Nosferatu questions

[B33b3]

Okay so, I've been trying to pick up Robin and I think I understand her mechanics pretty well, mostly just getting used to her speed and range. BUT Nosferatu as strong as it is, I can't seem to figure out how to properly use it. I mostly practice against level 9 ai's, don't care to go online just yet, but I've noticed enemies break out of it very very quickly so I rarely seem to get good use from it. Is there a way to hold enemies in it longer? And do you guys have some tips for getting enemies with it? Maybe baiting techniques or even aggressive ways of getting it?

Note: I usually only use it when my damage is +100%, but is it better to get some damage on my enemy first or while they still have lower percentages?

 

[Deleted member]

Okay so, I've been trying to pick up Robin and I think I understand her mechanics pretty well, mostly just getting used to her speed and range. BUT Nosferatu as strong as it is, I can't seem to figure out how to properly use it. I mostly practice against level 9 ai's, don't care to go online just yet, but I've noticed enemies break out of it very very quickly so I rarely seem to get good use from it. Is there a way to hold enemies in it longer? And do you guys have some tips for getting enemies with it? Maybe baiting techniques or even aggressive ways of getting it?

Note: I usually only use it when my damage is +100%, but is it better to get some damage on my enemy first or while they still have lower percentages?

While I no longer main Robin myself, I can tell you that the CPU's just mash out insanely fast.

You'll have a much easier time getting percent from a human player.

That and the higher their percent (as with grabs), the longer it will take for them to mash out.

As for baiting techniques and such I'll leave that to the talented Robin mains, @Raziek and @ False Sense come to mind.

Also there may or may not be (I can't remember exactly right now) a Q&A thread for Robin gameplay questions and such in the subforum.

They can help you out there and it would alleviate the need to merge another thread, just something to note for future reference.~

EDIT: As I recall the amount you drain is related to the difference in damage between you and the opponent, but again @Raziek would know better than me.

 

[Zareidriel]

The biggest tip I can give you for Nosferatu is to use it when your opponent is shielding, or when they are playing defensively. I tend to use it above 70% or so, as that will both make it harder for them to break out of it and also increase the amount you heal. Like the other guy said, humans will rarely break out of it as quickly as Lv9's can.

 

[False Sense]

As for baiting techniques and such I'll leave that to the talented Robin mains, @Raziek and @ False Sense come to mind

I'm really not that talented with Robin...

But as for baiting, one of Nosferatu's best qualities is that it's a command grab; it can punish shields both in the air and on the ground. One effective tactic is to pressure the opponent with descending Levin Sword strikes to condition them into shielding as you approach from the air. That gives you the chance to punish them with Nosferatu.

 

[B33b3]

Sweet thanks for the tips! I guess a lot of this stuff is going to be more useful against human opponents rather than lvl 9 comps, I do feel like I'm getting a bit better with it just trying to use it a lot more. And I'll have a look for those Q&A sub threads too.

 

[ChaosArgate]

I'm going to go against the grain and say Nosferatu is a really bad move. Yes, it's a command grab and it's useful for punishing shields, but it's really hard to land and every time I try to use it to punish a shield, I get punished myself for it. I honestly think there's a little too much startup time for Nosferatu and it's grab range seems to be even worse than Robin's regular grab. I've managed to hit people with it most often by accident by trying to just burn Nosferatu charges to get the book because that's really the only good part about it.

 

[Robertman2]

I only use Goetia...

 

[Zareidriel]

ChaosArgate, I respect your difference in opinion, but if you never learn to use Nosferatu properly, you will never be able to bring about Robin's full potential. If I were you, I'd keep taking risks and making mistakes trying to use it, no matter how long it takes or whiffed Nosferatus it costs you. Not to be a bragging asshole, but at this point in my career, I land easily more than half of the Nosferatus I attempt, even against tournament-level players and ones I play against all the time.

 

[ChaosArgate]

Honestly, I play more of a mid-range Robin with the mindset that if I'm close enough to Nosferatu, I'm probably better off either getting away or throwing out a Levin smash. Robin has surprisingly good longevity and it takes a lot to kill him/her and with the rage mechanic increasing knockback at higher percentages, I tend not to care too much about how high my damage is.

 

[Zareidriel]

More damage leads to higher chance of death and loss of stock, loss of match, and loss of money; having less damage = good, and this is an ironclad rule. Elsewise why not start every match at a handicap 100% just for the rage? Would you not pick up a heart container if it spawned at your feet? I daresay everyone plays a mid-range Robin, because that is our best range, and if your mindset is only to smash attack (or escape) when in close range, your opponents are not punishing you hard enough for doing so. Being able to master every aerial, ground attack, tilt, and special attack is paramount to playing any character to their utmost potential, and Robin is no exception.

 

[SoBMudkip]

I feel it hits the most when I approach from the air, or the opponent is coming in from an aerial attack. I personally don't use it to punish shielding much just because it is easy to roll dodge, but I do use it when I know the opponent is going to attack me and I can interrupt their attack with the Nosferatu.

 

[Thinkaman]

Being unblockable (as a grab) is actually totally irrelevant for a move with more startup time than standard human reaction.

If someone tries to block Nosferatu, it is an entirely unforced error that is not reflective of high-level play. It can only be used as a punish.

Exception: Arcfire.

Exception 2: Teams.

 

[Zareidriel]

I think that comment is quite silly, Thinkaman, and belies lack of experience with command-grab characters in other fighting games (i.e. Potemkin, Haggar, Zangief). Human players, even tournament-level ones, are not robots, and cannot respond to things at human reaction speed, which, even for those with insanely fast reflexes, rarely, if ever exceeds 200 milliseconds, or 12 frames in Super Smash Bros. In addition there is something to be said of habit, prediction, and yomi, which a player will be using to gauge their opponent's next move rather than purely reaction. A human cannot see Nosferatu coming where they expected an aerial attack and roll out of the way instead, when their original plan was to shield-grab. I believe you are oversimplifying the matter into "tournament players will never be hit by this" and in turn, under-appreciating the usefulness of Nosferatu.

Mudkip, that's my (second) favorite way to use it as well.

 

[B33b3]

I started to use Nosferatu a bit more against friends and I use it very sparingly so they never expect it to happen so I've managed to turn games aroudn with it a few times, but god help you if you miss. The move really does need to be hard to use because it's stupidly OP. If you hit someone with it at a decently high damage that's an instant 20%-30% you just got back, which should either put you in a lead or even it up. I find the hardest part is following up effectively after that and not trying to use it more. Sadly it feels like a move you only really use once or twice a match because it's so hard to find a good spot to use it. It's possible I'm just bad, I'm sure most of you guys coudl beat me but by my experience with the move, it can easily be in game breaking territory but because it's so hard to use and has so few uses per tome and such a long tome recovery time it's balanced well, but if you can hit it once, let alone twice you are goign to win that stock unless you just straight up **** up.

But yeah the attack requires a lot of mind games to use I feel. You can't just use it offensively, even defensively is tricky, you really just have to mind game into it. It does suck though that if the tome runs out, the game probably wont last long enough for it to come back which is why I find you cna only really use it once maybe twice per match. Which you don't need it more than that anyway.

 

[meleebrawler]

I started to use Nosferatu a bit more against friends and I use it very sparingly so they never expect it to happen so I've managed to turn games aroudn with it a few times, but god help you if you miss. The move really does need to be hard to use because it's stupidly OP. If you hit someone with it at a decently high damage that's an instant 20%-30% you just got back, which should either put you in a lead or even it up. I find the hardest part is following up effectively after that and not trying to use it more. Sadly it feels like a move you only really use once or twice a match because it's so hard to find a good spot to use it. It's possible I'm just bad, I'm sure most of you guys coudl beat me but by my experience with the move, it can easily be in game breaking territory but because it's so hard to use and has so few uses per tome and such a long tome recovery time it's balanced well, but if you can hit it once, let alone twice you are goign to win that stock unless you just straight up **** up.

But yeah the attack requires a lot of mind games to use I feel. You can't just use it offensively, even defensively is tricky, you really just have to mind game into it. It does suck though that if the tome runs out, the game probably wont last long enough for it to come back which is why I find you cna only really use it once maybe twice per match. Which you don't need it more than that anyway.

You know you get your tomes back on a new stock right?

 

[B33b3]

You know you get your tomes back on a new stock right?

Yeah but you aren't goign to use Nosferatu on a new stock until you hit around 100% again so that isn't really all that relevant.

 

[Zareidriel]

I'll occasionally use Nosferatu at zero and early percentages. It catches people by surprise, that's for sure. And the damage is significant enough that the payoff is worth the risk.