over b trick

[ICEDTEA1325]

So I have seen dashizwiz use over b mainly on pokemon stadium's platforms to get to one side to another faster with falco. Well I have been trying to do this with fox and finally figured out how without tapping b to make it shorter. Just wavedash off the platform (backwards) towards the middle of the stage and press over b you land exactly where falco does. Just something new if you want to use it or not.

 

[Miggz]

I think people would be more interested if you ca somehow record this. ^^;

Thanks for throwing it out there though.

 

[Meneks]

There seems to be quite a few variations on this trick..
I was told that in order to do this you have to be placed a little bit infront of the middle section of the platform..and you have to jump slightly so this is how i would do it

Dash>slide thumb from X to B>phantasm

I dashed so that i can get momentum and get the right placing for the forward b.

Ofcourse there might be other ways but I found this to be pretty effective and it allows me to do it everytime...

I don't really use it alot that much because theres to much effort and measurements and its not as easy as wavedashing onto a platform dashing to the edge then phantasm, so i try to avoid it....
Still a cool trick none the less.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Always good to learn a new trick to do between stocks.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Does anyone know how many different lengths there are with fox's side b?

 

[Da Shuffla]

I heard as few as 3, and as high as 6.

 

[Che_Lab]

Isn't the length dependent on how much you press the b button? Meaning 1 tap (regular) is longest and the most taps = shortest?

 

[RaynEX]

Isn't the length dependent on how much you press the b button? Meaning 1 tap (regular) is longest and the most taps = shortest?

lol no. Most things in smash are about timing and execution, not about mashing. You have to time the B button press to shorten it, not mash it.

 

[Che_Lab]

Yeah actually you can mash it and it will work. You are thinking of falco's over B, his requires timing.

 

[Metà]

No, they both require timing. If you just want to shorten it, and don't care how short it is, mashing will give you the highest chance of success. The shortest length (w/ no hitbox) is right when you hear the WHOOSH sound, and has a window of 1 frame, I believe. There are two different lengths in the following two frames, each one is slightly longer. In total you have a window of three frames, but it's gotta be near impossible to actual do a specific intermediate length on command.

Am I making any sense? Also, I might be confusing this with Falco's, so I'll consult my frame data later.

 

[RaynEX]

Yeah actually you can mash it and it will work. You are thinking of falco's over B, his requires timing.

I'm not saying you CAN'T mash it; I'm saying hitting a button with your forehead 50-60 times and hoping it will work is a bad strategy. Its a competitive game that requires timing, not luck or "I hope I mash correctly". The actual technique requires you to hit B at the point in his illusion you want to shorten it at. So you have to an really good timing to be able to get all the different lengths.

For example:

If this is the illusion; (shortened lengths = S)


*start*-S---S-----S--------S------S---------*end*

etc etc etc.

Its just an example, but what I'm saying is you need to time the press for a specific point. I'm pretty sure you can mash down B to shine, mash cstick to down smash, or even mash Z to grab - but why bother?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

K so on what frames do you press to get each shortened illusion?

 

[Che_Lab]

Yeah, I agree, the mashing does require timing, its just not as much as Falco's. With Falco's, from my experience, you can't really mash it at all, you need to press at certain times, and not too much.
Wow I used a lot of commas in this post.

 

[Goldkirby]

Yeah, I agree, the mashing does require timing, its just not as much as Falco's. With Falco's, from my experience, you can't really mash it at all, you need to press at certain times, and not too much.
Wow I used a lot of commas in this post.

ok, no.

Technically you can "mash" both of them. That does not make the fact that learning the timing will get you more accurate results. The reason why you think the mashing works is cause you happen to press the button down at one of the frames where it will shorten the illusion. Just cause it "works" for you doesn't mean you are right.

 

[Che_Lab]

Just cause it "works" for you doesn't mean you are right.

Ok seriously? Notice how I said from my experience? I was just adding my 2 cents, you make it sound as if I was being a know it all *******.

 

[RaynEX]

Isn't the length dependent on how much you press the b button? Meaning 1 tap (regular) is longest and the most taps = shortest?

Yeah actually you can mash it and it will work. You are thinking of falco's over B, his requires timing.

The whole thing flopped for me after this. There isn't any point in arguing with someone who doesn't know the technique well.

No offense Che. I don't know what I'm talking about most of the time either.

But yeah, don't mash.

 

[ICEDTEA1325]

not to be a noob. but when do you press b to shorten it.(i know its after you hit over b). but is it right after or wait a lil bit or in mid. or are these all different lengths?

 

[RaynEX]

I can only do 2 of the supposed 6 timings. The COMPLETE illusion cancel (wherein you don't get any distance), is really easy to do. After pressing forward b, simple tap B when the "whoosh" sound is supposed to happen. You know how the illusion goes: *DING* *WHOOSH*.

Man, that was a stupid example. lol hit b where the whoosh is supposed to be.

The second timing I can do is half the distance of a regular illusion. That requires you to lag the B button press till the "end of whoosh sound". So instead of pressing it where the whoosh should begin, you hit it when the sound is supposed to end. The timing is really tight; like under 2 frames tight.

 

[Metà]

Okay, I just checked this in AR, and I did have it right, but the timing is more lenient than I thought. There are only 4 lengths, counting the full, normal length as one of them. Here's the timing for each:

Shortest: Starts on the frame of the *whoosh* (frame 20), window of 2 frames.

Half: Press B on the 3rd or 4th frame of the *whoosh* (frame 22-23)

Three-quarter: Press B on the 5th frame of the *whoosh* (frame 24)

So, each one has a window of 2 frames, except the 3/4, which would explain why it's the hardest to do consistently. Ideally, for recovery purposes, you only ever want the shortest or half length though, because otherwise you're hardly shortening it at all.

I hope that clears some things up, rather than making them more confusing. -_-

 

[RaynEX]

Good **** Meta. Yeah, I was right about the 2 frame difference thing. : D

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Nice, thanks for the info meta.

 

[Miggz]

I love the "woosh* Fox makes when he does that. I aways thought of it as a "shhhuuu" sound. XD

The *woosh* sounds cooler though. ^^

Thanks for the info! :-)

 

[Metà]

While I've got my AR still running, does anyone have any other really specific frame/hitbox questions involving Fox?

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Teach me AR sometime.

 

[Strong Badam]

so basically 1/3 second after you hit b

 

[EpicFear]

Its just an example, but what I'm saying is you need to time the press for a specific point. I'm pretty sure you can mash down B to shine, mash cstick to down smash, or even mash Z to grab - but why bother?

hahahaha. that's actually too funny.

 

[ICEDTEA1325]

thanks alot meta.

 

[RaynEX]

hahahaha. that's actually too funny.

You'd be surprised how many people mash buttons in melee. I know a few who mash Z to grab and MANY who mash the cstick for smashes.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I only mash buttons and such

 

[MegaMarthMan]

This is getting quite of topic.