Optimal Custom Specials Set-Up

[mimgrim]

So just what is Mac's best set of Custom Moves in general? Well that's what we want to find out!

Currently I have a 2131 set-up going on.

There doesn't seem to be a "the best" Nspecial really. The first and last one are bother basically kill moves and go more distance. The second one charges fast, goes less distance, and is a multi-hit move. Nspecial when not at full K.O. Punch charge is going to see little use anyway but I think of the Nspecials the second one has an edge due to the multi-hitting part of it.

For Sspecial I think the first move is by far the best. There other two are rather niche. The second one barely goes anywhere and the third one is on the slow side. The first one goes through projectiles, has decent speed, and good KB.

For Uspecial I think it's a matter of preference. The second one is by far the best from a recovery standpoint as it goes the most distance but you give up having a really good finisher. The third one goes less distance but becomes an even better finisher, though it is also harder to connect properly. The first one is a middle road, pretty much. Personally I went with the third one.

Dspecial... I'm not a fan of counter moves in general and haven't done any testing on the moves. If the third one has good range I could see it being the best against a projectile character, otherwise I don't see why not to stick to the first one.

 

[Pierce7d]

I don't know all the custom moves, but Counters are the best they've ever been in this game, and Little Mac's Counter is probably one of his top 3 important moves.

 

[Pierce7d]

If there's a Uspecial that goes farther up, this is the best choice. UpB should be used primarily for recovery and reading jumps. Mac doesn't need to reserve this slot for extra K.O. potential, he's already got that in spades.

 

[mimgrim]

The second Sspecial barely goes any higher then the first and loses all of it's power. It's still a horrible recovery and he loses out a KO option he can reliably combo into from Dtilt and Dthrow. Not worth it.

 

[EraOfGames]

I still haven't played many friendlies with custom moves, but my first impressions of Little Mac's:

I don't like any of the Neutral B variants really. Straight Lunge (1) is really slow and short ranged, however it can kill early. Flaming (2) is multi-hit and can charge a bit quicker. Stunning (3) has no heavy armor on the charge, but it gets a lot of range. I guess I prefer 3 because it seems the most practical.

For side-specials, I see potential in all 3. The safe option is definitely 1 because it covers the most distance, but if you don't mind dying earlier 2 and 3 have more practical applications on-stage. 2 can bury people for additional damage, guaranteed kill early if you have KO punch (must space correctly) and possibly from 3 Up-special if timed correctly. For w/e reason bury reduces knockback however, so smashes won't kill from it till later. 3 goes through shields AND it has super armor, but it's problematic because it's slow and predictable; you can't change when you punch like the other specials. 2 could work as a recovery off wall jumps, and 3 is harder to gimp because it has super armor.

For up-specials, 2 is my least favored. It doesn't go much farther as a recovery and loses a lot of damage, and the hitbox I'm pretty sure is smaller. 1 is a good damage racker and punish. 3 has slower startup, however it can kill Mario from the center of FD as early as 57%, this is without vectoring/VI/whatever though. Ingame it says it's shorter recovery, but it doesn't feel like it.

For down specials, 1 is probably my favorite because it has a good amount of counter frames with distance. The short counter 2 seems very situational and it seems less favorable as an anti-gimp, and 3 could work really well against projectile users and possibly much better for recovery, but it loses counter frames.

My set-up atm would be 3131, but I still need to try all the custom moves out in friendlies.

 

[mimgrim]

There is a noticeable different between the first Uspecial and the 3rd Uspecial in terms of distance actually. I didn't notice it at first either, but testing again showed it to be significantly shorter then a already short recovery. Still has great kill power, but I've noticed it has a hard time connecting into the second hit. I find the first one to be the most reliable as a result. Still don't see a noticeable between the first and second Uspecials in terms of distance though.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Doesn't matter all that much; his custom specials aren't great. I'd say the only truly interesting ones are his Up-Bs.

Sorry in advance; I'm not going to use their real names, since I play the Spanish version (and therefore don't know if the English names translate well) and I'm sure you'd rather hear and understand "Strong Up-B" over "Gancho contundente." (As an aside, that's more or less "Forceful Uppercut" when translated, so I'd still like to know if that's the actual name in English. Let me know!)

Fire Neutral-B is useful because it gives you straight-up Super Armor, allowing you to safely avoid some juggles without having to play a helpless guessing game. Otherwise they're all close to useless.

Burying Forward-B cannot be done nearly as early as the normal one, so it's very telegraphed, and the bury effect doesn't really net you any good follow-ups against an opponent who sees it coming. Same with the shield-ignoring Forward-B in that it's really difficult to land on a competent player; super armor isn't that great when you already have it on all your great Smashes.. Both also nerf your recovery. The flexibility provided by regular Forward-B is far and away the best.

Let's get this out of the way--The distance on all of his Up-Bs are affected by his current vertical momentum because he keeps rising/falling during the start-up (this is much, much more apparent on his powerful Up-B, which has a lot of start-up). Using your double-jump early generally means that you would be falling when you use your Up-B, which hurts the distance it covers. tl;dr--Use Up-B so that you start going upward at/before the point where you start moving downward post-double jump and you'll get more distance on it. Save your double-jump for later on if you can help it.

Regular Up-B can be used as a panic button like Mario Up-B, as the initial hitbox is fast/enormous and it drags people with you; it also does decent damage going up and can be used as a "real" aerial poke. Tornado Up-B has a noticeable height increase from the other two and the rising hitbox is significantly larger, but the hitbox doesn't come out immediately and does piddly damage; trading on-stage flexibility for off-stage flexibility (in a reasonable way that I could see legitimately playing into different playstyles/matchups instead of one being superior over another). Strong Up-B actually has the exact same height as regular Up-B, but the start-up is a bit lengthy and you can't really combo into it as a result. It might be useful for catching some airdodges when you're falling with people or punishing people trying to punish your landings (since you keep falling during the start-up and a good Mac makes great use of fastfall landing -> Jab), but it's pretty situational and Fire Neutral-B already helps with the latter...It also has more landing lag than the other Up-Bs, which will make punishing it even easier. It does murder people when you land it, though--VERY powerful attack. Maybe it will come into its own over time, but it's hard to find reliable uses for it right now.

His custom Down-Bs are a disappointment, IMO. Perhaps with the exception of very specific attacks (maybe Samus Neutral-B, ZSS Forward-B, Mega Man F-Smash), the Projectile Counter doesn't come out fast enough to punish the things it seems to be meant to punish. The distance covered off-stage is huge, but regular Down-B already gets good distance with it, so it's hard to see much benefit. The Weak Counter doesn't seem to properly combo into a lot of things after low percents, but that might be character-specific against floaties. Either way, it's awful for recovery, doesn't move far enough to punish well-spaced options, and usually doesn't net you much reward, in my experience. Stick with his already-great regular Down-B.

tl;dr--Fire Neutral-B, Regular Forward-B, Regular or Tornado Up-B depending on playstyle (leaning toward the latter, myself), Regular Down-B. I hath decreed it.

 

[mimgrim]

See. I don't see a noticeable distance between Uspecial 1 and Uspecial 2, but do see a noticeable shorter distance in Uspecial 3.

But eh.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do it while you're not falling and it should be apparent to you. That's why that text was in bold.

Oh, and if it wasn't apparent, grounded Up-B has much more range than aerial Up-B, as well.

 

[mimgrim]

I already knew that. Still don't see a noticeable difference between Uspecial 1 and 2 whether it be from the ground, from a jump, or while falling. The only noticeable difference I see is between Uspecial 1 and Uspecial 3, with Uspecial 3 being much shorter.

Seriously. The "increased" distance of Uspecial 2 looks non-existence to me.

 

[ChampKing]

Mac's third Side B seems quite good to me. Unlike the original Haymaker it has super armor in the air. Shorter distance but easier to deal with attempted aerial gimps as you can smash right through the aerial.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Takes too long; really easy to react to and avoid, IMO. Doesn't have the flexibility of the regular Forward-B.