Olimar Matchup Thread

[steelguttey]

theres only one guy on the dk boards?

 

[Scuba Steve]

I'm referring to an Olimar player who has been whining about DK on the DK boards for the past week or so. The DK boards aren't THAT dead.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

DK Vs Olimar

DK is able to Trample over Olimar.
His Nair is a fantastic approach since his arms beat out the Purple Pikmin Toss.
Use a well spaced Fair for when he's holding the edge.
He has options when Olimar is returning Mid to Low. If Mid, a dash attack off the edge can put him out of reach of the edge. A Nair or Bair will also safely do the trick.
Jumping Cargo Throw off the edge followed by a Fair can net some early kills and has a high hit rate. If you ever grab and are able to do this, you should. DK is very safe here. Don't be afraid to go out far. Just stay high and you'll be fine.
Jab. Whenever Olimar is close, Jab. You can do a 2 hit into a grab even if he blocks. He's able to grab after your second Jab but it's good to switch up the number of Jab's you do.
If Olimar is out of DK's Jab range, Olimar can get a Grab in. To counter this, Dtilt. A Fair will also do the trick often if you read the grab attempt.
Fair L-Canceled into Jab - Grab is incredible as an approach as long as he blocks. If he doesn't block, he most likely will eat the Fair.
Toss out Bairs as pressure. You don't need to hit him but it will most likely force him to do something, which opens you up for an opportunity for a grab. This is best used when he recovers from the ledge.

^ Copy Paste from the DK thread.

The counter play to this is generally to have a good DD game. If you can DD and get a grab on you can rack up some damage but will likely have a hard time killing him without a Purple hit or a Blue throw when he's over 150% (Depending on the stage)
DK has a Jab that is really good. If he gets you, you can try and DI up and away but chances are, your going to eat a Nair, or if your at lower percents, you'll get grabbed.
If you get grabbed near the edge and put into a Cargo Hold, then he jumps off and tosses you, you basically have to change up your DI. It's kind of a Rock Paper Scissors thing but he's more likely to win. Theres no Safe DI direction on this one.
One of the main tactics you should strive for is getting more Purples. If you can get 3, then you can put on enough constant pressure that you can take the upper hand. I personally recommend haveing only 3 Purples and no others in this matchup, as having 1 that doesn't give knockback can cost you the stock since your probably high in % anyways. Note that this can be very difficult to achieve since an aggressive DK can be hard to deal with.

 

[B.W.]

Grizzle is actually right. A good DK is hard for any character to deal with, he's possibly the best big body in the game.

He's quick, has great range on all of his attacks coupled with great priority on top of the range. He absolutely does not care about Pikmin Throw from anything other than Purple, and sometimes he can out prioritize that too.

He's heavy so he lives long. His Up-B travels very far and keeps his sides mostly safe. His grab has awesome range and he has great and versatile throws and yes the cargo > F-Air combo is very dangerous against anybody.

If you want to win this matchup you have to space well and not throw attacks out willy nilly. This is another case of never ever mess up.

The game plan is simple but difficult to pull off.

Big stages are key. You're not killing DK off the top anyway. Give yourself space to move around and large blastzones to survive. Recover low, its more dangerous for DK to edgeguard you because he doesn't get much vertical distance for his recovery.

Also you need to edgeguard the same way you would Bowser. D-Air his Up-B. Reach for it if you can, the sooner you smack him down the sooner you can get back on stage and be ready to do it again because you're probably going to need to do it twice.

 

[robosteven]

From what little experience I have in this matchup, specifically with @ POOB , this matchup is bananas. Oli's ****ty tech roll really doesn't help not getting followed up by most of DK's moves. Honestly, I'd play this matchup like I play most matchups: try to get DK above you, combo from below, gimp recovery with dair if possible.

Also, nair works wonders against DK.

Also, don't get grabbed.

Also, grab him first.

Also, also.

 

[POOB]

From what little experience I have in this matchup, specifically with @ POOB , this matchup is bananas. Oli's ****ty tech roll really doesn't help not getting followed up by most of DK's moves. Honestly, I'd play this matchup like I play most matchups: try to get DK above you, combo from below, gimp recovery with dair if possible.

Also, nair works wonders against DK.

Also, don't get grabbed.

Also, grab him first.

Also, also.

I'm bored, so why not help out some olimar players cause I'm tired of hearing them complain about this matchup LOL
I'm not gonna take the time to make this grammatically correct or perfectly clear, so my apologies

Olimar can combo DK as well as DK can combo any character in the game, so mastering combo game is the first step. That way, neither character has an advantage in the punish game department. Tbh, I picked up Olimar for about a week a looong time ago and the first thing i do wtih any character I pick up is experiment with their combo possibilities on a level 1 computer(cause they actually DI occasionally lol) Olimar does some brutal things to DK. Some things that come to mind, while most of you may know but I rarely see olimars do most of these things which is why I bring it up, are down throw chain grabs, down throw to up smash(up smash can combo into itself 2-3 times at low %) then once up smash sends him too high, do up air juggles or nair juggles. and end it with a powerful hit that sends at a low angle like fair. Try to get that fair with a strong pikmin. For example, if you have a white pikmin then a yellow one, do one more up air then use the yellow for the fair. He has bad vertical recovery so low angle moves really limit his options.

Mastering oos game also helps a lot, cause olimar has great oos game and has many options with his low short hop (nair oos, bair, fair, purple pikmin up smash when going for the kill or just any other up smash to start a combo, and of course grab). Being a DK player, I like to abuse opponent's poor oos game(it's pretty easy to notice how good a player's oos game is when playing them) by doing nairs and fairs on shield and then jab because the shield stun throws a lot of people off. If DK does a nair or fair on your shield(except a well spaced fair), that can lead to a free, brutal, combo/juggle out of nair, grab, or up smash. That brutal combo will then lead to an edgeguard situation which I will talk about next.

When edgeguarding him, don't stand around on stage and try to wait to see what DK does. Doing this just makes your brain go back and forth between decisions and will get you overwhelmed make you want to shoot someone when he sneaks his way back every time. When you see him recover with up b, just jump out and make a decision whether it's fair or dair or whatever, just jump out there and do it. Your vertical recovery is better than his so it's impossible for him to be recovering in a way that will prevent you from getting back if you hit him. Even if you get hit, it's a weak hitbox and unless you jump into it and lose your jump, you will get back just fine.


Also, recover low since DK can't go down too far and make it back safely. Use the range on that up b and delay your rise up until you see an opening



Talking about all this makes me want to play Olimar lol. Would you mind Robosteven?

Also, one may ask "Why would you post a guide on how to beat DK?
the reason is that the better my opponents get, the better I can get myself

 

[robosteven]

dude Olimar's legit that's why I play him lol

Typically my issue with any matchup is landing the grab. As long as I can do that multiple times, I'm golden. If I can't it's all juggles and nairs.

 

[POOB]

dude Olimar's legit that's why I play him lol

Typically my issue with any matchup is landing the grab. As long as I can do that multiple times, I'm golden. If I can't it's all juggles and nairs.

Techchasing and punishing landings are the easiest ways to get grabs. By punishing landings, I mostly mean out of an attack. like a d tilt for example. Landing grabs is probably the thing I'm best at in smash with every character lol. I just always look for opportunities cause I'm used to playing characters with good grab game.

 

[robosteven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KUwbgGXAdaA#t=45

 

[B.W.]

I don't know if anyone here was complaining about the matchup.

Personally I feel this matchup is actually fairly even because they both punish each other fairly hard and can kill each other easy if you play it right.

The first character to make a mistake here can potentially lose their stock.

 

[robosteven]

I actually love playing against DK because it feels really even. It's kinda like the Ganon matchup IMO. It's easy to combo Ganon into oblivion, but once you slip up he can punish Olimar really hard.

 

[steelguttey]

s/o to @ POOB to being better than me at olimar

 

[Scuba Steve]

Yo, you can SDI DK's jab combo to get behind him and make him miss the grab
http://www.twitch.tv/austinpm/b/546401173?t=3h54m0s

You can also buffer a spot dodge when you get hit by his jab combo at low percent
http://www.twitch.tv/austinpm/b/546401173?t=4h04m5s

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Donkey Kong

alright guys thats the end of the week. this weeks matchup is Falco. woop

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Or
Just talk about the MU as time passes
Use the video thread
N00bs

 

[steelguttey]

Or
Just talk about the MU as time passes
Use the video thread
N00bs

what

 

[Choice Scarf]

No keep going! The scheduling of specific character discussion hasn't really occurred to this degree of organization before. I want to see where it goes 'cause it looks much better than the usual unannounced "how to I deal with this matchup?" scenario that people may not even reply to. It has potential to be a much better system.

 

[B.W.]

So far this has been a really good system.

As for the Falco matchup though, I can't really say much because I don't play a lot of Falco players in the MW.

All I know is you want a stage with platforms to help avoid lasers. You also want the stage to be large (like Dreamland) because Falco can't recover but you can.

You can 0-Death him once you come in contact with him.

Olimar is hard to pillar, or so says some of the Falco players I have played, but they might just not be very good compared to others.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

I don't know that much about this matchup so I'm willing to say that Olimar is able to wreck Falco, however... if your fighting against a Falco that knows how to use lazers, your boned. Olimar doesn't have the speed to defend himself from a lazer rush. In a sense, it's like Marios fireballs only they are faster and can potentially punish harder.

I agree with BW, in that you want a larger stage with platforms. In general, I think Olimar does better ion larger stages, as it gives him time for his pikmin to grow as well as play in some DD games.

 

[BC.]

Hello guys! New to Olimar board though I've been playing him since brawl, and in PM since he was released. I have experience in the Falco matchup because my scene has many oldschool melee players who just use their spacies in PM.

Falco can be up-throw or down-throw chaingrabbed at low percents obviously. Your opponent can DI the throws so that they land behind you, and this can be a pain to deal with because Olimar's grab can whiff at point blank range. You can remedy this by simply doing pivot grabs. You want to land a grab or chaingrab into a blue pikmin grab, because blue up-throw has enough knockback to start a combo on fast fallers, even at 0%. Easiest and most reliable combo after up-throw is up-smash, (maybe 1 or 2 more up smashes) up-air, double jump forward air. You can use the tip of up-air (sour-spot) in a juggle to bring Falco back to the ground to combo into up smash again.

Always try to end your combos with f-air and not u-air, because u-air won't kill anyways, but f-air will likely put Falco offstage. When he is off-stage, do the tether character ledgehog, forcing him to land on stage. Punish with a ledgejump down-air, which will spike him into the ground and combo into anything. And the reason I am going into such detail for combos and punishes? Well Falco, just like Fox, dominates the neutral game so hard, that optimizing your punishes when you do manage to hit him really is the key to this matchup. In a 4-stock match, it is not uncommon for me to get 1 zero-to-death on Falco off of a grab. Just grab, blue up-throw, up-smash, juggle a bit til you can land a f-air which puts him off stage, and edgeguard. One trick I like to do to Falco when he is offstage is run towards the ledge but then wave dash backwards. This will bait Falco into using side-B on stage because he thinks you are going for the ledge. When you read his side-b onto stage punish it with down smash. If you know or think Falco is going to offstage firebird to get back, then do a decisive run-off-stage f-air before the up-b activates (Easy to do because unlike Fox, Falco's up-b has no hitbox while charging, and it has a smaller distance).

Purple Pikmin: acquiring 2 of these bad boys will make this matchup MUCH easier, if you are so lucky. Lasers knock back pikmin when thrown, but when you throw 2 pikmin in a row, the 2nd one will make it through. (This applies to Fox as well) You can use 2 subsequent purple tosses (preferably after a hop) to lock down falco and get a free in on him.

When Falco is in on you, your best OoS options are just roll away, or N-air. Assuming the Falco plays perfectly, you'll never shield grab him. If you want to go for a shield grab, be my guest, as the reward for landing a grab is tremendous.

If Falco is laser camping, don't be afraid to spend some time to camp yourself and get a better pikmin lineup (this is what I do). His lasers don't do much damage at all, so spend some time to throw pikmin you don't want offstage. In this matchup, you want Purples, Blues (up-throw can start combos at low percents, and back/forward throw easily gets him offstage), and yellows (immune to lasers, shine won't get them off when latched on either). White pikmin deserve a special note, because their up-throw will easily combo into a forward air at high percents, and purple pikmin are ordered after whites, so landing a white grab at around 80% or higher will usually result in a kill.

For neutral: Stay mobile. Get good at powershielding lasers. When you have a purple, short hop toss it and go for a safe approach. When you have a yellow pikmin, throw it from the ground, run forward, and space yourself to grab falco's landing (he will expect to be safe from the short hop laser but the yellow will have absorbed it).

I feel like I could write much more, but this is already approaching TLDR territory and beyond. If some of this is obvious I apologize.

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Falco

Thats the end of falco week. This week is Fox week! i think after this im gonna do a week dedicated to spacies but idk.

 

[B.W.]

Fox? Pick a different character cuz this matchup is awful.

Fox is faster and hits Olimar pretty hard. Shine removes Pikmin safely (something I failed to mention vs Falco), and his laser camping ability let's him do constant damage while running circles around Olimar.

Big stages are a no go because Fox can run around, small stages are bad because of how much faster Fox can kill Olimar and medium stages arent advantageous in any way either.

This matchup really is just terrible.

 

[BC.]

Fox? Pick a different character cuz this matchup is awful.

Fox is faster and hits Olimar pretty hard. Shine removes Pikmin safely (something I failed to mention vs Falco), and his laser camping ability let's him do constant damage while running circles around Olimar.

Big stages are a no go because Fox can run around, small stages are bad because of how much faster Fox can kill Olimar and medium stages arent advantageous in any way either.

This matchup really is just terrible.

I also feel that this matchup is unwinnable, despite that Olimar can 0-death him from a grab or up smash.

Lasers knock back pikmin side-B toss and we all know Fox shoots them very fast. Fox can and will outcamp us. Olimar is rather floaty whereas Fox has good combos on floatys and up-smash/up-air. He's too fast and very difficult to grab. Lastly, shinespike is terrifying for Olimar. I'll write on how to actually win this matchup later though

 

[Rhus]

Saw this post in the Fox boards, I'll contribute, but what I have to say might be rubbish because I'm fairly inexperienced.

I must suck at this matchup then, because I play a good Olimar regularly and have reasonable trouble (but I usually win, minus bad matches of tech errors) in the match.

Olimar wombos us pretty hard and like 1 grab is instant death pretty much. Fox is hard to grab though.

We outcamp you because our lasers stop your Pikmin and we have no lag and move much faster than you. We also have a reflector for your pikmin, so we force you to approach. Olimar's options for approaching seem limited here too.

Approaching, perfect spaced Fairs outrange our OoS Usmash as well as of course our grabs. Your far superior range and ridiculous tilt combos hurt us once we get hit, and we pretty much die everytime if you get a grab. I also think basically every move you have beats our options in the air, except maybe our Bair.

Olimar is kind of clunky for Fox to combo. I find that Oli's aerial pluck can help him escape Uthrow>Uair at mid-high percents and the shine knocks him down, so we can't combo out of it. We do approach and pressure you far better than you do us, with our shine shield pressure and extremely fast Nair and dash speed. The shine also helps reset into neutral where we force you into approaching.

Off stage we die instantly, a single one of any of your aerials save Uair (and whites) will kill us as low as like 50% I'm pretty sure. But I find it really bloody hard to shine spike Olimar, might just be me though.

I don't really see this match being worse than 65:35 Fox's favour. I don't contribute much in matchup discussion though, so I don't think my opinion holds a whole lot of value here.

 

[Virum]

I concur with everyone else in the statement that this match-up is absolutely horrible for Olimar. Olimar relies on his mid screen/camping game in order to force a mistake onto the opponent and create an opening. In exchange for his strong camping game he has a pretty mediocre approach without a purple due to his fairly poor mobility and relatively unsafe approach options.

However Fox, a character with a much much stronger approach and pressure game can outcamp this character due to lasers stopping Pikmin. It's honestly kind of stupid. This forces you to try to approach but as aforementioned Olimar's approach isn't very good. Fox's neutral game is so much stronger than Olimar's he really struggles to get much going. Then there's also the fact that Fox can combo Olimar pretty well and can seal easy gimps with a shine spike if he forces him off stage.

If you can however successfully space a grab or an attack that allows you to lead into a grab you can 0 to death him with relative ease. Fox is also easy to gimp, particularly if you have reds as they beat his Up B completely. The issue is of course getting the grab in this first place.

I'd probably rank this as one of Olimar's worst match-ups if not his absolute worst. Definitely worth opting for a different character if you have one. Though I don't think it's unwinnable, it's a very difficult battle to win.

 

[steelguttey]

so, 8-2 is the consensus? 7.5-2.5?

 

[B.W.]

I typed up this big, informative, post and when I hit "post reply" the site says "down for maintenance." Didn't even get saved as a draft... fml.

 

[BC.]

so, 8-2 is the consensus? 7.5-2.5?

I honestly don't know. Olimar can seal his fate in one combo, however landing a good hit on Fox can be nearly impossible unless Fox messes up. Assuming you are fighting an amazing Fox who won't mess up, I think it is 7-3 Fox favor. Never been big on matchup numbers though I just prefer writing how to do the matchup.

Btw, in my experience the best way to get in as Olimar in this matchup is to read his jump and run under up-smash. This will likely combo into one or two more up-smashes, then f-air him and edgeguard. When he is at low percent, you want to grab him with a blue pikmin (blue up throw sends him high enough to start a combo at even 0%), or chaingrab with up-throw or downthrow into a blue pikmin. The easiest and most reliable thing to hit him with to start a 0-death are a blue up-throw, or a non-white up smash.

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Fox

that starts the week for gdubs

 

[jtm94]

I have a really hard time against Olimar as GnW, I would put the MU in his favor.

GnW gets comboed and sies obscenely early from purple and fire pikmin.

 

[Soft Serve]

Nah oli sucks, how can you beat GnW if you don't have a shine?

90/10 for GnW

 

[B.W.]

Despite having 2 GnW players that sometimes go to the local tournaments, I've never played them as Olimar.

You guys are on your own for this one.

 

[robosteven]

Being a character that racks up damage really quickly, Oli can kill G&W really easily. However, G&W's down-tilt makes it really hard to get in with grabs, and bacon can snuff out Pikmin Throw pretty easily. Honestly, it looks 50/50 to me, but I'm not really sure. G&W's ground game is way better than Olimar's, but Olimar's ground game isn't really that great to begin with so it doesn't matter.

tl;dr No idea.

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Game & Watch

this weeks starts ganon yo

 

[robosteven]

oh god Ganon

This matchup is actually hard for me because it makes me think about the game instead of doing braindead grab combos lol

Ganon can be combo'd into oblivion, but as it is with most characters fighting Ganon, any hit will rack up a bunch of damage. Pretty sure his fair outranges Oli's everything (except side-b), too.

The juggles are real though. Ganon's got stomps, but he's combo-food.

 

[B.W.]

Ganondorf is actually easy though. He's slow, has bad recovery, and is combo fodder for Olimar.

Hit him off stage and his stock is gone. He's just a slow Captain Falcon after all.

 

[robosteven]

See, I always go in thinking that Ganon is easy and then I get bopped by punishes.

so basically the matchup is in Oli's favor as long as you play smoothly and consistently and don't panic.

 

[B.W.]

Yeah, you have to respect him still. He is strong, and you will get bopped if you're careless.

If you're sort of far away from him, he literally has like 3 options to approach you. Dash-Attack, Down-B, and SH > F-Air. All of which are fairly easy to see coming. Olimar can stuff two of these, and the other one is so easy to see coming, you can just get out of the way and punish him.

 

[Virum]

If he forces you offstage be careful of his late UAir hitbox that semi spikes you. I'd recommend keeping your distance, forcing him to approach and stuffing him. From there he is combo fodder and if you force him offstage a well spaced FAir or BAir should finish him.

Additionally (correct me if I'm wrong) but aren't White Pikmin immune to darkness/poison damage? If that's the case that's pretty hilarious. Might be me going insane though.

 

[Dandizzle]

Ignore this didn't notice it was alphabetical order