

By the way, does anyone know why sometimes when you side b into something, you're able to jump immediately after, but other times you are not able to do anything for a while?

 

[CCCM89]

not sure how relavent this is, but at low percentages against at least heavy characters, up smash into a couple up tilts, up smash

By the way, does anyone know why sometimes when you side b into something, you're able to jump immediately after, but other times you are not able to do anything for a while?

explain this. I've always had a lot of end lag after side B, so any way to cancel out of that would be very helpful.

 

[dr_six]

I figured it out. If you side b onto the ground first (where you start your tumbling animation) and then land on top of the hydrant, your tumbling motion will be canceled and you can perform an immediate attack. Also, I figured out another cool thing with the hydrant. The hydrant can BOOST your side b. All you have to do is put the hydrant down, run off the side, perform side b towards the hydrant, and turn it around in another direction. The water boosts it by at least double the speed. Test it out yourself.

Man this side b boost is crazy, lol.

 

[dr_six]

Something is wrong in the section on fruits. Specifically, this section:

"Strawberry - At first glance this fruit might seem rather pointless, however upon further inspection it has much more priority compared to cherry. This allows it to be used as a defensive option to combat some "spammy" projectiles, such as Link's boomerang, Lucario's smaller aura spheres, and even Sheik's needles if at the right height. The cherry is unable to do this, so the strawberry is your fastest fruit to defend from projectiles."

I don't know if this was the case before, but it's not now. The cherry is an amazing defensive option. The cherry will block a fully charged aura sphere for example.

 

[LayingSnow]

Something is wrong in the section on fruits. Specifically, this section:

"Strawberry - At first glance this fruit might seem rather pointless, however upon further inspection it has much more priority compared to cherry. This allows it to be used as a defensive option to combat some "spammy" projectiles, such as Link's boomerang, Lucario's smaller aura spheres, and even Sheik's needles if at the right height. The cherry is unable to do this, so the strawberry is your fastest fruit to defend from projectiles."

I don't know if this was the case before, but it's not now. The cherry is an amazing defensive option. The cherry will block a fully charged aura sphere for example.

I think someone mentioned that before on the second page of this thread... I'm not sure though

 

[dr_six]

I know that someone mentioned the strawberry had stronger priority. Nonetheless, the cherry is extremely useful. It comes out fast and is a great defensive option. Plus, you can grab it with an f-air, z-drop/throw again, etc...

 

[Funkermonster]

How to practice Hydrant Dashing and applying it in battle? Or doing something with it besides using it as a projectile and hitting it? Somebody once told me that I make effective mix-ups with the hydrant (albeit while breking it a tad too much, being predictable), but lately I've been feeling that using it as a projectile is the only thing I ever do with it (at least on FD and Omega stages) and I wanna mix it up a little more.

 

[dr_six]

The hydrant is pac-man's ultimate mind game tactic. Let your opponent hit the hydrant for you, and learn ways to punish them for it.

Here's a simple example:

Suppose your opponent is nearby, and they like to attack your hydrant. Then if you put the hydrant down and run off of it, instead of bair'ing it, run up to it and shield. For most characters and their attacks, you can easily punish them after they attack the hydrant. Another thing you can do, instead of running up to the hydrant and shielding, is to just short hop air dodge to the other side. Usually you can punish them with a nair before you land. Sometimes you don't even need to shield. When you run off the hydrant, and the opponent does some smash attack on the hydrant, you'll see that there is an opening for you to just run towards them and dash attack. You need to be quick about it though!

Here's another example:

Suppose you use the hydrant as a projectile a lot (which you should btw), then your opponent will most likely expect you to try and bair it when the hydrant is underneath you. So instead of bair'ing it, run off the hydrant towards them and fair/nair them. It's a pretty safe move too because the hydrant's water will usually break up anything bad happening to you.

An approach that works for me a lot is to do a full hop fair, followed by throwing the hydrant down at rolling distance in front of them. Then I watch them and see what they do. 9 times out of 10, they will try to attack the hydrant, and I can punish them for that. And one last thing, I would try to get familiar with the different ways that the hydrant can be knocked over.

 

[dr_six]

By the way guys, I'm not sure if this has been known, but there is a pretty easy and reliable way to catch the key and it works on most stages, like FD for example. So all you have to do, is go to the edge of the stage, short hop bair off of the stage, throw the key, catch it with fair. It works all the time for me.

 

[CCCM89]

probably something that should have been listed here a long time ago, and is very, very important to remember.

Pac-man's grab is not a normal grab, but it is not a tether grab, either. it's...something else. where as even a tether grab can grab someone right in front of you, pac-man's grab has inconsistent results on characters right next to him. Instead of aiming your grab like a normal one(I.E. rushing the guy and trying to grab in point blank), and instead of treating it like a tether(standing at range and expecting that slow, short ranged beam to connect), you need to use it just short of the person. Throw out your grabs just before you get in range of a normal grab. this will ensure you have the best chance to grab.

But wait, there's more. Pac-man's grab is rife for mindgames. your opponent keeps rolling behind you when you grab? then stop a little shorter during the grab. he's actively waiting to see you throw it out before dodging? pivot grab. the slow nature of the beam means you will grab him, even if(especially if) they dodge roll.

The sooner you unlearn how to grab like other characters and start stopping short/pivoting in unexpected ways, the sooner you will become feared even by the long melee range characters like Marth, DK, and Little Mac. No, you can't outrange them with your grab, but you can set up situations where your opponent runs into your grab.

oh, and this should go without saying, but down throw into dash is your friend for damage, up and back throw for launch and launch+damage, and forward throw if your opponent likes to jump immediately out of grabs or DI towards you.

 

[Paper Maribro]

probably something that should have been listed here a long time ago, and is very, very important to remember.

Pac-man's grab is not a normal grab, but it is not a tether grab, either. it's...something else. where as even a tether grab can grab someone right in front of you, pac-man's grab has inconsistent results on characters right next to him. Instead of aiming your grab like a normal one(I.E. rushing the guy and trying to grab in point blank), and instead of treating it like a tether(standing at range and expecting that slow, short ranged beam to connect), you need to use it just short of the person. Throw out your grabs just before you get in range of a normal grab. this will ensure you have the best chance to grab.

But wait, there's more. Pac-man's grab is rife for mindgames. your opponent keeps rolling behind you when you grab? then stop a little shorter during the grab. he's actively waiting to see you throw it out before dodging? pivot grab. the slow nature of the beam means you will grab him, even if(especially if) they dodge roll.

The sooner you unlearn how to grab like other characters and start stopping short/pivoting in unexpected ways, the sooner you will become feared even by the long melee range characters like Marth, DK, and Little Mac. No, you can't outrange them with your grab, but you can set up situations where your opponent runs into your grab.

oh, and this should go without saying, but down throw into dash is your friend for damage, up and back throw for launch and launch+damage, and forward throw if your opponent likes to jump immediately out of grabs or DI towards you.

There are other follow ups for the grabs. With a good read, up and back throw can be followed up with a side-b (up-b definitely less reliable), and forward throw can act as a nice finisher when combined with a short/full hop (depends on %age) key.

Yeah, I had trouble classifying it as a true tether as well because it absolutely doesnt act like one. I will endeavour to add these grab strats into my game though, you make some very solid sounding points.

 

[CCCM89]

There are other follow ups for the grabs. With a good read, up and back throw can be followed up with a side-b (up-b definitely less reliable), and forward throw can act as a nice finisher when combined with a short/full hop (depends on %age) key.

Yeah, I had trouble classifying it as a true tether as well because it absolutely doesnt act like one. I will endeavour to add these grab strats into my game though, you make some very solid sounding points.

I main pac-man. if I wan't to be able to mix things up and avoid losing to chronic shielders and camping dodge rollers, I gotta know how to work the beam.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I main pac-man. if I wan't to be able to mix things up and avoid losing to chronic shielders and camping dodge rollers, I gotta know how to work the beam.

I main him too, easily the funnest character in Sm4sh.

I do use his grab quite a bit actually, all his throws are very good. However, I dont capitalise on it like you, I tend to just dash grab right up in peoples grilles to avoid the sometimes painful startup lag. But yeah thanks, when I play people without lag next, I will definitely try and employ some of these tactics.

 

[BSP]

Pac-man's grab is not a normal grab, but it is not a tether grab, either. it's...something else. where as even a tether grab can grab someone right in front of you, pac-man's grab has inconsistent results on characters right next to him. Instead of aiming your grab like a normal one(I.E. rushing the guy and trying to grab in point blank), and instead of treating it like a tether(standing at range and expecting that slow, short ranged beam to connect), you need to use it just short of the person. Throw out your grabs just before you get in range of a normal grab. this will ensure you have the best chance to grab.

I agree. Don't try to grab people who will be inside of Pac-Man's hand when he does the animation.

Also to add, just in case people still don't know, Pac-Man's grab has a near normal hitbox right next to his glove when you start it. If you miss with that though, then you're got to wait for the beam.

 

[CCCM89]

you know, I could have sworn I'd posted this in the beginner's guide thread. then again, grab games would be a fairly higher-end skill set.

 

[Lord Cruxis]

Well with the new patch, its 10x easier to do bair into the hydrant, then jab and grab an opponent into the hydrant. Super fun now lol.

 

[AGES]

Fixed the error with cherry priority, added Bellhop under combos, added key-grabbing strategy, and added/removed some things due to v1.04.

 

[Lord Cruxis]

Fixed the error with cherry priority, added Bellhop under combos, added key-grabbing strategy, and added/removed some things due to v1.04.

It stinks that hydrant is sturdier making melon into hydrant not possible. But I still like to mention galaxian into hydrant is still viable. Not as fast but it still works haha

 

[dr_six]

It stinks that hydrant is sturdier making melon into hydrant not possible. But I still like to mention galaxian into hydrant is still viable. Not as fast but it still works haha

It really is a bummer! I just discovered something really insane with z-dropping and the hydrant. You don't have to jump at all, you just need to place the hydrant down, run off the side, and z-drop immediately. If you have the key, you'll launch the hydrant really fast. It's really a shame the melon can't do this too.

 

[Etc_Guy]

My brother is a Pac-main and our favorite online duo is the Yellow Devils, ( and ) and it works well. The only time we lost was to a good and bad .

There is a combo I want to try and it's the can + hydrant.

 

[CCCM89]

having a little difficult with a match-up. any tips for a bowser that knows not to breath fire when you have a melon charged?

 

[AGES]

having a little difficult with a match-up. any tips for a bowser that knows not to breath fire when you have a melon charged?

Not super experienced with this MU but eh ill try
Be VERY CAREFUL with your hydrant. Bowser can very easily just charge in and smash it away with a dash attack, fair, bair, or any part of his moveset really lol. The hydrant is definitely still useful as a spacing tech to build space to charge up keys and what not, just be prepared to have it potentially flying towards you. That actually might be nice bait actually, set a hydrant, charge fruit, punish his assault by canceling into grab idk
I personally feel like this MU is better played trying to focus on punishing bowser, while trying to harass him with apples from the air. Bowser has a lot of unsafe moves that Pac can capitalize on with quick moves such as his nair, fair, dash attack, or dthrow -> dash attack setups. Finally, make sure to recover low to avoid being edgeguarded by bowsers bair.

 

[CCCM89]

ages, I want him to dash in and launch it. it''l leave him open for a grab or a dash attack of my own. the problem is, he knows not to do this. if he launches my hydrant, I can punish, thus he didn't launch. the guy was good, he know how to perfectly space bowser's standing combo and his tilts. made it very difficult to approach, and near impossible to punnish since he wouldn't approach unless I was charging my fruit or he had already launched me, and only occasionally to breath on me. I couldn't do any air attack on him at all, because I could not approach without him either shielding everything instantly, or spamming his standing combo untill i tried an air approach, which he could then easily shield and punnish.

Oh, and edgeguarding, he doesn't need to be off stage to edge guard, he just needs to be a roll distance away and side til to kill you if you jump up, roll, attack, just stand up, or anything from the ledge. on option was a really high jump, and if I did that, he just Faird me. I need some solid tips for bowser that I can exploit if I ever have to deal with this again. Honestly, the guy outranged all my attacks, had priority on nearly all but my slowest ones, and completely walled any approach I tried. it can get annoying having to fight someone like that, so I want a way to abuse the **** out of them if anyone tries that again.

 

[Firedemon0]

ages, I want him to dash in and launch it. it''l leave him open for a grab or a dash attack of my own. the problem is, he knows not to do this. if he launches my hydrant, I can punish, thus he didn't launch. the guy was good, he know how to perfectly space bowser's standing combo and his tilts. made it very difficult to approach, and near impossible to punnish since he wouldn't approach unless I was charging my fruit or he had already launched me, and only occasionally to breath on me. I couldn't do any air attack on him at all, because I could not approach without him either shielding everything instantly, or spamming his standing combo untill i tried an air approach, which he could then easily shield and punnish.

Oh, and edgeguarding, he doesn't need to be off stage to edge guard, he just needs to be a roll distance away and side til to kill you if you jump up, roll, attack, just stand up, or anything from the ledge. on option was a really high jump, and if I did that, he just Faird me. I need some solid tips for bowser that I can exploit if I ever have to deal with this again. Honestly, the guy outranged all my attacks, had priority on nearly all but my slowest ones, and completely walled any approach I tried. it can get annoying having to fight someone like that, so I want a way to abuse the **** out of them if anyone tries that again.

If you know he shields often grab. Players that prefer to wait for you to attack normally are just reacting without a true plan. Bait the tilts, punish with hydrant or fruit toss. Bowser is a very easy matchup because we can combo and punish all day. Also when approaching via air. You should retreating safely after the first fair.

 

[BSP]

Just in case it wasn't known: I don't think Bonus Fruit stales.

 

[CCCM89]

found another interesting synergy. you know villager can pocked pretty much everything we can throw, right? hydrant, fruits, all that. but apparently, they can also pocket the water that shoots out of the hydrant. this lets them have some extra horizontal recovery while letting them still attack. I would think a fast villager player could spam pocket and keep reusing the thing, but at the very least, it gives us some...interesting options for team match-ups. especially if you remember that the hydrant watter sends fruit at a 45 degree angle, and if you could control exactly when that happens...

 

[ptrk83]

http://youtu.be/gGPG7tIl8Ew

Not sure if this was posted but apparently you can do this.

 

[Firedemon0]

http://youtu.be/gGPG7tIl8Ew

Not sure if this was posted but apparently you can do this.

I do not think it was the hit box going below, but rather Captain Falcon reaching through the stage. If he sweet spotted he shouldn't of been so utterly wrecked.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Hey guys. Since I got the Wii U version of Smash 4 I've started practicing with Pac-Man again, he feels much better with the improved controls and visuals and as a result I perform much better against Little Macs and Rosalinas.

I want to talk about Pac-Man's grab. I know it's pretty slow, will whiff even when the ending rays are touching the opponent, and is very easy to punish. But I still think it's decent. The grab box is still larger (wider, longer) than most other non-tether grabs. It stays out longer, too, which I think makes it useful for capturing players who roll a lot (trying to catch a heavy roller with Mario's or ROB's grabs takes much more precision). Sometimes I'll run and throw out the tractor beam and my opponent will attempt to punish, but gets grabbed instead. It works 90% of the time when you use it like that (especially on Mac and Falcon), rather than trying to do it OoS.

His down throw is also decent. It's oftentimes a guaranteed Key or dash attack, and the throw itself does a respectable amount of damage (10% I believe?). I don't know of any uses for the other throws, which is a shame because back and up throw look really really cool.

Thoughts?

 

[Paper Maribro]

Hey guys. Since I got the Wii U version of Smash 4 I've started practicing with Pac-Man again, he feels much better with the improved controls and visuals and as a result I perform much better against Little Macs and Rosalinas.

I want to talk about Pac-Man's grab. I know it's pretty slow, will whiff even when the ending rays are touching the opponent, and is very easy to punish. But I still think it's decent. The grab box is still larger (wider, longer) than most other non-tether grabs. It stays out longer, too, which I think makes it useful for capturing players who roll a lot (trying to catch a heavy roller with Mario's or ROB's grabs takes much more precision). Sometimes I'll run and throw out the tractor beam and my opponent will attempt to punish, but gets grabbed instead. It works 90% of the time when you use it like that (especially on Mac and Falcon), rather than trying to do it OoS.

His down throw is also decent. It's oftentimes a guaranteed Key or dash attack, and the throw itself does a respectable amount of damage (10% I believe?). I don't know of any uses for the other throws, which is a shame because back and up throw look really really cool.

Thoughts?

Forward throw can be used in combination with a key at kill percent and is fairly easy to land. Back throw can be followed up with side b at lower percents as a tech chase. Not so sure about up throw though to be honest.