Our Female Demographic

[Phaiyte]

I stopped reading after like the first 2 paragraphs in the OP, so this may or may not be relevant. Sexism is real in not necessarily the gaming community, but in people in general. There's a group I chill with every Friday at some university where all they do is play fighting games for like 7-8 hours. I got them all into Smash not too long ago, everyone's really loving the game and I held my first tournament for them yesterday so they could get a small feel of what the competition looks like. I'm the only person available to really teach them anything with any character outside of internet resources that I give out as the sensei-ing goes on. However, there's women that are trying to be part of the group, even though most of them it's only because they want to be with their boyfriends or whatever. I see their faces every time someone makes a **** joke or something similar, like "awwww that Ganon ***** that new guy!". That was in the middle of my own set, and I quit playing and turned around to make sure he knew that that was /not/ ok. I have no problem trading 2 stocks to make all of our female participants feel more comfortable.

tl;dr over time I've managed to make the sexist jokes in this group come to a minimum and all the females are noticeably more interested in playing games with everyone.

 

[Phaiyte]

I REALLY want to see that source because it seems like bull. Almost half of hardcore gamers are woman? Then where have they been hiding?

Not sure why the girl who claims to have been ***** seemingly hasn't involved the police but if true that's a pretty horrible story.

There is a /shIt load/ of all female FPS teams.

 

[SixSaw]

Females make up less than ten percent of those entries because of the hostility of the scene.

This is just not true. There is no "hostility" to women in the smash scene. Women get treated differently by some people due to the simple fact that they're rare. Honestly when you see a hypothetical female sheik player, what's more noteworthy to you: the fact that she's above-average sheik #8154, or the fact that she's a woman? There's nothing wrong with this and it will only change once women cease to be an extreme minority in the community, not before then.

Why do we need to disrespect people because they're not as good at smash as some of us are? Why can't we just give people respect because they're human just like we are?

I agree completely that everyone in the community should be respected, but the thing about respect is that you can't force people to have it. It has to be given out of free will, or else it's meaningless. What rubs me the wrong way about this argument is that it suggests that certain groups are somehow *deserving* of unconditional respect. It's like saying that you 'deserve' presents on your birthday. It's completely conceited and sends the message that you think the community exists to serve you, when the reality is that every member serves the community.

you don't have to make them feel uncomfortable with who they are and harass them for factors completely unrelated to smash.

Again, if a woman feels "uncomfortable" when her sex is brought attention to for its novelty, she picked the wrong hobby. And once more, the suggestion that women are somehow systematically singled out for exclusion or harassment by the community is just completely untrue. I can guarantee that Mew2King has been the target of more harassment than every female smasher combined.

 

[Deleted member]

The only time you should take women seriously and treat them like you would any man is when you're directly competing with them. Like tournaments or in the workplace.

Outside of that, I will not treat women like I would a man because they're not men. That's not being sexist or white-knighty, that's just how it is.

I'd really like it if you would give some examples of when and how you would personally treat women differently. And don't say "in the bedroom lolol."

 

[Comeback Kid]

Mew2King has been the target of more harassment than every female smasher combined.

M2K is also the cause of many bad things happening to people around him more often than not.

His reputation precedes him.

 

[Mischief]

oh boy this post
Females haven't won apex because females make up less than 10% of Apex entries. Females make up less than ten percent of those entries because of the hostility of the scene. .

Where the **** is this evident at all? Girls make up less gamers in general. I certainly think sexism is a problem but I don't think it's the primary reason we have less females in the scene. Most people don't play ANY games competitively, let alone women. People have to actually care about the game a lot before they even hear about a competitive seen, let alone play in it. Women and men are different, and one of the ways this manifest itself is in different interests. Not every inequality is the product of some grave social injustice, as I'm sure many feminists would want you to believe. I don't think there will ever be as many women playing smash as men, regardless of how well or fair we treat them.

Also if people are opposed to using the term **** then I suggest you remove the words kill, owned, murdered, gimped, stupid, etc from your vocabulary. I mean, as long as we are being consistent. We wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and arguably some of these words are far worse than ****.

 

[Drodeka]

I think you have to take gender stereotypes into consideration when you approach this topic, as well. And before you get all "stereotypes aren't true", remember they became stereotypes because they were patterns that began to be noticed a lot. Whether they're exaggerated or not, or to what degree they're exaggerated, stereotypes are almost always based, at least somewhat, in fact.

There is a stereotype that girls aren't as good at games as guys. I think this was born of the fact that girls just usually take games less seriously than guys. There are outliers and exceptions to every rule, but this is mostly true. Girls aren't fascinated by the fantasy worlds as often as guys, and I believe this might have a little bit to do with the fact that in their reality, girls still have more to work for than guys (inequality and what not). Guys don't have to worry about getting paid less than girls, or being constantly judged as often, etc., and so have much more social freedoms than girls as well, meaning we basically have the privilege of taking games more seriously more easily than girls.

Another stereotype is that guys are physically stronger/ more dexterous than females. This one is without a doubt very controversial, but heavily based in fact as well. Guys naturally lose weight faster, build muscle faster, and develop muscle memory more easily as a whole. I think this stems a bit from what is expected of each gender to attract one another. For guys, it is usually believed that being strong, respectable, and level-headed is attractive. For females, guys stereotypically want good looks and a personality type that is similar to theirs. Because of this, by the time a lot of guys get to playing smash, they have possible spent the majority of their life trying to learn physical or mental talents, while girls have possible spent most this time trying to magnify their positive characteristics. This makes the technical and competitive aspects of gaming come more naturally to the male.

One thing that I think is awesome that girls might have going into gaming, especially competitive gaming, is the opportunity to explore aspects of life she hasn't had a way into before. It's rare that girls are expected to compete amongst one another (they do, but STEREOTYPICALLY, the guys don't care about this), and gaming can often be a way to not only compete amongst their own gender, but against the STEREOTYPICALLY superior-at-gaming males.

Basically what I'm trying to say, is yes, we should absolutely be more accepting of females playing smash and should consciously make an effort to improve our community into something that is approachable for them. I'm not even going to use the word "but", because my only reason for putting my two cents in is so that we can use this kind of information to better improve our community. Blindly accepting somebody into a society could end terrible, so I feel that being aware of why girls may not feel welcome now can help us make them feel more welcome in the future.
*possibly, terribly

 

[Drodeka]

Where the **** is this evident at all? Girls make up less gamers in general. I certainly think sexism is a problem but I don't think it's the primary reason we have less females in the scene. Most people don't play ANY games competitively, let alone women. People have to actually care about the game a lot before they even hear about a competitive seen, let alone play in it. Women and men are different, and one of the ways this manifest itself is in different interests. Not every inequality is the product of some grave social injustice, as I'm sure many feminists would want you to believe. I don't think there will ever be as many women playing smash as men, regardless of how well or fair we treat them.

Also if people are opposed to using the term **** then I suggest you remove the words kill, owned, murdered, gimped, stupid, etc from your vocabulary. I mean, as long as we are being consistent. We wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and arguably some of these words are far worse than ****.

This. Feminism doesn't always push for equality, it sometimes pushes for women > men.
It is just as bad as empowering men to empower women, it's only more socially acceptable because currently women aren't in the seat of power, and unfortunately, men are. You bet your ass as soon as women had power over men there would be the same kind of movements for men.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

This. Feminism doesn't push for equality, it pushes for women > men (usually).
It is just as bad as empowering men to empower women, it's only more socially acceptable because currently women aren't in the seat of power. You bet your *** as soon as women had power over men there would be the same kind of movements for men.

You're incorrect. Feminism pushes for equality for females, which is something that doesn't exist currently. Like any cause, there is a small and somewhat vocal minority which believes that females must have the upper hand of the power balance in order for men to realize the value of equality, and thus attain equality. that group is a definite minority and they only believe so because they feel that powerful women would result in greater equality eventually.
You are correct, yes there would be, because any time there is inequality there are always efforts to change it, and the fact that women want equality is not a negative trait.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

Argue if you wish, folks; outing yourselves like that saves people the trouble of deciding whether or not to ignore you from now on in this social context of this absolutely stupid issue.

There is no luxury of a free choice here; discrimination based on gender is going to cease.
No exceptions, no cutting corners, and no other way about it.

 

[HMWii22]

I was trying to say something here but I'm not able to say it without sounding like an idiot.

 

[Deleted member]

They're usually walking around talking to people the whole time.

Because lord knows you can't be sociable and competitive simultaneously. In order to earn some random guy's respect, females must have their face glued to a screen all day.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I wouldn't talk a lot if I were to go to a tournament. I have social anxiety, and even if I didn't, plenty of people are shy in a room full of strangers. Why must I conform to your idea of what's acceptable behavior at a Smashfest? If I stayed in a corner, talked only to a few people and played only occasionally with friends or people I knew, would you consider me not part of the community? I've donated to PM and CEO and plan to travel to tournaments and scenes once I get out of college. I don't expect to run around and high five everyone in the room when I eventually do.

 

[7ven]

Our community is structured around the closeness of our peers, and our love for the game. Yet we tell this VERY large select group of people to, "Get over it." And to, "Stop letting it bother you." When in fact it's us that should grow up. Accommodating to new players is our jobs as the existing community, and as it stands, we failed. From what I've seen, we are STILL not accepting, or caring to female newcomers. And look at M2K, he was even outright disliked by some until he got good! Wife put this well in saying he didn't get respect by playing, he was respected because he as good at the game. That's all fine and dandy, but how our female gamers are going to rise to the top to gain respect if they're too intimidated by our male audience to even try in the first place.

If you're intimidated by a male audience, then you can't really be complaining
I'm the only girl in a group of guys who play smash competitively in my region. Last time a girl showed up she pmed me after saying similar things like how she was "scared" ect..
You have to just dive in and not care
You really have to not care.
You're coming to tournaments to play smash and (have fun?), hopefully improving in the process. You might never become some crazy player but that's not really the point.

 

[Phaiyte]

Should we start making male inferiority jokes every time we notice a dude sux?

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't talk a lot if I were to go to a tournament. I have social anxiety, and even if I didn't, plenty of people are shy in a room full of strangers. Why must I conform to your idea of what's acceptable behavior at a Smashfest? If I stayed in a corner, talked only to a few people and played only occasionally with friends or people I knew, would you consider me not part of the community? I've donated to PM and CEO and plan to travel to tournaments and scenes once I get out of college. I don't expect to run around and high five everyone in the room when I eventually do.

Was this in response to me? Because I agree with you, and I am actually the same way. You don't have to be the life of the party to be apart of the community. At the same time, being sociable does not in any way indicate a lack of seriousness. Both introverted and extroverted people can enjoy competitive Smash.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

If you're intimidated by a male audience, then you can't really be complaining
I'm the only girl in a group of guys who play smash competitively in my region. Last time a girl showed up she pmed me after saying similar things like how she was "scared" ect..
You have to just dive in and not care
You really have to not care.
You're coming to tournaments to play smash and (have fun?), hopefully improving in the process. You might never become some crazy player but that's not really the point.

But closely-packed communities are scary. Perhaps not to you, but to a lot of people. It's why it's important to be inclusive if you do value newcomers (if you don't, then go ahead and be Quill & Dagger I suppose), it's very easy to be scared off just by the fact that you're with a lot of people who know each other well, who have inside jokes and "ins" and are comfortable with each other. It can be difficult to make your mark and become a part of that unless you're welcomed.

That's not gender-specific, just a truth about communities.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Was this in response to me? Because I agree with you, and I am actually the same way. You don't have to be the life of the party to be apart of the community. By the same token, being sociable does not in any way indicate a lack of seriousness.

It wasn't, it was in response to the person you quoted. You just happened to post around the same time I did.

 

[210stuna]

What's a girl?

 

[7ven]

But closely-packed communities are scary. Perhaps not to you, but to a lot of people. It's why it's important to be inclusive if you do value newcomers (if you don't, then go ahead and be Quill & Dagger I suppose), it's very easy to be scared off just by the fact that you're with a lot of people who know each other well, who have inside jokes and "ins" and are comfortable with each other. It can be difficult to make your mark and become a part of that unless you're welcomed.

That's not gender-specific, just a truth about communities.

It may be harder if you are a bit less social, I love to do friendlies with people constantly. I mean you just have to socialize, and you'll make friends eventually. The first meetup i went to I didn't even talk too much, I just said hello a couple times and my name. I took like 6th out of 16 so I guess. Next time I went I did a bit worse but people noticed I was just there to play the game and didn't really mention much about me being female.
The important thing isn't to give people the satisfaction of a reaction out of you

I wouldn't talk a lot if I were to go to a tournament. I have social anxiety, and even if I didn't, plenty of people are shy in a room full of strangers. Why must I conform to your idea of what's acceptable behavior at a Smashfest? If I stayed in a corner, talked only to a few people and played only occasionally with friends or people I knew, would you consider me not part of the community?. I don't expect to run around and high five everyone in the room when I eventually do.

I suffer from social anxiety as well. (at least thats what my psychiatrist says. Apparently it's "cureable").
If you're staying in the corner and only limiting your options to a few people, you're just not going to be that person who can feel at home with alot of random, new players you've never talked to before. Everyone has a place in the community. There will always people quiet people, rude people, polite people, loud people.
A community has all kinds of people in it.
I'm actually a big trash talker while I play

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

It may be harder if you are a bit less social, I love to do friendlies with people constantly. I mean you just have to socialize, and you'll make friends eventually. The first meetup i went to I didn't even talk too much, I just said hello a couple times and my name. I took like 6th out of 16 so I guess. Next time I went I did a bit worse but people noticed I was just there to play the game and didn't really mention much about me being female.
The important thing isn't to give people the satisfaction of a reaction out of you

I suffer from social anxiety as well. (at least thats what my psychiatrist says. Apparently it's "cureable").
If you're staying in the corner and only limiting your options to a few people, you're just not going to be that person who can feel at home with alot of random, new players you've never talked to before. Everyone has a place in the community. There will always people quiet people, rude people, polite people, loud people.
A community has all kinds of people in it.
I'm actually a big trash talker while I play

I'm going pout a little and let you know that I do try to be sociable, but it is difficult. I make an effort to be as sociable as I can but it doesn't come easy to everyone. Thanks for the sentiment though. It's the sort of thing that repeated exposure and attempts to socialize can at least help me be around large crowds, even if I'd rather be home perfecting QD RAR ledgegrab

And yeah, communities have all kinds of people in them, and should. Everyone has something unique to offer and should be judged individually. A person shouldn't be left out for being too loud, or too quiet, or too withdrawn, or too sociable, or too bad, or whatever. To get more specific for this thread, it is hard for people to be accommodated into spaces where the opposite gender is predominant (Guys would probably be reserved at a Twilight screening even if they were fans.) Without getting into heated arguments about sexism and the like, I hope we can all at least agree how important it is to be a welcoming community. The bigger a community is, the more healthy it is, frankly.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I've seen this enough.. It was on the smash social group on FB for like a month. ITS OVER NOW OMG

 

[Vashimus]

I'd really like it if you would give some examples of when and how you would personally treat women differently. And don't say "in the bedroom lolol."

Kinda hard to give a good one off the top my head, so I apologize if it's bad.

"What's up Mike? You ready for the party tonight?"
"Ehh I don't know... I'm feeling pretty tired..."
"Hey it's cool man. You change your mind, text me so I can tell you where it is."
"Ah right, thanks dude!"

Whatever, not gonna force him. He's a man, he can make his own decisions. If he wants to come later, he will. If not, that's fine too.

"Hey Emily! You good for the party tonight?"
"I really don't know, I'm feeling kinda tired....."
"Well that's too bad, because you're coming anyway."
"What?"
"You heard me. You're coming, be ready at 9."
"haha Don't I get a say in this?"
"Make sure you dress sexy too. Something that shows off that ass."
"You're crazy."
"See you tonight."

She didn't make a decision, so I'll make it for her. Women often don't like making decisions, so they'll do anything to avoid it by giving half answers. If she really didn't want to go, she would've just said it. So I'll make it easy for her, be a man, and lead her, even if it means coming off bullish. When you pick her up later that evening, 8 times outta 10, she's gonna be ready anyway. I never take things girls say at face value.

I was trying to say something here but I'm not able to say it without sounding like an idiot.

I saw it before the edit, so I'll answer.

A lot of men's default line of thinking toward these kind of things is centered on the assumption that a male's lifestyle is ideal for sexes, and that women were simply cheated of the opportunity to do the same things as men by repression and discrimination.

That assumes women want to rule the world, lead armies, invent new branches of science, explore and learn about the universe, build themselves prosperous businesses that earn them billions of dollars, all ultimately in the search of status, contribution to the species, and respect.

While certainly just about every guy drools over things like that, it really doesn't do it for most women. Not to say that there aren't any out there, but for the vast majority? Not really.

Why do we go to Smash tournaments? It's not just because we love the game, because you can do that straight from your couch. It's to compete with other people and triumph over them.

Understand that we, as men, love CONQUEST. We all have a fire inside us, a passion to compete against our fellow man, and triumph over them. Getting better and improving ourselves to outdo the next guy. We strive to find worthy and formidable opponents and conquer them. We LOVE competition, all in the search of being the best there ever was. It's in our DNA, and it's what women love about us.

Most of the women you find in Smash tournaments are there with their boyfriends who are also competing (and wouldn't go to a tournament without them) or are there for the socializing. That isn't to say there AREN'T any girls out there who go to tournaments strictly to crush some souls, but for a lot of girls, it's not really THAT super-important to them about winning.

And that's perfectly FINE. Girls are different from us, and you should love it. They're not gonna be passionate about the same things that you are. Even if everyone miraculously acted on their best behavior, there's not gonna be a massive downpour of girls rushing into the scene. Be appreciative of the ones that come and treat them with respect, but to expect anything more is a pipe dream.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Vash, that is an absurd generalization. My best friend and I used to throw darts at a papered wall because neither of us could decide which dining hall to eat at. She kicks my ass at platformers, has played about four times the Zelda games I have and is as good as I am at FPS's in spite of playing about 10% as often. I've known decisive girls, passive ones, ones who love CONQUEST as much as I do and girls who would tell me to get stuffed if I presumed to tell them what they were doing that evening.

Women as a group are, shockingly, about as diverse as men are. I know, I hope you were sitting down. It's dizzying but true.

 

[Vashimus]

Vash, that is an absurd generalization. My best friend and I used to throw darts at a papered wall because neither of us could decide which dining hall to eat at. She kicks my *** at platformers, has played about four times the Zelda games I have and is as good as I am at FPS's in spite of playing about 10% as often. I've known decisive girls, passive ones, ones who love CONQUEST as much as I do and girls who would tell me to get stuffed if I presumed to tell them what they were doing that evening.

Women as a group are, shockingly, about as diverse as men are. I know, I hope you were sitting down. It's dizzying but true.

Yes, that is not the vast majority. Chances are the ones who met have high testosterone. There are a lot of men throughout the spectrum too who don't really care about competition and just have very passive hobbies.

You can call me sexist all you want, because that's how most guys react when I say things like this despite it being the truth. I don't even care anymore.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yes, that is not the vast majority. Chances are the ones who met have high testosterone. There are a lot of men throughout the spectrum too who don't really care about competition and just have very passive hobbies.

As I've said before, it's just how it is.

LoL, Vash, I think you just need to meet more people.

 

[Vashimus]

Didn't you just say you have social anxiety?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Didn't you just say you have social anxiety?

Yeah, guess how I found out

 

[Vashimus]

Then you'd know the men who strive for the thrill of competition FAR outnumber the women that do, correct?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Then you'd know the men who strive for the thrill of competition FAR outnumber the women that do, correct?

... No, I don't know any such things. They're about equal.

People have literally threatened at each other with broken bottles at my board game nights. We all take that sh*t dead seriously.

Spoiler

I am only exaggerating slightly

 

[homesuck]

*a ton of sexist garbage*

I never take things girls say at face value.

*oh my god this is so sexist*

this post is terrifyingly sexist and toxic. if you genuinely think that there just aren't women who WANT to be successful then.. stop thinking that jesus christ. plenty of women nowadays realize that it's literally an impossible battle against the patriarchy but that doesn't mean there aren't women out there fighting for jobs that they're entirely qualified for etc.

also you sound like a r*pist. some people have trouble standing up for themselves/validating their own decisions and in a world that revolves around masculinity i wouldn't be surprised if most of the people like that that you've met are girls but do not for one second think that it's some biological difference between men and women seriously that is the kind of mentality that perpetuates r*pe/job discrimination/etc.

 

[homesuck]

also to everyone else in this thread who thinks women should be treated the same as men aka "i tell men they got r*ped i'll do the same to women" stop doing this. "r*pe" means a lot more to the people who are actually in danger of it than to those who aren't. if you've stood by your usage of the term r*pe even when talking to women there is a good chance you've literally told a r*pe victim "lmao you got r*ped"
(source: plenty but start with this http://www.oneinthreewomen.com/).

look it's cool that you wanna treat everyone equally but if you actually mean that: stop saying it. stop saying r*tard too. there's plenty of other stuff everyone should stop doing i.e. fatshaming slutshaming using terminology like "lame", but universally dropping r*pe and r*tard would be a huge step forward so let's work on that first

 

[SixSaw]

asfasdfasdf

 

[Deleted member]

*stuff*

Oh boy. I could list everything that is wrong about this post, but is there really a point? All I have to say is that you are going to come across many, many women in your life who do not fit these stereotypes, and some of them are going to hand your ass to you if you treat them that way.

 

[Drodeka]

You're incorrect. Feminism pushes for equality for females, which is something that doesn't exist currently. Like any cause, there is a small and somewhat vocal minority which believes that females must have the upper hand of the power balance in order for men to realize the value of equality, and thus attain equality. that group is a definite minority and they only believe so because they feel that powerful women would result in greater equality eventually.
You are correct, yes there would be, because any time there is inequality there are always efforts to change it, and the fact that women want equality is not a negative trait.

It's likely that I've only been exposed to negative examples of feminism because I don't follow it at all. I guess I don't really know much about it, other than the few feminists I know pretty much hate men.
EDIT: I'll edit my above post a bit so that I don't sound like a COMPLETE D-bag.

 

[Deleted member]

Feminism, at it's core, is simply about equal treatment for women. As with all movements, there are extremists and those who are misled, but that shouldn't taint your view of the entire thing. Women's suffrage is a great example of the good that has come from feminism.

 

[Vashimus]

this post is terrifyingly sexist and toxic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

if you genuinely think that there just aren't women who WANT to be successful then.. stop thinking that jesus christ. plenty of women nowadays realize that it's literally an impossible battle against the patriarchy but that doesn't mean there aren't women out there fighting for jobs that they're entirely qualified for etc.

Definitely never said this, you might wanna read what I said rather than putting words in my mouth, pal.

also you sound like a r*pist. some people have trouble standing up for themselves/validating their own decisions and in a world that revolves around masculinity i wouldn't be surprised if most of the people like that that you've met are girls but do not for one second think that it's some biological difference between men and women seriously that is the kind of mentality that perpetuates r*pe/job discrimination/etc.

You don't **** about me, and I have never ***** a damn woman in my life. If this is how you want to settle a debate, we're done here.

Oh boy. I could list everything that is wrong about this post, but is there really a point? All I have to say is that you are going to come across many, many women in your life who do not fit these stereotypes, and some of them are going to hand your *** to you if you treat them that way.

That's funny because most of these "sexist" thoughts that I give out, the only times I really get intense criticism from it is from men. Most women I talk to generally don't have a problem with it (in fact, they usually agree), because it isn't out of malevolence.

Crying sexism is a clear sign of victim mentality, and lately our culture has been so awash in victim mentality that the patience of most of society seems to be wearing very thin for this.

If I think men and woman have different roles in a relationship, I'm sexist. If I say men and women have different natural interests, I'm sexist. If I say men and women have different skills and capabilities, I'm sexist.

It's pathetic.

 

[homesuck]

You made an account just to regurgitate cultural Marxist nonsense in this thread. Reevaluate your life.

i've been following these boards for years honestly it was just a matter of time
also MARXIST LMAO

feminism

hating men isn't even a very wrong thing to do as a feminist. women have lived their ENTIRE LIVES with inferior treatment and given that, i don't think we have the place to say they don't deserve to be angry or that they don't deserve to hate men etc. i'm not going to go too far into this because i didn't read this conversation

 

[Drodeka]

Understand that we, as men, love CONQUEST. We all have a fire inside us, a passion to compete against our fellow man, and triumph over them. Getting better and improving ourselves to outdo the next guy. We strive to find worthy and formidable opponents and conquer them. We LOVE competition, all in the search of being the best there ever was. It's in our DNA, and it's what women love about us.

I can't fully disagree with you, since there are years upon years of history that partially back up what you say, but dude, you don't HAVE to be a **** about it. You sound as though you've given up on furthering your opinion on this subject, with a very "this is how it is and always will be". Don't you have any faith, or even hope, or even wish that differences could be made?

No, not all smashers go to "triumph" over one another. Victory isn't always the goal, but could very often be a means to an end. My, and probably many other's, goal in smash is to take it as far as I can take it. I can't do this by playing computers, and competition in this sense is great, because 99/100 times that somebody wins, the loser is cool with it, and often kind to the person that beat them. Yes, we're playing to make ourselves win, we are not playing to make the other lose.

These could be looked at as the same goal, but it's the motivation and attitude that make the difference.

Vash, just because you have something correct to say, doesn't mean other people don't also. As wholly as you believe in what you say, so must those that have their beliefs. You have a strong sense of arrogance in everything you've said so far, just tone it down a bit. If you have a point to make, make the point, don't try to force it.

Also, this is a fighting game. We're supposed to fight, right?
Edit: It wasn't as much your "observations" of women that were sexist, it's that you basically said you exploit them and use them to manipulate women. That's definitely... Um... Sexist? It's at the very least very wrong, as far as morals go.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Christ, Vash, your anecdotal evidence of your female friends who totally don't have a problem with you denying that they have agency or could have traits that you don't identify as feminine has completely convinced me that you're not a sexist stereotyping sack of stool with a detestably narrow-minded worldview.

I guess it's because you're so good at telling women what they should think or decide. Weak-minded men like me need folks like you to step in and rescue us from the muddle of our own indecisive minds from time to time as well. Thanks!