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Opinion. Though better, Link will never be competitive.

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8bit.Trotz

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Hey guys.
First off I wanna say, that if you're reading this thread, on this board, I respect the hell out of you.
I admire my fellow Link players because unlike the gimmicky or upper tier characters, we need to be so damn precise and workmanlike to earn our kills and our wins. So props to you all.

That being said, I truly believe that in time, as the metagame continues to progress, the general consensus on link will be: "improved", but not viable. As a link vet, to hear some people argue with conviction that he's top 10, or that anyone who brings up his faults just needs to zone better/ be smarter with projectiles / infuriates the hell out of me, as I truly wonder if they've encountered enough high level players that know how to easily exploit his glaring weaknesses.

He is indeed improved, and definitely the strongest he's been - the issue is that he's not the only fighter to have done so and unfortunately his scale relative to the competition simply hasn't kept up.

I've ranted on before about one of his main weaknesses, in lack of reliable kill moves. In short I truly believe that he has a single one. His d smash. Ftilt can also punish at high percentages, but as a go to kill move, the DSmash holds too many advantages over his other options. Usmash needs to be very precise to punish the forward roll, but is extremely risky because of it's frames. Forward smash has both long starting frames and whiffs on the killing blow more than half the time especially if your opponent is light (which most of his terrible matchup to begin with are) - not reliable at all. Spin attack, absolutely useless with pathetic knock back and risk reward. Dair wouldn't be able to skewer a goldeen this time around, and his dash attack is probably the most disappointing move in his entire arsenal - if you manage to kill with the dash attack, congrats. Your opponent mistimed his shield/air dodge. It won't happen again.

Now the inability to effectively kill wouldn't be so bad if Link, like countless other characters actually had the ability to finish off the job once his opponent is knocked off stage. This.... THIS is what I've realized it all boils down to. The very fact that after racking up damage, and finally knocking that (advanced) opponent off, there's nothing you can do against way too many members of the cast. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the average player here who'll predictably set up a perfect opportunity for a dair spike or fair... Like his struggles on the ground, there's no viable option to fight off stage - the risk/reward simply isn't in his favour. far, FAR from it. This results in opponents making it back much too easily, then rinse and repeat.
We've all been there. Facing decent players at 150% that you just know will take perfect planning to finally KO without a chance of a comeback. There's no easy kills with link.. It's a constant battle of attrition.

Finally to top it all off, after having worked tirelessly to get your kill, guess what.
You get knocked off stage at 70 percent because you misstimed your smash... You're facing, rob, Mario, falcon, lucina, pit, diddy, luigi, Yoshi, shulk, etc etc....you're momentum is stopped. You're a goner.

Much has been said about Link's improved recovery - and I agree that it is much improved. Unfortunately spraying a turd with febreeze won't make it smell much better. It'll still ****ing stink.
Now , I'm not talking about his survivability after being knocked off, because I really do think the momentum that he gains after D.I.ing is incredibly solid. That's not the issue. The issue is predictability. PREDICTABILITY. If you're fortunate enough to have been knocked out high, great he has options. But the minute the clawshot isn't an option, is the minute he's done against a good opponent, who'll be waiting there to punish you on the last frames of your spin, or before it starts, or simply by priority (which several characters have). You can't be crafty with Link, and any player worth his salt knows this. The off stage options of far too many characters is extremely scary for any fighter with a predictable comeback, and link is among the most punishable in the game.

I think these 3 main factors sum up the problem with my good ol ' main.
He can't finish the Job well on 2 fronts and can be easily finished off at moderate percentages by a load of bad matchups or players that simply know how he functions. The odds when fighting opponents of equal/greater skill are simply stacked against him.

But hey, I LOVE his air game. Shame the ever amazing nairs, bairs, and zairs, are useless without the ability to wrap things up.

Sorry for the rant,
I hope I'll get some honest agreements instead of what link players are used to hearing...
ZONE BETTER. KEEP MOVING WITH YOUR PROJECTILES. SWITCH IT UP.
Been there, done that, still do ;)

Edit: yes, I have seen great links in guys like Kirin, or brimeZ... Inspiring stuff, but still not good enough.
 
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DeTa

Smash Apprentice
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I feel like the loss of his semi-spike has really hurt his game. Not to mention that his wavedash also moves a lot shorter than many other characters in the roster, which really lowers his potential and places him in low tier.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
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You should check out Izaw, his Link could definitely provide you with some pointers to help you improve.
 

PKBeam

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ah, is this going to...
well it is off topic...
yeah... you might want to move it to the metagame discussion before they get here.
I think you've caught them sleeping, so you have perhaps 7 hours.
good luck.
 
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Zelkam

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I feel like the loss of his semi-spike has really hurt his game.
We may have lost the semi-spike, but our Dtilt spikes now. I think this is radically gonna change Link's game.

You should check out Izaw, his Link could definitely provide you with some pointers to help you improve.
Have you watched his "Art of Link" video? That stuff is inspiring.

Forward smash has both long starting frames and whiffs on the killing blow more than half the time
But the best part about it is that we get two swings. So if you whiff the first swing you've got the second one ready to go.

Spin attack, absolutely useless with pathetic knock back and risk reward.
I really hate it how they changed it so you have to charge it up to get any real knowback now. :/ Also, like Deta mentioned, the removal of the semi-spike really hurts.

Now the inability to effectively kill wouldn't be so bad if Link, like countless other characters actually had the ability to finish off the job once his opponent is knocked off stage.
two words...gale guarding

But the minute the clawshot isn't an option, is the minute he's done against a good opponent, who'll be waiting there to punish you on the last frames of your spin, or before it starts, or simply by priority (which several characters have).
Yeah, our hookshot recovery got nerfed hard. No longer able to attach to any vertical surface, and now that airdodges can't be shifted we lost that little extra bit of distance. Not to mention that the range on it is so much worse. Yoshi's Island can be a good stage to help with recovery because of bomb jumping by throwing the bomb at the wall. Unfortunately that's the only stage it works on so if your opponent goes somewhere else you're screwed.
 

Elessar

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I have to agree with the OP though. I mean, what have they done to Link's nair? Now it's like watered-down version of the previous glory. It's still good, but the hitbox isn't as good as it used to be.

Though to be honest the change that makes me cringe the most is definitely the loss of the rang in favour of the gale. Like seriously, why change that for a move that has only one hitbox going out. I sure hope they give us back the rang in the next game and that this gale business is a one game only deal.
 

Ryu_Ken

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Once Link gets the upper hand, it's hard to bring him down. Link is a hard character to win with, but he is really awesome once put in the right hands.
 

8bit.Trotz

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Moved :)
ah, is this going to...
well it is off topic...
yeah... you might want to move it to the metagame discussion before they get here.
I think you've caught them sleeping, so you have perhaps 7 hours.
good luck.
 

Vonzar the Soulrender

4th Dimensional Horror
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I know Link is lacking in kill moves but I think his nair can really make up for a lot. You can even hit someone with nair twice, just hit A again as the move is ending and you get two hitboxes for the price of one. Try platform canceling dair into nair, or instead of approaching just waveland into bomb. utilt-uair is a legit combo as long as you remember to Lcancel the uair into nair. Link's hookshot is also a really good recovery, extremely long reach and can easily hit an approaching opponent, giving you a chance to grab the ledge and then let go and gimp the opponent. Try learning your wavedash timing and spacing and you'll do better. I think Link is solid mid tier this game.
 

Elessar

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I know Link spams, but that doesn't mean we tolerate spam in here, so don't double post again.

You know, Link seems to be really bad this time around guys. I mean, he feels slow and heavy and we lost our nair combos and I even got grabbed over and over by Falco today without being able to do anything. I think that MU might be bad for us. I think I might pick up an alt. Wolf seems fun, at least he's not so much of a clone as Falco is, though they have changed Falco quite a bit. His nair isn't exactly like Fox's anymore and he now kicks his reflector. That's kinda cool.
 
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I know Link spams, but that doesn't mean we tolerate spam in here, so don't double post again.

You know, Link seems to be really bad this time around guys. I mean, he feels slow and heavy and we lost our nair combos and I even got grabbed over and over by Falco today without being able to do anything. I think that MU might be bad for us. I think I might pick up an alt. Wolf seems fun, at least he's not so much of a clone as Falco is, though they have changed Falco quite a bit. His nair isn't exactly like Fox's anymore and he now kicks his reflector. That's kinda cool.
You should play against a D3, or maybe the Ice Climbers this time around, there is nothing quite like being grabbed for literal days.

Put down your controller and go make a sandwich, man.
 

Elessar

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You should play against a D3, or maybe the Ice Climbers this time around, there is nothing quite like being grabbed for literal days.

Put down your controller and go make a sandwich, man.
Really? But how can Ice climbers do that? I mean, I know it's two chars but I don't think it'll be possible to grab so fast with only one right?

But seriously, that Falco one made me rage a bit. He just grabbed me across the entire stage and then daired me at hte ledge. there was nothing I could do.
 
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Yeah, with how easily we're chain grabbed this time around, OP may have a point, I'm worried we will never be competitive this edition of smash. And our recovery... Just awful.
 

Elessar

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Speaking of recovery, what did they do to our upB? I mean, not only have we lost our semi spike but it also travels less and has less horizontal momentum. Like really, after the master piece that the previous game was we get this disappointment? I swear it's like Sakurai hates Link or something.

Btw, I was dashing today, and I tripped. Yeah, you read that right, Link freaking tripped. What the hell is that about?
 
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Speaking of recovery, what did they do to our upB? I mean, not only have we lost our semi spike but it also travels less and has less horizontal momentum. Like really, after the master piece that the previous game was we get this disappointment? I swear it's like Sakurai hates Link or something.

Btw, I was dashing today, and I tripped. Yeah, you read that right, Link freaking tripped. What the hell is that about?
I've been noticing this too, like some kind of phantom banana or something. It's bull****, and I hope we get patches now that we're on the Wii and we have online capabilities. It wouldn't take much coding to fix something like this. Maybe they'd even give us a little actual priority is we asked nicely?
 

Elessar

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I've been noticing this too, like some kind of phantom banana or something. It's bull****, and I hope we get patches now that we're on the Wii and we have online capabilities. It wouldn't take much coding to fix something like this. Maybe they'd even give us a little actual priority is we asked nicely?
But I don't get how something as glaring as tripping can be a glitch, so I don't think that we'd be getting patches, even if we now finally have online. I think that Sakurai did it on purpose. I can't understand why he'd sabotage his own game like that, but i just don't understand why he would include that in the game. Does he hate us or something?
 

LightLelouch89

Smash Cadet
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Speaking of recovery, what did they do to our upB? I mean, not only have we lost our semi spike but it also travels less and has less horizontal momentum. Like really, after the master piece that the previous game was we get this disappointment? I swear it's like Sakurai hates Link or something.

Btw, I was dashing today, and I tripped. Yeah, you read that right, Link freaking tripped. What the hell is that about?
Gotta be a glitch considering Sakurai flat out said there wouldn't be any tripping.
 
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Elessar

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Smash 4's been announced? HALLELUJAH.
But so soon? I mean, this new game has ju...

Ok, enough is enough. We had our fun but this turned too old too fast, specially considering that you, @ 8 8bit.Trotz , posted this same thread in the Brawl forums, verbatim. You are obviously trolling and, despite when you created this thread, still know very little about the game. As such, you shall be infracted for this desecration of our boards with this senseless whinning. Go read our board rules.

Oh, and @ LightLelouch89 LightLelouch89 This is for you.

Welcome to the Link Boards, scrub.

Thread Locked.
 

FSK

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Let Me Tell You Something 4bit I Have Extensive Competitive Experience With This Game I Have Over A 1000 Matches On For Glory And I Have A Win Ratio Of 80% With Link Only Link Has Received Many Buffs In This Game He Has Dash Attack That Kills Now and He Has A Dair Spike And He Has A Two-Hit Fsmash That Has Guaranteed Second Hit If You Know How And He Has New Up Air Animation And New Artstyle I Think That Link Has Become Better Character Now Because Of The Buffs I Know That Link Is Viable Because I Have Seen It In Myself On For Glory Also Izaw Shows How To Be Best With Link Link Was Mid-Tier In Brawl But Now I Think He Is High Tier And Can Win Tournaments Response?
 
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