Rizen
Smash Legend
We have been discussing SV since post 27.
I vote we discuss Town and City or Lylat next.
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Meta On the Field of Battle: Link Stage Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Rizen
- Start date
I vote we discuss Town and City or Lylat next.
Zane the pure
Smash Ace
Very well, It's about time I put all the data on Smashville together. Town and City should probably be next simpy due to the similarities.
Town And City discussion commence!
Town And City discussion commence!
8MAN
Smash Apprentice
Town and City
Low Ceiling:
>Usmash becomes an amazing kill option
>Utilt will kill earlier
>Uair as well as non-spike Dair will kill earlier
Temporary Platforms:
>Beneficial or detrimental based on the MU, either way the platforms are only there for a small amount of time.
>Beneficial for Link when against characters that rely on platforms to extend their combos, seeing as the platforms are not there for the entire match
>Detrimental for Link when against characters that can utilize the temporary platforms to escape Link's projectile pressure or against characters that would normally benefit from FD
Low Ceiling:
>Usmash becomes an amazing kill option
>Utilt will kill earlier
>Uair as well as non-spike Dair will kill earlier
Temporary Platforms:
>Beneficial or detrimental based on the MU, either way the platforms are only there for a small amount of time.
>Beneficial for Link when against characters that rely on platforms to extend their combos, seeing as the platforms are not there for the entire match
>Detrimental for Link when against characters that can utilize the temporary platforms to escape Link's projectile pressure or against characters that would normally benefit from FD
Rizen
Smash Legend
Link has good spacing tools for Town and City (TnC). It's a bigger SV with more platforms. The platform layout isn't as good as stages like Delfino because Link's low jump and they slide offscreen but it's still good.
Good
If Delfino was banned TnC or Skyloft would be my next choice to CP characters Link needs space to deal with. Heavys like Ganon, bowser, etc and characters who Link needs to zone hard like Mario, Sheik etc I would take to TnC.
Bad
Link does need to be careful vs characters with UAir kills and combos. Although I wouldn't ban TnC vs anyone (because Halberd has an even lower ceiling) I wouldn't take with good mobility and zoning or good juggling/Uair/upB killing. Yoshi, Rosalina, Jigglypuff, Sonic, etc. Chasing characters down to prevent timeouts can be difficult on TnC due to Link's low jumps and bad mobility.
Overall TnC is a good stage for Link. I think Delfino and BF outshine it but it's a great alternative for Delfino.
Good
If Delfino was banned TnC or Skyloft would be my next choice to CP characters Link needs space to deal with. Heavys like Ganon, bowser, etc and characters who Link needs to zone hard like Mario, Sheik etc I would take to TnC.
Bad
Link does need to be careful vs characters with UAir kills and combos. Although I wouldn't ban TnC vs anyone (because Halberd has an even lower ceiling) I wouldn't take with good mobility and zoning or good juggling/Uair/upB killing. Yoshi, Rosalina, Jigglypuff, Sonic, etc. Chasing characters down to prevent timeouts can be difficult on TnC due to Link's low jumps and bad mobility.
Overall TnC is a good stage for Link. I think Delfino and BF outshine it but it's a great alternative for Delfino.
Note about Lylat's tilting stage:
Some moves will follow the contours of the stage while others will always act as if Link is standing on a flat surface. When you're facing down-hill for example, F-tilt won't hit as low at full reach because it will continue to act the same as it would on a flat surface, but of course if you're facing up-hill, it will hit much lower below stage than usual. D-smash on the other hand will adjust where it hits in relation to the surface it is used on (except on extreme slopes; it has a limit to how far it will adjust), so on Lylat it will always hit at the same distance from the ground regardless of the slope.
Because characters hanging on ledges behave as if they were hanging on a ledge attached to a flat surface, D-smash will actually hit 'lower' in relation to them, even though it is hitting at the same distance away from the line of the stage.
Because the outer edges of Lylat are at an angle, the tilting of the stage will never actually fully compensate for it and so you'll never actually be able to take advantage of F-tilt hitting lower than usual. At best the outer edges of the stage will always have the slightest slant downwards, even when the stage is fully tilted the other way.
With that said, when trying to hit people who are recovering or hanging on the ledge or in that general area by the ledge, you'll probably want to favour either the first or second hit of D-smash except when the stage is tilted all the way up; only then will F-tilt hit lower than D-smash as usual.
Some moves will follow the contours of the stage while others will always act as if Link is standing on a flat surface. When you're facing down-hill for example, F-tilt won't hit as low at full reach because it will continue to act the same as it would on a flat surface, but of course if you're facing up-hill, it will hit much lower below stage than usual. D-smash on the other hand will adjust where it hits in relation to the surface it is used on (except on extreme slopes; it has a limit to how far it will adjust), so on Lylat it will always hit at the same distance from the ground regardless of the slope.
Because characters hanging on ledges behave as if they were hanging on a ledge attached to a flat surface, D-smash will actually hit 'lower' in relation to them, even though it is hitting at the same distance away from the line of the stage.
Because the outer edges of Lylat are at an angle, the tilting of the stage will never actually fully compensate for it and so you'll never actually be able to take advantage of F-tilt hitting lower than usual. At best the outer edges of the stage will always have the slightest slant downwards, even when the stage is fully tilted the other way.
With that said, when trying to hit people who are recovering or hanging on the ledge or in that general area by the ledge, you'll probably want to favour either the first or second hit of D-smash except when the stage is tilted all the way up; only then will F-tilt hit lower than D-smash as usual.
I realised just recently that the quick tether trump actually works differently on different stages. In the explanation I give in the quote inside the linked post, I stated that you can only hit tether on the 3rd airborne frame at the earliest (4 frame window from that point) and that it had to be out of a SH. Well while this does apply to most stages, there are a few stages that are much more lenient, making the quick tether trump very possible even for people who have never practiced it before.
The only legal stage this applies to is Dream Land.
On Dream Land, you can SH or FH backwards from the edge, and the tether will work from the first airborne frame. This means that you can actually buffer the tether during your jumpsquat frames. Hold Jump, hold back, hold grab, and watch it work.
The quick tether trump is an amazing AT, normally only held back by the difficulty of performing it, but on Dream Land this difficulty does not apply.
The only legal stage this applies to is Dream Land.
On Dream Land, you can SH or FH backwards from the edge, and the tether will work from the first airborne frame. This means that you can actually buffer the tether during your jumpsquat frames. Hold Jump, hold back, hold grab, and watch it work.
The quick tether trump is an amazing AT, normally only held back by the difficulty of performing it, but on Dream Land this difficulty does not apply.
Lord Renning
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2016
- Messages
- 457
Sir Fresh mentioned how no one (Excpet Foxy a few posts up) talks about Lylat, so let's talk about Lylat.
POST IS IN BETA PENDING FACT CHECKING, REVIEW, AND SUBMISSION OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Link has a lot of moves that miss auto-cancels by a few frames, making him very good on stages with slants and lots of low platforms. Lylat is the only legal stage with slants and it has lots of low platforms, so let's go over what you can do on this stage that puts all the players on tilt.
Facing Down The Slope: (Link is looking downhill)
Short hop Nair auto-cancels (AC's) going downhill.
Full hop Fair AC's going downhill.
Short Hop Airdodge's landing lag can be avoided using a double jump or A-Landing.
You can fast fall a double jump AC dair and get true combos off of it going downhill.
You can use a rising full hop nair into a double jump dair and have it AC going downhill.
Arrow and bomb projectiles travel further.
Facing the Slope: (Link is looking uphill)
Normal forward thrown bombs throws become soft tosses. Smash throws will still explode.
Retreating short hop Nairs will AC.
Retreating FH fairs will AC.
Full Hop Arrows will hit at head height on most characters, allowing for better arrow spam pressure.
When we're facing the tilt, we can throw our bombs and they become soft throws from normal and dash tosses, so it's helps out approach. Then we can use retreating aerials with full hops and short hops and have them AC. Facing down hill, we can use advancing aerials and aerial cross-ups to pressure.
The low platforms can be pressure with SH and FH AC aerials, as well as from up tilts and up smashes that people are less likely to fall out of.
POST IS IN BETA PENDING FACT CHECKING, REVIEW, AND SUBMISSION OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Link has a lot of moves that miss auto-cancels by a few frames, making him very good on stages with slants and lots of low platforms. Lylat is the only legal stage with slants and it has lots of low platforms, so let's go over what you can do on this stage that puts all the players on tilt.
Facing Down The Slope: (Link is looking downhill)
Short hop Nair auto-cancels (AC's) going downhill.
Full hop Fair AC's going downhill.
Short Hop Airdodge's landing lag can be avoided using a double jump or A-Landing.
You can fast fall a double jump AC dair and get true combos off of it going downhill.
You can use a rising full hop nair into a double jump dair and have it AC going downhill.
Arrow and bomb projectiles travel further.
Facing the Slope: (Link is looking uphill)
Normal forward thrown bombs throws become soft tosses. Smash throws will still explode.
Retreating short hop Nairs will AC.
Retreating FH fairs will AC.
Full Hop Arrows will hit at head height on most characters, allowing for better arrow spam pressure.
When we're facing the tilt, we can throw our bombs and they become soft throws from normal and dash tosses, so it's helps out approach. Then we can use retreating aerials with full hops and short hops and have them AC. Facing down hill, we can use advancing aerials and aerial cross-ups to pressure.
The low platforms can be pressure with SH and FH AC aerials, as well as from up tilts and up smashes that people are less likely to fall out of.
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