Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Olimar/Alph

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[Blue Banana]

I might as well put this quote here since there is now a dedicated custom moveset thread now and to help other Olimar mains what the customs are.

Neutral B 2 - Hardy Pikmin Pluck
- Plucking Pikmin now has a lot of startup lag.
- Out of the 3 neutral B's, this has the slowest plucking rate; it's impossible to pluck 3 Pikmin with the respawn invincibility.
- Pikmin plucked with this variation can take a lot more hits than default. Using Mario's Dsmash that deals 10% in front of him and Dtilt that deals 5%, it takes:

• At least 9 Dsmashes and a Dtilt to kill a red or yellow Pikmin
• At least 10 Dsmashes to kill a blue Pikmin
• At least 5 Dsmashes to kill a white Pikmin
• At least 15 Dsmashes to kill a purple Pikmin

- Olimar cannot pluck cancel with this variation. Since the animation for pulling the Pikmin out is much longer, trying to pluck cancel results in only triggering the "pulling up" sound.
- Most Pikmin except whites pop up much lower when plucked than the default.

Neutral B 3 - Explosive Pikmin Pluck
- Plucking a Pikmin now creates an explosion in front of Olimar.
- Damage dealt is 8% for reds, yellows, and blues; 5% for whites; and 10% for purples
- A purple pluck KO's Mario at 118% at the starting position of Battlefield Omega
- Pikmin plucked with this variation have very low health than default. If a Pikmin is not in Olimar's line, it is possible for a Pikmin to die prematurely before it comes back without help of Down B.
- Olimar can pluck cancel with this variation, but it feels harder to do so than the default. Additionally, pluck cancelling doesn't create an explosion.
- Pikmin plucked go up at a much higher distance than the default. It can land on the top platform from Battlefield's main platform.
- Has a bit of ending lag, in contrast to the previous one.

Side B 2 - Sticky Pikmin Throw
- Damage is decreased to 5% for purples, 2% per hit for whites, and 1% per hit for all other colors.
- The rate at which the Pikmin hits the opponent when latched on is doubled.
- Number of hits on a standing CPU:

• 0-2%: 16
• 3-25%: 15
• 26-48%: 14
• 49-71%: 13
• 72-94%: 12
• 95-117%: 11
• 118-140%: 10
• 141-163%: 9
• 164-186%: 8
• 187-209%: 7

Testing further is a bit trivial since at this point, Olimar should be aiming to finish off the opponent. (The minimum number of hits a Pikmin can do is 3, at 300+%.)
- Range on the ground seems to be decreased for all colors except whites, which go about 2/3rds of Battlefield Omega
- It can take a few more hits to shake off Pikmin latched on. I tested this and the default side B with custom Neutral B 2, so it may not be relevant to default neutral B.
- All Pikmin share same properties with default otherwise.

Side B 3 - Tackle Pikmin Throw
- All Pikmin have the same properties of purple Pikmin. This means that:

• Pikmin can hit shields.
• Pikmin can deal hitstun and knockback.
• Pikmin can be eaten by Wario, Pocketed by Villager, and sucked in by Rosalina's Gravitational Pull.

- Damage dealt is 3% for whites, 8% for purples, and 5% for all other colors.
- The attack animation is slightly longer than default or Side B 2.
- Range is similar to default.

Up B 2 - Winged Pikmin Jump
- Recovery is now totally vertical; Olimar can only move horizontally while in free-fall.
- Vertical range is similar to default with 2 Pikmin in tow.
- It is still possible to attack out of recovery; however, it seems to be only possible if the move is completely fresh, the window to attack is small, and Olimar will still move upwards after attacking, forcing him into free-fall.
- Range is not affected by Pikmin in tow.
- The move has a windbox around Olimar that pushes opponents away.

Up B 3 - Mighty Winged Pikmin
- Distance traveled is now not affected by number of Pikmin in tow.
- Maximum vertical distance is similar to default with 2 Pikmin in tow.
- More or less seems to function the same as default otherwise.

Down B 2 - Order Tackle
- When Olimar whistles, Pikmin not in line can hit opponents up to 2 times, once when they react to the whistle, and again when they travel through the air.
- Damage dealt by 1st hit is 3% for whites, 5% for purples, and 1% for other colors. 2nd hit deals 2% for whites, 5% for purples, and 3% for other colors.
- It takes longer for Pikmin to come back to Olimar's line, as they seem to jump up higher than default.
- Has a bit of ending lag. It's the slowest of all 3 down Bs.
- Olimar has super armor right before he tweets, though I'm not sure if the time it's active is longer than default.

Down B 3 - Dizzy Whistle
- Whistling now can hit opponents two times. The first hit does no damage and just makes the opponent flinch very briefly. The second does 1% damage, turns the opponent around, and makes him/her gravitate towards Olimar, and does not make him/her flinch.
- If the opponent only gets hit at the very end of the attack, the opponent takes the 2nd hit.
- Range is about a quarter of Battlefield Omega horizontally, and about the height of Olimar vertically, including the antenna.
- This variation does not grant Olimar super armor right before he whistles.

There are some inaccurate information in here due to it being tested in 1.0.3 on 3DS.
- The number of hits a Pikmin does with Side B 2 is higher now that Pikmin attach to the opponent for longer than before. It's now raised from an initial 16 hits to 19 hits.
- Ignore any mention of pluck cancelling since that no longer exists.
- Percentages may be a bit off for Wii U Battlefield but should still be in the same general percentage range.

If anyone has tested out any differences in customs between 1.0.3 and 1.0.4, please let me know so I can make notes about it here in this post.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Hardy Pikmin Pluck is decent, if situational, and primarily depends on match-ups. Characters that either like to bombard Olimar with projectiles (Duck Hunt Dog, Villager, Samus, Link) or have various quick-hits that lack damage output (Fox, Sheik, Meta Knight, Sonic) are the better ones to use Hardy Pikmin Pluck against, due to the increased survival potential making Pikmin a decent method to wall your opponent. If your opponent lacks the above qualities, however, the default is likely to get better mileage.

Explosive Pikmin Pluck seems to be the most inferior of the three, but it does have a niche. The kill potential of the explosive pluck can help to finish heavier fighters with decent efficiency compared to his smashes, and the decreased Pikmin health becomes negligible when said heavy fighters will already be killing Pikmin with only one or two hits in the first place. The fact that the explosion comes out quickly makes it a useable defensive tool if an attack on Olimar becomes too close for comfort. If not fighting characters like Bowser, Ganondorf, Ike, Dedede, or Donkey Kong, it's recommended that you stick with the default special instead.

The decreased range of Sticky Pikmin Throw is a noticeable detriment to Olimar's spacing potential, due to how the faster damage output the Pikmin works great in theory but falls flat in practice when Olimar is required to stay in a closer, easier to punish range to safely aim the throws accurately. You're otherwise missing more of your throws on average if you stay back at Olimar's range that his default side special can use. Considering how Olimar's ammo is especially precious this game and cannot be thrown with affordability for misses, that accuracy average matters.

Tackle Pikmin Throw is a nice alternative to the default. Kill potential with a projectile now becomes a common option for Olimar (as opposed to requiring to manage keeping a Purple Pikmin on him at all times) and it synergizes well with Olimar's neutral and down specials. If the opponent cannot pocket or reflect, I recommend using this.

Neither Up Special is worth considering. Winged Pikmin Jump is fast but otherwise provides little to no horizontal recovery. Mighty Winged Pikmin only becomes better to use if Olimar is in possession of three Pikmin, as having one or no Pikmin will cover less distance than it normally would. Considering how a majority of the time that Olimar needs to recover that he will likely already have less than 3 Pikmin (either via separation or death on being knocked back), the only niche this provides is having a safer recovery if Olimar lands a successful meteor KO and needs to recover back to the stage. This niche doesn't outweigh what it will be taking away from Olimar a majority of the time.

Order Tackle can be an interesting tool based on your opponent's positioning. Especially when combined with Tackle Pikmin Throw, Order Tackle is an excellent way to maintain pressure even after overshooting a Pikmin's trajectory (or in the case of Tackle Pikmin Throw, as a follow-up at low percents after a successful hit). Recommended for Olimar players that are more aggressive and are less reliant on keeping Pikmin on-hand at all times, especially for higher-level players that take advantage of the super armor to perform a pseudo-Rosaluma and launch into a tackling Pikmin.

Dizzy Whistle is a joke. Opponents can charge a down-smash in the middle of being drawn in and guarantee a hit with your lack of super armor. The armor in Olimar's whistle is an important tool and should never be dropped.

All of that said, I'd select from the following pool of sets:

1112 1311 2111 2112 2311 3111 3112 3311

Of these, 2311 and 2312 do well against projectile-users, 3111 and 3112 do well against heavyweights, and 1112 and 1312 are decent sets all around. At least from my experience playing as Olimar this game.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

This is from reddit:

I personally have found 2332 to work well.

Tackle Pikmin Throw provides Olimar with a fast, non-committal projectile to quickly rack up damage and pressure the opponent with hitstun.

Order Tackle works well in tandem with Tackle Pikmin Throw in that it can snuff approaches and edge camping and can consistently help to apply pressure and occasionally lead to shield pokes, and may force the other player to attempt more aerial approaches which can lead to easy shield grab follow ups.

Hardy Pikmin Pluck can make killing Pikmin much more difficult, requiring more commitment from the opponent and granting Olimar a dominant stage presence if Pikmin 'traps' are set up throughout the stage. The path followed by the pikmin also makes this very useful for hitting above platforms.

Mighty Winged Pikmin reduces the need to throw away Pikmin as a tradeoff for improved recovery, helping to further increase their survivability and reduce the amount of time Olimar will have to make himself vulnerable whilst plucking Pikmin.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I managed to knick a few more from Reddit, but I think this is all I'm gonna get.

even as someone who only uses Olimar semi rarely his standard set is easiley the best

his other Plucks all make his Pikmin worse,which is a dumb idea

his throws are worse because theres no way to get damage on the oppenet and less damage is worse

his new Whistles dont have super armor so it can be easiley interrupted

and his Up bs reduce the height or make it impossible to change the way you approach the ledge

1111 is his best set,with maybe 1113 being a decent other choice

It would be great if someone tested Hardy pluck against slower characters like Ganon or D3, since you will usually have enough time to pluck one or even two pikmin after a good hit confirm.

I think you could use it like Hakan's Oil in Street Fighter 4. Just randomly plucking away will leave you vulnerable, so you need to be smart about when to stock up. And since Pikmin are not as vital to Olimars survival as they were in Brawl, you could probably get away with only having one Pikmin for a short amount of time.

Paired with SideB2 you are able do do some seriously disgusting damage with the hardy pikmin. Especially once you land the white ones.

I've been running 1313 as a general Anti-Approach set for some time now and DownB3 really sarted to grow on me. You can view it as a reverse-Mixup of sorts. Bait the enemy into committing to an fsmash or any other attack with a lot of lag and turn him around before he can land it. That's a free punish right there. And you don't have to eat the actual hit, which is a huge plus for a light character like Olimar.

Also, you can use it to change the trajectory of every angled recovery move in the game. This makes characters like Lucario and Rosaluma among others extremely easy to gimp, once you get them off stage. It's basically Mario's cape without the projectile redirection but with a huge hitbox.

I'm pretty sure 1321 could be considered, maybe even 1313.

Sideb3 is definitely Olimar's best move, as 5% damage on a projectile as fast as pikmin is insane.

upb 2 is less gimpable.

Downb3 is a situational edgeguard, I guess.

1321 should at least be added over 1312, because sideb3 and downb2 have no synergy.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So Alph has the following sets currently:

1211
1311
1131
1112
1313
2211

Alph was an extremely low activity character when the project's last release was made. With customs on at EVO and Olimar having put up such an impressive showing at APEX, I think it's important to really lock down some top quality sets for this character for the next update. Do any of you guys have any thoughts about how up to 10 slots should be filled out in context of the current metagame?

 

[Angbad]

So Alph has the following sets currently:

1211
1311
1131
1112
1313
2211

Alph was an extremely low activity character when the project's last release was made. With customs on at EVO and Olimar having put up such an impressive showing at APEX, I think it's important to really lock down some top quality sets for this character for the next update. Do any of you guys have any thoughts about how up to 10 slots should be filled out in context of the current metagame?

2213
1313

Those 2 are what I see being the strongest.

 

[Blue Banana]

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with actually fighting with customs yet, but I did spend some time messing around with some customs by myself, mostly Tackle Pikmin Throw, and thought about how they can work in theory.
Tackle Pikmin Throw is my favorite custom move out of Olimar's set.
- Against characters that can quickly kill of knock off Pikmin, having guaranteed damage the instant the Pikmin hits them works better than waiting for the Pikmin to build up potentially larger damage over a longer period of time.
- Because the Pikmin now act like actual projectiles and how unusual the Pikmin's properties are themselves, they can cancel out weak projectiles (Mario Bros. fireballs, Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, being able to knock back Dedede's Gordos with less risk) and still be able to hit the opponent. This is added on to the elemental immunities that reds, yellows, and blues naturally possess, so this adds up to making some characters' options in neutral at least less viable.
- I feel like yellows become more useful and not just limited to slightly extending hitboxes for Pikmin attacks. Due to how most of Olimar's ranged attacks are mostly horizontal in nature, having a projectile that arcs, somewhat covers the diagonal "blind spot," and lasts slightly longer in the air than his other side B colors can be beneficial to his projectile game. Due to how the electric property induces more hitlag and how weak the knockback is, getting hit by a yellow can even lead into a potential dash grab (though the timing is a bit strict), so it gives Olimar a way of creating aggressive pressure if he needs to do that.
- The potential damage of each color with Tackle Pikmin Throw may be much less than whites can do with both default and Sticky Pikmin Throw (40% and 38%, respectively), but whites need to do 11/19 ticks to deal that much damage, not regarding damage staling, time latched on decreasing as damage incurred increases, or just the white dying to a light hit. Purples do 8% off a fresh hit and scale down to 5%(?) while reds, yellows, and blues do 5% down to 3%(?), so they can achieve around the same amount of damage in roughly 8-10 hits and at most 13. Whites deal at most 3%, but they still hold a niche in nicking opponents at long range and having the longest grab range and solid 4% per pummel. The only question I can think of arguing against this is which side Bs is capable of dealing out damage the fastest.
Of course, this side B is less beneficial against characters with reflectors or Rosalina, whose down B will now suck up all side B'd Pikmin instead of just purples only, so default or Sticky may be better for these MUs.

I don't think the up B customs are useful. Winged Pikmin Jump makes the recovery very predictable and forces Olimar to go low and right under the edge, as it has no horizontal movement during the move; it feels like an inferior Super Duck Jump. Mighty Winged Pikmin might seem useful with Hardy Pikmin Pluck, but in all other cases Olimar will just usually throw Pikmin away to give him the extra mobility and speed.

Order Tackle seems to work potentially well with Tackle Pikmin Throw, since recalled Pikmin can hit the opponent 2 times: one when reacting to the whistle and the other when jumping in the air. With how scattered thrown Pikmin can be Order Tackle can essentially make wandering Pikmin mini-landmines, and it gives a way of harrassing the opponent outside of Pikmin Throw range. It can also be useful with the P3A glitch in specific situations.

Don't have an opinion on Sticky Pikmin Throw, Dizzy Whistle, or the neutral B customs. I'd say 1312 should be a default custom set since 1311 is already on there.

 

[Kody910]

Alright, I'll pitch in my thoughts.

I'm not too wild on either of the neutral specials. Hardy Pluck does have some value, as the beefier Pikmin can really help out with larger, slower hitters or against zoners, but the increased pluck time really shows problems when fighting fast characters. I feel like the longer pluck time could really be abused by quick hitters to keep Olimar from regrouping should he lose his squad. Not a bad move, but it is somewhat matchup specific. I'd save it against other zoning style characters.
Explosive Pluck is pretty situational. In any instance where I would need to get an opponent off of me ASAP, I would much prefer to just throw out an up tilt or a short hop neutral air. Having Pikmin that die with even LESS effort isn't very appealing either. I would probably pair it with Tackle Throw for an additional level of lockout potential, but not use it on its own otherwise.

As for side specials, Tackle Pikmin Throw is incredbile. A hard hitting projectile with range, speed, and unpredictability? Yes please. Easily one of his best custom specials. Overall damage output is reduced, but the ability to completely lockout opponents is a very powerful one and can completely change Olimar's style. A move that fits well in many matchups.
Sticky Pikmin Throw is... unimpressive. The total damage output of the Pikmin is reduced, but more importantly, the reduced range of his tosses really does hurt him. The move counteracts itself too much for its benefit to outweigh its detriments. I can't see this one being too helpful in the long run.

Both up specials are weak. Winged Pikmin Jump is far too predictable and forces Olimar into a single angle for recovery and removes his ability to fakeout a landing. Mighty Winged Pikmin sounds good on paper, but I've never had trouble with Olimar's weight system in his recovery. Tossing away just one Pikmin with the default will get you about the same distance as the Mighty variant, making it seem all but pointless.

Order Tackle is a neat little option. Tacking on extra damage from a latched Pikmin is always nice and the odd angle at which they return to Olimar gives him a sort of air control. Again, not something I would use against some of the faster, grounded characters, but it isn't a move I would overlook.
Dizzy Whistle is... cute? Can't find any viable use for it.

The six sets you've got running now are pretty much solid, but I would toss in a 1212, 2131, and 3311 for safe measure.

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
2112 2312 1112 1312 2111 2311 1311 2212 1212 3312

The essential sets were quite easy to make for Olimar, as he had a nice amount of customs to pull from.

After that, I made three niche sets; two that take advantage of the Sticky Pikmin Throw and Order Tackle combination for some serious lockdown ability, and one with Explosive Pluck and Tackle Throw as an alternative way to play keepaway with the opponent.

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Olimar:
1/2, 1/3, 1, 1/2 and niche sets
2112 2312 1112 1312 2111 2311 1311
Niche: 2212 1212 3312

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I've been playing a lot with Olimar's customs, and I even was able to try builds out at my Customs-On tournament. Although the experimentation may have cost me from not placing higher than Top 8 (which was still good tbh), I think I have a good feel for what works and what doesn't work. I'll give my thoughts on the customs themselves and then post my list of sets that should be in. Here we go:

---​

Pikmin Pluck* - These will fit some niche builds, but are not the basis of our custom sets, imo.

*Just found out - These customs REDUCE Olimar's grab range!​

Hardy Pikmin Pluck:

An interesting choice for a slot. I think it synergizes poorly with Tackle Pikmin Throw, and I would hardly consider running it with that except in a few matchups; honestly, even with default Side-B I wouldn't consider running it due to it's downside. The big draw of the upgrade is how well it synergizes with Sticky Pikmin Throw. It is downright scary how hard it is to kill the Pikmin/how long they stay on. I would recommend two builds with Hardy Pikmin Pluck - Both take advantage of Sticky Pikmin Throw, but one would run Mighty Winged Pikmin just due to how valuable the Pikmin are to the build.
​

Explosive Pluck:

Super niche. You make your Pikmin very frail, due to their lack of HP, just to gain a situational kill move. I'm not convinced it's worth using over just hitting an Fsmash in the similar situations. That said however, it does cover certain areas that Fsmash doesn't reach. You can hit solidly below edges with Explosive Pluck, and even catch tall/jumping characters below you when you're on a platform. Don't forget you can B-Reverse this. The kill power of a Purple Pluck on the edge is very rewarding! I would run one build with this, and it would likely be paired with Tackle Pikmin Throw.
​

Pikmin Throw - The Side-B customs are very good, and will be what we focus the majority of our sets.

Sticky Pikmin Throw:

The damage output from this is really reliable once you get 1-2 Pikmin on the opponent. It's a solid upgrade, and I'm not convinced the drawback is even that bad - in some ways it works ever better at midrange, and the drawback has the added benefit of working well with Order Tackle. Some characters have a lot of issue knocking Pikmin off of them, and this deserves several builds keyed to those matchups. Sticky Pikmin Throw synergizes with Order Tackle and Hardy Pikmin Pluck very well, so a couple of builds should feature combinations of those.
​

Tackle Pikmin Throw:

Jeez, this custom move turns Pikmin Throw into an amazing harassment projectile. This allows Olimar to outcamp several characters to an absurd degree, and really emphasizes his ability to zone. While not particularly useful against character's with reflectors (and Rosalina's Gravitational Pull... ew), this custom opens up a lot of avenues for great edgeguarding and allows Olimar to interrupt the enemies game plan. It doesn't have the best synergy with other custom moves, but this is one of the key custom moves to feature in Olimar's sets - some characters just don't have an answer.
​

Winged Pikmin - Honestly, there's not much you get out of these custom moves.

Winged Pikmin Jump:

I don't see any real use for this Custom Move. It turns our recovery into something very linear and strips it of it's versatility; we aren't able to go under stages, we can't cancel it into aerial attacks, and we can't move in unpredictable ways. Yeah, it has a windbox, but it's just so weak/ineffectual. The fact that it only sweet-spots the ledge at particular ranges seals the deal for me. Unless this has secret invincibility, none of our builds should feature this.
​

Mighty Winged Pikmin:

Okay, so this isn't as bad as Winged Pikmin Jump. You trade off the sheer distance that you can get out of the default Up-B to be able to keep your batch of Pikmin. It also feels more clunky to attack out of this Up-B, but that might just be me. There's not much to say about this Up-B - It's not as good as the default, but it's not bad either. It would be worth running on a single build that features Hardy Pikmin Pluck, as the value of keeping your Pikmin alive offstage rises with that custom.
​

Pikmin Order - One of these custom moves is worth running, and the other is trash.

Order Tackle:

This trades a bit of the speed of default Down-B, as well as the super armor, for a new projectile/hitbox to play around with. This has a lot of depth and versatility that needs to be explored more, but I am found great success with the move. I've been able to gimp Wario's off their bike offstage and been able to true-combo Yellow Order Tackles into Upsmash. This combos well with all of our Side-B moves - Default since the hitbox hits well while the Pikmin are latched on, same for Sticky Pikmin Throw but with the added synergy of being able to recall sooner due to decreased range, and Tackle Pikmin Throw by having a barrage of hitboxes after another. The Order Tackle/Reflector glitch is another reason to have competitive sets with this move. Note that Rosalina's Gravitational Pull eats Pikmin being recalled with this move. Half of our sets should feature this, and the other should have default Pikmin Order.
​

Dizzy Whistle:

I can't find a single competitive use for this Custom Move. If you manage to miss the first hitbox and hit with only the second (by falling/drifting into the opponent's range), you can MAYBE turn them around without resetting their recovery move or knock them out of freefall. Failing that, you essentially just trade your whistle's armor for a hitbox that pulls people into yourself that you cannot combo out of. It's laughably bad. You can pull Kirby's stone off the stage, though.... Yeah, no sets should have this unless someone breaks this in a good way.​

---​

Alright, so there's my reasoning for what Custom Moves should be considered on Olimar. That being said, here are what I consider to be THE sets that need to be included.

Custom Sets for Olimar/Alph:

• 1311
• 1312
• 1212
• 2212
• 1112
• 1211
• 2232
• 3311
• 2312
• 2131

The first 6 are what I consider the mandatory sets, and the remaining four are more niche builds for certain matchups/playstyles/stages. There are four sets utilizing Tackle Pikmin Throw, four sets utilizing Sticky Pikmin Throw, and two sets utilizing default Side-B: a good balance, imo, especially including fully default being an option (1111). Most of the sets should have Order Tackle, but I see value in some of the sets having default Down-B available. One set for Explosive Pluck is generous, and Dizzy Whistle/Winged Pikmin Jump should waste no slots. Hardy Pikmin Pluck is very matchup specific, but it's valuable.

Whew. That was a lot of text, but I hope this helps the project. I spent a lot of time experimenting, so I'm willing to explain in more detail my decisions.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

1,1/2,1,2
2,1/2,1,2 be careful when plucking against speedsters
To me that really is all Olimar has I see no value in any other ^B vB adds extra damage those few frames of SA that order has is to me not even worth mentioning. Dizzy Whistle could have seen uses for gimping recoveries like CFalc but it damages opponents so instead you can end up helping them. I personally don't like Tackle Pikmin but it does help with stopping approaches although >B does the same anyway as people may dodge ,shield, jump or attack anyway to try and kill them but they aren't super bad so 1,3,1,1 throw can push the opponent away so tackle order won't hit I don't think if you use tackle throw you should use tackle order.
3,2,1,2 maybe just for fast characters seeing as how they have the ability to kill your Pikmin quick anyway and resume their focus on you if you go for a pluck you can hurt them. To me its gimmicky and not guaranteed but maybe some prefer it. I love Olimar I just can't say I'm happy with how they did his customs. Honestly default is probably going to get you as far as customs would.