BlackWaltzX
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,013
So I will expand on this topic later. Basically I am going to do some experiments with combinations of moves and list stage strategies (Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, and so on)
Any testers, feel free to contact me on AIM as UltimaDemiDragon. Thank you Darkstraw for any current testing (Frigate, RC, moves)
If you have anything to add/suggestions/combos/whatnot feel free to throw it in the OP by messaging me it.
~Tricks~
Grab Release
This is the edge that other characters have, we should use it effectively as well. Just grab the enemy and pund on them with a. When they break free, use an upsmash or foward smash! If they are larger enemies, you can upsmash, if they are smaller, you can forward them.
Also, try doing this near edges to make them grab the edge and follow it up with more grabs. If they stay on the stage from this, however, a good downsmash or upsmash for them!
Pikmin pluck to smash
All you need to do this is a free pikmin slot. What happens is that you press B and immediately use the smash in any direction or the UP+B and the pikmin will go into your line and is used.
Recovering Options
Foward+B with purple to knock them off the ledge.
Fair to level spike them if done properly.
Upair to knock them off.
If all else fails, UP+B into their center of gravity to level spike them. They will die first if at a higher percent.
Sweet Spotting
On the downsmash, you can hit with both pikmin at times. The following is assuming you are within the range of a Luigi up+b'ing you with only a coin coming out.
On characters that are about falco's size or smaller, a red and yellow will sweetspot 100% of the time. (Red in front)
Characters larger than that, a red and purple (Red in front) will sweetspot.
On D3, DK and Bowser, you can sweetspot with two purples.
NOTE:: On pit, you need to use a red and yellow and do it BEHIND him to 100% sweet spot.
The upsmash has a sweet spot as well, which is not as visual or effective as the downsmash, but as it's your killing move, be happy to kill people just as if you were Ivysaur!
While CLOSE to them (Think Jigglypuff's rest) you can sweet spot for more damage and knockback. [STILL TESTING//Thanks Dangr]
Pikmin Dribbling
This is basically doing air attacks to keep your order going as well as assuring you that you have at least one pikmin by you at all times. The most effective time for this is when you have three or less pikmin. It is also extremely good for Olimar's who do not use down+b to order their pikmin!
'Ken Combo'
Olimar has the same Fair as Marth, thus being able to replicate Marth's Fair to fairx10. This is harder of course, as well as less effective in brawl than it was was in Melee.
The whole difference is that you can do foward+b between fairs and it should still come out clean.
Also of course, save at least one for the fair and finish up with a dair.
When going for the dair, do NOT use double jump unless you are sure that it will land!
Effective White Pikmin
If you are close and latch a white on the enemy. Grab them. Next, do dthrow and pivot grab. This will lock them in place (Of course they can escape if they know how). This will allow you to do the grab about 3 times or so, thus getting off almost all 9 hits if done at 0%.
This works best with the flowchart combo that leads to the right.
At about 50%, you can white latch them, grab and just hit them till they break free (or time it so you can throw them) for the FULL amount of white hits.
~Basic Moves~
His jab has lots of priority and hits a bit behind him. Go ahead and spam this if you are low on pikmin and next to the enemy. (Knocks off those annoying G&W's and their grab.
Using air attacks carries pikmin around with you, so when you respawn, pick a few and roll, they generally will be loose. But with the air move, you can carry at least one around with you. It's best used with going away from the enemy and using Bairs. If the enemy isn't catching on, you can bair and go towards them with it for a hit.
-Combo list-
We all know combos don't exist once the opponent hits a certain % point in Brawl, so most of these will be assuming the enemy has 0% unless otherwise noted.
Commas will be jumps, hyphens seperate strings of moves, 'advanced techniques' will be in brackets.
~Setups~
Nair:: This is a great entryway to moves on the ground that may usually be harder to land, be it a smash kill or landing a grab.
Foward+B:: This causes the enemy to shield, hit it off (Decaying themselves) or dodging the damage. This always let's you be able to come in for a quick attack, be it nair, grab, upsmash or up+B
Grabs:: Doing a grab near the ledge of the stage leads to easy spikes on a few characters like falco and Ike. This also is the primary combo maker for most Olimar players. Which it should be, it has the best grab range and probably one of the best cooldowns in the entire game.
~Simple Combos~
Downthrow-Fair
Downthrow-(Run foward a bit)Upsmash-Upair
Nair-Up smash [Best if the last hit of nair does not land, thanks Olimarman]
Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow
~Complex Combos~
Nair-Downthrow-Fair (FF)-dtilt-downthrow-Nair-upsmash(After this then you find their DI) If it is left or right, up+B respectively. if it's down than hop upair)
If you replace the last part of the combo, which is the upsmash, with a white, you can build in a Nair to a Upair/(FF) Upsmash
Dthrow-fair-Dthrow-nair-upb/upair
Dthrow-Toss-DThrow-Grab/Upsmash
Nair-Dthrow-Nair-Dthrow-Nair-Upsmash/Upair/Downsmash
Nair-Dtilt-Uptilt-Nair-Nair-Upair-Up+B
Nair-Dtilt-Nair , Dair-Upsmash/Downsmash
Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow-Up+B on floaty characters, foward smash on heavy characters. (Great with white pikmin)
~Olimar Dthrow Flowchart~
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=olimarflowchartld0.png
~*~Stages~*~
~Frigate~
Grabable ledge count:3
Forms:2
-First Form-
There are moving platforms coming from the bottom once in a while, the right side has an elevator platform going up and down.
The only ledge to grab is on the left.
What to do: Stay beneath the platform on the left, as you can hit upsmash through the top and for just the safety of a ledge being in quick range. Do -NOT- put yourself at risk to the floating platforms on the bottom left, they will couch pull your pikmin if you are not careful.
Transformation: When you hear the warning noise, the stage will transform (NOT flip) and you will appear in the sky randomly and generally die, as an Olimar player. So here is how to combat that awful noise.
Down+B TWICE. If you do it once, it sometimes brings just two or three to you.
Jump in the air ONCE. If you do this, you will appear on the second part at the top right of the screen in the air.
Go on the platform on the top left. This will place you gently on the right side of the second part of the stage. (Best location)
-Second Form-
There are moving platforms coming from the bottom once in a while.
There are also ledges on both sides.
What to do: Stay in the cup portion of this stage. This time you have ledges on both sides, so don't feel the need to drift near the edges at all.
You can use the curves of the stage to make yourself arc pikmin if you face towards the outside of the stage. (Great with yellows and purples)
Also, you can upsmash and uptilt through the shield of most characters opponent.
Transformation: When the warning noise comes, this time you can stand anywhere. If on the ground, you go to the top left, if in the air, top right.
~Rainbow Cruise~
Grabbable ledge count:4
Forms:2
This stage is the hardest for any Olimar. So counterpick this one as soon as you have learned the mechanics of Frigate.
You have almost no ledges to grab besides the boat and the starting point of the moving section.
-First Form-
This part of the stage Olimar is at his safest. Feel free to use some nice tricks such as upairing along the mast platforms for a good 3 upairs (or more!). You can also get some characters such as metaknight near the door leading to the cabins with downsmash. (Sweetspot downsmashing leads to a locking of Metaknight up to about 54% damage)
The front of the boat has a ledge very much alike Final Destination, a 190* angle to grab. Not very flexible, but it's good to work with.
The back is much easier to work around, as it has about a 270* angle for up+b.
Try staying back here against people without much horizontal killing.
Mainly, the best places for Olimar are near the door to the cabin of the ship. If you get locked, shield through it and timely downsmash to lock in characetrs (Works great on MKs, Lucas, Marth and Ness users doing down tilt spam.
Of course, this also works for Chaingrabbers like DeDeDe, so stay away from them the entire boat ride.
-Second Form-
The moving section. Awful for Olimar, Good for everyone else. Great for Metaknight.
You can only grab the starting point, which is the checkered platform with cones beneath. Once you start seeing carpets, try to play keep away with the enemy. Olimar has NO need for more than 3 pikmin and I'll actually advise you to drop as many as you feel safe to play with. (I usually play using just one or two here).
Try staying to the left side of the stage, which makes you easily killed as the stage moves diagonally to the right, but it's ok because if you stay to the right you are always going to be dead.
Once you get past the giant blue swing, pick all six of your pikmin once again so that you can fight as this stage is just flat and the only worries is your own fighting skill. Foward B alot as the enemy is generally going to keep up with the stage more than "A few 2% hits".
~Luigi's Mansion~
Grabbable Ledge Count:2
Forms:1
This is Olimar's best stage in my opinion. Due to the fact that you can stay alive very easily on the first floor and of course to the awesome effective of teching/not teching the enemy from 0-999.
What you do is stand on the bottom and throw pikmni at them till the come to you. (The distance is small, so through all of them except about two.)
Once they are close to you, use a yellow, red or purple to back throw them. Next, you run beneath them and upsmash. Upsmash, upsmash, upsmash. Follow them when they bounce. Upsmash upsmash.
This works against any character, great against larger enemy players.
If you fight anyone who abuses this stage as well (DK, MK) than you wait for them to approach, NEVER approach them.
Once they are high eneough, downsmash them instead of upsmash. No decay on it and with just one of the damage colors, they will die. Also, feel free to use any good throwing pikmin in the center and throw them up. (Unless against a heavy character, than you must wait till a LARGE number)
Because of the great damage you will rack up, you will eventually be hit out. When this happens, you will generally have no pikmin. Once this occurs, throw all the pikmin away from you and recover with jump to ub+b for an easy recover. Remember, NO pikmin.
Note: This works because when you have high damage, your pikmin are more likely to become confused.
If you lose here, feel bad though. ): You just got outplayed, generally. (Unless a MK got you with tornado before you got him. Than you got cheaped out on.)
~Yoshi's Island (Brawl)~
Grabbable Ledge Count:2
Forms:1
Possibly Olimar's best neutral stage, this features a platform that tilts during the match, ghosts that save Olimar's life and curved land.
You can use the platform for multiple things, of course it works like any other platform, perfect for hyphen smashes, upair. Though, the curved platform provides extra things like UP+Bing along it if you hit the same way it is tilting, angled Downsmashes, F+Bs are also in there.
The ghosts are pretty obvious. If you are being gimped, do the up+b at the top of your second jump to get a floatier fall. (Not recommended unless you are sure you can't make it)
Here is the huge thing though. The curved ground. On the right side of the stage, there is a perfect slant to do your most devestating KO attack. Back throw blue. This kills horrifically early and is hard to DI out of because of the curve. Think of throwing a ball on a flat surface. It makes it bounce out as we all are used to. Now, if you take the same surface and slant it and throw the ball, it propels itself further and at a downward angle, just like the enemy will do.
So this all means that yes, stay on the right side of the stage for the best kill potential.
Any testers, feel free to contact me on AIM as UltimaDemiDragon. Thank you Darkstraw for any current testing (Frigate, RC, moves)
If you have anything to add/suggestions/combos/whatnot feel free to throw it in the OP by messaging me it.
~Tricks~
Grab Release
This is the edge that other characters have, we should use it effectively as well. Just grab the enemy and pund on them with a. When they break free, use an upsmash or foward smash! If they are larger enemies, you can upsmash, if they are smaller, you can forward them.
Also, try doing this near edges to make them grab the edge and follow it up with more grabs. If they stay on the stage from this, however, a good downsmash or upsmash for them!
Pikmin pluck to smash
All you need to do this is a free pikmin slot. What happens is that you press B and immediately use the smash in any direction or the UP+B and the pikmin will go into your line and is used.
Recovering Options
Foward+B with purple to knock them off the ledge.
Fair to level spike them if done properly.
Upair to knock them off.
If all else fails, UP+B into their center of gravity to level spike them. They will die first if at a higher percent.
Sweet Spotting
On the downsmash, you can hit with both pikmin at times. The following is assuming you are within the range of a Luigi up+b'ing you with only a coin coming out.
On characters that are about falco's size or smaller, a red and yellow will sweetspot 100% of the time. (Red in front)
Characters larger than that, a red and purple (Red in front) will sweetspot.
On D3, DK and Bowser, you can sweetspot with two purples.
NOTE:: On pit, you need to use a red and yellow and do it BEHIND him to 100% sweet spot.
The upsmash has a sweet spot as well, which is not as visual or effective as the downsmash, but as it's your killing move, be happy to kill people just as if you were Ivysaur!
While CLOSE to them (Think Jigglypuff's rest) you can sweet spot for more damage and knockback. [STILL TESTING//Thanks Dangr]
Pikmin Dribbling
This is basically doing air attacks to keep your order going as well as assuring you that you have at least one pikmin by you at all times. The most effective time for this is when you have three or less pikmin. It is also extremely good for Olimar's who do not use down+b to order their pikmin!
'Ken Combo'
Olimar has the same Fair as Marth, thus being able to replicate Marth's Fair to fairx10. This is harder of course, as well as less effective in brawl than it was was in Melee.
The whole difference is that you can do foward+b between fairs and it should still come out clean.
Also of course, save at least one for the fair and finish up with a dair.
When going for the dair, do NOT use double jump unless you are sure that it will land!
Effective White Pikmin
If you are close and latch a white on the enemy. Grab them. Next, do dthrow and pivot grab. This will lock them in place (Of course they can escape if they know how). This will allow you to do the grab about 3 times or so, thus getting off almost all 9 hits if done at 0%.
This works best with the flowchart combo that leads to the right.
At about 50%, you can white latch them, grab and just hit them till they break free (or time it so you can throw them) for the FULL amount of white hits.
~Basic Moves~
His jab has lots of priority and hits a bit behind him. Go ahead and spam this if you are low on pikmin and next to the enemy. (Knocks off those annoying G&W's and their grab.
Using air attacks carries pikmin around with you, so when you respawn, pick a few and roll, they generally will be loose. But with the air move, you can carry at least one around with you. It's best used with going away from the enemy and using Bairs. If the enemy isn't catching on, you can bair and go towards them with it for a hit.
-Combo list-
We all know combos don't exist once the opponent hits a certain % point in Brawl, so most of these will be assuming the enemy has 0% unless otherwise noted.
Commas will be jumps, hyphens seperate strings of moves, 'advanced techniques' will be in brackets.
~Setups~
Nair:: This is a great entryway to moves on the ground that may usually be harder to land, be it a smash kill or landing a grab.
Foward+B:: This causes the enemy to shield, hit it off (Decaying themselves) or dodging the damage. This always let's you be able to come in for a quick attack, be it nair, grab, upsmash or up+B
Grabs:: Doing a grab near the ledge of the stage leads to easy spikes on a few characters like falco and Ike. This also is the primary combo maker for most Olimar players. Which it should be, it has the best grab range and probably one of the best cooldowns in the entire game.
~Simple Combos~
Downthrow-Fair
Downthrow-(Run foward a bit)Upsmash-Upair
Nair-Up smash [Best if the last hit of nair does not land, thanks Olimarman]
Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow
~Complex Combos~
Nair-Downthrow-Fair (FF)-dtilt-downthrow-Nair-upsmash(After this then you find their DI) If it is left or right, up+B respectively. if it's down than hop upair)
If you replace the last part of the combo, which is the upsmash, with a white, you can build in a Nair to a Upair/(FF) Upsmash
Dthrow-fair-Dthrow-nair-upb/upair
Dthrow-Toss-DThrow-Grab/Upsmash
Nair-Dthrow-Nair-Dthrow-Nair-Upsmash/Upair/Downsmash
Nair-Dtilt-Uptilt-Nair-Nair-Upair-Up+B
Nair-Dtilt-Nair , Dair-Upsmash/Downsmash
Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow-Pivotgrab-Dthrow-Up+B on floaty characters, foward smash on heavy characters. (Great with white pikmin)
~Olimar Dthrow Flowchart~
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=olimarflowchartld0.png
~*~Stages~*~
~Frigate~
Grabable ledge count:3
Forms:2
-First Form-
There are moving platforms coming from the bottom once in a while, the right side has an elevator platform going up and down.
The only ledge to grab is on the left.
What to do: Stay beneath the platform on the left, as you can hit upsmash through the top and for just the safety of a ledge being in quick range. Do -NOT- put yourself at risk to the floating platforms on the bottom left, they will couch pull your pikmin if you are not careful.
Transformation: When you hear the warning noise, the stage will transform (NOT flip) and you will appear in the sky randomly and generally die, as an Olimar player. So here is how to combat that awful noise.
Down+B TWICE. If you do it once, it sometimes brings just two or three to you.
Jump in the air ONCE. If you do this, you will appear on the second part at the top right of the screen in the air.
Go on the platform on the top left. This will place you gently on the right side of the second part of the stage. (Best location)
-Second Form-
There are moving platforms coming from the bottom once in a while.
There are also ledges on both sides.
What to do: Stay in the cup portion of this stage. This time you have ledges on both sides, so don't feel the need to drift near the edges at all.
You can use the curves of the stage to make yourself arc pikmin if you face towards the outside of the stage. (Great with yellows and purples)
Also, you can upsmash and uptilt through the shield of most characters opponent.
Transformation: When the warning noise comes, this time you can stand anywhere. If on the ground, you go to the top left, if in the air, top right.
~Rainbow Cruise~
Grabbable ledge count:4
Forms:2
This stage is the hardest for any Olimar. So counterpick this one as soon as you have learned the mechanics of Frigate.
You have almost no ledges to grab besides the boat and the starting point of the moving section.
-First Form-
This part of the stage Olimar is at his safest. Feel free to use some nice tricks such as upairing along the mast platforms for a good 3 upairs (or more!). You can also get some characters such as metaknight near the door leading to the cabins with downsmash. (Sweetspot downsmashing leads to a locking of Metaknight up to about 54% damage)
The front of the boat has a ledge very much alike Final Destination, a 190* angle to grab. Not very flexible, but it's good to work with.
The back is much easier to work around, as it has about a 270* angle for up+b.
Try staying back here against people without much horizontal killing.
Mainly, the best places for Olimar are near the door to the cabin of the ship. If you get locked, shield through it and timely downsmash to lock in characetrs (Works great on MKs, Lucas, Marth and Ness users doing down tilt spam.
Of course, this also works for Chaingrabbers like DeDeDe, so stay away from them the entire boat ride.
-Second Form-
The moving section. Awful for Olimar, Good for everyone else. Great for Metaknight.
You can only grab the starting point, which is the checkered platform with cones beneath. Once you start seeing carpets, try to play keep away with the enemy. Olimar has NO need for more than 3 pikmin and I'll actually advise you to drop as many as you feel safe to play with. (I usually play using just one or two here).
Try staying to the left side of the stage, which makes you easily killed as the stage moves diagonally to the right, but it's ok because if you stay to the right you are always going to be dead.
Once you get past the giant blue swing, pick all six of your pikmin once again so that you can fight as this stage is just flat and the only worries is your own fighting skill. Foward B alot as the enemy is generally going to keep up with the stage more than "A few 2% hits".
~Luigi's Mansion~
Grabbable Ledge Count:2
Forms:1
This is Olimar's best stage in my opinion. Due to the fact that you can stay alive very easily on the first floor and of course to the awesome effective of teching/not teching the enemy from 0-999.
What you do is stand on the bottom and throw pikmni at them till the come to you. (The distance is small, so through all of them except about two.)
Once they are close to you, use a yellow, red or purple to back throw them. Next, you run beneath them and upsmash. Upsmash, upsmash, upsmash. Follow them when they bounce. Upsmash upsmash.
This works against any character, great against larger enemy players.
If you fight anyone who abuses this stage as well (DK, MK) than you wait for them to approach, NEVER approach them.
Once they are high eneough, downsmash them instead of upsmash. No decay on it and with just one of the damage colors, they will die. Also, feel free to use any good throwing pikmin in the center and throw them up. (Unless against a heavy character, than you must wait till a LARGE number)
Because of the great damage you will rack up, you will eventually be hit out. When this happens, you will generally have no pikmin. Once this occurs, throw all the pikmin away from you and recover with jump to ub+b for an easy recover. Remember, NO pikmin.
Note: This works because when you have high damage, your pikmin are more likely to become confused.
If you lose here, feel bad though. ): You just got outplayed, generally. (Unless a MK got you with tornado before you got him. Than you got cheaped out on.)
~Yoshi's Island (Brawl)~
Grabbable Ledge Count:2
Forms:1
Possibly Olimar's best neutral stage, this features a platform that tilts during the match, ghosts that save Olimar's life and curved land.
You can use the platform for multiple things, of course it works like any other platform, perfect for hyphen smashes, upair. Though, the curved platform provides extra things like UP+Bing along it if you hit the same way it is tilting, angled Downsmashes, F+Bs are also in there.
The ghosts are pretty obvious. If you are being gimped, do the up+b at the top of your second jump to get a floatier fall. (Not recommended unless you are sure you can't make it)
Here is the huge thing though. The curved ground. On the right side of the stage, there is a perfect slant to do your most devestating KO attack. Back throw blue. This kills horrifically early and is hard to DI out of because of the curve. Think of throwing a ball on a flat surface. It makes it bounce out as we all are used to. Now, if you take the same surface and slant it and throw the ball, it propels itself further and at a downward angle, just like the enemy will do.
So this all means that yes, stay on the right side of the stage for the best kill potential.
