Smash Wii U Oregon SSB4 Power Rankings discussion - Updating Spring 2016 (v1.1.5)

[T0MMY]

Oregon SSB4 Power Ranking Discussion Thread​

Spoiler: sponsors

Sponsors:

Spoiler: sponsors

(Eugene) t0mmy, t!MmY , @PK NiK, K•Belfort ; (Corvallis) @Churro; (Portland) @sunnydsb; (Ashland/Medford) @thrillagorilla; (Klamath) @Richard7; (Bend)

Link to the Smashboards Oregon Power Ranking:

Click Here​

Please see our Smashboards Oregon thread: Oregon Smash Community (OSC) for further information.
Current topics of interest:

• Which Events are counted?
• What mechanics should be use?
• How to interpret the data?

Up next for inclusion is SSN7

Spoiler: Community Voted Events

Should Fight or Flight 7 be used for Ranking Results?​

Vote Here!

​

Winter 2015:

SSN5
Poll Results

PDX Outrage
Poll Results​

​

Mission

This is the data-driven (bracket results) Power Ranking for the Oregon Smash Community (OSC), being composed of events in the state of Oregon in the Pacific Northwest Region, published for Smashboards, the heart of the Smash Community.
The goal of this body of work is to give an accurate representation of where the OSC's stronger players rank to help guide where they progress in a competitive setting. [1]
Updates will be posted publicly, culminating in a seasonal and annual "snapshot" of where our Competitors stand; the mechanics of this update are decided on by the Competitive Community. [1]​

Data

The data is a collection of information for winter period (november 2015 - march 2016) closely examining the v1.1.4 patch of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. This started with the data collected from the event "Fight or Flight 6" ( FoF6 ) and extends to the beginning of spring 2016 (period ends March 20th).​

See the following information on events being used for the data:

Spoiler: Events

Winter 2015 (v1.1.4):

Spoiler

Note: February 7th, 2016

Starting with v1.1.4, as of this date just one tournament's results are being used (FoF6) as a starting point for a data-driven Power Ranking; updates to show more long-term consistency and trends will show a greater picture in the following months.​

The following is based purely on statewide tournament results for 2016. (2)

Fight or Flight 6

1. Kaito ****
2. Viviff
3. G~man
4. t0mMii, Light
7. Crimz, 9tales
9. FineMan, K.Belfort, Puffdaddy
13. MeowMC, FedvsRafa, Summer Heat, Drama
17. Jaxas, Agent, Charey, t1mmy, NaCL, Salt City, Bryce Kold, Thrilla Gorilla
25. This, Kamikaze, Ruff, Frsutanto, Messiahfreak, Biggy, I love BBC, Punkpanda,

Null Results/MIA/HM:
Seo, Brobear, RCS_Jr., Justice, Churro, Braixen
​

Note: February 6th 2016

This is a start for data to be used in the first season of v1.1.4 PR period - All ties will be broken in a face-off / in future tournament results by calculation. This is a data post, not a completed PR.
Again, this is the initial starting point of the 2016 results-based Power Ranking for Oregon Smash based off one tournament so far (FoF6) and should change by next period (or by Community decision). Where the results go from here is purely data as decided by the Oregon Smash Community.​

PDX Dojo OUTRAGE

1st: Justice
2nd: Viviff
3rd: CRimZ
4th place: G~Man​

5th place tie:

K-****
K•Belfort​

7th place tie:

MeowMC
PNP|Xela​

9th place tie:

RCS_JR
SilentRain
Nanook
Blue​

13th place tie:

BroBear
Bryce Kold
Ebonic Plague
DJTHED​

17th place tie:

t0mMii
9Tales
Ruff!
FedVsRafa
Superior Taste
NaCl
FineMan
Nikki​

25th place tie:

PNP|Kaz
Bliss
Chad
Summer Heat
Koi
Locke
Muse
Omen​

33rd place tie:

Braixen
Delicious Dave
Haunter
CPU!
PyroBro360
MOOSe
Mommy
Jitio
Grevenis
Trident
Leo
Kite
Wilson Ciao
Dagon
RubRub El Conquistador
Manta​

49th place tie:

Lord Gaben
UFO
Koopa
PNP|T-Rekts
Waifu
MUD?
Wolfy
WAR
Arthur
Gem
m2
IQ
Warm Smells
Toast
Joe
J​

65th place tie:

Buttz
Benabetes​

Spoiler: Being evaluated; SSN5

SSN5
Supreme Champion: Cacogen
Worthy Adversary: K-****
Maybe Next Time: Viviff
4th place: Fishbait
5th place tie:
Shinkou
Ruff!
7th place tie:
LMR | Light
puffdaddy
9th place tie:
9Tales
Drama
62Bit | Bladewise
MeowMC
13th place tie:
CRimZ
Nikki
CPU!
Haunter
17th place tie: Delicious Dave
FedVsRafa
UBD | You
FineMan
Blue
Summer Heat
Mr. Gentleman
Churro

Three events (FoF6, PDX Outrate, and SSN5) are currently being evaluated for use in the period's PR.

Spoiler: footnotes

(1) Competitive is based on the philosophy and practices of competition in the Smash Bros. community as a whole and what is recognized by our competitive players and organizers. That is to say based on the standard competitive theory and practices which are contrary to a casual play/practice.

(2)Statewide is a term defined by our national state borders as well as our "Smash borders", which may include other areas including parts of Washington, California, and others states depending on how often players from these other national states may be attending our statewide events. Example is Vancouver, Washington, which is across a bridge from Portland, Oregon and host a popular weekly that are comprised of mostly Oregon players.

 

[K•Belfort]

I think this is a really exceptional format. Purely results based is great for getting our state recognized as a legitimate force. With us factoring in results monthly and sharing it with everyone on smashboards immediately and publicly is a great way to keep up to date and keep players that DESERVE to be noticed to get their recognition duly. Excited to see the change in agenda for our PR. I'd also be happy to face-off or play in tourney against any of the players tied with me for Seventh. If to say I lose out on that, i'll face off with the tied top 10's below me and so on. Here's to hoping for the continuation of something better and logical for our competitive home.

 

[T0MMY]

All future decisions will be decided by from the Oregon Smash Community.
Wherever it goes for us from here will go as far as we'd like to take it. Lots to look forward to.

Feel free to discuss in the Oregon thread and Discord chat, I will see about having all discussion be transparent and publicly known to make the PR more accessible to everyone.

 

[t!MmY]

I approve of data-driven results.
I will gladly play tie-breakers with anyone in my ranking, as well as challenge anyone in the rankings above me all the way to the #1 spot... (except for Cloud players, as they auto-destroy Kirby).

 

[ZIPLOK]

The community as a whole has decided to go with the more proven theory of establishing skill levels, ELO. Where you can't just sneak yourself up placings because you want to be more known. Such as make an original post and place yourself 4th instead of 5th.

For all those seeing this from outside Oregon and wants to see real results and PR instead of watching these kids play games you can access the Official Oregon Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/groups/499672353506994/642079009266327/

As it stands now the PR as follows:

1. Viviff
2. K-c00n
3 Justice
4 RCS_JR
5 Braixen
6 t0Mii
7 BroBear
8 9Tales
9 Ruff!
10 MeowMC

Oregon and the community are very active on Facebook, where all of their community driven members are. Sorry that we aren't too active on SB, but you can seek answers there if you wish to.

 

[Charey]

Here is the link to the main bracket for Fof6. http://uosmash.challonge.com/fof6s4t24/standings

First, Tommy is ranked 5th, tied with Light and I'm somehow not ranked on an ELO biased on one tournament despite tying for 17th with Salt City. Second is the idea of doing ELO off of one tournament which can wildly swing if someone takes a set they normally don't or gets good seeding. Third, Oregon Smash4 has a facebook page (linked in the above post) which went through the PR ranks with a long discussion which went on for several days ending up with a unanimous PR list.

 

[The_SuperiorTaste]

If this was based purely on fof6 results why isn't Light tied with you? You both took 5th. Second why is Braixen (no disrespect to him) ranked 10th when he went 2-2? Might as well put Rubrub and UO_Fox at the 10th spot by that logic too. Third, going off of Braixen's Rank, why aren't players like Charey or MessiahFreak ranked at all when they placed higher than him? This whole list is just a mess.

 

[Jaxas]

Yeah, we uh... we already have a PR. Like, a real one. With more than a single tournament's results...
And we've had it for a while.

It's even here on Smashboards, in the Smash 4 Power Rankings Directory Project (check the Oregon spoiler, it even has the PR picture).

 

[9Tales]

There's an existing Smash 4 PR for Oregon already. It's results based and discussed in an open thread where anyone in the community can give their input. It looks like a lot of Oregon players are already posting here and calling bull on this so I don't need to provide links to the real thing, but I figure I may as well add my voice so anyone outside the Oregon community gets the understanding by numbers. This thread isn't correct, this is not our PR.

 

[Mr.Lee]

Yeah, we already agreed to the PR on FB. We used lots of data to confirm who was where so this creation of a new PR won't mean much unless you guys are trying to keep data up for the next PR later on.

 

[T0MMY]

If this was based purely on fof6 results why isn't Light tied with you? You both took 5th. Second why is Braixen (no disrespect to him) ranked 10th when he went 2-2? Might as well put Rubrub and UO_Fox at the 10th spot by that logic too. Third, going off of Braixen's Rank, why aren't players like Charey or MessiahFreak ranked at all when they placed higher than him? This whole list is just a mess.

Good eye on that, the results are Oregon players only, with Cacogen removed there is no tie for 4th like there is 5th, software used dropped the first name into 4th slot, for whatever reason Challonge had me listed first and dropped me in there by default - it should be appended as tie for 4th when I get back home I can fix that. The other questions are in regards to pools, which UOsmash had not completely uploaded and will have full results updated when available. As mentioned in the post, this is just the start of the data, beginning 2016, and updates will follow when they are available.

Yeah, we already agreed to the PR on FB. We used lots of data to confirm who was where so this creation of a new PR won't mean much unless you guys are trying to keep data up for the next PR later on.

Pretty much what this is for.
I talked to many people at/after tournaments (as you know) and they were not completely satisfied with how the only discussion regarding PR was going (wanted more data-driven results), so a number of us have been putting this together for several months to change the narrative of the current PR discussion.
At this juncture the discussion will be a results-driven narrative, leading away from just opinion-based.
Another big issue brought up was community availability, we will expect transparency and information published publicly (not just to a site that requires an account to see the info). Smashboards is one site that was favored for this posting.
The data you mentioned used to create a PR should be published here for everyone's benefit.

Edit: Updates on the Challonge page were made, so the data here has been updated. Please post anything else that needs to be updated/corrected for publishing to smashboards.

 

[Charey]

Since this is based on tournament placings I have some questions about how things will be weighted. First, how are points distributed for what placings? Second, how big of a tournament does it have to be to count towards this PR?

 

[T0MMY]

Since this is based on tournament placings I have some questions about how things will be weighted. First, how are points distributed for what placings? Second, how big of a tournament does it have to be to count towards this PR?

These are all based on official Smashboards systems.
The tournaments used should be evaluated and OK'd by the panelists which represent the community. The community shall have a say on who represents them. I believe that all areas of the state should have a representative and that each area would be responsible for providing their representative.

 

[t!MmY]

The community as a whole has decided to go with the more proven theory of establishing skill levels, ELO.

The community as a whole would include me, as I am unarguably a figurehead of said community. I would like to know who it is that is making these decisions on behalf of the 'community as a whole', specifically. Please post a link to the decisions being made, or at least quote them here. Thanks.

Yeah, we uh... we already have a PR. Like, a real one. With more than a single tournament's results...
It's even here on Smashboards, in the Smash 4 Power Rankings Directory Project (check the Oregon spoiler, it even has the PR picture).

Your link takes me to a link that takes me to a graphical image with numbers next to names. I was hoping for something with more substance and data. I would like to see:

Tournament Names listed
What data is analyzed
How rankings are calculated
...graphical image optional​

As of right now, the information t0mmy is providing is much more pertinent and informative.

It's results based and discussed in an open thread where anyone in the community can give their input.

Thank you for taking the time to have your say. Please provide me a link to said discussion with its 'open thread'. I would like to analyze what data is being used and who is providing their input.

Edit: Updates on the Challonge page were made, so the data here has been updated. Please post anything else that needs to be updated/corrected for publishing to smashboards.

I would like to know what the criteria is for which tournaments are going to be included. One issue at hand that I have the foresight to see is that Oregon is made up of so many smaller communities at this point that we have not come together unanimously on everything. Rules differ about as much as anything else.

These are all based on official Smashboards systems.
The tournaments used should be evaluated and OK'd by the panelists which represent the community.

I'm going to have to look more into this personally. Could you please provide some links to what you're talking about? I think there might have been something linked earlier, so I will go investigate that while I await a response.

 

[T0MMY]

The community as a whole would include me, as I am unarguably a figurehead of said community. I would like to know who it is that is making these decisions on behalf of the 'community as a whole', specifically. Please post a link to the decisions being made, or at least quote them here. Thanks.

Considering you are one of the fathers of Oregon Smash, a veteran pro of about a decade and a recognized Smasher worldwide then I'd think your say on matters has some weight behind it, anyone who would disagree has the entire global Smash community to explain it to.

I would like to know what the criteria is for which tournaments are going to be included. One issue at hand that I have the foresight to see is that Oregon is made up of so many smaller communities at this point that we have not come together unanimously on everything. Rules differ about as much as anything else.

I am leaving the criteria for the Oregon Smash Community. See the poll I have included to be voted on. It may seem obvious which events will be used for rankings, but I want a community-verified standard. As to be expected we have a unanimous (100% vote) on what to use and nobody here nor any other site nor in person that I am aware of raises any issue with the tournaments being used for the data-driven PR.
Right now I am examining the events in our area and contrasting them to the prerequisites set by Smashboards. Any event that matches the prerequisites can be nominated/added and then a verified vote to establish its worth.
Any event anyone would like to bring into question can be brought to my attention and we can work towards an agreement by the time a seasonal period is finished, if there is a significant minority of issue by end of period then matters will be decided based on value of tournament (ranked players, number of competitors, and winnings).
All decisions should be backed by as much of the Community as possible. It is the Community's responsibility, not any one person's.

I'm going to have to look more into this personally. Could you please provide some links to what you're talking about? I think there might have been something linked earlier, so I will go investigate that while I await a response.

Yes, I did not have my post go through which contained all the information (posting technicalities). It contained the information, but I can repost it here:

Smashboards ranking system:
Players are ranked by the averages of the total scores of their best performances within a time period.

A player's rank is calculated using their best scores within a time period. Stronger players are not penalized for a "bad day", and weaker players are not rewarded for attending the most events. A player's weakest performances will be ignored in the calculations (provided that player attends enough tournaments to exceed the limit). The system will automatically weed out stale rankings and remove players who are no longer active.
​

I am not sure why some of the nay-sayers above were pushing that it was using ELO, that system has a lot of issues when used with Smash rankings.
What the Oregon Smash Community should be striving for in data-driven rankings is accuracy and reliable data, not merely opinion nor fudged-interpretation of data.
A data-driven ranking in no way invalidates any other person or groups' attempts at ranking players, it is more valuable to have access to all sets of information to have a greater perspective on the subject, any attempt to ridicule or dissuade opinion on these matters with rhetoric and peer-pressure will stand testament to how confident the supporters are of their chosen system.
I am very confident in this system of ranking and have already seen the narrative change due to its presence. It is up to the Oregon Smash Community to upkeep it, I do not plan on doing much work on it as I have other matters to tend to.

 

[T0MMY]

I have first post updated, with pertinent links and current talking points.

 

[t!MmY]

It's more than telling that the dissenting voices haven't responded yet, and it's been several months.
I would think if they actually cared about their side of things they would take a more vested interest.

T0MMY in PR news, Super Smash Nest 7 happened up in Portland. Here is a link to the brackets:
http://cacaw.challonge.com/SSN7S4Top24

 

[T0MMY]

Thank you very much for the link. Will include that in with the data.

 

[t!MmY]

Well, it seems like t0mmy addressed everything that was brought up.

Meanwhile those who came in here to cry about it just made a stink and never bothered to come back and follow through with anything.

Thank you for posting data-driven results. Opinion-based results can remain exclusively in the darkened rooms of FaceBook.

 

[T1MMY]

There's a broken link (to PDX Outrage) in the 1st post that I thought I'd help out with.
Here's the working link to the Challonge Brackets for anyone who might want it:

Singles (PDX Outrage)

[02/28/16] OUTRAGE Smash 4 Singles - Challonge

Explore this tournament hosted by PDX Smash Dojo, a Challonge Community

pdxsmashdojo.challonge.com

You can find that, and the other PDX Dojo tournaments here:

PDX Smash Dojo - Challonge

<p>PDX Smash Dojo is a Weekly Smash 4 WiiU Tournament. We meet Every Sunday in the PDX area as part of the Competitive Smash 4 Scene for Portland area and Oregon. Find more information about our events by following this link: <a...

pdxsmashdojo.challonge.com