Opinions on Ike Competitively?

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I was craving some good ol' Ike discussion, so I figured I'd open a thread.

Matchups with the cast:
I feel like he does relatively well against the game's top characters. Like in Brawl where he had slightly disadvantaged matchups against the top end of the cast, but Meta Knight utterly destroyed him in their matchup. Since Meta Knight doesn't have an extreme edge over Ike here, I feel Ike's worst matchup is now Sheik, but even that matchup seems like a 60/40 or 65/35 at worst in my experience.
Mostly, I feel that he's more even with a lot of top/high characters rather than slightly disadvantaged like in Brawl. There's just a few that I feel a slight disadvantage from.
He has trouble with campy players using characters who excel at it, so I feel those matchups are bad for Ike, but not too bad.
It doesn't feel like Ike has any unwinnables, even Sheik mains haven't made me feel it. This makes me think that Ike's a lot better than people give him credit for. Solo Ike or backing him up with a secondary seems highly viable for tournament, I've done both successfully over wifi tournaments since October, managing a 1st here and there.

Stages:
What do you feel Ike's best stages are in both the 3DS and Wii U?
My opinions:
3DS:
Final Destination: Bad.
Battlefield: Good.
Yoshi's: Unsure, leaning towards even/slightly good.
Ferox: Good, probably Ike's best 3DS stage despite how I feel about FD.
Prism Tower: Average or slightly good, I'm unsure.
Wii U:
Final Destination: Bad.
Battlefield: Good.
Delfino: Still really good.
Kongo: Unsure. Probably bad.
Skyloft: Unsure. Probably good since it's similar to Delfino, or just average.
Lylat: Slightly good.
Castle Siege: Average or slightly bad.
Town and City: Bad or average.
Smashville: Slightly good.
Wuhu: Good.
Halberd: Great.

Comparison to the cast:
I think Ike is a solid upper-mid tier, borderline between high and upper-mid, or at least close. I've asked players like NAKAT their opinions on Ike in Smash 4, and they usually say "in the 30's." After seeing some good Ikes while taking notes on what they do to bend over some of the best characters, and utilizing him pretty well in a variety of matchups and against a few top players and a lot of other players, I feel like he's one of the better characters in the game, instead of being in the bottom half. Not the best, but still one of the better characters. If you put work into Ike, there's really nothing stopping a good Ike main from making it to the top. It feels like he has to put in a lot of work to be as efficient as some of the best characters, but it doesn't mean he's very limited. That's why I think he's a solid upper-mid near high. I want to see more Ike mains tear through brackets, since I know Ike has the potential to.

Where would you place him compared to the cast?

Any other input? I couldn't think of anything else to throw here since I have to go to work soon, and this is already a lot to read.

 

[⑨ball]

Upper-mid sounds about right. I've been thinking for a while now that the distance between tiers in this game aren't going to be as polarizing as in other games and it shouldn't be too surprising for us to see underused characters coming out and doing well every once in a while.

That said Ike feels really good in this game, buffs on top of passive buffs make Ike even more of a force to be reckoned with and it seems Ike is constantly benefiting from discoveries that could shape the future of the metagame.

Shield is really really good in Smash 4 so Ike doesn't even mind campy characters that much, which is also why I don't think FD is bad for him. Not as good for him as BF maybe, but he's not really dreading going there unless it's certain MUs like maybe Pikachu or Sonic.

 

[Yoh]

Yeah I also feel like Ike should be somewhere around upper Mid or even lower Hightier. He is good at racking up Damage with his combos and better speed, he has throw combos until high percentages,QD with no lag is awesome as movement tool, he has some good reliable kill options, his recovery is at least decent here unlike Brawl, he is safe on many moves if spaced correct and he has not so many problems with projectiles anymore since most of them got nerfed.
He is still awesome on Delfino and ridicoulus on Halberd lol

Where Ike kinda sucks in my opinion is, that he is vulnerable to those almost "true" combos, when you are not facing the enemy with your back for an bair, he can only airdodge or use counter perhaps, but both are very risky, also I find it kinda difficult to land once in the air, he is kinda vulnerable to juggling.

Matchupwise I can´t really say much until know, I have some problems with fast characters like Sheik, Diddy Kong, Greninja, Fox but I think I´m doing something wrong here or they are just difficult to learn to play against, I dunno.
Had my first Smash 4 offline tourney last week and placed 7 out of 90 with Ike only, but there is much room to get better, I feel really motivated to bring Ike to his limits and train really hard, since he seems so good.

 

[underpowered]

What kind of combos does Ike have beyond dthrow to upB? Just curious. I play Ike as a secondary and really like him...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Upper Mid is exactly right. Would guess he has about the potential had before. He's just a solid character overall, but with obvious weaknesses, that might be easier to exploit than others. But he has his definite strenght to! Very good spacing game, very strong, good anti-air coverage with Aether, vastly improved Side and Neutral B, and AAA is still great.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

What kind of combos does Ike have beyond dthrow to upB? Just curious. I play Ike as a secondary and really like him...

San the man himself has a video of a good amount of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_6TIb7WEA4

Sometimes neutral air or down tilt into random stuff counts as a true combo at certain amounts of damage in training mode, it depends if I get a hit immediately after.

That said Ike feels really good in this game, buffs on top of passive buffs make Ike even more of a force to be reckoned with and it seems Ike is constantly benefiting from discoveries that could shape the future of the metagame.

Shield is really really good in Smash 4 so Ike doesn't even mind campy characters that much, which is also why I don't think FD is bad for him. Not as good for him as BF maybe, but he's not really dreading going there unless it's certain MUs like maybe Pikachu or Sonic.

Rage, rage, rage mechanic is helping Ike so much. The patch also REALLY helped, I saw Ike as mid-tier potential before that, and it was revolutionary to his ability to approach or defensively space with aerials, and I consider forward tilt to be really good now. I also need to shield more, I sometimes face a really good Link (I don't have this problem with TLink for some reason but a good number of my friends have mained him in Project M and here so I have MU EXP) who I have trouble going in on, and even if I read his habits, I still can't really punish the player. I need Link experience more than anything to truly judge Ike vs. characters that can wall him with projectiles.

Yeah I also feel like Ike should be somewhere around upper Mid or even lower Hightier. He is good at racking up Damage with his combos and better speed, he has throw combos until high percentages,QD with no lag is awesome as movement tool, he has some good reliable kill options, his recovery is at least decent here unlike Brawl, he is safe on many moves if spaced correct and he has not so many problems with projectiles anymore since most of them got nerfed.
He is still awesome on Delfino and ridicoulus on Halberd lol

Sometimes I think he's lower-high as well. I love short hop QD for movement and the rage mechanic REALLY helps his kill options, I get to 140-170 on at least 2/3 of my stocks with Ike because of good DI+recovery, which makes most of my victories with Ike 2-3 stock wins. I can't say that about other characters I sometimes use. A lot of characters have to snap to the ledge in Smash 4's meta for recovery, and Ike can simply QD above his opponent and end up in the middle or other end of the stage, or on a platform safely which is beautiful. Now that Marth/Lucina can't space as well as Marth did in previous games, I feel like Ike is the new king of spacing, and how quickly I can act after neutral or forward airs really helps with how safe he is.

Where Ike kinda sucks in my opinion is, that he is vulnerable to those almost "true" combos, when you are not facing the enemy with your back for an bair, he can only airdodge or use counter perhaps, but both are very risky, also I find it kinda difficult to land once in the air, he is kinda vulnerable to juggling.

Upper Mid is exactly right. Would guess he has about the potential had before. He's just a solid character overall, but with obvious weaknesses, that might be easier to exploit than others. But he has his definite strenght to! Very good spacing game, very strong, good anti-air coverage with Aether, vastly improved Side and Neutral B, and AAA is still great.

Yeah, it's part of why I feel the Sheik matchup is a pain for Ike. I sometimes throw out my second jump/QD/Aether, and neutral air seems to work often. I feel the pain from Sheik's juggling skills, but once I get in the Sheik player's head simply from them getting overconfident after seeing Ike struggle and going HAM, that's when I start to avoid juggles and start juggling her, or putting the same pressure on her. She takes a while to punish it because she can't space like Ike, and Ike has a great jab and grab. Other than that, his anti-air options are better than ever with airdodge lag, forcing an opponent into a bad position whether they airdodge or not which lets me charge Ike's up smash a bit or just throw it out, and like I said earlier, Ike might be the king of spacing or one of the rulers of spacing now that Marth/Lucina aren't as prevalent in spacing as previous iterations of Marth.

Matchupwise I can´t really say much until know, I have some problems with fast characters like Sheik, Diddy Kong, Greninja, Fox but I think I´m doing something wrong here or they are just difficult to learn to play against, I dunno.

Fox is my worst matchup player-wise, I need more practice on him. No matter who I'm using, I seem to have trouble, except with Falco. I chose him as a secondary in 3DS days to deal with Ike's bad matchups, and he does an excellent job at covering them. I feel like Falco's underrated, not as much as Ike, but he still fits the secondary role for Ike just as perfectly as I thought he would. Falco's been my make-or-break for some of my biggest sets, I wouldn't have taken 1st in a 40-something offline event and a 30-something online event without Falco. Pikachu's another good secondary for Ike, I feel. I am grinding out the matchups, and finding Diddy/Greninja pretty even over time. If I can learn to fight Fox and Sheik better, I may no longer need a secondary.

Had my first Smash 4 offline tourney last week and placed 7 out of 90 with Ike only, but there is much room to get better, I feel really motivated to bring Ike to his limits and train really hard, since he seems so good.

Great job on that! First tournament in any situation (whether it's your first tournament overall, or even just for the game) with 7th out of anything is excellent. Most players get dead last or the spot before last in their first tournament, you're only going to place higher over time from here. If you do place lower next time, don't be discouraged, it's part of being relatively new to tournaments for anything. NAKAT has some really good stuff to say here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHBuY5dsBpk
Keep going with Ike, he has what it takes.

Edit: Sorry guys, I probably butchered the quote feature. I don't know how to show who the quote is from, I was never really tech-savvy with Smashboards

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I posted in another thread, but I faced a player and I was doing better using Mario, Captain Falcon, Robin, Bowser, and Shulk. He was seriously giving my Ike trouble.

I use the above characters a fraction of the time in comparison.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I posted in another thread, but I faced a player and I was doing better using Mario, Captain Falcon, Robin, Bowser, and Shulk. He was seriously giving my Ike trouble.

Maybe just an off-day for Ike? Or just the player being good at the Ike MU/his characters being good at it? I only know the characters you used and not the ones he used.

I spent three years maining Marth in Melee when I got back into it in 2010, and did better with Sheik in early 2013 almost never using her, so I switched to her, then switched to Roy mid 2013 and continued playing him due to favoritism of his character and game, and he's now my best character. It was hard to accept that Marth was not my best character after putting in hundreds of hours, but that might be the case for you with Ike. Ike might not be the right or optimal character for you, even if you put the most time into him. In Smash 4, almost no characters fit me, while Ike fits me better than the others, so I've found the most success with him which is part of why I think he has what it takes in competitive play. But, if Ike doesn't fit you at the moment, think of my situation with Roy where he became my best character simply by sticking with him long enough to feel like I mastered him. I don't think I could have done that with another character or would have had as much fun so far doing that with another character. With time, if you stick with Ike, I feel like you're going to master Ike to the point where you won't run into a situation where more than one secondary would do better in a set. Most notably, my three years with Marth were with a group of players rather than expanding my horizons to tournaments in 2013 and 2014, that's when I truly started to know what it takes to master a character.

Plus, Captain Falcon and Mario are generally regarded as very good. I think Ike's around Mario status, and a bit below Captain Falcon, the upper-mid/high discussion that's been going on. Robin's generally regarded as top 15, unsure about Booser and Shulk since a lot of opinions vary but I think they're both very good.

 

[Oblivion129]

The thing about placing him in a tier list is that, although Ike has potential for upper-mid, so does pretty much every character.
So the placing he receives will depend on how good the Ike reps do in tourneys.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

The thing about placing him in a tier list is that, although Ike has potential for upper-mid, so does pretty much every character.
So the placing he receives will depend on how good the Ike reps do in tourneys.

That's a good thing though. Shows this game is the most balanced out of the entire series. Granted, I'm pretty sure Ike is going to get a higher spot than Palutena, Dr. Mario, and a few of the more obvious ones. But compared to Brawl, he's definitely in the upper echelon of the tier list.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Not all characters can be or have upper-mid/high potential, Ike is a (no pun intended) cut above the rest. There is going to be a low tier, bottom tier, etc. no matter how well balanced the game seems.

 

[Oblivion129]

That's a good thing though. Shows this game is the most balanced out of the entire series. Granted, I'm pretty sure Ike is going to get a higher spot than Palutena, Dr. Mario, and a few of the more obvious ones. But compared to Brawl, he's definitely in the upper echelon of the tier list.

Even those character have potential. They're good but looked over.
I feel that aside from the obvious high tiers, the rest will depend on tournament placings for the tier list.

I wouldn't worry about this, though. If you feel a character is good, you can make him good regardless of tier.

 

[Hyrule Candy]

I don't see upper mid tbh, i can only see just mid.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I fully agree on that.

...If this was pre-patch, but seeing his patch changes made me see him as an upper-mid/lower-high instead of a mid.

 

[underpowered]

How do people feel about the Rob matchup by the way? I had a super frustrating time with my friend in friendlies the other day playing Rob over and over. He seems faster, he has better range options... so I had a tough time approaching but if I didn't approach I felt I was at a disadvantage.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

R.O.B is an annoying matchup for swordsmen here. In favor for R.O.B, but not by too much. I certainly need more R.O.B EXP.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Even those character have potential. They're good but looked over.
I feel that aside from the obvious high tiers, the rest will depend on tournament placings for the tier list.

I wouldn't worry about this, though. If you feel a character is good, you can make him good regardless of tier.

That's only because this game was balanced so well. Ike was crippled in Brawl and so was everyone outside of top tier. It was sad.

 

[Oblivion129]

Improved recovery/air mobility and the new ledge mechanic really helped balance out the characters. I really like what they've done in Smash 4.

How do people feel about the Rob matchup by the way? I had a super frustrating time with my friend in friendlies the other day playing Rob over and over. He seems faster, he has better range options... so I had a tough time approaching but if I didn't approach I felt I was at a disadvantage.

You want to be at a range where his grab and Dsmash don't reach you, but not far enough for him to charge his Down B freely.
Once you're in that range, your jab, a well-spaced Nair, or grab work great to get you in an advantageous position. You should also bait out his attacks and punish him. Shield if you know he won't grab.
Once you have ROB in the air, you'd want to juggle him. Be aware of ROB's Nair and bait it out and punish.

ROB can gimp you easily by using two Fairs offstage. To avoid this, save your second jump for after he finished using his second Fair. Same goes for other characters like Sheik.

 

[underpowered]

Cool, thanks for the advice, Oblivion. Yeah, just... Ike can be so slow in my hands that the spacing is hard to maintain. I keep getting caught out by stupid things like his Arm Rotor.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Gotta jab, down tilt, neutral air, grab, back air, up tilt, etc. more to get the most speed

out of Ike.

 

[Baggy]

One of the players I was doing friendlies with at s@x (I forgot his name) mentioned to me during our match that tourneys may start allowing custom moves into competitive play. I never even glanced at Ike's before he mentioned that but after I did, I think some of his customs (particularly the superarmor QD and stun counter) could really boost his game up.

But I guess the drawback would be: everybody else's game would boost too. Any thoughts?

 

[Brinzy]

If customs get put into tournaments, Palutena will actually be better than Ike.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Too bad Ike's a godslayer.

 

[underpowered]

Palutena is really already competitive with her default move set, honestly.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

She's weak, though. Decent melee attributes, but her lack of specials honestly feels reminiscent of Ike in Brawl. Remember how Eruption, Quick Draw, and Counter were almost worthless? That's how I feel about Autoreticle, Reflect, and Counter. Giving her Super Speed, Angelic Missile, Lightweight, and Celestial Firework just makes her better in every way. More options to kill and even some to evade.

 

[Planet God Venus]

R.O.B is an annoying matchup for swordsmen here. In favor for R.O.B, but not by too much. I certainly need more R.O.B EXP.

How do you figure ROB wins that match up? I believe Ike wins it lol.

 

[Arrei]

One of the players I was doing friendlies with at s@x (I forgot his name) mentioned to me during our match that tourneys may start allowing custom moves into competitive play. I never even glanced at Ike's before he mentioned that but after I did, I think some of his customs (particularly the superarmor QD and stun counter) could really boost his game up.

But I guess the drawback would be: everybody else's game would boost too. Any thoughts?

Unyielding Blade is much too slow and travels far too little to be of any use - instead, Close Combat sacrifices a little damage to give Ike the ability to clank out projectiles using his body itself, as well as negating what little risk there was left of getting gimped because you QDed into an opponent offstage. Stun counter is just too short to get anything useful out of it.

His most useful customs will probably be Furious Eruption for the ridiculous active frames on the blast in exchange for slightly reduced damage and kill power, and Aether Drive for giving him actual diagonal recovery, so what Ike really stands to gain is absolutely terrifying ledgesnap guarding against opponents with no or unwieldy projectiles and more recovery options, either a diagonal angle in Aether Drive or quicker movement in Aether Wave to thwart gimping efforts.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Unyielding Blade is much too slow and travels far too little to be of any use - instead, Close Combat sacrifices a little damage to give Ike the ability to clank out projectiles using his body itself, as well as negating what little risk there was left of getting gimped because you QDed into an opponent offstage. Stun counter is just too short to get anything useful out of it.

His most useful customs will probably be Furious Eruption for the ridiculous active frames on the blast in exchange for slightly reduced damage and kill power, and Aether Drive for giving him actual diagonal recovery, so what Ike really stands to gain is absolutely terrifying ledgesnap guarding against opponents with no or unwieldy projectiles and more recovery options, either a diagonal angle in Aether Drive or quicker movement in Aether Wave to thwart gimping efforts.

I hate Paralyzing Counter a lot, but to be frank, I have to acknowledge that it's useful in some of Ike's harder matchups. Ike's hardest matchups to my understanding aren't usually characters that hit extremely hard, but ones that effectively annoy him to death. Paralyzing counter, used correctly, is more rewarding against these characters when Default Counter doing only like 10-12% isn't very impressive, but getting a U-tilt from Paralyzing Counter at moderately high percents in contrast is better.

Don't get me wrong, I actually believe that regular Counter is more practical in a larger number of matchups and by itself, it does what it's supposed to. But Paralyzing Counter is an option that can't be ignored.

I share the sentiments that Ike reasonably seems upper mid tier right now. I think he's very well balanced on default settings, but kinda crazy with customs because Close Combat...is actually just kinda silly. Eruption customs and Aether Drive also help Ike deal with his other big problem which is linear edgeguard options. An Ike that can edgeguard you is very scary, and I feel on default settings, his edgeguard potential is very deliberately gated.

 

[Chocoroko]

I'm learning to improve my smash skills using Ike, and I've come to appreciate him more in Smash 4. Controlling him while working with his speed/attack is my challenge. His animations make him open for vulnerability, but he still delivers powerful hits. Thankfully his counter (like Marth and the rest) could come in handy when you least expect it.

Either way, I've had Ike as my main since Smash 3DS/Wii U both released, and I'm loving the progress so far I want to acheive. I'd like to match up with someone 1-on-1 to get more experience by other Ike mains.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

He's actually pretty safe with a lot of stuff if you consistently do things like 1-2 jabs instead of 1-2-3 on shield, maximize back air spacing so it's safe on shield, make full advantage of the autocancels on aerials (nair and fair mainly come to mind), grab more since his grab is pretty good, and maximize his mobility.

 

[Izanagi97]

I'll just put this video of PheonixMaster being a badass

 

[Chocoroko]

Wow those are some neat moves. I especially like the standard B on the edges off the stage. The grab and strike attack off the stage is also pretty strategic as well.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How do you figure ROB wins that match up? I believe Ike wins it lol.

Stupidly good grab range, tons of damage options at close and long range, hard to punish. If they counterpick Halberd, you're in trouble.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

One of my state's top players mains R.O.B and it hurts.

But I'll truly unlock Ike, and it'll hurt for them, then they won't want me to bring them to anything that isn't Halberd.

 

[Trunks159]

Stupidly good grab range, tons of damage options at close and long range, hard to punish. If they counterpick Halberd, you're in trouble.

Youre just stating things that make Rob good. What exactly does he have against Ike? Ike combos rob easily, due to Robs weight. Robs boxing game isnt as good as Ikes (ikes jab, dtilt, grab combos) and his camping game isnt good enough to wall off ike. I feel its in ikes favor.

 

[LoganS97]

I have noticed when doing matches, Ike is better in doubles because he is slow, and in doubles its not that big of a deal, where as in singles, almost any character (short of Bowser and Dedede) just end up running circles around him.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Ike is really good in doubles.

 

[AdventCross]

Youre just stating things that make Rob good. What exactly does he have against Ike? Ike combos rob easily, due to Robs weight. Robs boxing game isnt as good as Ikes (ikes jab, dtilt, grab combos) and his camping game isnt good enough to wall off ike. I feel its in ikes favor.

It's those strengths that often give Ike a difficult time (well not difficult but more irritating to deal with), at least from what I've seen from my Bro play as a Rob player. Granted Ike has more range, and has an easier time with less cool down on some of his techniques.

I haven't experimented with Ike enough in Smash4, but I imagine that his platform game is still good, if not better compared to brawl, and R.O.B. doesn't have many options to retaliate from above (still watch out for his meteor off stage).

Also, what are some of the major changes to Ike from Brawl that I should probably be aware of?

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Also, what are some of the major changes to Ike from Brawl that I should probably be aware of?

Ike is much better overall. Your opponents are the ones who should be aware of this most.

Dtilt doesn't spike anymore (I could be wrong), fair is much more lenient on timing, specials are much better, no more going prone from hitting with QD, no ledgehogging means Ike has much safer recovery and isn't forced into as few options as Brawl, better throws with a terrific down throw, and no -3 (unwinnable) MK matchup anymore.

Radiant Dawn is also a god-tier Fire Emblem, and it's good to see representation via Ike's new look. He has his original clothing in Brawl, Hector armor in Project M, and Radiant Dawn armor in Smash 4. There's a different look to look forward to in each of those, which is a really nice change via Smash 4 Ike. We just need that Lord gear, which Brawl Vault has plenty of.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Stupidly good grab range, tons of damage options at close and long range, hard to punish. If they counterpick Halberd, you're in trouble.

Ban Halberd, stay mid range punish gyros and lazers by not getting hit by them