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One of the most underrated characters

Kevandre

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I can't really speak much regarding competitive/tournament play, but it seems almost as if everyone unanimously thinks Zelda is a terribad character in Smash.

I... tend to really disagree. Zelda (Not Sheik though they're both good) was my secondary in Melee. Honestly, there were times she was my main. Her and Roy routinely competed for the spot, but in the end Roy was my favorite.

In Brawl, I got enough newcomers that I absolutely loved (Ivysaur, Lucas, Olimar & ROB are easily my favorites) that I kind of abandoned Zelda. Not because she was bad, but because she wasn't as good for me as some others.

In Smash 4, I'm pretty concerned about losing Ivysaur, Lucas, and to a lesser extent, ROB.. So up until Robin, Zelda and Olimar were the only characters I was thinking about seriously.

She's strong. She's got fantastic air game. She may be a bit slow, but honestly that's just not all that important. I'm not going as in depth into things such as landing lag and such, but I feel like she really is underrated as a whole. I can wreck with Zelda far better than I can wreck with Fox in Melee or Meta Knight in Brawl (Actually, Meta Knight is probably one of my worst, perhaps I am only worse with Lucario)... I just don't get it. But I guess you guys will throw some technical stuff at me (Like when people try to tell me that Marth was better than Roy, lol) or something. I just completely disagree.
 

Novice_Brave

Smash Journeyman
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I can't really speak much regarding competitive/tournament play, but it seems almost as if everyone unanimously thinks Zelda is a terribad character in Smash.

I... tend to really disagree. Zelda (Not Sheik though they're both good) was my secondary in Melee. Honestly, there were times she was my main. Her and Roy routinely competed for the spot, but in the end Roy was my favorite.

In Brawl, I got enough newcomers that I absolutely loved (Ivysaur, Lucas, Olimar & ROB are easily my favorites) that I kind of abandoned Zelda. Not because she was bad, but because she wasn't as good for me as some others.

In Smash 4, I'm pretty concerned about losing Ivysaur, Lucas, and to a lesser extent, ROB.. So up until Robin, Zelda and Olimar were the only characters I was thinking about seriously.

She's strong. She's got fantastic air game. She may be a bit slow, but honestly that's just not all that important. I'm not going as in depth into things such as landing lag and such, but I feel like she really is underrated as a whole. I can wreck with Zelda far better than I can wreck with Fox in Melee or Meta Knight in Brawl (Actually, Meta Knight is probably one of my worst, perhaps I am only worse with Lucario)... I just don't get it. But I guess you guys will throw some technical stuff at me (Like when people try to tell me that Marth was better than Roy, lol) or something. I just completely disagree.
It's great that you like Zelda so much, and I agree that she's super fun to play and can do some damage in the hands of someone who knows how to play her!

However, it's just unfortunately true that she is, compared to most characters in Melee/Brawl, not as good. Her aerial game is, unfortunately, not "fantastic" - three of her aerials are only useful when speetspotted, and only have a very small, one frame long sweetspot. Her up air is slow to start and slow to end, easy to dodge and easy to punish. Only her nair could possibly used to rack damage and give her something of a safe/non-super situationally good aerial - but even it is hard to land due to its strange hitbox that tends to hit too high and at a strange angle. Her sweetspotted aerials are fantastic kill moves - but sadly, they're hard to land, unsafe, and don't allow for any followup damage.

Her smashes, while seemingly strong as they are all fairly quick, do good damage, and have good knockback - are hindered in that two of them (forward and up) are multi-hit moves that are very easy to SDI out of, so she's not going to get the full damage or the strong final hit knockback - and is probably going to get hit as she finishes the long animation. This leaves down smash as her only fully reliable smash attack - but it is very good, I can't complain about it at all.

The lack of good aerials very much hinders her options of "approach" - it is hard to go on the offense as Zelda as you have to try to get close without any safe way to do so. This wouldn't be as big of a problem if she had a good projectile she could pressure opponents with and force them to approach her. Again, Din's is her only projectile (though now she has Phantom, so we'll see what happens with that!) and it is slow, easy to dodge, and leaves her vulnerable due to its high ending lag - and not only this, but it leaves her helpless in the air - gimping her off-stage options and leaving her open to getting hit even more easily if she uses it in the air on stage for some reason.

Farore's Wind, while a long-distance recovery, is not necessarily a very good one. It's... not the worst, per se, but it is very rigid in that it must travel in straight lines, doesn't automatically make her grab the ledge, gets stuck on obstructions, and allows for almost no horizontal movement after using it - meaning it will either fail to get her back to the stage due to lack of horizontal movement, or force her to travel straight down into a planned attack.

Add in the facts that she is tall,-and therefore an easy target for more moves and easier to hit sweetspots on - floaty, - meaning her aerial movement is slower, easier to gimp, and easier to KO - and fairly light - obviously meaning she gets knocked further earlier - and she simply has an unfavorable stat spread as well.

Now, I think that in the hands of less "technically" oriented players Zelda can be a very strong pick. For players who don't focus on shielding and dodging, Din's Fire goes from a move that almost never hits to one that almost always hits, and her smash attacks go from almost never being finished to almost always hitting and finishing with the full damage. In more technical play though, she is simply outclassed by many other fighters due to a bunch of unfortunate attributes that add up and bog her down.

Don't get me wrong, I love Zelda, and she and Ness are most definitely my Brawl mains - and I probably play more Zelda than I do Ness, overall. I just know what limits her and why it's so difficult to beat someone of the relative same skill level one-on-one if they're playing another fighter. I don't want to sound like I'm saying that I don't think Zelda will ever be good, because I think that Smash 4 Zelda is shaping up to be much stronger than Melee or Brawl Zelda - but I also know that she has a lot of obstacles to overcome, and a lot of technical issues that make her more difficult than she should have to be.

Sorry if you feel like I just threw a bunch of "technical" stuff at you, but that's really the reason she's so often looked down on - because honestly, if you're not playing with "technical" things in mind, she's actually quite good. The only way to really see why she's held so poorly is because the competitive community is talking about playing very technically, and within that style of play are the things that hold her back.

So yeah, I agree with you that I don't think she's very bad at all outside of competitive play. I've seen a lot of people seethe with rage when she's able to win by spammin' that Din's Fire and it never gets dodged, and I've seen a lot of people wreck with her smashes when they're not SDI'd out of. A lot of my casual player friends think she's "cheap" and overpowered, actually! It's really just when the technical stuff comes in that her faults seriously show.

But I'll always love and play her regardless of her tier placement, and I think things are looking up for Zelda fans in Smash 4!
 
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I adore playing as Zelda as she represents the mage class in Smash. Well...Robin does too, but she was the original mage in my book. Plus, I love her character and her attacks in general...all so flashy and awesome. xD
Point is, regardless of her tier position, I've always found a spot for her in my heart and in my roster.
 

Anop

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She isn´t one of the most underrated characters, she is THE MOST underrated character. And she has it´s reasons for being NU. Still, i love her and i will play her every freaking day no matter what :love:
 

Erotic&Heretic

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I also tend to agree that she is underrated, both in the competitive and casual scenes. In the competitive scene, it is true, she is not as good as the others characters, and I seriously hope that she will gain some ranks in SSB4, and that the tier list have less disparity in general. (but somehow, I like playing an underrated character :awesome:)

On the other hand, Zelda tends to be a character hard to learn for some beginners, so I think that she tends to be overlooked, compared to characters like Ike for example.
 

ihskeyp

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I loved melee Zelda, it took me a long time to master her though. Brawl Zelda wasn't as fun to use, in my opinion, but I still frequently use her.
Basically, with SDI not affecting her smashes anymore, and a few other buffs she's gotten, I think she has potential to be a more popular character this time around.
 

L2 Sentinel

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I loved melee Zelda, it took me a long time to master her though. Brawl Zelda wasn't as fun to use, in my opinion, but I still frequently use her.
Basically, with SDI not affecting her smashes anymore, and a few other buffs she's gotten, I think she has potential to be a more popular character this time around.
We don't know for certain that one cannot SDI out of her multi-hit smashes yet. While I am hopeful that that is the case, we haven't truly seen competitive Zelda gameplay, yet. It could be that every smash attack we've seen her do were escapable, but her opponents either didn't know how to escape them, were limited by the pro controller, or simply didn't react in time.
 

ihskeyp

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We don't know for certain that one cannot SDI out of her multi-hit smashes yet. While I am hopeful that that is the case, we haven't truly seen competitive Zelda gameplay, yet. It could be that every smash attack we've seen her do were escapable, but her opponents either didn't know how to escape them, were limited by the pro controller, or simply didn't react in time.
I guess, but it was pretty obvious in the gameplay that her up-smash pulls the opponent downward now, which would make DI'ing out of it pretty much impossible.
 

L2 Sentinel

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In theory. But we won't truly know that until we test it. But again, I'm certainly hopeful that it does work that way.
 

Rasko

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We have about a month till the japan release of the 3ds version. We'll have to wait till then to find out if some old mechanics return such as SDI. But i heard DI has been nerfed, so SDI may not be present in Smash 4.
 

The Pizza Guy

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For those of you who are worried about hits not connecting, I'd like to remind you that they managed to make the hits of Sonic's up smash connect much more reliably, so I wouldn't be too worried.
 

Rasko

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For those of you who are worried about hits not connecting, I'd like to remind you that they managed to make the hits of Sonic's up smash connect much more reliably, so I wouldn't be too worried.
So no smash DI in sm4sh. Or they nerfed it:upsidedown:.
 
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Maraphy

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"The lack of good aerials very much hinders her options of "approach" - it is hard to go on the offense as Zelda as you have to try to get close without any safe way to do so."

See, I think that's the thing - Zelda is the most defensive-oriented character in Smash. I think the majority of players try too hard to play her aggressively and offensively. And yes, you want to be aggressive with her to be effective! But you need to be aggressively defensive. She has fantastic defensive options, with several of her moves having huge, quick, lasting hitboxes. If you have an opponent who plays very offensively or if you can make them go on the offensive, Zelda's potential really shines.
 

Rasko

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Zelda shines as a defensive star and sheik shines as an offensive star. 2 halves of the same pie.
 
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RayaGRH

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I never, ever played Melee Zelda, but LOVED her in Brawl! For some reason, she just clicked for me, and now she's my number one favourite. I am a casual player...so I guess Zelda isn't that great if you look at competitive play...but for me, she's great! Love how so many of her moves pack so much punch.
 

RayaGRH

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I should also mention though that I was like...10 when I played Melee, and only used characters I knew. At the time, Zelda was just a knockoff Peach to me. :p

Before Brawl I actually played TLOZ series, and fell in love with it (especially TP, and that incarnation of Zelda). I'm really glad they changed Zelda to brunette. It makes her stand out, and she seems more mature and sophisticated.
 

Diddy Kong

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She's been terrible in two games, and overshadowed by a character consistantly being 2 full tiers higher than her. She's not underrated, she's just badly designed. :4sheik:
 

Katy Parry

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She's been terrible in two games, and overshadowed by a character consistantly being 2 full tiers higher than her. She's not underrated, she's just badly designed. :4sheik:
Cosmo says hi.

Zelda was always made with a defensive playstyle in mind - moreso, high risk, high reward. It even says on her trophy in Melee that she was designed as defensive. It makes a lot of sense to with Zelda's link to the Triforce of Wisdom, as well as even her battle stances, putting her hand to her chin, surveying the battlefield/opponents.

She's not the best character due to Melee's "bair-until-your-opponent-runs-into-it" style of play. But Cosmo, unlike many few players, definitely shows what she's capable of with a high mindset. She's perfect for countering.

She's truly a character in order to be great with, not only do you have to have a deeper understand of the game, and all of the character match ups, but you have to have patience and just know your limitations.

Cosmo is the perfect example of that.
 

SadisticPanda

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I completely agree with you. Zelda is apparently 'bad' to those who don't know how to use her. She's been my main since Melee (as my ID card to the left says:awesome:) and rarely switched to Sheik mid-battle, not saying Sheik is bad but I prefered the way Zelda fought. If I had to make my own tier list Zelda would be at the top for Melee, Brawl and PM, I know character preferences for one person isn't how tiers work but still.

I'll always main Zelda until the day Tharja is a newcomer. :4zelda:
 

Rasko

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Zelda is not poorly designed. Every character has a purpose in smash bros. Zelda just doesn't fit a lot of people's playstyles like mine. She is a definite underused character, hopefully SSB4 will change that for Zelda.
 
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Rasko

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She's been terrible in two games, and overshadowed by a character consistantly being 2 full tiers higher than her. She's not underrated, she's just badly designed. :4sheik:
I agree Sheik does overshadow Zelda but Zelda is not badly designed. Zelda just can't switch between offensive and defensive playstyles in the same match, unlike many high/top tiers in all the smash bros. Zelda was buffed in PM so her playstyle could work better. Ex.
 

Raph_the_Great

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I agree Sheik does overshadow Zelda but Zelda is not badly designed. Zelda just can't switch between offensive and defensive playstyles in the same match, unlike many high/top tiers in all the smash bros. Zelda was buffed in PM so her playstyle could work better. Ex.
Thanks for the vid, Even though I've seen a bunch of gameplay of Zelda in SSB4, that vid kinda gives me hope that they can buff Zelda in a way that makes her really good without changing up her moves too much.

I'm already excited about stronger Din's Fires and a stronger Faore's Wind. So if they can buff her in more ways then that's great!

Here's hoping that the Project M Din's fire or something like it makes it in as a custom move. :)
 

Rasko

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Thanks for the vid, Even though I've seen a bunch of gameplay of Zelda in SSB4, that vid kinda gives me hope that they can buff Zelda in a way that makes her really good without changing up her moves too much.

I'm already excited about stronger Din's Fires and a stronger Faore's Wind. So if they can buff her in more ways then that's great!

Here's hoping that the Project M Din's fire or something like it makes it in as a custom move. :)
I completely agree:).
If Sakurai gives a little bit bigger sweet spot on her aerials along side better followups for her tilts then Zelda will be able to hold her own in this iteration of SSB:upsidedown:. With some minor tweaks.
Your welcome btw, I love watching Zhime's Zelda so it's the least I could do:estatic:.
 
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BRoomer
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It's great that you like Zelda so much, and I agree that she's super fun to play and can do some damage in the hands of someone who knows how to play her!

However, it's just unfortunately true that she is, compared to most characters in Melee/Brawl, not as good. Her aerial game is, unfortunately, not "fantastic" - three of her aerials are only useful when speetspotted, and only have a very small, one frame long sweetspot. Her up air is slow to start and slow to end, easy to dodge and easy to punish. Only her nair could possibly used to rack damage and give her something of a safe/non-super situationally good aerial - but even it is hard to land due to its strange hitbox that tends to hit too high and at a strange angle. Her sweetspotted aerials are fantastic kill moves - but sadly, they're hard to land, unsafe, and don't allow for any followup damage.

Her smashes, while seemingly strong as they are all fairly quick, do good damage, and have good knockback - are hindered in that two of them (forward and up) are multi-hit moves that are very easy to SDI out of, so she's not going to get the full damage or the strong final hit knockback - and is probably going to get hit as she finishes the long animation. This leaves down smash as her only fully reliable smash attack - but it is very good, I can't complain about it at all.

The lack of good aerials very much hinders her options of "approach" - it is hard to go on the offense as Zelda as you have to try to get close without any safe way to do so. This wouldn't be as big of a problem if she had a good projectile she could pressure opponents with and force them to approach her. Again, Din's is her only projectile (though now she has Phantom, so we'll see what happens with that!) and it is slow, easy to dodge, and leaves her vulnerable due to its high ending lag - and not only this, but it leaves her helpless in the air - gimping her off-stage options and leaving her open to getting hit even more easily if she uses it in the air on stage for some reason.

Farore's Wind, while a long-distance recovery, is not necessarily a very good one. It's... not the worst, per se, but it is very rigid in that it must travel in straight lines, doesn't automatically make her grab the ledge, gets stuck on obstructions, and allows for almost no horizontal movement after using it - meaning it will either fail to get her back to the stage due to lack of horizontal movement, or force her to travel straight down into a planned attack.

Add in the facts that she is tall,-and therefore an easy target for more moves and easier to hit sweetspots on - floaty, - meaning her aerial movement is slower, easier to gimp, and easier to KO - and fairly light - obviously meaning she gets knocked further earlier - and she simply has an unfavorable stat spread as well.

Now, I think that in the hands of less "technically" oriented players Zelda can be a very strong pick. For players who don't focus on shielding and dodging, Din's Fire goes from a move that almost never hits to one that almost always hits, and her smash attacks go from almost never being finished to almost always hitting and finishing with the full damage. In more technical play though, she is simply outclassed by many other fighters due to a bunch of unfortunate attributes that add up and bog her down.

Don't get me wrong, I love Zelda, and she and Ness are most definitely my Brawl mains - and I probably play more Zelda than I do Ness, overall. I just know what limits her and why it's so difficult to beat someone of the relative same skill level one-on-one if they're playing another fighter. I don't want to sound like I'm saying that I don't think Zelda will ever be good, because I think that Smash 4 Zelda is shaping up to be much stronger than Melee or Brawl Zelda - but I also know that she has a lot of obstacles to overcome, and a lot of technical issues that make her more difficult than she should have to be.

Sorry if you feel like I just threw a bunch of "technical" stuff at you, but that's really the reason she's so often looked down on - because honestly, if you're not playing with "technical" things in mind, she's actually quite good. The only way to really see why she's held so poorly is because the competitive community is talking about playing very technically, and within that style of play are the things that hold her back.

So yeah, I agree with you that I don't think she's very bad at all outside of competitive play. I've seen a lot of people seethe with rage when she's able to win by spammin' that Din's Fire and it never gets dodged, and I've seen a lot of people wreck with her smashes when they're not SDI'd out of. A lot of my casual player friends think she's "cheap" and overpowered, actually! It's really just when the technical stuff comes in that her faults seriously show.

But I'll always love and play her regardless of her tier placement, and I think things are looking up for Zelda fans in Smash 4!
Nailed it.
 

Big-Cat

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"The lack of good aerials very much hinders her options of "approach" - it is hard to go on the offense as Zelda as you have to try to get close without any safe way to do so."

See, I think that's the thing - Zelda is the most defensive-oriented character in Smash. I think the majority of players try too hard to play her aggressively and offensively. And yes, you want to be aggressive with her to be effective! But you need to be aggressively defensive. She has fantastic defensive options, with several of her moves having huge, quick, lasting hitboxes. If you have an opponent who plays very offensively or if you can make them go on the offensive, Zelda's potential really shines.
This can probably be said for MANY characters. I see Zelda more of a Sniper type of character that specializes in punishing. Teleport around with her, use Din's Fires and Phantom Knights to keep them away/frustrated/zoning, and hit them hard when they mess up. She is by no means Sheik, but that doesn't make her inherently inferior.
 

meleebrawler

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Zelda seems to be benefitting from Smash 4's new physics.

Lower Smash DI makes many of her moves more reliable (including Nayru's Love, and it seems to be faster too!)
Whereas the lag from air dodging too close to the ground is a vulnerability I can see Din's Fire exploiting.

Oh, and it seems Farore's Wind can snap now.
 
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