Olimar general discussion

[steelguttey]

anyone on dolphin netplay?

 

[robosteven]

If there's one thing I'd like to see from you, and other Olimar players as well, is making use of Whistle to make Pikmin cut in line.

It's an especially handy way to get Purple up front again right after just using it, and with Purple ready to cut the rest of the Pikmin it gives you a real projectile at the ready as well.

From playing some friendlies recently I noticed this. Any idea what the conditions are to get it to work? Like, is it Pikmin Throw and then whistle? I can't remember, but I remember consistently using some attack with a purple Pikmin, whistling, immediately being able to use it again, and being like "what the **** I didn't know that could happen." It's awesome, but I'm not 100% sure what causes it or how to get it to consistently work.

Whenever Ness is above you you should up smash or up air instead of nair because those attacks will keep Ness above you, and Ness does not have many options when Olimar is below him.

I'll work on this. I usually go for nairs because I instinctively use nair as a combo setup and to rack up damage, but uair and up-smash would probably be better choices.

 

[Matthew]

From playing some friendlies recently I noticed this. Any idea what the conditions are to get it to work? Like, is it Pikmin Throw and then whistle? I can't remember, but I remember consistently using some attack with a purple Pikmin, whistling, immediately being able to use it again, and being like "what the **** I didn't know that could happen." It's awesome, but I'm not 100% sure what causes it or how to get it to consistently work.


I'll work on this. I usually go for nairs because I instinctively use nair as a combo setup and to rack up damage, but uair and up-smash would probably be better choices.

If you have four different kinds of pikmin in line and you use one for any attack (excluding specials), you can whistle four times in a row to have the same pikmin next in line. The number of times you whistle is equal to the number of kinds of pikmin you have in line if you want to use the same kind twice in a row. The pikmin must already be in order before the initial attack.

 

[steelguttey]

yea but if you move the slightest inch they go out of order

pain in the booty

 

[B.W.]

I really need to make a video on how Pikmin Order works...

 

[robosteven]

I really need to make a video on how Pikmin Order works...

plz

 

[B.W.]

I'll try to do it sometime this week.

 

[Matthew]

Here are a few tips that come straight from Pink Fresh:
1. In the neutral game, Olimar is a campy player and you should use side special a lot instead of always going in for the direct approach.
2. keep in the range of the enemy so that as soon as he wiffs an attack, you can punish.

I tend to always go for the direct approach because I always play against CPU's whenever I am not at a tournament and I rarely get to play against my friend. CPU's rarely DI out of combos so that makes me too eager to start a combo when I should bait in and punish instead. Try not to make this mistake with Olimar.

Here are some tips that I suggest:
1. Don't make the mistake of using survival DI when you should be using SDI (or combo DI) instead. Survival DI is when you point both joysticks perpendicular to your trajectory to increase your survivability, this kind of DI should only be used at high percents to survive attacks that would KO you. SDI is when you DI away from the opponent to escape combos, and this kind should only be used at low percents. If you use survival DI at low percents, you are pretty much giving the enemy free combos. If you use SDI at high percents, you are increasing you chances of loosing a stock. Although there are some instances where you need to use combo DI at high percents to escape multiple hit attacks like fox's up-air, or to avoid a combo like d-throw to fair. I am not going to go that in depth about DI because I am sure that most of you already know about DI, I just want to make it known to those who don't.

2. Get experience by going to as many tournaments as possible and playing as many different people as possible. This way you learn how to DI out of combos of many characters. I have gotten so much better at the Ness matchup because he is becoming such a popular character, and I end up playing against many different Ness players. (BTW, if you already don't know, DI Ness' down-throw forward so that he can't get you with the bair.)

3. Don't be afraid to ask pro players for tips. It really helps!

As the tournament went, I ripped through my first two sets, but ended up having to play against Hat in my third match. On top of that he used shiek, which is a really bad matchup against Olimar if the Shiek player has good spacing. Hat even told me that Olimar's recovery needs to be improved. I got beat by Hat, and then I had to play a Wolf main. The first game of that set was extremely close, but I lost. Unfortunately I also lost the second match, but nevertheless I still had a great time at Xanadu. The place was so crowded and I think there were like 92 entrants for PM. Jeez. Fortunately, local a card store close to where I live may start holding weekly tournaments so I will be able to get so much more practice. I hope the tips that I mentioned helped.

 

[steelguttey]

advice

yo whats your skype you gotta get in on this 20xx olimar how-to-remove-rng **** we got goin on in the skype group

 

[Matthew]

yo whats your skype you gotta get in on this 20xx olimar how-to-remove-rng **** we got goin on in the skype group

I have not used skype in forever may have to reset my password

 

[robosteven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HL_TIDINI

God I hated this set. Any advice?

Aside from don't switch to Lucas, I'm mostly talking the Oli matchup. I assumed I had that game in the bag and then fireballs happened. Warioware's a great Oli stage, but not really when there are constant fireballs coming at you. What stages should I take Mario to instead? Tips would be appreciated.

inb4 never go Lucas again

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HL_TIDINI

God I hated this set. Any advice?

Aside from don't switch to Lucas, I'm mostly talking the Oli matchup. I assumed I had that game in the bag and then fireballs happened. Warioware's a great Oli stage, but not really when there are constant fireballs coming at you. What stages should I take Mario to instead? Tips would be appreciated.

inb4 never go Lucas again

I really wish I could help you out, but mario is difficult for me. As you saw, his fireballs are incredible against him and his jab combo set's him up really well for the Fair. Watch out for the Dair because it can cut through a lot of Olimars attacks. I can see Dtilt working to evade under his fireball approach but your spacing would have to be excellent.

I'd love to get some solid tips against him too.

 

[Matthew]

You may want to take Mario to Pokemon Stadium 2 or another stage that you can get more breathing space while having a low ceiling. You can use pikmin throw to stop fireballs, and use d tilt to crawl under them. In the neutral game, especially when Mario is spamming fireballs, spam pikmin throw, because the attack is much faster than shooting fireballs and it will force Mario to approach. I would try a roll behind Mario if he is jumping and shooting a fireball, or better yet, if you read the jump you can punish with a run-under up-smash or intercept him in the air with a fair. Btw, you should jump cancel grab with Olimar so that you can space it better and make punishing more difficult because Olimar's standing grab has an earlier FAF than the dash grab. Also, I don't really like warioware with Olimar because the platforms never seem to really complement Olimar's combos. Smashville probably would have been the better choice. I would suggest Yoshi's Story instead of warioware if you want to play on a very low ceiling and very close blast zones.

 

[steelguttey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HL_TIDINI

God I hated this set. Any advice?

Aside from don't switch to Lucas, I'm mostly talking the Oli matchup. I assumed I had that game in the bag and then fireballs happened. Warioware's a great Oli stage, but not really when there are constant fireballs coming at you. What stages should I take Mario to instead? Tips would be appreciated.

inb4 never go Lucas again

http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/28okkb/critique_my_mario_struggled_against_lucas/
apparently he had trouble with your lucas so idk

 

[robosteven]

You may want to take Mario to Pokemon Stadium 2 or another stage that you can get more breathing space while having a low ceiling. You can use pikmin throw to stop fireballs, and use d tilt to crawl under them. In the neutral game, especially when Mario is spamming fireballs, spam pikmin throw, because the attack is much faster than shooting fireballs and it will force Mario to approach. I would try a roll behind Mario if he is jumping and shooting a fireball, or better yet, if you read the jump you can punish with a run-under up-smash or intercept him in the air with a fair. Btw, you should jump cancel grab with Olimar so that you can space it better and make punishing more difficult because Olimar's standing grab has an earlier FAF than the dash grab. Also, I don't really like warioware with Olimar because the platforms never seem to really complement Olimar's combos. Smashville probably would have been the better choice. I would suggest Yoshi's Story instead of warioware if you want to play on a very low ceiling and very close blast zones.

Weird. I feel exactly the opposite of your opinion on the WarioWare thing, but I did make a good number of mistakes that game, especially with grabs. Like, I meant to pivot at some points, and I know about the jump-cancelled grab. Either way, Pikmin Throw might have worked, but it's still WarioWare and letting any of my Pikmin die is not an option for the way I play. They need to flower, and throwing them risks throwing them offstage. I think Yoshi's would've been a better choice though, thanks for the advice. PS2 is one of my favorite stages, so maybe I would've done better there.

I gotta think more about stagepicks in general. I always ban FD (because no platforms is bad for Oli), and ban Smashville (simply because only one platform to work with) and Green Hill Zone (same reason for Smashville). I don't care for Fountain. Which stages do you guys think are the best for Oli? I used to think WarioWare, but I've been struggling as of recent.

 

[Matthew]

Stages with high ceilings are bad for Olimar such as Fountain of Dreams, Dreamland, Battlefield, and Green Hill Zone. You Want to pick low ceiling stages because some of Olimar's most practical KO moves hit the opponent vertically, and if the ceiling is lower, they are more likely to be KO'd. My stage bans for Olimar are always Fountain of Dreams, Dreamland, and the third will usually be another medium-high ceiling stage. My favorite Olimar stages are PS2 and Yoshi's Story. I like Yoshi's Story because the three platforms cover the entire stage, so it makes it difficult for opponents to get back on the ground when they are being juggled, but you must watch out for Randall because he can glitch out tether recoveries. Btw Olimar can meteor Mario's recovery if you time it just right, although it requires you to have a very good prediction about his recovery since Mario has so many tools at his disposal. Sometimes it is better to wait for him to get back to stage and then punish. Also Olimar should be able to chaingrab Mario with down-throw, but if you notice the opponent DI'ing down and away, up-throw should make for a free combo setup.

 

[B.W.]

One big thing that I learned at UFGT is, for the most part, small stages as Olimar are overrated. They're good in some matchups but Olimar welcomes space to move to get around things like projectiles.

Mario is one of these cases. Bigger stages will help you get around him. I would opt for medium sized stages mostly though. PS2 and BF are the stages you want to strike to. Smashville is okay but it gives Mario more recovery options while also giving him a way to go deeper when he edge guards. It gives Olimar more ways as well but he really doesn't need them.

Counter picks I recommend are Lylat and the two starters you should strike to.

 

[RedHotWaffles]

anyone on dolphin netplay?

I netplay with Roy/Olimar as Redhotwaffles

 

[Matthew]

What do you guys think about slightly increasing Olimar's dash and air speed. The increased air speed would improve his recovery and the increased dash speed would generally improve a lot of things in his metagame.

 

[B.W.]

By air speed, do you mean his max amount of momentum he can gain or do you mean his aerial control, the the Jiggs and Wario are known for?

I'm fine with how he moves right now though. His recovery is also fine, it doesn't need much help. Vertical boost PMBR lied about would be nice though.

 

[Matthew]

By air speed, do you mean his max amount of momentum he can gain or do you mean his aerial control, the the Jiggs and Wario are known for?

I'm fine with how he moves right now though. His recovery is also fine, it doesn't need much help. Vertical boost PMBR lied about would be nice though.

I am talking about the max amount of momentum and it would help make up for the fact that there is no vertical boost.

 

[B.W.]

I don't know if it would make up for it, but that effects more than his recovery.

I'd rather just have the vertical boost

 

[Matthew]

I don't know if it would make up for it, but that effects more than his recovery.

I'd rather just have the vertical boost

I would also rather have the vertical boost, but this is in the case that if they do not add it. I also agree with you on the dashing speed thing, that it does not really need to be increased at all. Hat even said that Olimar's recovery needs a buff. I guess you have good DI if you don't think the recovery really needs a buff.

 

[B.W.]

He can recover from so far away, so long as he has at least 3 Pikmin.

Like. I'm really surprised that people think his recovery is bad.

 

[ManoxMano]

imo, people take this opinion only because they've burned the double jump and pikmin pull already, and they get hit too far to do another attempt. Its important to learn the range of upB so you dont burn off all the recovery tools at once

Recently picked up Olimar, but he's real combo food (right?) vs meta knight and sheik i get d throw'd chaingrab by them often. DI only helps so much - DI away helps me get "at least" a tech but then I just end up at the ledge and I'm a terrible spot.

He's fun though. Trying to get a feel for his comboes, I also enjoy countering attempts of aerial approaches with nair, super effective

 

[B.W.]

Sheik, yes, but who isn't?

Metaknight, not really combo "food" but Meta Knight has combos on everyone to an extent. Chaingrabbing only works when the opponent can read/react to you. Both of them are great at chaingrabbing though, and Olimar's techroll is booty.

Any Meta Knight player I've talked to though thinks that the matchup for Meta Knight/Olimar is very even, after I've played them. MK players also tend to have some of the most fun playing against (my) Olimar as well. I also agree on that regard.

 

[ManoxMano]

I think it's even as well...until they get a hit/grab
Not sure what Olimar can do when it's close range, many of the chars i have trouble against all excel in that spacing. I tend to shield and pray, get lucky grabs haha. But I want to try nair OOS some more

 

[B.W.]

Olimar can hit Sheik and MK back pretty hard as well. The entire game with MK at least is who spaces and converts off their hits better.

Sheik is just, whoever gets the other offstage first wins.

 

[RedHotWaffles]

I've been labbing with oli for a while and wanted to know what you guys think of grounded up B. It feels like it's a really good tool for stuffing sh approaches and just as a general anti-air. I haven't been able to use it in a real game yet but it comes out quick and hits at about 45 degrees. I'm also thinking it could be an okay followup for uthrow and dthrow depending on DI.

 

[B.W.]

Sometimes I follow up my juggles with Up-B in the air, for that extra damage and to knock them away.

On the ground, I used to use it out of shield, but rarely, because it is quick to come out. The real issue with it is that it takes a lot of frames to recover, so if you miss you're screwed... And sometimes when you hit with it you're still screwed.

 

[Oracle]

i have found that you can turn around up b out of shield, and it is like the best thing ever

 

[steelguttey]

yea the sweetspot of up-b is ass now so its not really useful anymore

 

[B.W.]

Which is funny because MK kept all of his U-Air juggle glory AND his Up-B is style a Star KO combo finisher.

 

[Wyntir]

I just started using Olimar. I have to say he's quick, great grab range, & great combos. I'm curious to know what is the purpose for his Down B move? I use it but it does nothing.. Is it a reflective move? A energy absorbing move? I don't recall it actually doing any damage to the enemies. Hmm...? (*_*)

 

[SSS]

I just started using Olimar. I have to say he's quick, great grab range, & great combos. I'm curious to know what is the purpose for his Down B move? I use it but it does nothing.. Is it a reflective move? A energy absorbing move? I don't recall it actually doing any damage to the enemies. Hmm...? (*_*)

it pulls your Pikmin back to you

 

[Wyntir]

@ SSS Thank you. lol I've died so many b 'cuz I would sit there n spam that move trying to figure it out. Never really noticed those litter ******** running back lol

 

[RedHotWaffles]

It also organizes your pikmin if they're not in order and if they are has the lead pikmin go to the back of the line.

 

[Matthew]

I've been labbing with oli for a while and wanted to know what you guys think of grounded up B. It feels like it's a really good tool for stuffing sh approaches and just as a general anti-air. I haven't been able to use it in a real game yet but it comes out quick and hits at about 45 degrees. I'm also thinking it could be an okay followup for uthrow and dthrow depending on DI.

It can act like an anti-air. I have read shorthopps and punished with grounded up b before against characters like captain falcon and squirtle, although I don't really rely on it anymore. I would rather punish with a pivot grab to start a combo.

 

[WIDL]

So I'm curious, I have played several characters in Project M semi-seriously, but Olimar has always kinda stuck out to me (and I know many people consider him bottom tier, which I don't quite get). I've been back-and-forth doodling with him a couple of times and I just now hit up the subforums to check on some ATs. While this is not really a Olimar specific AT, I'm wondering if you Olimar mains are using b-reversing with him for other purposes than landing (tried searching, but nothing came up)? Since his whistle has practically no lag, Olimar gets the benefit that he can do immediate b-reverse airials, even out of short hops. Can any other characters do something similar as quickly?

Also, how do you feel about Olimar in teams?

 

[B.W.]

I don't B-Reverse much myself because I always forget about it. When I do use it with Whistle though it seems like I can make fairly good use of it. My issue with that though I'd I actively use whistle and usually have a plan for my ordered Pikmin.

Also Olimar is awesome in teams. Pikmin Throw is so good for racking up damage. Just use it on one of your opponents when they're being combo'd by your teamate. Sometimes I'll throw two. Olimar is fairly good at the rescue too, but you have to go offstage for it.