Olimar
Wolf's Current Ratio: +1
Wolf's Current Ratio: +1
Annoying Moves:
Killing:
Zoning:
Chaingrabs/Tilt Locks/Grab Releases:
What To Do Offstage:
Stages
- Strike:
- Ban:
- Pick:
MU Tricksies:
Synopsis and Quotes:
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Olimar Matchup Export~
- Thread starter Ishiey
- Start date
Annoying Moves:
Killing:
Zoning:
Chaingrabs/Tilt Locks/Grab Releases:
What To Do Offstage:
Stages
- Strike:
- Ban:
- Pick:
MU Tricksies:
Synopsis and Quotes:
_Kain_
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2009
- Messages
- 2,154
Nair, Fair if pikmin latch on you.
If they toss and you think they'll touch, shine cancel reflect them back at him
FF bair his shield so he can't shield grab you
His landing options are really bad, other than that weird spinney air move he has no real safe options for Wolf being below him and horizontally his options are also still pretty bad unless he has a purple pikmin to toss
Avoid getting grabbed at early percents
Hold up when you edge him so his up b doesnt stage spike you
If they toss and you think they'll touch, shine cancel reflect them back at him
FF bair his shield so he can't shield grab you
His landing options are really bad, other than that weird spinney air move he has no real safe options for Wolf being below him and horizontally his options are also still pretty bad unless he has a purple pikmin to toss
Avoid getting grabbed at early percents
Hold up when you edge him so his up b doesnt stage spike you
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Never try to Fsmash an Olimar. It'll usually be bad. His Pikmin take the hits first most of the time and you're left WIDE open.
Avoid Sv. I like to have ALOT of range to move around Olimar's. Use Bthrow's more then Dthrow's unless he is at higher percents. Retreating Fair is really good in this matchup. Shine is ok, but not amazing vs Olimar. Try to go to Bf to juggle him a ton. Don't commit to lasers too much except aerial FH ones because they're highly punishable vs this *******.
Avoid Sv. I like to have ALOT of range to move around Olimar's. Use Bthrow's more then Dthrow's unless he is at higher percents. Retreating Fair is really good in this matchup. Shine is ok, but not amazing vs Olimar. Try to go to Bf to juggle him a ton. Don't commit to lasers too much except aerial FH ones because they're highly punishable vs this *******.
Joe, is there a way that you can record a crap ton of videos against Logic? This match-up is horribly underdeveloped and it may turn out important because both characters seem to be a bit on the rising curve. I really have no idea how this match-up is supposed to work or to be played - I'd probably need to see a wealth of video material to get a good grasp of it.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I'll try. I don't wanna MM him at CoT5, but I'm MM'ing Dabuz so that'll help lol.
I never fully understand this MU, but it's definitely really close to even, if not a tiny bit in our advantage.
Don't CP Olimar to Frigate, he gets more yellows (better priority, larger hitboxes, go through lasers) and purples (much better priority, kill crazy early) there, Wolf doesn't like that. I hear that Brinstar is bad for Olimar.
His non-Pikmin attacks have great priority, his utilt beats our fsmash For reasons Seagull mentioned, I don't think fsmash is such a good punishing option here. Not that I've tried this out, but I'm pretty sure DACUS is better because when spaced decently the first hit will come out close to Olimar so it should hit him and the Pikmin at the same time.
Do not force the kill. Just, don't. When camping, you can reflect Pikmin back at Olimar when he throws them, or shine them off if you use it right when they're about to do damage to you. His grab is a bit slow, so if you SHFF bair his shield and then shine it'll counter a shieldgrab attempt.
Don't CP Olimar to Frigate, he gets more yellows (better priority, larger hitboxes, go through lasers) and purples (much better priority, kill crazy early) there, Wolf doesn't like that. I hear that Brinstar is bad for Olimar.
His non-Pikmin attacks have great priority, his utilt beats our fsmash
For reasons Seagull mentioned, I don't think fsmash is such a good punishing option here. Not that I've tried this out, but I'm pretty sure DACUS is better because when spaced decently the first hit will come out close to Olimar so it should hit him and the Pikmin at the same time.Do not force the kill. Just, don't. When camping, you can reflect Pikmin back at Olimar when he throws them, or shine them off if you use it right when they're about to do damage to you. His grab is a bit slow, so if you SHFF bair his shield and then shine it'll counter a shieldgrab attempt.
SinisterB
Smash Champion
Retreating Fair is amazing in this MU, it stops his Pikmin and it's good for spacing. Fair -> DACUS is a nice punish every once and awhile since it's so quick.
Watch out for grabs at low percents. That's a given. Like Ish said don't push the kill, Oli dies fast without his superarmor whistle. A fresh Dsmash is usually good at about 90+%. Shine is great for edgeguarding and reflecting thrown pikmin. When Oli's recovering, generally, if he let's himself fall he'll do a rising Uair. Shine it or time your ledge grab. Kain had an important factor in edgeguarding Oli; Hold up. If you can beat his rising Uair chances are Oli's lost a stock.
Air break grab release --> Flash can work on Lylat during the tilt. You have to time it right though, obviously.
Don't rush Oli, instead I find it's good to Bair wall (like usual) or whatever until you see an opening. Don't get greedy if you get up close. If Oli misses a grab or something, Wolf's got a lot he can rack percent with, but retreat before he pulls out something stupid fast with high priority.
Staying campy with blaster is always good.
I'd say Lylat is a decent CP if you're comfortable with it. Other than that I generally stick to neutrals.
Idk if anything I said is really useful or not, but I feel like Wolf definatley has the advantage against Oli. lol.
Watch out for grabs at low percents. That's a given. Like Ish said don't push the kill, Oli dies fast without his superarmor whistle. A fresh Dsmash is usually good at about 90+%. Shine is great for edgeguarding and reflecting thrown pikmin. When Oli's recovering, generally, if he let's himself fall he'll do a rising Uair. Shine it or time your ledge grab. Kain had an important factor in edgeguarding Oli; Hold up. If you can beat his rising Uair chances are Oli's lost a stock.
Air break grab release --> Flash can work on Lylat during the tilt. You have to time it right though, obviously.
Don't rush Oli, instead I find it's good to Bair wall (like usual) or whatever until you see an opening. Don't get greedy if you get up close. If Oli misses a grab or something, Wolf's got a lot he can rack percent with, but retreat before he pulls out something stupid fast with high priority.
Staying campy with blaster is always good.
I'd say Lylat is a decent CP if you're comfortable with it. Other than that I generally stick to neutrals.
Idk if anything I said is really useful or not, but I feel like Wolf definatley has the advantage against Oli. lol.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
First of all, i will say the MU is probably 50:50, maybe 55:45 oli's favor. I will try to detail my MU views after COT5. BTW, im one of the quickest name-searchers in all the land. :3
I was waiting for you to find your way in here lol. You've played quite a lot of Wolves, looking forward to what you have to say.
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
+1 for wofl because the japanese says so and I trust them when it comes to smash
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
JAPANESE JAPANESE JAPANESE JAPANEse
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
Completely even MU IMO
-Wolf's bair is great on oli's shield and forces olimar to react, but the best reaction depends on how wolf spaces and times bairs. The one thing all wolfs should note is if olimar PSs a bair, olimar can grab him.
-when both characters are in a neutral position, i think the one who plays a better aggro wins, because neither character's camping game is as effective on each other compared to the aggro games. Olimar can run up to wolf, shield the fsmash or laser, and then grab wolf. Olimar can shorthop side-B a purple at wolf, and then he is pretty free to do W/E to wolf. Oli can roll into wolf, then use uptilt or upsmash or pivot grab. Ect. Oli can bait out a defensive wolf's attack and pivot grab it.
Wolf can bair wall, fake out with a short-hop, then fastfall into jab, grab, W/E wolf does at close range. Wolf can fsmash right through every smash but a yellow fsmash at the tip. Wolf can fall down with down-B, and since most olimars take advantage of wolf being above him, it leads to a free hit. Wolf can roll into olimar than grab. DACUS punishes olimar if he ever leaps into the air
Wolf definitely wins the aggro game in terms of getting the first hit, even with oli's major defensive options.
-On the other hand, juggling is oli's advantage. Quite simply, olimar can juggle with a good mix of up-air, nair, upsmash, charged upsmash, pivot grab, uptilt, up-B, and purple side-B. Wolf has few options to get to the ground at percents lower than 80%. He can fastfall airdodge or nair, can use the invincibilty from down-B, DI away obviously, and land on platforms, but even so, he can take lots of damage due to oli's jugglign game.
Wolf doesn't juggle olimar well because olimar has whistle and wolf has few multi-hitting moves, but olimar is floaty and his aerials don't have good range compared to wolf. Wolf will mainly benefit by getting oli back into the air before he can situate himself on landing, mostly by using fsmash right before oli lands and shieldgrabbing any landing.
-Olimar and wolf won't have trouble killing each other once they get each other in a juggle or off stage, but throwing flat out kills moves doesn't work with either character without a good read.
Each character really wants to get each-other on the edge, wolf has dsmash and bair to cover ways olimar can get up, and a fresh dsmash at the edge, with proper edge-gaurding, kills olimar at roughly 65% or higher, bair won't do that unless the olimar has bad DI or high %s, but wolf can take advantage of olimar as he tries to recover. DON'T be right next to the edge, lest you eat olimar's up-air through the ledge.
Olimar's fsmash>wolf at the edge. Its covers get up jumps, regular get-ups, planking, staying on the edge too long, wolf really needs to look for openings betwen and during oli's fsmash in order to get up. Get-up attacks when timed to end just as olimar starts another fsmash is normally a good idea for wolf, getup roll is the same concept but riskier because olimar has more time to react. And jump off edge->immediate air dodge gets wolf of the edge normally, but at the risk that he committed himself to an airdodge near the edge.
Wolf wants olimar at jab range, while olimar will be trying to keep wolf at fsmash range
olimar's earliest kill move is upsmash, that move is fast, powerful, and safe, so expect olimar to use that a lot, especially at kill %s. Olimar's more reliable kill moves are fair and grab. Olimar mains, when going for the kill, NEED you to either throw out something punishable, otherwise landing the kill is hard. Wolf, on the other hand is lucky, do shield pressure, poke it with dsmash at high %s, and that is oli's stock.
Your not gonna be punishing much of what olimar does, just abuse priority and pressure.
The rest of this MU just consists of making good reads on each other and keeping momentum, its too even.
Most oli's CP lylat and halberd in that order. Good olis might CP castle siege, which is amazing. I would CP frigate because of extra purples+yellows. IDK what wolf wants to ban form those. For the starters, every olimar is different, so idk what to say, besides you should probably strike SV, because the moving platform gives olimar a very good safety net. IIRC wolf hates lylat, strike that, and castle siege is great for oli.
Oli and wolf do well on similar stages, but after fighting Seagull, i have to say that wolf going to halberd is legitimately a good CP. Yoshi's island would probably also work well for wolf, and idk how wolf does on RC and brinstar, but neither of those stages are good for olimar.
-Wolf's bair is great on oli's shield and forces olimar to react, but the best reaction depends on how wolf spaces and times bairs. The one thing all wolfs should note is if olimar PSs a bair, olimar can grab him.
-when both characters are in a neutral position, i think the one who plays a better aggro wins, because neither character's camping game is as effective on each other compared to the aggro games. Olimar can run up to wolf, shield the fsmash or laser, and then grab wolf. Olimar can shorthop side-B a purple at wolf, and then he is pretty free to do W/E to wolf. Oli can roll into wolf, then use uptilt or upsmash or pivot grab. Ect. Oli can bait out a defensive wolf's attack and pivot grab it.
Wolf can bair wall, fake out with a short-hop, then fastfall into jab, grab, W/E wolf does at close range. Wolf can fsmash right through every smash but a yellow fsmash at the tip. Wolf can fall down with down-B, and since most olimars take advantage of wolf being above him, it leads to a free hit. Wolf can roll into olimar than grab. DACUS punishes olimar if he ever leaps into the air
Wolf definitely wins the aggro game in terms of getting the first hit, even with oli's major defensive options.
-On the other hand, juggling is oli's advantage. Quite simply, olimar can juggle with a good mix of up-air, nair, upsmash, charged upsmash, pivot grab, uptilt, up-B, and purple side-B. Wolf has few options to get to the ground at percents lower than 80%. He can fastfall airdodge or nair, can use the invincibilty from down-B, DI away obviously, and land on platforms, but even so, he can take lots of damage due to oli's jugglign game.
Wolf doesn't juggle olimar well because olimar has whistle and wolf has few multi-hitting moves, but olimar is floaty and his aerials don't have good range compared to wolf. Wolf will mainly benefit by getting oli back into the air before he can situate himself on landing, mostly by using fsmash right before oli lands and shieldgrabbing any landing.
-Olimar and wolf won't have trouble killing each other once they get each other in a juggle or off stage, but throwing flat out kills moves doesn't work with either character without a good read.
Each character really wants to get each-other on the edge, wolf has dsmash and bair to cover ways olimar can get up, and a fresh dsmash at the edge, with proper edge-gaurding, kills olimar at roughly 65% or higher, bair won't do that unless the olimar has bad DI or high %s, but wolf can take advantage of olimar as he tries to recover. DON'T be right next to the edge, lest you eat olimar's up-air through the ledge.
Olimar's fsmash>wolf at the edge. Its covers get up jumps, regular get-ups, planking, staying on the edge too long, wolf really needs to look for openings betwen and during oli's fsmash in order to get up. Get-up attacks when timed to end just as olimar starts another fsmash is normally a good idea for wolf, getup roll is the same concept but riskier because olimar has more time to react. And jump off edge->immediate air dodge gets wolf of the edge normally, but at the risk that he committed himself to an airdodge near the edge.
Wolf wants olimar at jab range, while olimar will be trying to keep wolf at fsmash range
olimar's earliest kill move is upsmash, that move is fast, powerful, and safe, so expect olimar to use that a lot, especially at kill %s. Olimar's more reliable kill moves are fair and grab. Olimar mains, when going for the kill, NEED you to either throw out something punishable, otherwise landing the kill is hard. Wolf, on the other hand is lucky, do shield pressure, poke it with dsmash at high %s, and that is oli's stock.
Your not gonna be punishing much of what olimar does, just abuse priority and pressure.
The rest of this MU just consists of making good reads on each other and keeping momentum, its too even.
Most oli's CP lylat and halberd in that order. Good olis might CP castle siege, which is amazing. I would CP frigate because of extra purples+yellows. IDK what wolf wants to ban form those. For the starters, every olimar is different, so idk what to say, besides you should probably strike SV, because the moving platform gives olimar a very good safety net. IIRC wolf hates lylat, strike that, and castle siege is great for oli.
Oli and wolf do well on similar stages, but after fighting Seagull, i have to say that wolf going to halberd is legitimately a good CP. Yoshi's island would probably also work well for wolf, and idk how wolf does on RC and brinstar, but neither of those stages are good for olimar.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
One thing i forgot to mention:
This match can quickly become aerial based (surprisingly) since each character has an air game effective on each other's ground and air games.
Me vs. Seagull Man have very good sets which adequately show how the MU should be played by both characters
This match can quickly become aerial based (surprisingly) since each character has an air game effective on each other's ground and air games.
Me vs. Seagull Man have very good sets which adequately show how the MU should be played by both characters
D
Deleted member
Guest
What is the best way to approach a grounded Olimar? Sometimes, it can be a hassle for me to get in close.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Jab mixups, retreat bair/fair on shield, or grab. Oli's tricky. If you do grab him then Bthrow or Uthrow. It's best to get him above you even though Dthrow does more damage (Least at lower percents when he won't get floored by Dthrow it's good to Uthrow/Bthrow).