Oxnard Melee Tournament 1.5 - FRESH

[mio]

Oxnard Melee Tournament 1.5 - FRESH

805's next big event. No, I don't know exactly when it will be (some time before summer, maybe during spring break), and yes, of course it will be at the art gallery. Our community needs to try new tournament formats. The standard formats are nice and balanced, but they can get boring when you don't change it up every once in a while. So I'm gonna change things up and run myself a FRESH tourney. This is not Oxnard 2 because that tournament will be a two day event (with Brawl ) and will use standard rules/formats. Here are the details:

1. Singles (Pound 4 rules)
-Double Elimination
-Matches best 2/3, Semi/grand finals 3/5
-4 stock, 8 minute time limit
-No items

Neutrals
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Fountain of Dreams
Battlefield
Yoshi's Story

Counterpicks
Pokemon Stadium
Rainbow Cruise
Kongo Jungle 64
Brinstar


2. Doubles (Pound 4 rules)
-Double Elimination
-Matches best 2/3, Semi/grand finals 3/5
-4 stock, 8 minute time limit
-No items

Neutrals
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Battlefield
Yoshi's Story
Pokemon Stadium

Counterpicks
Rainbow Cruise
Kongo Jungle 64
Brinstar


3. 3 on 3 Crews (No counterpicking, "SBO Style")
-Double Elimination
-No items
-8 minute time limit per game
-Pokemon Match Format
-Standard Crews Stock Rules (...uhhh someone specify these lol)
-Each crew member must select one character for the entire tournament. Additionally, crews are only permitted to have one of each character. The characters for each crew are selected at registration, and all must be different.
-One stage per match. Stage selection will run accordingly: before the match begins, both crews will keep striking from the list of selectable stages until one stage is left, and that one stage is played for every game of the entire match between the two crews. Flip a coin or rock paper scissors to decide who gets to strike first.

Selectable Stages
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Fountain of Dreams
Battlefield
Yoshi's Story


~IMPORTANT REQUEST about 3 on 3 Crews~ I'm obviously not going to be behind you guys cracking a whip to make sure you precisely follow this format, but if you do enter the tournament, I would ask that you respect the rules and not make any side deals with your opponents about disregarding the format. I'm really trying to experiment here to see if this would be a legitimate tournament format, so try not to **** with it.

Fees
One time Venue Fee - $5 (bring a setup if you don't want to pay for this)
Singles - $5
Doubles - $10 per team ($5 per player)
3 on 3 - $9 per crew ($3 per player)

Prizes (as calculated from the entry fee pots)
Singles - (60/30/10)
Doubles - (60/30/10)
3 on 3 - (70/20/10)

 

[GSUB]

Oh hey cool ****.

 

[Zolios]

Oxnard before Summer? Might be possible.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I hope these new tournament formats are as good as I think they will be.

 

[GSUB]

Go Kirby; I dare you.

 

[Kouryuu]

Replace one of the Singles events for Doubles(regular). And outside of the SBO format (3v3, character lock, no same character, no CP), crews should be unchanged with each player on the team having equal amount of stocks.

Just my 2cents. I'll try my best to make it (depending on the date of course).

 

[joeplicate]

i guess the thing that rubs me the wrong way about the experimental singles, is

really often when i'm playing people, we'll come to an agreement on the first neutral
then throughout the set, i'll realize why the first stage is good for the other person
so counterpicking stages eventually becomes a part of reading your opponent, and adapting to them

i'd imagine that staying on the same level could get tedious, as both players try to figure out more specific strategies to work the level

i noticed that armada would always go to battlefield on the stage strike, but it's actually a really good stage for him, and he cp'd it again later in a lotta sets (from pound). he's really, really good at using peach to control the center of the stage.

so it seems like it'd be more fair, even, to have the counterpicks in


cool idea though, it's good to have some different rulesets
it'll be interesting

 

[GSUB]

Hmmm...
I too do not like th weird stocks thing.
I think it should be like regular crew rules for 3v3.
But I DO like the one stage thing, because different people will be on that stage each round, so you have to pick what stage will suit your team as a whole best... But then again, it's striking and will probably be battlefield. Unless you do a whole 3v3 match on one stage, when team A wins, they are up by 1; then team B CP's a stage, and have another 3v3 there; etc.

So basically, you have to CP as a team.

 

[mio]

Well no need to change a good formula so we'll use standard crew rules. Does everyone else agree with Kouryuu that Standard Singles, Standard Doubles and 3v3 crews (SBO Style) would be a better / more entertaining line up for this tournament? If so we'll change it to that.


The reason why I thought it would be cool to see the two different 1v1 formats in one day is that we could look at the results for both tournaments side by side and be able to look at the difference in rankings with the same pool of competition.

 

[The Greater Leon]

im coming

im glad somone is finally doing this

also whats your reasoning for the stock splitting?
i wanna hear how you derived it from traditional 'teams'

 

[Kouryuu]

Personally, I'd rather do modded singles, Standard doubles, and SBO style Crews. But that's just me. So long as we have standard Doubles and SBO style Crews I'm happy. =)

Mio, try doing a poll to see which preferred rule set (for singles) do people want. Standard, or Modded.

i guess the thing that rubs me the wrong way about the experimental singles, is

really often when i'm playing people, we'll come to an agreement on the first neutral
then throughout the set, i'll realize why the first stage is good for the other person
so counterpicking stages eventually becomes a part of reading your opponent, and adapting to them

That's usually the case when your preferred neutrals are the ones that are usually struck and you would rather use counter pick stages to stay in the game. But now, knowing the rule set beforehand, you can study up on which neutrals you prefer against w/e character and work from there.

i'd imagine that staying on the same level could get tedious, as both players try to figure out more specific strategies to work the level

It wont be tedious. And remember, it's neutrals so there wont be much stage specific strategies used to work the level in ones favor. It's any characters match. The one who displays better mastery of their character wins.

i noticed that armada would always go to battlefield on the stage strike, but it's actually a really good stage for him, and he cp'd it again later in a lotta sets (from pound). he's really, really good at using peach to control the center of the stage.

Everybody loves battlefield since it is considered the most "neutral" stage due to the lack of anomalies. And the stage doesn't favor Peach either. And we all know that he is just as great on Battlefield as he is on any other stage


But I can see where you're coming from, since many players have different ways of approaching singles with our current rule set. The one thing I really dislike about the current rule set for singles is that, losing the first match can really hurt your chances of winning the set since you have to go through your opponents CP to win. And anything can happen in a single match. At least with no CP stages/characters, you can still win on the one stage that you both agreed to if you truly are the better player. That's just my take on it, anyway.

 

[mio]

I have a few concerns about this tournament that I'd like some feedback on to anyone interested in attending:

1. The idea of the stage rules in the modded tournament formats is to remove the stage as a strategy of giving yourself the advantage in the match-up (counterpicking). The point is to make the fight more about the skill level of the players and their mastery of their characters than about the stage that they’re playing on. I know that in smash, the stage will inevitably play a role in how the match turns out no matter what (because of character weights/recoveries/etc.), but the point of these specific rules is to minimize that aspect of the match as best as possible. So with this mentality in mind, do you agree with the stage rules for the modded formats or would you make them in some different way? The one rule that is certain and unchanging is that it will only include neutral stages.

2. Would you pay more/less to enter the tourneys or are the prices good?

3. With the format of the tournament, there will never be more than two players at a time. Since there won't be doubles (which usually goes quickly), it's gonna take a loooong time to run this all. Would you guys be ok with starting earlier in the day? For a smaller, tournament like this I don’t think I’d want to break it up into two days.


@Kouryuu: Uhhh, how do I make a poll? Do I have to make a separate thread? I tried editing this one to have a poll and I didn’t see anything.

 

[Zodiac]

Let me share a little bit of a concern with this ruleset,

Say there's a double blind pick, if I main link and my opponent is sheik, it doesn't matter which stage I go to im still at a severe disadvantage. and then because of the new rule set I cant change character or stages and I never get a chance to turn tables with counter picking or character switching.

 

[Kouryuu]

^ No matter what stage you go to, Sheik is going to **** Link lol. Link vs Sheik (and many other characters) is ridiculously hard but that's one of the things you have to accept about your character. Best you can do is, plan out which neutrals you'd prefer to play against Sheik and which neutrals you'd want to avoid [for stage striking].

Mio, I think you should really consider replacing one of the singles events for doubles. It would be much more of an enjoyable tourney and it would definitely attract more people. You also wont have to worry about running it earlier than usual (I hate early tourneys... ugh). I doubt people would want to play two singles tourneys back to back on the same day (I know I don't).

The prices should be 3-5$ (per person) for crews and 5$ for any other event.

The rules for the Modded rule set is fine as it is.

 

[mio]

UPDATE: This tournament will now have all standard formats and one modded format (3v3 teams). The fees are also a bit modified (but very reasonable) so take a look at those too.

^^^I didn't need to poll this, you're right Kouryuu. All standard events will ensure a decent turnout. It'll be a lot easier to run, and I can just save modded singles for another tourney. I don't think the smash community was ready for that many modded formats all at once anyways.

Brendan - Lol sorry, I don't have a very deep explanation for that part. I didn't really derive that original stock rule from the traditional Street Fighter team format. I just didn't know crews stock rules well enough, and I thought that it would be the best way to balance stock rules in the context of this team format.

Let me share a little bit of a concern with this ruleset,

Say there's a double blind pick, if I main link and my opponent is sheik, it doesn't matter which stage I go to im still at a severe disadvantage. and then because of the new rule set I cant change character or stages and I never get a chance to turn tables with counter picking or character switching.

Did you read the specific rules or anything I've said about them? Because I've already answered every concern that you have in this post. First of all, there will be no double blind picks because your character is selected at registration. Second, (like I already said) I know that stages create imbalances in match-ups, it's unavoidable. But the point is to minimize that aspect of the match as much as possible. This rule set is the best way that we can do that.

Look guys, I understand very well why counterpicking rules are standard (you don't need to explain it to me). The whole reason why I'm doing this is to break that standard and observe how the competition is changed when removing counterpicking as a strategy. It's funny how so many smashers can't seem to wrap their head around the concept of
NO COUNTERPICKING.

 

[Kouryuu]

****!

Make doubles 5$ like every other tourney. And make crews 5$ per person as well (it's way more hype that way, trust). If not 5$, then don't make it less than 3$. 2$ is too little since the winnings are going to be divided up among the crew.

I'll do my best to make it, for sure.

 

[mio]

$5 per team? Wouldn't that make the doubles prize pot a little small? I think 10 per team 5 per player is pretty reasonable.

And the reason I'm making the 3 on 3 cheap is because I want to see everyone enter. If I need to throw in some of my own cash (or other cool stuff) in for prizes to make it more hype, then so be it. But I don't want anyone to be on the fence about entering because the entry fee is too high.

 

[Deleted member]

pretty sure he meant 5 per person

 

[mio]

well it's already at $5 per person so idk wtf

 

[Kouryuu]

My mistake about the doubles fee lol. I thought it said 2$.

I understand your hesitation about raising the price of the Crew battle. It makes sense to keep it low so people don't hesitate to enter. And I totally forgot to factor in that Smashers tend to be real cheap haha.

 

[Shroomed]

crews sound like an amazing idea

why only 3v3 tho? 5v5!!!!!! lol

but i guess that'd take too long so meh

hopefully enough norcal will want to go and i can find a team =D

 

[The Greater Leon]

this is really shaping up :D

 

[metalreflectslime]

I might come to this if I have someone to give me a ride.

 

[JDM]

I will definatly try to make this and enter the 3 on 3. I think the prices for that are messed up on the front page.

 

[Atlus8]

On the 3v3, will stocks be carried over to the next match or will they be reset back to four?

 

[Kouryuu]

Carried over. It's more or less like regular crews.

 

[Atlus8]

That's more like it baby! This 3v3 should be fun then!

 

[mio]

I think the prices for that are messed up on the front page.

Can you be a bit more specific? I have no idea what this means.



Basically, 3 on 3 will follow standard crews rules with three conditions:
-each crew member must select one character for the entire tournament
-all characters on a single crew must be different
-Only one stage is used per match (selected by striking neutrals)

 

[JDM]

3v3 Teams - $8 per team ($2 per player)

2 x 3 =/= 8

 

[mio]

Whoa wtf... my bad, $9 per team $3 per player.

 

[Kouryuu]

-Only one stage is used per match (selected by striking neutrals)

Just need some clarification... does this mean that each crew must stage strike at the beginning and the stage that remains is the stage that is going to be played in all the matches throughout that crew battle?

Or is there going to be stage striking with each new match (i.e. every new player that comes in must stage strike with the remaining opponent)?

 

[Strain]

To me it sounded like it was going to be all 3 matches on the same stage.

 

[mio]

That's a very good question Kouryuu. Here I have to be careful in deciding that detail because it's pretty significant.

If I set the rules to stage striking every individual game, then that would create a form of counterpicking because it gives the next opponent the opportunity to try and give himself an advantage based on his knowledge of the previous match. Plus, he would most likely just strike the previous stage that his opponent won on.

With the original rule, since both crews get to strike at the beginning, both have an equal opportunity of getting their worst 2 stages out of the way. At that point, if whatever's left is still a disadvantage for their crew, theoretically it should be SO slight that it shouldn't make a huge difference in the overall balance of the match. At that point, the outcome should just be about which crew is better, not the stage itself. Based on these observations, I think that one stage per match (all games played on a single stage) is THE most accurate way to stay true to the mentality of this rule set.

This rule is also a good way of making versatile, balanced crews. It foces them to form a team of 3 characters with different strengths that (collectively) are best prepared to handle any match-up and any stage.

 

[Kouryuu]

Alright, that's fine. Just make sure you clarify it on the OP. It was somewhat vague.

 

[unknownPresence]

when will the date be announced?

 

[GSUB]

What kouryuu said.

You should replace the words "each match," with "each battle," or "each crew battle."

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I keep reading the tourney name in the title as "FRESH date."

 

[mio]

A "game" is an individual round within a match (in smash it's 4 stocks, in sf it's 2/3 rounds) and the "match" is the term for the collective individual games that determine the overall result of the match. So for 3 on 3 crews, the "entire match" includes all games played by both crews. It may be confusing, but the vocabulary used in the rules can't really be any more accurate. Players just need to learn the terms.


Lol now that you said that it's bugging me Fly. Anyways the date will be determined as soon as my dad lets me know which weekends will be available. Would you guys prefer a Saturday or Sunday?

 

[GSUB]

Let's play a crew battle match.


No, just doesn't sound right.
(Makes sense for everything else you mentioned though.

 

[Deleted member]

If its a sunday tournament and another tournaments on saturday expect attendance to suck