Important "Obedience School" - Duck Hunt Q&A Thread/FAQ/Directory

[Spirst]

This will be the central hub for asking questions pertaining to Duck Hunt in Smash 4. All questions about the character are welcome here and anyone who feels they know it is free to answer. As questions become more frequent, I will take a list of the most commonly asked questions to assemble a FAQ.

• What are Duck Hunt's custom moves?

Here's a video of Duck Hunt's custom moves. I will work on adding a write-up very soon detailing the exact changes of each.

• General Social Thread

This is the place for talking about whatever. Feel free to knock yourself out provided it's not too out of line.

• Moveset/AT/Competitive Discussion

The central hub for competitive discussion of Duck Hunt. Discuss findings, theorycrafting, and other elements of the metagame.

• Player Finder

You can find your fellow doggy players right here and get some dogfights matches going.

• Video Thread

Show off all your Duck Hunt videos here for critiques and ego-boosts.

• Projectile Thread

This is an extensive list of Duck Hunt's projectiles in relation to other characters that details which can be canceled out and so forth.

• Matchup & Stage Discussion

Discuss how Duck Hunt deals with certain characters here. If you're having trouble against a certain character, feel free to add it to the discussion. In addition, this is also the stage discussion. For example, discussion may be what good CPs to use against certain characters.

• Duck Hunt Player Guide

A guide if you're looking to get an overview of the character. Will be updated gradually as time progresses.

 

[Diamond DHD]

There's also a combo thread, but due to the nature of the Duck Hunt Duo, it's pretty much barren: http://smashboards.com/threads/duck-hunt-combos.376457/

 

[Spirst]

There's also a combo thread, but due to the nature of the Duck Hunt Duo, it's pretty much barren: http://smashboards.com/threads/duck-hunt-combos.376457/

Added it for now. I'll probably do something with that topic in the future once I learn more and compile a list of what I know at that point. I added a reply to make it relevant so we'll see how it goes.

 

[Spirst]

Excuse the double post but @ P proxibomb and @ WispBae , I've added both the MU/Stage discussion & the player guide to the OP.

 

[proxibomb]

Excuse the double post but @ P proxibomb and @ WispBae , I've added both the MU/Stage discussion & the player guide to the OP.

Oh, sweet! Thanks for the showcase on the directory!

 

[WispBae]

Oh, sweet! Thanks for the showcase on the directory!

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

hey guys my old main isn't working out so I'm gonna transition to DH. I like his pressure and traps he can set. I have a few questions. What are his best ground attacks and pokes? Also once the opponent is air born what's my moves in the air. What's also the best way to approach on a short hop?

 

[Spirst]

Spaced fair is really good since it's disjointed and has surprising range with the ending lag not being too bad. The bair autocancels which is helpful. SH clay pigeons are good for general pokes and SH gunmen are great in approaches by forcing a jump, a roll, or a shield. The awkward timing of the shots tends to throw people off. I believe ftilt and dtilt can shield poke.

A good setup is to kick a can, lay down a gunman, and then SH toss a clay pigeon. The gunmen, unless it's the black clothed one, will shoot the can forward. The shot will pierce through and hit someone who didn't react, the can in the air from the shot will hit them if they didn't move or if the tried to jump forward and the clay pigeon will stuff their own shorthop.

The best thing to do is to know each attack you have interacts with the can and when to use each. I'll update the projectile thread to include this later on.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Is the gunman random one which one comes out?

I've also heard his smash attacks are useless. And I shlukd always use his tilts for kills.

 

[Spirst]

Gunmen cycle in 5s. Each gunman initially has a 1/5 chance of coming out and don't repeat until they're all cycled through. For example, if you do 4/5 gunmen and don't get the sombrero one, the last one is a guaranteed sombrero.

Smashes aren't useless but they are unreliable. Because there aren't great overlapping hit boxes, the other person can be pushed out of the smash by the second reticle before the third one connects unless it's spaced correctly. This really needs to get fixed soon since it's just dumb.

 

[Zzuxon]

I've also heard his smash attacks are useless. And I shlukd always use his tilts for kills.

Not true. Also, only utilt even resembles a kill move. What SPirst said is true though.
Nair is a decent kill move, as is uair.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

I see this character having infinite potential because of the setups and he can zone and rushdown. I def seem him becoming high tier or even top as the mets game developes.

 

[DunnoBro]

A bit unreliable, not useless at all though. Even with the chance they'll fail, it's better to go for them than tilts. Though do get used to killing with uptilt, kills fairly early and upsmash is imo the least reliable.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

how does DH do against characters like sheik, rosalina, and diddy kong. is he able to go even with agaisnt the upper tier characters? thoughts?

 

[DunnoBro]

I think at worst they're 40/60. I don't think diddy is a bad mu though.

Sheik rushes down so hard it's difficult to pressure with projectiles. Clay shot also misses her if she's dashing from some distances, so it isn't too reliable anti-rushdown. She also has really little landing lag which duck hunt relies a lot on so that's an issue too.

Rosalina isn't as bad imo. You can't pressure her with projectiles but at least you can bait out gpull and punish, you just need to play a bait/punish game which she is naturally weak against. The frisbee is your main pressure tool, and the can is strictly stage/air control, don't use it to pressure unless you're ready to punish a gpull.

Diddy I have little experience with, aside from general diddy dumbness why would it be a bad mu?

 

[Vengeance_NS]

ok so clay pidgeon is pressure and can is air control, what is gunman. ive seen a lot of gunman set ups for camping and or call gun man run in grab opponent in shield or go for mixup. im coming from wario who to me right now reallys truggles against most the higher tiered characters. does duckhunt generally do bad against pure rushdown or is it sheik specific? does sonic give him troubles?

i am willing to invest a long tim einto a character, played wario over 2 years in brawl but i dont want to invest in a character with a ton of bad MUs.

 

[DunnoBro]

Well I was speaking in those specific matchups. The projectiles serve different roles in different matchups.

In the rosalina matchup gunmen punish/pressure for when they sit and think gpull will save them from everything. But it doesn't help much in the sheik matchup except maybe when landing and they're at needle distance. Also general edgeguard/anti edgeguarding and covering the holes other projectiles leave open.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

How do you feel about him long term. Will he keep up with the mets game?

 

[DunnoBro]

How do you feel about him long term. Will he keep up with the mets game?

I feel like he's a very technical character who has a lot of untapped potential. I know that I personally still feel awkward with him at times and I've been playing him since the japanese 3ds release. (though for the last 2 weeks I've been drastically changing my gcn control scheme :/)

I feel like once we go to lab on the edgeguard game, DH will be godlike. He covers just so much for free but there's all these little modifications you gotta make for each char. Timing, trajectory, combinations, and overall mix-ups.

 

[Spirst]

Yep, I feel the edgeguard game is definitely something to look into. I can see bair'd cans (which pop backwards) being useful offstage for stage spikes/getting people from the ledge. Also, following the can offstage with a nair/dair if you read their reaction to the can net a KO. Simply standing idle and letting the can do all the work offstage is incredibly limited and pretty easy to avoid for the other player. I also think we need to work on landing overall when hit offstage.

 

[proxibomb]

Use nairs as a finisher move, practice moving around and attacking while also moving your can out and about, and practice the dair sweet spot meteor. DH's grabs a great for finishing combos since you could f-throw into a dair. DH does really well against heavy characters (Ike), and especially even better with large characters (King Dedede, Bowser, Donkey Kong). Diddy Kong will absolutely destroy you though, since it's really hard for DH to keep up with Diddy's speed.

Then again, who could keep up with Diddy in Smash 4...

 

[Funkermonster]

Best things to do Out of Shield? I find myself doing nothing other than shieldgrabbing for the majority of the time, and I'm trying to add a little more variety to my game now.

Spirst once told me OoS Nair is a good kill move I should make more use of, but I've had little to no success with that. Most of the time I have difficulty landing it and even when I do, I sourspot it and don't get the kill power. How do you land OoS Nair properly?

 

[Spirst]

Oos nair can be hard to land on characters with smaller hurtboxes and additionally, has to be done with the jump input (so you rise with it as soon as you leave the ground) since the sweetspot window is frames 6-9 with frames 10-38 being a sourspot. I use Y to jump and A for attacks so I hit Y with the center of the top phalange and then immediately hit A with the lower part as if my thumb is doing a wave motion. Shield drop> frame 4 jab isn't bad and with moves that push you back, something like a perfect pivot dsmash seems like it would work nicely although the inputs can be tricky to get the hang of. I also wonder how shield drop>dtilt would be considering dtilt is the second fastest physical move on the ground (frame 6). Dsmash is frame 7 but puts you in a lot more risk if it whiffs.

Shieldgrabs aren't bad though. Shieldgrab and two pummels>fthrow>fair gets you 24% and RAR bair gets you 26%. You can also do shieldgrab>pummel x 2 >smash clay pigeon>fair for a hefty 36%. The clay pigeon one isn't a true combo unlike the fair/RAR bair but if they don't react in time, the clay pigeon is guaranteed to follow into a fair/bair for 38% at max. Numerically, shieldgrabs aren't a bad option with the stuff we can do from it.

 

[Fangblade]

What are Duck Hunts best and worst stages in singles?

 

[Spirst]

What are Duck Hunts best and worst stages in singles?

Late reply but I'd say his best stage is probably Lylat considering the stage control you can have is pretty nuts. Cans on the low platforms and DH on the stage level is really strong and can cover a lot of options. It not being a walled omega, while hurting DH's ability to wall jump recover, means that you're not going to follow a predictable path (unless you use Super Duck Jump) and can hide a little under the ship before sweetspotting the ledge. Something indirect, which I like, is that people seem to mess up their recoveries a lot seeing as how the ship tilts but DH, having control over his default recovery rather than a set trajectory, has more room for initial error.

As for his worst stage, I'd say it's either his own DH stage or Castle Siege. DH has walls which make our recovery more predictable, odd platforms unsuitable for real stage control, the dog can mess up Can strategies (or enhance it I guess), and the ducks interact with our projectiles the way a normal hurtbox would (meaning, not good). Castle Siege is just bad for us overall with the first transformation being oddly shaped and unfavorable for pigeons, the second transformation having statues that actually sponge our projectiles, and the third transformation just being pretty generic and not offering any sort of real stage control.

 

[Cancel]

One question, is the dog hard to use?

 

[Diamond DHD]

One question, is the dog hard to use?

At a scrub level, no, spam and you'll win. If you actually want to play him properly then he is extremely difficult to use due to the micromanagement and multi-tasking needed, also combos aren't easy to pull off as they need foresight in to where you opponent is going to be so you can use Trick Shot can spacing, as well as when you should put down a gunman.

 

[Cancel]

At a scrub level, no, spam and you'll win. If you actually want to play him properly then he is extremely difficult to use due to the micromanagement and multi-tasking needed, also combos aren't easy to pull off as they need foresight in to where you opponent is going to be so you can use Trick Shot can spacing, as well as when you should put down a gunman.[/qu
Yeah i want to actually be good with him, besides all the spacing and stuff i want to learn this character and make him one of my characters. Where can i go to learn him are there any videos that teach things

 

[Diamond DHD]

Yeah i want to actually be good with him, besides all the spacing and stuff i want to learn this character and make him one of my characters. Where can i go to learn him are there any videos that teach things

First off, check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHtMjMSVD-g
It covers the basics really well, there's a video of Jtails playing For Glory with Duck Hunt as well.

Next, just play around with the character itself to get a feel for them, then I'd recommend reading through this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-duck-hunt-dog-players-guide-ko-percents-added.371263/

If you've done that, practice the character, read through the rest of the threads in the directory and just try new stuff out. Duck Hunt is very much an underused character at the moment, so there's no "best" playstyle yet, so just browse how other people do it and see how you can implement that in to your own gameplay.

 

[Cancel]

First off, check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHtMjMSVD-g
It covers the basics really well, there's a video of Jtails playing For Glory with Duck Hunt as well.

Next, just play around with the character itself to get a feel for them, then I'd recommend reading through this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-duck-hunt-dog-players-guide-ko-percents-added.371263/

If you've done that, practice the character, read through the rest of the threads in the directory and just try new stuff out. Duck Hunt is very much an underused character at the moment, so there's no "best" playstyle yet, so just browse how other people do it and see how you can implement that in to your own gameplay.

Thanks will do after i get out of work that is, and if i have some more questions i can always ask. True that hardly people use this character thats why i plan to play him.

 

[WispBae]

Thanks will do after i get out of work that is, and if i have some more questions i can always ask. True that hardly people use this character thats why i plan to play him.

Doggy is a ton of button pressing for a average speed character, so taking things slowly will help. All the projectiles have their utilities, as well as different properties for each one. You'll want to learn each projectile one at a time.

I've been contemplating starting a group doggy guide though, I do feel he is lower to mid top-tier. Just requires a ton of practice.

 

[Arcadenik]

At a scrub level, no, spam and you'll win. If you actually want to play him properly then he is extremely difficult to use due to the micromanagement and multi-tasking needed, also combos aren't easy to pull off as they need foresight in to where you opponent is going to be so you can use Trick Shot can spacing, as well as when you should put down a gunman.

It is satisfying to KO an opponent with the can by making quick judgments on basic physics. I don't spam the can... only shoot the can at certain points to manipulate the distance, the height, and the trajectory of the can. It is possible to juggle the opponent with cans. I also like to jump and then kick a can so the can would start out by being already in the air... this seems to work great against airborne opponents.

I use the discs to disrupt the opponent's actions, whether they are charging a special move, charging a smash move, trying to recover, or shooting a projectile toward me. They are used to stop the opponents from doing something I don't want them to do. But I noticed that it is difficult to recover immediately after throwing a disc... which leads me to conclude that it is probably not a good idea to use discs if you are off-stage.

I think that the gunmen are safe to use while off-stage. They shoot at the opponent while I am trying to reach the edge with Up+B. I think you can recover immediately after summoning a gunman while off-stage. I will have to practice some more in the training mode to verify this.

 

[Exegguter]

Does anyone ever use dhd's 3-hit jabcombo. Does it have any use like Falcon's gentleman? I find the timing weird...

Also, besides shooting cans, is there any use for ftilt/dtilt? And which one of those two is faster?

Thanks!

 

[WispBae]

Does anyone ever use dhd'S 3-hit jabcombo. Does it have any use like falcon's gentleman? I find the timing weird...

Also, besies Shooting cans, is there any use for ftilt/dtilt? And ehich one of those too is faster?

Thanks!

The 3-hit jab is a very handy tool for dealing with pressure, since it reaches quite far. Though it's mostly better at higher percents.

F-tilt is very disjointed and great for spacing, and d-tilt can shield poke. Hitting can with d-tilt sends it flying pretty far at a low angle, and you could pivot into an f-tilt into a can for someone chasing you, getting a free can punish!

 

[Exegguter]

The 3-hit jab is a very handy tool for dealing with pressure, since it reaches quite far. Though it's mostly better at higher percents.

F-tilt is very disjointed and great for spacing, and d-tilt can shield poke. Hitting can with d-tilt sends it flying pretty far at a low angle, and you could pivot into an f-tilt into a can for someone chasing you, getting a free can punish!

Thanks! Sorry for my hideous grammar I'm on my phone lol.

is his jab his fastest move btw?

 

[WispBae]

Thanks! Sorry for my hideous grammar I'm on my phone lol.

is his jab his fastest move btw?

I'm not too sure, I think his Nair may be faster...

@ Spirst @ DunnoBro a lil help?

 

[Spirst]

His fastest moves are the frame 4 jab and the frame 4 fair. The nair starts on frame 6 like the uair and dtilt.

 

[Cancel]

It is satisfying to KO an opponent with the can by making quick judgments on basic physics. I don't spam the can... only shoot the can at certain points to manipulate the distance, the height, and the trajectory of the can. It is possible to juggle the opponent with cans. I also like to jump and then kick a can so the can would start out by being already in the air... this seems to work great against airborne opponents.

I use the discs to disrupt the opponent's actions, whether they are charging a special move, charging a smash move, trying to recover, or shooting a projectile toward me. They are used to stop the opponents from doing something I don't want them to do. But I noticed that it is difficult to recover immediately after throwing a disc... which leads me to conclude that it is probably not a good idea to use discs if you are off-stage.

I think that the gunmen are safe to use while off-stage. They shoot at the opponent while I am trying to reach the edge with Up+B. I think you can recover immediately after summoning a gunman while off-stage. I will have to practice some more in the training mode to verify this.

Seems like a good idea.

 

[Gidy]

Duck Hunt not a good offensive character?

I don't play Duck Hunt competitively, but when I do some friendlies with him I feel that he has really good set ups for safe approach options like with Side B to grab when they shield. What do you guys think?

 

[Spirst]

Duck Hunt not a good offensive character?

I don't play Duck Hunt competitively, but when I do some friendlies with him I feel that he has really good set ups for safe approach options like with Side B to grab when they shield. What do you guys think?

I've merged your thread with the Q&A one because I felt it more appropriate here rather than a new thread.

For offensive play, I think DH can do a good job when he uses his tools to create openings for grabs/aerials as well as just getting in the other player's head. For shielding, I'd go for gunmen rather than clay pigeon if you're just looking to grab. Gunmen have less cooldown and with the delay, are more awkward to read properly. Side B followups are good though if you get a sweetspotted aerial after. DH is a character that should probably learn both defensive and offensive play and learn to switch mid-game depending on the other player. The good thing is he has the tools to play either side and being able to effectively switch mid-game (provided you're not against someone like Sonic) is a an advantage.