OU Discussion

[mood4food77]

Well, since there really isn't one, I'm going to start one now. This is for obscure stuff, not the common knowledge. Stuff that could be gimmicky but could work out. Here's a couple of important stuff anyways:

Here are the OU Pokemon:
Aerodactyl
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Dragonite
Dusknoir
Electivire
Empoleon
Flygon
Forretress
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kingdra
Latias
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Ninjask
Roserade
Rotom-A
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Smeargle
Snorlax
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Umbreon
Vaporeon
Weavile
Zapdos

Here are the BL Pokemon:
Abomasnow
Cresselia
Crobat
Froslass
Honchkrow
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Shaymin
Staraptor
Yanmega

That's who is banned from any game UU and lower. To start things off, let's talk about Anti-Leads.

Anti-Leads are Pokes used as leads to counter the top leads in the Metagame. The top 10 leads in the metagame are:
Azelf
Aerodactyl
Swampert
Metagross
Jirachi
Infernape
Machamp
Ninjask
Roserade
Tyranitar

Now, Machamp is on that list but he is used as an Anti-Lead. To to start off this discussion, we should talk about the viability of Anti-Leads, discuss some pokes that could work as anti-leads, and other stuff.


So here is a set I'm going to try out soon to see if it can actually work:

Electrode @ Focus Sash
Timid / Soundproof
252 Spe/252 SpA/6 HP
Taunt
Protect
Torment
Thunderbolt

Electrode is the 3rd fastest Pokemon naturally. It tops out at 416 Speed, making it the fastest Taunt user allowed in OU. With Taunt, it can stop the set up of SR from the majority of leads. Protect is there for the Trick Scarf leads like Jirachi, it prevents them from making one of your Pokemon worthless. Torment is so they cannot use the same move twice in a row which on 1 attack move pokemon like sometimes Azelf (in combination with Taunt), it can cause some serious problems. Thunderbolt is there just so it has an attack.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

Hmm. Nice Set. Torment/Taunt is a good strat. Tbolt 2HKOs Azelf/Aero and 3HKOs Meta, but by that time Meta will have him down with Bullet Punch and all. I just wonder what you would do with Swamperts.

 

[mood4food77]

it would probably come down to taunt and run
i could torment but that wouldn't go so well

thunderbolt is basically a filler but it seems to be a nice option, any other suggestions?

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

I think the only other option for the little bugger is to make it a Rain Dance Lead or slap Choice Specs on it and watch it go.

 

[mood4food77]

choice specs would ruin this set
specs lock him into 1 move which is not viable
Rain Dance could work, especially with kingdra on the team

but what would i run Rain Dance over?
i would have to make him bulkier (if possible) so he can run damp rocks

 

[Gates]

Do you need Jolly on it? I think Electrode outspeeds Aerodactyl regardless of his nature.

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

No. Lead Aero will out speed it without Jolly

 

[mood4food77]

aerodactyl hits 394 max speed, so i would have to run Jolly as Electrode hits 379 max with a neutral nature

but i could place those Spe EVs somewhere else

also, scarf smeargle hits 409 speed so hitting 410 minimum would probably be the ideal

 

[ss118]

When I use Electrode, I prefer to take advantage of the fact that it stops SR and other set-ups so easily by using thunder wave, making everything slower than the next pokemon I bring out(which is generally Azelf for Dual Screens).

If we are on the subject of current anti-leads, I would like to point out that Infernape makes a VERY potent one. My friend goes Taunt> the usual CC, which works very well depending on the team. what is the greatest about it is that it forces the enemy to set up SR and leave a full HP Infernape or to bring it down to 1 HP but never get SR: it ensures the pace of the battle is set by you.

 

[mood4food77]

oh wow...i completely forgot thunder wave, that's a completely viable option
infernape does make a great anti-lead but i chose electrode for 1. not being OU and 2. being super fast

my electrode suffers from move slot syndrome

 

[Gates]

No. Lead Aero will out speed it without Jolly

Ah, I see. I didn't do the calcs so I wasn't sure.

Scarf Smeargle is only run by 13% of Smeargles and Smeargle himself is only run by 4% of the metagame, so preparing your speed for something that's only used 0.4% of the time doesn't seem good. I do, however, think we should set the EVs so that it outspeeds Aerodactyl. 395 speed is a good start.

But regardless, it shouldn't run Jolly because that will decrease its special attack. We should use Timid instead if we're not using Explosion.

TWave is good but it would give us a non-attacking Electrode. It's too bad the only damaging high paralysis chance moves Electrode learns are Thunder (low accuracy) and Spark (low power). There's always Explosion I guess...killing a non-ghost is like having it paralyzed lol.

Also, what about Shuca Berry on it? It would help a ton against the many EQ leads in the metagame, especially Tyranitar who kills Focus Sash.

So in summary, this is what I suggest:

Electrode @ Shuca Berry
Timid/Ability
80 HP/252 SpA/176 Spe
-Protect
-Taunt
-Torment
-Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Thunder/Static/Explosion/HP Poison/etc.

Ability doesn't matter imo. Soundproof is negated by that fact that we're using the fastest Taunter in the game to shut down all the non-attacking sound moves but on the other hand, Static really sucks (although I have had a limited amount of success with Poison Point on my awesome lead Nidoqueen).

 

[Terywj [태리]]

It's funny how Umbreon is going to keep hopping from UU to OU for like, forever.

Also, Electivire, Weavile, and Heracross are like the NU of OU.

-Terywj

 

[Gates]

Yeah, those three might as well be BL.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So...which one of these threads about the OU metagame will we keep...?

Articanus made one a while back.
And there's no sense in having two of them.

-Terywj

 

[supermarth64]

Eh tbh a good player wouldn't SR turn 1 vs Electrode, he'd just attack.

I mean all that regular lead Electrodes do is Taunt, RD, and Explode. If Azelf tries to set up SR, then they're left with a Sashed Azelf. If they attack, then they're left with a full HP Azelf. I don't see why you WOULDN'T attack if you have a lead Azelf vs Electrode.

Unless you're just gonna Tbolt twice for the KO.

 

[Gates]

So...which one of these threads about the OU metagame will we keep...?

Articanus made one a while back.
And there's no sense in having two of them.

-Terywj

Why don't we merge them?

 

[mood4food77]

that's why i have protect on there and with torment it can screw things up a little bit

it could go like

Electrode uses Torment
Azelf uses Psychic
Electrode uses Taunt
Azelf can't use Stealth Rocks under Taunt
Electrode uses Protect

If Azelf attacks first, it doesn't get the job done. While the Electrode Set relies a lot on prediction, it can do it's job very well.

 

[UltiMario]

I have to do SOMETHING for 4000

And now, a poem.

It seems to have been unseen,
A silly mistake for Electrode.
I guess not everyone here is keen...
it makes my "ugh" senses implode.

What you have not noticed is nature,
Jolly, as it decreases special attack.
For that, Electrode hate'cha,
Thunderbolt is held back.

So the fix is rather obvious,
just fix it up, make it timid.
The improvement is stupendous
but the mistake was stupid.

Now I end this rhyming post,
For 4000, it was a choke.
But as one very small boast,
it's very fun to talk like Oak.

 

[mood4food77]

sorry, i couldn't remember which +Spd nature was the better one, it should be timid

 

[Gates]

And now, a poem.

It seems to have been unseen,
A silly mistake for Electrode.
I guess not everyone here is keen...
it makes my "ugh" senses implode.

What you have not noticed is nature,
Jolly, as it decreases special attack.
For that, Electrode hate'cha,
Thunderbolt is held back.

So the fix is rather obvious,
just fix it up, make it timid.
The improvement is stupendous
but the mistake was stupid.

Now I end this rhyming post,
For 4000, it was a choke.
But as one very small boast,
it's very fun to talk like Oak.

I actually already pointed that out.

But regardless, it shouldn't run Jolly because that will decrease its special attack. We should use Timid instead if we're not using Explosion.

But this poem was awesome.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

And now, a poem.

It seems to have been unseen,
A silly mistake for Electrode.
I guess not everyone here is keen...
it makes my "ugh" senses implode.

What you have not noticed is nature,
Jolly, as it decreases special attack.
For that, Electrode hate'cha,
Thunderbolt is held back.

So the fix is rather obvious,
just fix it up, make it timid.
The improvement is stupendous
but the mistake was stupid.

Now I end this rhyming post,
For 4000, it was a choke.
But as one very small boast,
it's very fun to talk like Oak.

Nicely done, Professor UltiMario.

-Terywj

 

[The Real Gamer]

So who wants to explain to me how in the hell Latias got banned? Is it really that much of a threat? I never thought so at all.

Now that Latias is gone it looks like Salamence is going to rise in popularity again.

 

[Fuelbi]

I've got a question.

I've Heard stories of umbreon going from UU to OU. Why not make it BL?

And I know at the top of the page you guys discussed this but I wanna know why not

 

[Riddle]

OU and UU are based purely on usage in OU. Basically, theres a certain cut-off based off of usage percentage (in OU) that determines whether a pokemon is OU or UU. So Umbreon going between OU and UU is purely based off of how much it is used in OU that much.

BL on the other hand is a banlist for UU much the same way Ubers is a banlist for OU. Basically if smogon thinks that a pokemon is too powerful for UU they put it in BL.

Umbreon is definitely NOT too powerful for UU so it hasn't been put in BL, but some months its sees enough usage in OU to be considered OU so it is taken out of UU.

 

[The Real Gamer]

So nobody cares about Latias getting booted up to Ubers huh? :\

 

[Riddle]

I think its really dumb.

 

[Gates]

I also think it's really dumb and it'll likely turn the metagame on its head now.

 

[Fuelbi]

So nobody cares about Latias getting booted up to Ubers huh? :\

I care


I use a Trick Latias on my team that's been of use to me

 

[NJzFinest]

that's why i have protect on there and with torment it can screw things up a little bit

it could go like

Electrode uses Torment
Azelf uses Psychic
Electrode uses Taunt
Azelf can't use Stealth Rocks under Taunt
Electrode uses Protect

If Azelf attacks first, it doesn't get the job done. While the Electrode Set relies a lot on prediction, it can do it's job very well.

Psychic then Fire Blast?

 

[UltiMario]

I bet money that Latias will fall back into OU in a few months after people realize that it wasn't all the broken and it actually balances other Pokemon in the metagame (Heatran, Mence, Infernape, etc)

 

[The Real Gamer]

A lot of people are now suggesting that Mence should also go to Ubers now that Latias is gone.

EDIT: Dragonite must be having one helluva party right now. The possibility of Latias AND Mence being gone? He's going bananas fusho.

 

[Gates]

LET'S BAN ALL THE DRAGONS, IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.

Yes, even Altaria.

 

[kirbyraeg]

my dragons team just went to hell. QQ

lol.

 

[UltiMario]

I don't like how Latias was banned BEFORE Mence.

At least Latias had hard counters. Cressy is the ONLY Pokemon that can switch into Mence and have a CHANCE of not dying. Even at that it's still a risky move, especially considering that Cressy won't be getting a use on your team after or before that, as other non-hazard damage will ruin any chances to beat Mence.

I expect a Mence ban, or a drop of Latias back into OU in the upcoming months.

 

[Riddle]

Who were Latias' hard counters? Don't get me wrong I dont want either of them banned, but I dont think either really had 'hard' counters.

 

[ss118]

Latias isn't coming back. I figure mence will be gone soon, as well, since people have this mentality that everything has to be able to be easily switched into.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I like how the concept of revenge killing doesn't exist anymore. Anything can be played around with smart double switching. Even Salamence. :3

 

[UltiMario]

Who were Latias' hard counters? Don't get me wrong I dont want either of them banned, but I dont think either really had 'hard' counters.

ScarfTar for everything.
Scizor for anyones locked into a Choice move that's not HP Fire.
Metagross with Pursuit worked well too, too bad nobody ever really used it.

 

[NJzFinest]

I like how the concept of revenge killing doesn't exist anymore.

People don't like the fact they automatically lose a pokemon just because something had a safe switch-in. Take means it takes 2 pokemon just to take down one.

Not saying mence is too OP, but that was the argument behind Garchomp.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Yeah, obviously nobody likes sacrificing a pokemon but it's a matter of momentum within the game. Technically it's the loss of 1 for 1 if the revenge killer does its job properly, and mence's defenses are the main reason it differs from chomp. That plus the automatic 20% chance of failure in revenging chomp makes a huge difference.