Omni Presents: Three Reasons Why You Should Pick A Top Tier

[Omni]

That's like putting a spoiler warning after saying that Snape kills Dumbledore. "Just don't pay attention to what I just said lol".

@ LiteralGrill well how should I put it ? All the other news you post are either relevant to current events, insightful or educative. Omni's video are none of that and that's why imo he doesn't deserve to be put in the news section. If he wants exposure he's free to post his video on reddit (which he already does btw) or make a thread about it in the forums.

Article on Smashboards
3 Ways to Improve Your Smash Game (educational)
Diddy is Innocent (current events, insightful)
League of Smash (current events, funny)
3 Reasons Why You Should Pick a Top Tier (educational, insightful)

The subject is definitely controversial and it brings up interesting conversation. But ultimately, I'm attempting to explain why to competitive players why picking a top tier would be valuable to them. What's the problem here?

 

[TheFlyingCule]

Maybe it's just me but I tend to like a character less when it's high tier, not always,but often the case.

For example my favorite Yoshi, Link, and Ness come from 64, not in a game they are actually better in. My favorite Fox, Falco, and Samus are Smash 4. My Favorite Luigi is Melee. I guess it's just me, but I often like lower tier characters inherently, not sure why...

Not always the case tho, PM (and to some extent Melee) Peach are my favorite Peach iterations

 

[poisn]

Sad to hear you picked "wrong" Though if that is your sole reason I'm curious what keeps you with her since you have been learning setups once at least.

Do you still believe puff has it in her? If you got into sm4sh now (when the tierlist is actually a reasonably solid thing) would you still play puff? Do you regret picking puff? What about puff made you think she was top tier? If you ever learn setups with a toptier will you make the switch regardless? Is puff secretly the funnest bubblegum in sm4sh?

well i do still think puff has the tools to do well in tourneys because she has some of the best aerials in the game (frame 3 nair, wall of pain fair, bair that kills at 100 depending on char, uair that sets up into rest, etc), great options to counter spot dodging and rolls, a move that will kill most top tiers at 60+, and fantastic aerial mobility. those were the original reasons i thought she was top tier, but i didn't think that her dying so early would be such an issue but it did become one. and i used to duo main puff and sheik so i do know sheik but i dont think i could go back because i don't think i could play the neutral with top tiers the way i do with puff. puff is a really fun to play character, and personally i think she makes you learn the neutral the hardest. playing her makes you value every punish you get and makes you respect every hit your opponent does because you could easily die to a forward smash at 70. just my 2 cents though and thank you for being respectful

 

[Tankster]

I guess it makes sense of what he's saying. You don't have to main a top character; you have to play them long enough to know their strengths at least. That way, if you decide to stick to a low/mid tier you know how to counter the top tiers.

Melee won't be a problem since 8 characters fit the S tier.

Brawl will sorta be a problem since only 2 people is at least S rank.

Smash 4 is still questionable. They'll probably get future patches every now and then.........

No one has a choice in Smash 64 since there are only 12 unique characters that can be mastered.

Still in thought, and I could be wrong (Keyword: wrong), but every character has to be played in Project M since the game is somewhat balanced. Unless one character has a huge advantage over the other there's no way you can stick to that one character and dominate all the others. It's nearly impossible, especially without the tech skill.

 

[Najowm]

That's right, but for audience like us, it will get a bit dull if we keep seeing Fox vs Fox, ZSS vs ZSS for most of the time.
Picking top tiers will end up seeing the same MUs all over again....

If your favorite character is top tier, congrats. If isn't, don't completely abandon him/her. But you should still need to try out those top tier characters.

We always see the same matchups in melee for the most port, yet we still watch and love it, so why would it be any different for sm4sh, even at ceo the top 8 was nothing but top tiers (aside from esam playing samus for one game) and it was the most hype sm4sh tourney imo.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Omni presents: Omni attempts to directly sabotage the Smash 4 fanbase yet again.

 

[trusty]

This is only relevant for brawl, where MK and the ICs are so broken that it's basically impossible to be effective with anyone competitively outside
Of that. Melee, the chance of you playing someone SO good that you absolutely NEED to be using a spacy, sheik or marth are slim enough that using whoever you want doesn't make a huge difference as long as you enjoy it and are working at whatever you wann work with. Smash 4 is still so new and the patches make it so the metagame is barely developed. So whoever is seen as "top tier" now may not be soon. Look at how the Melee tiers have changed in the last decade. Those changes are going to be triple for smash 4. The same generally applies to PM too. So no, don't use who is "top tier" as the deciding factor in who you pick, ESPECIALLY In PM and smash 4. It's a ****ty and dangerous approach as it diminishes the potential for diverse competitive play. All of this doesn't even take into accounts what will happen as customs become more commonplace at both small and large tournaments. Basically: use who you want, develop the **** out of them and the "tiers" will balance out. If a brawl situation happens then those massive disparities will be evened out by patches. Today's Fox can be tomorrow's Kirby. Who knows where the game will go. Be inventive and find ways to win with whom wver you're drawn to. This is what smash 4 enables us to do! And project m especially, seeing as it is pretty much the perfect smash game. Alright sorry for the rant but hope someone reads this and takes to heart the diversity and sheer array of options at the heart of this game.

 

[trusty]

And yet Melee gets more viewers than Smash 4 and Melee is on the main stage of EVO. Funny how that works, huh.

Yeah, because it's been around longer, been played and owned by more people and has had a straight decade of MG development. Once the rest of the smash 4 community catches up to Zero it's going to overtake Melee very quickly. Likely Within the next year. But hey, Melee supremacists gotta keep fighting the good fight and trying to make people feel ****ty for wanting to develop the metagame for and find new ways to play smash 4.

 

[Delta Chae]

Yeah, because it's been around longer, been played and owned by more people and has had a straight decade of MG development. Once the rest of the smash 4 community catches up to Zero it's going to overtake Melee very quickly. Likely Within the next year. But hey, Melee supremacists gotta keep fighting the good fight and trying to make people feel ****ty for wanting to develop the metagame for and find new ways to play smash 4.

To say that Smash 4 will overtake Melee is arrogant and irrational. I do believe that Smash 4 can at some point pull even with Melee, however it will never overtake it because Smash 4, simply put, is not as deep as Melee and as a result is not as interesting to watch for most people.

Melee is loved by audiences because of the aggressive rushdown style that many players use which is very interesting to watch and generates a ton of hype. You can't play a rushdown strategy is Smash 4, it's not because the players refuse to do so, it's because the physics engine among other things makes it impossible to do so without being harshly punished.

It's extremely ironic that you're calling people Melee supremacists when you're being a Smash 4 supremacist.

As far as developing the metagame of Smash 4 goes, I don't believe there is much to develop from what has been seen so far and because of Sakurai's philosophy of only appealing to casual players and on multiple occasions doing the polite equivalent of telling the competitive Smash community (This includes competitive Brawl and Smash 4 players) to go **** themselves. If people want to try to develop the metagame fine, they can do whatever they want, but don't be surprised if you find out that there isn't much to develop. If I'm wrong then great, I hope I'm wrong about Smash 4 having no competitive potential, the more positive exposure the Smash community gets the better. But from what I've seen thus far I don't think the potential is there.

 

[ARBITER WARPIG]

Um, no, was SAUS Link good? Can I see the video? Link is one of my sword mains, I might need to see of of SAUS' Link tricks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6FFMcDtBM8

 

[Elite Smasher]

No offense but this sounds like a bunch of groundless statements.

No offense taken! As an intellectual, I use reason. If you really think about it on your own, then you can come to my conclusions on your own!

 

[Saikyoshi]

We always see the same matchups in melee for the most port, yet we still watch and love it, so why would it be any different for sm4sh, even at ceo the top 8 was nothing but top tiers (aside from esam playing samus for one game) and it was the most hype sm4sh tourney imo.

Um... No, most of us don't. I know if I hear Gourmet Race or that damn reflector (YES, I SAID REFLECTOR. THAT'S THE ATTACK NAME, GET OVER IT.) sound one more ****ing time, my ears will burst.

 

[Golden Rainbow]

Smash 4 does have the element of patches, though. That means sticking to a character might turn out better in the long run. Or worse. Sorry, Diddy mains.

 

[4nonymous]

Um, no, was SAUS Link good? Can I see the video? Link is one of my sword mains, I might need to see of of SAUS' Link tricks.

SAUS isn't THAT good. Moon is just super bad at matchups he doesn't know.

 

[-Nebula-]

If you just wanna be known for the character you play you have very small dreams. At least aim to be known as that pacman that caused an upset.

"What do YOU know about my dreams, Gaston?"

I've caused upsets at every tournament I've been to.

To say that Smash 4 will overtake Melee is arrogant and irrational. I do believe that Smash 4 can at some point pull even with Melee, however it will never overtake it because Smash 4, simply put, is not as deep as Melee and as a result is not as interesting to watch for most people.

Melee is loved by audiences because of the aggressive rushdown style that many players use which is very interesting to watch and generates a ton of hype. You can't play a rushdown strategy is Smash 4, it's not because the players refuse to do so, it's because the physics engine among other things makes it impossible to do so without being harshly punished.

It's extremely ironic that you're calling people Melee supremacists when you're being a Smash 4 supremacist.

As far as developing the metagame of Smash 4 goes, I don't believe there is much to develop from what has been seen so far and because of Sakurai's philosophy of only appealing to casual players and on multiple occasions doing the polite equivalent of telling the competitive Smash community (This includes competitive Brawl and Smash 4 players) to go **** themselves. If people want to try to develop the metagame fine, they can do whatever they want, but don't be surprised if you find out that there isn't much to develop. If I'm wrong then great, I hope I'm wrong about Smash 4 having no competitive potential, the more positive exposure the Smash community gets the better. But from what I've seen thus far I don't think the potential is there.

You are wrong on so many levels. If you don't think you can play this game aggressively, I would refer you to Captain Falcon, Sheik, and Yoshi. If you don't think this game is hype, you haven't watched Alpharad. And if you don't think the metagame has a lot of room for growth, you haven't seen Abadango or PEPESPAIN, or a good Pac-Man in general.

 

[Mr. Oshawott]

If "top-tier" fighters were all that people would see in every competitive match, Smash would get really boring really fast. It helps to have diversity of character usage so that matches remains fresh and interesting.

 

[Morgan S. Court]

Specifically to point 2, I don't agree with the sentiment, mostly the idea that people pick low/mid tiers just to make an excuse. If I pick R.O.B. and I lose the match, I'm not going to say "Oh well that's only because Captain Falcon is much faster and that's why everybody plays him," nor am I going to delude myself into thinking "I'm still better than this guy because I had the balls to pick a mid-tier." No, I picked R.O.B. because I feel he's a good fit for me, and if I lose it's because I got outplayed. I can still get better, and there are ways to deal with bad matchups or tier differences. I guess he does clarify that not everybody thinks this way by the end though, at least.

I also don't think trying to shake up your opponent with a matchup they weren't expecting should be treated as a sign of disrespect. Maybe there are people out there who think that, but hopefully that's not universal.

Finally, my biggest concern is that encouraging everyone to pick top tier will only further stagnate the competition. What fun is watching a tournament when everybody's playing the same 3 characters?

I guess I have to respect that Omni is speaking to the meta, which does feel this way - but I'd prefer we went the opposite direction and try to broaden our collective skillset, not narrow it down and cast a shadow on 85% of the roster. It'll make spectating a thousand times more interesting to keep the matchups fresh.

Eh, as far as point two, a friend occasionally does that. I've seen it happen among mid-low experienced players. I will, however, give him the credit for playing since Melee, giving him more experience than me.

Also, in my opinion, Rob is an amazing character. Not top tier, but great. His Dthrow to Uair is incredible (I haven't tested how much DI affects it yet, but it seems to kill around 95% on most of the roster.)

 

[rty1001]

Or some people just don't feel they're in their best when they are playing a specific top tier? I mean, aMSa and Green Ranger for example they play low tiers because well, that's the character they can smash with. It wouldn't be surprising if they both played a top tier and performed worse, because they chose that low tier for the specific purpose of feeling they're on their best with that low tier.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

rude

You make a controversial video knowing you're going to piss people off, expect to get flack in return. You can't make these thinking everyone's gonna be turned onto your way of thinking.

 

[Gloman600]

overall smash iq trumps tier lists any day
i disagree also with its a sign of disrespect i think its how you expose a bad smash player beat their top tiers mains
everyone going to top tier is BORING AND WOULD MAKE METAGAME DIE QUICKER CONTRADICTING YOUR OTHER POINTLESS POST

 

[Gloman600]

overall smash iq trumps tier lists any day
i disagree also with its a sign of disrespect i think its how you expose a bad smash player beat their top tiers mains
everyone going to top tier is BORING AND WOULD MAKE METAGAME DIE QUICKER CONTRADICTING YOUR OTHER POINTLESS POST

im a villager main if it matters

 

[Liam_Butler]

Yeah, because it's been around longer, been played and owned by more people and has had a straight decade of MG development. Once the rest of the smash 4 community catches up to Zero it's going to overtake Melee very quickly. Likely Within the next year. But hey, Melee supremacists gotta keep fighting the good fight and trying to make people feel ****ty for wanting to develop the metagame for and find new ways to play smash 4.

The irony is strong, man. I feel for you. Shoutouts to the stagnating Melee meta that isn't advancing and has been the same for years now. Good on you, you obviously are not a Smash 4 supremacist.

Maybe Smash 4 can coexist with Melee, but God knows that Smash 4 will not top Melee.

 

[Delta Chae]

You are wrong on so many levels. If you don't think you can play this game aggressively, I would refer you to Captain Falcon, Sheik, and Yoshi. If you don't think this game is hype, you haven't watched Alpharad. And if you don't think the metagame has a lot of room for growth, you haven't seen Abadango or PEPESPAIN, or a good Pac-Man in general.

Great job ignoring half of what I said and demonstrating that you have little knowledge of your own game.

Even those characters still need to play extremely defensively before they can actually do anything. The main problem people have with Smash 4 is that the games are constantly being reset to a neutral position leaving very little room for anything interesting to happen. In Smash 4 combos will rarely exceed 4 hits before you have a neutral reset and keeping an advantageous position as a character that isn't heavily defensive like Rosalina doesn't happen.

Except the game is not hype, many of the complaints levied against Brawl have also been levied against Smash 4, such complaints include but are not limited to: the floatiness of the physics making games extremely slow, having a nearly non existent combo game, and making bait and punish before neutral reset the only viable way to reliably win. While combos do exist in Smash 4, as previously stated they rarely exceed 4 hits and with a few exceptions it's rarely a big deal when you are on the receiving end of one. By comparison in Melee, if you lose the neutral, odds are you're taking at least 70% and if your DI is poor you're dying outright.

I don't know why you're using Pac-Man as an example. The metagame should not be revolving around one character, a metagame that is centralized around a single character is indicative of poor game balance. Just because Pac-Man has room for growth does not mean the meta as a whole does. This is also true for Melee, the only character that hasn't been mostly figured out is Fox, although he is fairly close to it, despite this the metagame for Melee at this point is fairly stable and it's very unlikely that we'll see any huge changes anymore. Again, given Sakurai's disdain for the competitive community it's extremely unlikely that anything of significance will be found that propels Smash 4 to Melee levels of popularity. The main thing keeping it alive right now is the "new and shiny" factor, once that wears off, if nothing has come up that makes it a worthy title in the eyes of the FGC it will die off the sme way Brawl has.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Eh, as far as point two, a friend occasionally does that. I've seen it happen among mid-low experienced players. I will, however, give him the credit for playing since Melee, giving him more experience than me.

Also, in my opinion, Rob is an amazing character. Not top tier, but great. His Dthrow to Uair is incredible (I haven't tested how much DI affects it yet, but it seems to kill around 95% on most of the roster.)

R.O.B.'s my Sm4sh second, and my Brawl main - and I've won two tournaments with him in Brawl, and I attribute a lot of that to him being a matchup very few people expect to face in a serious setting.

Admittedly, I've actually witnessed that disrespect mentality first hand. When I'd play R.O.B., early in the tournament I'd often overhear comments like "man this guy's not taking this seriously, he'll be out soon," then by round 4 it's like "I had no idea R.O.B. was even a viable character, what is even going on."

So, Omni's right that the 'disrespect' mentality exists, but IMO it's a huge hindrance to think that way. If you underestimate a player just because they're rolling a mid/low tier, you're putting yourself in unnecessary danger - and that's something I learned to capitalize on. Do not feed the ravenous ego.

 

[KingChaos]

I like this video and agree with Omni 100 percent. In a tournament setting the serious players are there for one reason and that is to win. You shouldn't handy cap yourself by picking weaker characters in that setting. In friendlies yea sure kick some *** with Wii Fit or get beat with them who cares it doesn't matter your just having fun at that point. In regards to how I chose my main to be sheik in this game since the 3ds is based off of a combination of factors one being I have enjoyed playing her in every game so far even brawl she was mad fun not good Samus imo was better but anyways. Another reason being since I have had that dedication she felt really intuitive for me and fit my need for combo's in this game that were lacking at the time. Over time i got really attached to her and it just so happens she is amazing in this game and I enjoy winning so why not. I abandoned my long time main Samus not because I just thought she was bad but she isn't fun can't do anything that I was able to in any previous game. I have seen and felt the kinds of things she can do and trust me samus is a sleeper character in this game not as bad as most think. Anywho basically picked my main based on the best character I have fun with and that happened to be Sheik. Sheikah 4 life!

 

[KingChaos]

R.O.B.'s my Sm4sh second, and my Brawl main - and I've won two tournaments with him in Brawl, and I attribute a lot of that to him being a matchup very few people expect to face in a serious setting.

Admittedly, I've actually witnessed that disrespect mentality first hand. When I'd play R.O.B., early in the tournament I'd often overhear comments like "man this guy's not taking this seriously, he'll be out soon," then by round 4 it's like "I had no idea R.O.B. was even a viable character, what is even going on."

So, Omni's right that the 'disrespect' mentality exists, but IMO it's a huge hindrance to think that way. If you underestimate a player just because they're rolling a mid/low tier, you're putting yourself in unnecessary danger - and that's something I learned to capitalize on. Do not feed the ravenous ego.

Haha I liked this because it reminded me of similar experiences I had in brawl as I co mained Samus and Rob. I remember my very first tournament and this marth player has his buddies behind him and they are laughing because I picked Samus. I remember Sd'ing right off the bat and winning the 1st match then destroying him second game haha they were speechless. But during the match they were saying stuff like man what are you doing and the player goes what he's good man! lol

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Edit: Omni's videos might be click bait in many ways, but they bring up discussion. They are insightful

The only one I had an issue with is why Smash 4 will die and mostly because I didn't agree with the people saying it would when the opposite was occurring.

@ Omni I think your Number 2 point is actually really bad. It's a generalization for what may happen and what people might say when they lose. Also the vibe that someone who doesn't pick a top tier is not respecting you, which this point kind of comes off as.

I get the feeling we're getting a lot of users who aren't actively going to tournaments speaking out against the message of this video.
Towards the end Omni says...
"If you take your fighting game career seriously..."
"If you're serious about winning any kind of fighting game tournament..."
If you're not actively going to tournaments, and actively trying to compete with top players, then you're not taking it seriously. And you're not the target of this video.

Don't get all prideful and say stuff like
"nah, I'm gonna stick with *insert character(s)*"
"screw tier lists I use who I want"
when you weren't even the target audience.



That's a joke on how some Fox mains have had to stop playing Fox because it wrecks their hands.
As in, picking Fox literally destroys you.

I think for PM and Smash 4, not playing a top tier is a lot more doable than Melee. I do think it is possible to be serious without playing a top tier, but it will be easier to do using one vs the opposite of course.

I think what many are taking away from the video is that they need to play a top tier, if not must if they even remotely care for the game. Which they do not like. I disagree that they should even if they take the game seriously.

I don't totally agree with either side on that spectrum over really just learning knowledge of what the top tiers do. If you are

What I do think people should do it not throw the list away like it is trash, it matters, I do not think it should be a sole decision maker for who you play if the game is remotely balanced. Which PM/Smash 4 are...not so much Melee but there is some do-ability there.

 

[teluoborg]

Article on Smashboards
3 Ways to Improve Your Smash Game (educational)
Diddy is Innocent (current events, insightful)
League of Smash (current events, funny)
3 Reasons Why You Should Pick a Top Tier (educational, insightful)

The subject is definitely controversial and it brings up interesting conversation. But ultimately, I'm attempting to explain why to competitive players why picking a top tier would be valuable to them. What's the problem here?

You forgot "Why Smash 4 will die".

And the main reason why your videos are bad (beside being sensationalism 101) is that they are misleading.

Let's take "3 Reasons Why You Should Pick a Top Tier" : you talk about top tiers characters and top players switching because their old main limits them but you completely occult the fact that 99% of your audience is limited by their basic skills and not their character choice.

Things like zoning, spacing, understanding of the game mechanics and tech skill are far more important than character choice. There's no point in picking a top tier if you can't understand what makes the character good or can't use his options.

So there you have it : you make people start a discussion that doesn't concern them.

Hope you see the problem now.

 

[YoHeKing]

I play my character because I know I dont need a top tier to win.

 

[mario123007]

We always see the same matchups in melee for the most port, yet we still watch and love it, so why would it be any different for sm4sh, even at ceo the top 8 was nothing but top tiers (aside from esam playing samus for one game) and it was the most hype sm4sh tourney imo.

Agreed, however, Smash4 has more top tiers compare to Melee. So that's why I always prefer watching Smash4.

 

[Omni]

You make a controversial video knowing you're going to piss people off, expect to get flack in return. You can't make these thinking everyone's gonna be turned onto your way of thinking.

I don't mind differing opinions. I welcome them. You're just bring hateful. No reason for that.

 

[mario123007]

You make a controversial video knowing you're going to piss people off, expect to get flack in return. You can't make these thinking everyone's gonna be turned onto your way of thinking.

Um.. he's not pissing anyone off. I think he does have some points, but I had said I don't really like top tier ditto matches that much.
And yeah, some of his videos does have some stuff to argue, but I just somehow can't be mad when watching his videos...

 

[YoHeKing]

Ditto matches are pretty bad to. Even if the ditto matches are top tier. You just gotta play them so diffrently.

 

[Gloman600]

Stop talking about melee!!! and that one comment is right majority of your audience just lack simple skills why pick a top tier main and you dont know what makes that character top tier i learned smash iq playing dk advance meta advance longevity picking "top tiers" hinders that

 

[Gloman600]

And what about patches!!??

 

[Trunks159]

Um.. he's not pissing anyone off. I think he does have some points, but I had said I don't really like top tier ditto matches that much.
And yeah, some of his videos does have some stuff to argue, but I just somehow can't be mad when watching his videos...

Then just speak for yourself. As you can see, a lot of people are pissed. I'm not personally but that's besides the point.

 

[Delta Chae]

Stop talking about melee!!! and that one comment is right majority of your audience just lack simple skills why pick a top tier main and you dont know what makes that character top tier i learned smash iq playing dk advance meta advance longevity picking "top tiers" hinders that

This video is aimed at people who are serious about being competitive, that includes Melee players so people are going to talk about Melee.

Also, clean up your grammar and spelling, after the part about Melee I can't even tell what the hell you're trying to say.

 

[4nonymous]

Yeah, because it's been around longer, been played and owned by more people and has had a straight decade of MG development. Once the rest of the smash 4 community catches up to Zero it's going to overtake Melee very quickly. Likely Within the next year. But hey, Melee supremacists gotta keep fighting the good fight and trying to make people feel ****ty for wanting to develop the metagame for and find new ways to play smash 4.

overtake melee
within 2016

2001$ bet

 

[TakeYourHeart]

Respect Omni, your arguments always do make me think about the game more deeply even if I have every intention to stay casual/semi-competitive (like hell I'll put my money on the line in Smash).

I do hope to pick a secondary up soon, but I do think with the tier list being so ill-defined in Smash 4 that it'll look much different even a year from now. If I play a character that is top tier, so be it.

 

[Phoenix502]

hmmm....

most of the video, I disagree with, namely cause the first two points are debatable.
1) what defines the best style for a player is exclusive to each, there are some folks who just aren't suited for the highest tiers.
2) sure, Mirror matches are easily the best way to determine who's better with a character... but if people are going to use someone else and blame them for their loss, they're not worth your time, No Johns.
3) THIS point, I do agree with, namely from experience. I've found myself much better able to handle matchups in Sm4sh because I learned the basics of each fighter. I can't say the same for Melee, cause I can't keep up, but this can apply to PM as well.