NU To OU Project- First batch

[CRASHiC]

Never Used To Over Used
Fixing The Underdevloped Pokemon
​

There are a lot of pokemon out there who just don't make the cut, but who could pose a big threat in the metagame other wise, these pokemon switch back and forth from NU to UU and can't do barely much of anything in standard or Uber games. However, most of these pokemon can be fixed by changes to movepool. This project is for Smashboards to take NU/UU pokemon with potential and turn them into pokemon who are viable in standard play (though not OU per say, because that's all popularity).

The procedure: I pick a batch of NU/UU pokemon that fit the following criteria:

1. Have true potential, as in no Spendra or Farfetched stats.
2. Can fit a nitch not filled by pokemon in standard tier with some movepool help.
3. Are not viable in Uber play, as buffs are then determined not needed or would be excess.
4. A Nice Time I Cat
5. Can actually contribute something to the current metagame.

The procedure will be as followed:

1. Batch is selected and posted, with order of discussion.
2. Pokemon changes are debated based on:
logic (can this pokemon learn this move?),
viability (will this increase this pokemon chances of being used?),
and originality (does this allow this pokemon to do anything new?)
3. a mimic movepool is created and a minor in thread poll is cast with human counting
4. We continue to the next pokemon and repeat steps 2-3 until entire batch of pokemon are finished, then proceed to step five.
5. Create a multioption poll and vote on which pokemon were successfully made viable for standard, and pokemon that could not be are deemed "Lost causes"

Batch 1
1. Flareon
2. Sharpedo
3. Zangoose
4. Lickilicky
5. Chatot
6. Arbok

Now with this, I would like to state the rules really quickly. We only change move pool and ability. NO BASE STATS. We only create new things AS A MUST and we only give pokemon moves that make sense, we will not give Goldduck Roost.

 

[CRASHiC]

Pokemon 1:

Summary: Flareon, perhaps the first, what were they thinking? pokemon who has always suffered from a horrible movepool finally has the chance to shine thanks to the physical special split. . . but it didn't. Why? Despite the ABILITY to give fire pokemon STAB, they still didn't. So, the first reaction to fixing Flareon is always "Give it Flare Blitz" but does that really solve its problems? I don't believe so, because even then, it simply becomes a worse Arcanine. Flareon is slow and has no bulk, as well as suffering from the horrible fire type that makes its defenses seem even more pitiful. Can Flareon REALLY hold its own dealing with bulky waters, earthquakes, ON TOP of receiving damage each time it hits the opponent? Highly doubtful.


Final Changes:
Ability: Reckless

Moves:
Flare Blitz
Iron Head
Stone Edge

Next Pokemon
Sharpedo

Obvious problems:
wrong ability. Whoever gave it this is just silly. Rough Skin is for defense pokemon, not Sharpedo.

Busy so I can't write up a detalied report, but I'll go ahead and post my suggestions:

1. Technician
2. Pursuit

A set would look something like
Choice Band/Scarf
Technician

Pursuit
Aqua Jet
Earthquake
Rock Tomb

So its a water scout.
STAB Aqua Jet, STAB Pursuit with technician boost



Pokemon 3:
Alright, moving on from that shallow (lol) pokemon, Zangoose.

It strikes me as odd that Zangoose dropped so far this generation, being forced into Borederline last gen, being VERY useful in OU. So, why did Zangoose fall so far? To be honest, I'm at a lost.

1. Immunity grants it poison immunity, allowing it to avoid toxic spikes.
2. It gains elemental punches, as did all physical types.
3. Silk Scarf gained a 20 percent boost.
4. Close Combat.

My guess is that in a world full of offense, Zangoose could no longer go, Oh, Hey there wall, I'm going to set up on you, kay? It rarely gets that opportunity in today's game, and even more, with Close Combat running around everywhere, along with stealth rocks, spikes, among other types, it just doesn't have the bulk nor the speed to do what it needs to. Another problem comes from there simply being better options than a Zangoose with a silk scarf and quick attack, that being anything with Life Orb Bullet Punch. Steel types have also increased, as well as the ever present Rotom, making its main use seem even less viable. Zangoose just doesn't make the cut sadly.

So how to fix it?

Lazy man's answer:
give it extreme Speed.

yeah, let's aid its niche that is no longer a viable niche. That'll work.

No, no it won't. Instead you are setting yourself up for disaster by making a pokemon so specialized that in the right metagame it will destroy it, ALA Blissey and Skarmory in G/S/C. So, not only do we still have a pokemon that isn't viable, but could wreck havok in the wrong environment.

So, with that, we see a need to create a new niche for Zangoose. Any suggestions?

 

[Metal~Mario]

Flareon has better Special tanking then Arcanine.

Maybe that has utility?

Sidebar-Add Poliwrath to the next batch.

 

[CRASHiC]

One thing we could do is give it an ability to make up for it: Reckless gives Flareblitz a 144 base before STAB. However, that really doesn't solve its problems still. With STAB, Choice Band, and a weather boost, it still doesn't Aerodactyl, though it comes close. It will still suffer largely from common counters. Still, without these major counters, Flareon could really tare about UU, but OU is our goal, and how close does it come? Well, with stealth rocks, it does more than half to GDose, probably a major counter. Trouble is, that allows Gdose the chance to set up, and with no reliable way to hit back, there we see a major problem. I'd have to go through the complete OU list to see just how many common counters he would have, but I can safely say i think that its more than enough to ruin its party. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have an idea, but it requires something I frown upon in SmashCAP and tend to avoid talking about: a brand new ability (though not a farfetched on at that).

Burn Heal
Similar to Toxic Heal, the concept works the same, take a pokemon that needs a bit more bulk and give it a way to heal itself while preventing being destroyed from status moves. Flareon also wouldn't have to deal with nasty status alliments holding it back from Stall Teams. Also, I'm assuming it won't come with the drop in attack stat.

A set would look something like

Flareon@Fire Orb
Substitute
Wish
Will-O-Wisp/Yawn
Flare Blitz

A fire version of Breloom if you will. Not entirely effective do to the lack of protection against your counters aside from Yawning on switch in, but pretty **** amazing other wise.

So, these two abilities plus the move Flare Blitz are my suggestions to bump up Flareon.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Excellent CRASHiC.

I totally agree, except Flareon is still very slow.

 

[CRASHiC]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the first set would use Choice Scarf.

However, there is a problem with that. Flareon's move pool is very limited. Its not exactly the best Choice Scarf User. Its move pool is limited, very much so, the best you could do is probably

Flare Blitz
Return
Bite
Iron Tail

As you see, not a big type distribution and nothing to deal with its weaknesses, not does it have the ultitly of Scizor. Now, you could give it the base moves- Pursuit and U-turn, but those don't help its weaknesses at all. It doesn't stop Salamence from ****ting on it, it doesn't stop Earth types, it doesn't really stop any of its counters and becomes very predictable and very stoppable. Now it seems like a worse version of Weavile. It needs something, some attack to make it a scout all its own. What that is, I'm not sure, maybe you guys can help with that.

 

[Metal~Mario]

I would suggest Thunder Fang, but is has low base power.

 

[Wave⁂]

With Reckless, give it Double-Edge.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Double-Edge?
Flare Blitz?
Reckless?

This isn't Flareon anymore. It's a slow Staraptor w/o Roost.

 

[Wave⁂]

Staraptor doesn't have Reckless or Flare Blitz.

Or Special Defense.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Staraptor has BB, the Flying equivalent of Flare Blitz.

I'm only saying that Flareon is going to die to its own move recoil pretty easily.

Even with Burn Heal, Flareon's high Atk almost ensures it.

 

[Wave⁂]

Torterra has Wood Hammer, the Grass equivalent of Flare Blitz.

OH NOES

 

[Metal~Mario]

Torterra has Wood Hammer, the Grass equivalent of Flare Blitz.

OH NOES

and more HP and Less Atk.

OH NOES

oh and Leech seed/Synthesis for HP restoration. and SS immunity.

 

[CRASHiC]

The Scarf/Reckless set is suppose to be a glass cannon. Its suppose to die easy if not used right.

givint it double edge would be a great option against those who resist Flareblitz, with the exception of Rock pokemon and Heatran, but every pokemon needs a weakness.

So far on the proposed list we have:

Two new abilities:
Reckless/Burn Heal

One New Attack:
Flare Blitz

 

[Metal~Mario]

The Scarf/Reckless set is suppose to be a glass cannon. Its suppose to die easy if not used right.

My point is it will die quickly regardless. Due to massive recoil.

But anything is better than the current Flareon.

 

[CRASHiC]

I would run choice band Arcanine in UU and I pull off some amazing late game sweeps with that thing. This is that with WAY more power. I think it could do fine, now having two sets that you will have to predict to switch in on, because a wrong prediction will either get you set up for sleep or will OHKO you. I'd be very interested in seeing how this Flareon would play and rise and fall in a metagame.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Looks good. Do we move on to Sharpedo or what?

 

[CRASHiC]

I think we should keep this discussion open for another day at least to hear any more suggestions or critiques from people as so far only 3 have joined the discussion. Tyr hasn't said anything yet for instance, and I know he will.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Wait I just thought of something.

Why does Entei learn Stone Edge and not Flareon?

Would that help its offensive sets at all?

 

[CRASHiC]

Stone Edge would help the choice scarf set a ton.

1. Flare Blitz
2. Double Edge
3. Stone Edge
4. Filler (probably Bite)

However, the pokemon still has one glaring weakness: Heatran. It walls everything it can throw at it and can even absorb its Flare Blitz. Is this enough keep it out of OU forever? Remember, the goal isn't to make it a sure fire (puns lol) hit into OU but to make it viable to where if the metagame allowed it (half of pokemon tiers really, just look at Weezing and Umbreon) the could be OU. Heatran might be on the rise here soon, so its possible that this could keep Flareon in UU, but that doesn't mean that Flareon wouldn't have reached its goal of becoming viable.

 

[Wave⁂]

Rock is the "only" thing that resists Fire / Normal. Iron Head?

 

[Metal~Mario]

^Entei also learns this. And is quite successful with it. With more atk, maybe Flareon can score some more KOs on troublesome pokes. I can't think of any examples atm.

 

[Wave⁂]

Flareon @ Choice Scarf
Flare Blitz
Double-Edge
Iron Head
Thunder Fang

 

[Metal~Mario]

Looks like the aforementioned Entei-but MUCH better!

Hmmm...Scarf gives it 356 Speed with a +Speed nature, right?

I guess that's okay.

Wait a minute!

I just checked Smogon. How come nobody mentioned using Superpower?
That hits Rock super effectively.

 

[Wave⁂]

Uh.. ****.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Superpower is stronger than Iron Head or Iron Tail.

Oh and it hits Heatran super effectively. Heatran problem solved, CRASHiC.

 

[IC3R]

The only problem with the Flame Orb self-healing technique is...Flareon cannot get burned. Now if it could restore health from opposing Fire moves, that would be a little more useful, considering its horrendous Base HP.

The main problem Flareon has is its craptastic Speed.
With ExtremeSpeed as a move, it can hit some of its counters pretty hard coming off of 130 Base Attack; look at Scizor's Technician Quick Attack (not Bullet Punch, because that gets STAB), and how hard it hits certain critters. Combine this with Curse, and it could possibly be notable.

Or give it Thunder Wave--it could learn fricking ZAP CANNON in G/S/C.

idk, Flareon is gonna be a tough one.


=-=-=-=

 

[Wave⁂]

I vote a big fat NO to ExtremeSpeed.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Obviously Flame Heal would change its users so they are susceptible to burns.

Curse+Quick Attack could work, but only if you carry something to deter Suicune, like Toxic or Stone Edge.

 

[CRASHiC]

Wait, can't get burned off an Orb either? Really? Didn't know that. Well I guess Toxic heal would work, but I'm not sure I could see that on Flareon.

Flareon can already absorb other fire attacks. That ability is almost useless.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Absorbing and powering up a potential Fire-type move is NOT the same as absorbing and taking HEALTH from Fire-type moves.

Serene Grace and Sacred Fire, please.

On a more serious note. I think Flareon should get Reckless as stated before, and give it the addition of say Iron Head.

-Terywj

 

[Deleted member]

I fixed flareon. I hacked one to have sacred fire and earthquake in tandem with serene grace over flash fire. then I scarfed him and flareon was almost playable.

my gardevoir set *****.

 

[WoapGang]

Before I Start, i'd like to say that i really like this thread.

Since Flareon's base Sp.Atk is acceptable, (not perfect) but acceptable, wouldn't it be viable to hook it up with Hidden Power Grass/Water?

 

[CRASHiC]

Final Changes:
Ability: Reckless

Moves:
Flare Blitz
Iron Head
Stone Edge

Next Pokemon
Sharpedo

Obvious problems:
wrong ability. Whoever gave it this is just silly. Rough Skin is for defense pokemon, not Sharpedo.

Busy so I can't write up a detalied report, but I'll go ahead and post my suggestions:

1. Technician
2. Pursuit

A set would look something like
Choice Band/Scarf
Technician

Pursuit
Aqua Jet
Earthquake
Rock Tomb

So its a water scout.
STAB Aqua Jet, STAB Pursuit with technician boost
Earthqu

 

[Metal~Mario]

I was thinking Guts, because Sharpedo could really use some safe switch-ins.

It also makes sense, since he's a shark.

 

[CRASHiC]

Despite his lack of feet, I would prefer quick feet.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Guts Sharpedo would deal nicely against UU.

Sharpedo @ Focus Sash / Flame Orb
Guts / Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
~ Super Fang
~ Taunt
~ Aqua Jet
~ Crunch

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

U-Turn is one of the best moves in the game and hits Dark-types.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Okay. What do you expect to happen that would remedy it?

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

You have two options: give it the ability to switch in and kill said U-turners, or give it a purpose that avoids U-turners. U-turn is not pursuit thankfully.