Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Plunder]

Yea there's even 6 more charts for the MUs on each legal stage which I thought was really cool. It's outdated but it's neat info.

 

[CptJPuff]

Does Netplay require each of the players to have the exact same texture for an object?

Spoiler

Let's say I have Pokemon Stadium A, displayed here:

Spoiler

And the other guy I'm netplaying has Pokemon Stadium B:

Spoiler

Would we still be able to play against each other, without any issues due to the textures?

 

[Spak]

Does Netplay require each of the players to have the exact same texture for an object?

Spoiler

Let's say I have Pokemon Stadium A, displayed here:

Spoiler

And the other guy I'm netplaying has Pokemon Stadium B:

Spoiler

Would we still be able to play against each other, without any issues due to the textures?

There shouldn't be any problems if it's programmed like a standard game would be... As long as the file names are correct (the same as the original file name so that it would be found in LoadContent (or the GC's equivalent name for the loading method)'s code), I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[Taytertot]

There is this one from ~2009

how accurate is this to the current meta? i know that the tier rankings arent in this order now.

 

[Bones0]

Tier lists and matchup ratios are entirely subjective. Even worse, people usually don't even agree on the same definitions of what these terms mean and what criteria matters when giving their opinion on these subjects. Then, of course, there's plain old human bias. The only factual thing you can say about matchups and tiers is that people have been adamant about their opinions only to turn around and be adamant about the opposite in a relatively short time period (and I don't believe myself to somehow be above this generalization). Nothing is written in stone.

 

[Plunder]

Tier lists and matchup ratios are entirely subjective. Even worse, people usually don't even agree on the same definitions of what these terms mean and what criteria matters when giving their opinion on these subjects. Then, of course, there's plain old human bias. The only factual thing you can say about matchups and tiers is that people have been adamant about their opinions only to turn around and be adamant about the opposite in a relatively short time period (and I don't believe myself to somehow be above this generalization). Nothing is written in stone.

Yep pretty much this.

I'll add a few things from my personal experience watching and playing over the past few years.

There are certain MUs where it's obviously favored to one side like Peach vs ICs....pretty much EVERYONE agrees that ICs lose that one hard to the point where it's almost objective. This can usually be deduced by analyzing the rock-paper-scissors of each character, then proof by overwhelming evidence and matches.

Also, different players can be just terrible at MUs that are in their favor tremendously or they might just never care to learn the MU. So when others try and justify MUs by referencing high level player matches often nothing conclusive can come from it. Examples - Westballz is bad at the ICs MU, Hugs also seems to be bad at the MU even though it's in Samus's favor (see Plup or Duck able to beat the same players same ICs easily.) Mango absolutely destroys ICs usually, but then at EVO he was not playing well at all and almost let Chu take a game off him. The Moon is another player that has some odd MU history, he excels against top tiers, but he seems to lose to low and mid tiers that other top Marth's have no trouble with

 

[Baby_Sneak]

why did people boo hbox for playing smart at evo?

 

[Spak]

why did people boo hbox for playing smart at evo?

Because people are stupid.

 

[Miryafa]

I see pros just run up to the edge and all of a sudden they're holding the ledge - how do I do that?

 

[Kadano]

I see pros just run up to the edge and all of a sudden they're holding the ledge - how do I do that?

Like this maybe?

Unless they play Fox or Falco, these can quickly do a shine hog (running shine → shine turn → jump → slide off to ledge).

 

[Plunder]

Like this maybe?

Unless they play Fox or Falco, these can quickly do a shine hog (running shine → shine turn → jump → slide off to ledge).

This is just a Wavedash - pivot - wavedash - FF right?

 

[Miryafa]

Like this maybe?

Unless they play Fox or Falco, these can quickly do a shine hog (running shine → shine turn → jump → slide off to ledge).

Yes, like that. It might just be that my eyes weren't quick enough to catch it - now that I'm looking for examples, I keep seeing pivot-wavedashes.

But that was what? Dash-crouch-wavedash-pivot-wavedash?

 

[Kadano]

This is just a Wavedash - pivot - wavedash - FF right?

No pivot, just a normal smash turn. But otherwise yes.

 

[Miryafa]

No pivot, just a normal smash turn. But otherwise yes.

So what is smash turn (and how is it different from a pivot)? When you tap left the frame you stand up after wavedashing right?

On a similar note, how do you wavedash-ledgegrab when you're standing on the edge? I always air-dodge off the stage and die.

 

[Taytertot]

So what is smash turn (and how is it different from a pivot)? When you tap left the frame you stand up after wavedashing right?

On a similar note, how do you wavedash-ledgegrab when you're standing on the edge? I always air-dodge off the stage and die.

to wavedash ledgegrab you need to make sure that your wavedash hits the edge of the stage before you get offstage otherwise you will airdodge offstage and die so make sure that the angle at which you wavedash is definitely catching the stage first. you could try to wavedash from farther away first and practice doing closer and closer wavedashes to the ledge.

 

[Shadoninja]

Wavedashing on platforms:

Sometimes I slide right off. Other times I completely stop when I reach the edge of the platform. What decides which of these will happen?

 

[Shadoninja]

If you try to meteor cancel during the first 8 frames, do you just die?

I spam up-b sometimes during a meteor smash and my character never actually does their up-b. Is this because I pushed it too soon and "missed" the meteor cancel? I fully accept that I may just be terrible.

 

[Dolla Pills]

What happens when you wave dash on platforms has to do with the angle (closer to horizontal means more distance) and where you are on the platform (should be obvious) and maybe your horizontal speed too but I'm not sure about that one. You can waveland onto a platform in a direction exactly parallel to the platform (perfectly right or left on the stick) but it becomes harder to do the closer to the right or left you angle your control stick.

You cannot meteor cancel as soon as you get hit, the game will eat your input and then you won't be able to meteor cancel with up b for another 20 frames I think (maybe forty). I want to say the window for not being able to meteor cancel is 17 frames after you enter hitlag, but I'm not 100% sure and you can either look this up in more detail or someone can correct me. But either way this should give you a general sense of what you are asking for.

 

[Xyzz]

If your back is turned to the edge of the platform you will slide off no matter what.
If you're facing the edge, it depends on whether you are holding forward (if you do, you will slide off. If you don't, you'll stop at the edge)

 

[Pauer]

You cannot meteor cancel as soon as you get hit, the game will eat your input and then you won't be able to meteor cancel with up b for another 20 frames I think (maybe forty). I want to say the window for not being able to meteor cancel is 17 frames after you enter hitlag, but I'm not 100% sure and you can either look this up in more detail or someone can correct me. But either way this should give you a general sense of what you are asking for.

Hush, don't speak. Light a candle and let Kadano do the talking for you:
https://youtu.be/iJG-tvT86WU

 

[Shadoninja]

You cannot meteor cancel as soon as you get hit, the game will eat your input and then you won't be able to meteor cancel with up b for another 20 frames I think (maybe forty).

Ah, this is the answer I was expecting. This makes sense. I will start delaying my jump/up-b and see where the timing is.

If your back is turned to the edge of the platform you will slide off no matter what.
If you're facing the edge, it depends on whether you are holding forward (if you do, you will slide off. If you don't, you'll stop at the edge)

Awesome! Thank you very much for the info.

 

[Kyu Puff]

If someone crouch cancels the first hit of a multihit move, and the second hit connects while they're still in hitstun, is the new hitstun calculated normally, or as if they were still crouch cancelling?

Also, if someone is in hitstun in the air, and then lands on the ground without going into tumble, does the rest of their hitstun cancel? (just double checking)

 

[Taytertot]

If someone crouch cancels the first hit of a multihit move, and the second hit connects while they're still in hitstun, is the new hitstun calculated normally, or as if they were still crouch cancelling?

Im fairly certain that the hitstun of the first hit of a multihit move keeps you from being able to CC the next hit though you can SDI down i believe, which could give you a similar effect in some cases.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Im fairly certain that the hitstun of the first hit of a multihit move keeps you from being able to CC the next hit though you can SDI down i believe, which could give you a similar effect in some cases.

Thanks, after a bit of testing this seems to be the case. If they come out of stun at any time, they can start CCing again (seems to happen frequently when they're knocked into the air slightly but land immediately).

 

[tauKhan]

If someone crouch cancels the first hit of a multihit move, and the second hit connects while they're still in hitstun, is the new hitstun calculated normally, or as if they were still crouch cancelling?

Also, if someone is in hitstun in the air, and then lands on the ground without going into tumble, does the rest of their hitstun cancel? (just double checking)

Second question first because it's easier and somewhat related. There's 3 cases: If the kb is very small, the victim transitions into grounded hitstun. This happens often when falco does shine -> dair combo, since the leftover kb from shine eats so much of the kb from dair. From my tests with foxes jab, it seems that the threshold is very bizarre, 18,36 or something.

Other case is tumble, which normally happens when the kb >80. There are some moves with smaller kb that cause tumble though. In this case knockdown happens.

If the kb is between these, the victim impact lands which replaces the hitstun completely. This is what essentially makes crouch cancelling work: You try to asdi down to impact land a move. Crouching before the hit makes you not get knocked down at higher%. If the move is a spike, you don't get sent into air, and therefore you can't asdi impact land.


The first question is hard and depends on a lot of factors, mostly because 'crouch cancelling' isn't actually a single well defined mechanic, but actually combination of several. I don't try to go over every possibility, I'll just give you the general rules so that you can hopefully figure any individual case yourself.

So before each hit: if the victim is in the initial crouch or crouch wait animation, the kb and hitstun is reduced by 2/3. If a consecutive hitbox hits at a time where the victim isn't crouching, for example if it caches the landing animation or combos, the reduction doesn't happen, it's strictly tied to the crouching animation.

For example most of the cast can crouch both hits of foxes uair, even though the 2nd hitbox comes out very rapidly after the first. However characters with longer landing animations, such as ganondorf, cannot crouch the 2nd hit after the 1st, because their landing animation doesn't finish in time. Multihit spikes usually combo because they cannot be asdi landed, and so they cannot be crouched through.

The victim can always ASDI down after each hit, so if the last hit of the multihit move doesn't spike, and isn't strong enough (or very weak) it can be asdi 'crouch cancelled' even if the victim is unable to crouch through the move.

 

[Jeppery]

I've got a few questions about platforms. I find it hard to drop quickly through platforms from standing position, and I'm not sure how to quickly. I've seen things around different methods, like shield dropping, but for some reason it takes so long for me to drop through when I'm playing.

Am I just holding down for a long time or not enough, or am I just missing something?

 

[Dolla Pills]

I've got a few questions about platforms. I find it hard to drop quickly through platforms from standing position, and I'm not sure how to quickly. I've seen things around different methods, like shield dropping, but for some reason it takes so long for me to drop through when I'm playing.

Am I just holding down for a long time or not enough, or am I just missing something?

If you're literally just standing on a platform then just tap down on the control stick and you should fall through (make sure you tap hard enough).

If you just landed from being in the air try dashing forward and then immediately tapping down to drop through, the dash will cancel your landing animation and allow you to drop through quickly (this is called an Isai Drop, look it up for more info). You can also look up Shai dropping and shield dropping which are more technical ways of getting off a platform.

Edit:
Also if you try to hold down while in the lag of something you won't fall through even when the lag ends, so make sure you time your inputs properly.

 

[Bones0]

You cannot drop through a plat after dashing. You have to walk. This video makes the same mistake, but does a good job of showcasing the different ways to drop through. The main ones you want to focus on as a beginner are Isai drop (walk forward after landing) and waveland drop (airdodge down into the plat, regular drop through).

 

[scrandi]

Hey guys! My girlfriend really wants to get into competitive Smash Bros and I'm planning on teaching her all I can. I'm no professional, so I wanted to find some videos teaching basics and advanced techniques to give her a visual guide from someone a little more competent than I am lol. She's super into Kirby but she also wants to get into Peach, so if there are any character specific guides for those two that'd be awesome (:

 

[Dolla Pills]

Hey guys! My girlfriend really wants to get into competitive Smash Bros and I'm planning on teaching her all I can. I'm no professional, so I wanted to find some videos teaching basics and advanced techniques to give her a visual guide from someone a little more competent than I am lol. She's super into Kirby but she also wants to get into Peach, so if there are any character specific guides for those two that'd be awesome (:

Check out this thread first:
http://smashboards.com/threads/useful-links-for-new-players.410678/

As for specific character guides, you can check the character boards to see what's there. I don't know what's available on the Kirby and Pichu boards since they are not used much and they aren't very good characters, but you can try.

 

[Taytertot]

peach is quite good though so thatd be a pretty good pick for a main

 

[Freakanoid]

Often times you hear "Luigi is in hitstun the least" or "Roy is in hitstun the most." Is there some sort of chart that lists all the characters from most to least hitstun? I know there's some sort of algorithm used to calculate hitstun and that it relies heavily on weight, but honestly that's over my head to calculate it for all characters. I've checked various wikis and SmashBoards for some sort of list, and I haven't been able to find anything.

 

[Spak]

Often times you hear "Luigi is in hitstun the least" or "Roy is in hitstun the most." Is there some sort of chart that lists all the characters from most to least hitstun? I know there's some sort of algorithm used to calculate hitstun and that it relies heavily on weight, but honestly that's over my head to calculate it for all characters. I've checked various wikis and SmashBoards for some sort of list, and I haven't been able to find anything.

Hitstun is determined by the move you get hit by. For instance, Roy's hitstun on his moves are pretty bad in general (which, combined with his knockback, is why he can't combo well), while someone like Falcon gives significant hitstun with most of his moves.

 

[Plunder]

Often times you hear "Luigi is in hitstun the least" or "Roy is in hitstun the most." Is there some sort of chart that lists all the characters from most to least hitstun? I know there's some sort of algorithm used to calculate hitstun and that it relies heavily on weight, but honestly that's over my head to calculate it for all characters. I've checked various wikis and SmashBoards for some sort of list, and I haven't been able to find anything.

You must not have looked that hard, it's pretty straight forward and it's in the Wiki and in the knockback/hitstun tool thread.

0.4 * Knockback of the move = Hitstun

Knockback of any move is influenced by the weight of character, so therefore hitstun is also. More weight = less hitstun. So just look at the weight list.

The less fall speed a character has + the more weight they have the harder they are to combo. Samus probably has the most optimal ratio.

 

[Freakanoid]

You must not have looked that hard, it's pretty straight forward and it's in the Wiki and in the knockback/hitstun tool thread.

0.4 * Knockback of the move = Hitstun

Knockback of any move is influenced by the weight of character, so therefore hitstun is also. More weight = less hitstun. So just look at the weight list.

The less fall speed a character has + the more weight they have the harder they are to combo. Samus probably has the most optimal ratio.

More weight = less hitstun? Why do people say Luigi is in hitstun the least, then? Wouldn't that be Bowser?

Thanks for mentioning the tool though, just found the thread, should help a lot.

EDIT: And sorry Spak, I was talking about being in hitstun based on certain characters, not how much moves do, ha.

 

[Plunder]

More weight = less hitstun? Why do people say Luigi is in hitstun the least, then? Wouldn't that be Bowser?

Thanks for mentioning the tool though, just found the thread, should help a lot.

EDIT: And sorry Spak, I was talking about being in hitstun based on certain characters, not how much moves do, ha.

I don't know who is telling you these things, perhaps you should consider they have no clue what they are talking about.

Bowser is easier to combo since he's huge and has a faster fall speed than Luigi. But he still experiences less hitstun than Luigi, it's just not enough to stop him from getting tossed around like a sandbag. Luigi flies much further away from follow up range, and he has MUCH faster options to break combos in the air.

 

[Freakanoid]

I don't know who is telling you these things, perhaps you should consider they have no clue what they are talking about.

Bowser is easier to combo since he's huge and has a faster fall speed than Luigi. But he still experiences less hitstun than Luigi, it's jut not enough to stop him from getting tossed around like a sandbag. Luigi flys much further away from follow up range, and he has MUCH faster options to break combos in the air.

Well, the people "telling me these things" have been commentators on various tournament streams, both big and small. I suppose it must have been a misnomer by the commentators to say "less hitstun." Regardless, thanks for your time, cleared some stuff up.

 

[Bones0]

Well, the people "telling me these things" have been commentators on various tournament streams, both big and small. I suppose it must have been a misnomer by the commentators to say "less hitstun." Regardless, thanks for your time, cleared some stuff up.

Most Melee commentators know next to nothing about game mechanics or even competition in general. It's sad, but commentary has basically become a social media competition where popular people with very scripted/rehearsed dialogue are given commentary privileges. You can never trust anything they say unless it's actually a top player.

As far as the hitstun thing goes, it can often feel like Luigi has less hitstun because he is average weight and extremely floaty. Floatiness/gravity is a separate trait from weight, and floatier characters are essentially harder to combo, not because they have less hitstun, but because they don't fall back down towards you as quickly as someone like Falcon (who is both heavy and has high gravity).

 

[tauKhan]

@ Freakanoid As mentioned here already, hitstun is calculated linearly from the amount of kb. This means that if different chars get hit equally hard, i.e. their launch velocities match, they get equal amount of hitstun. Whether or not you can combo with a particular move depends on how fast you can reach your opponent after the hit, and the amount of hitstun received.

Fall speed and acceleration is what makes a real difference, since you can often reach opponents who fall faster a lot quicker than floatier chars. Fast fallers lose their vertical speed faster when they get hit, so when for example luigi and fox get sent upwards at the same initial velocity, it seems like fox had less speed at the start. This is where the "luigi receives less hitstun" notion probably stems from.

More weight means less kb at the same percent (for many moves, not all though), so combos start work at higher percentage range vs heavier opponents. However the kb is also less at high%, so the combos will work at higher% on heavier opponents. Weight doesn't really affect comboabilty (except for throws), it just alters the percentage ranges at which particular combos work.

Throws are special because the victim always get knocked away as if his weight was 100, so weight doesn't affect throw kb. However many throw animations are slower if the victim is heavier, so it's harder to combo heavy chars with such throws.

 

[Freakanoid]

@ Bones0 @ T tauKhan
That definitely makes much more sense now that I understand how hitstun works. I'm a little upset commentators spread false info like that, as this isn't the first time I've found out something they've said was wrong. My fault for believing it I guess.

Thanks for the clarification guys.