No Story Mode Cutscenes For Smash 4

[moneyfrenzy]

Although i agree that melee had much better level design, it almost doesnt matter when there are what? like eight 2 minute levels. Melee's was fun, but brawls was a true "adventure" mode, it had a story, cutscenes, bosses, and levels. Melee's was more of a "here you go, this is just a little something extra to do." That is not a bad thing, but it cannot really be called a story or an adventure mode.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Although i agree that melee had much better level design, it almost doesnt matter when there are what? like eight 2 minute levels. Melee's was fun, but brawls was a true "adventure" mode, it had a story, cutscenes, bosses, and levels. Melee's was more of a "here you go, this is just a little something extra to do." That is not a bad thing, but it cannot really be called a story or an adventure mode.

Although yh u have a point but when Melees was more enjoyable what does that say.....?

Ofc looking back at Melee now is different features wise but for its time it was pretty good and a good ammount of added features than Smash64.

Ugh SSE..was...only the cutscenes and bosses were good..and the very few evil fights...it draggeddddd onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn i couldnt bare to finish it twice....and the gap was years...and i love smash....

 

[moneyfrenzy]

Although yh u have a point but when Melees was more enjoyable what does that say.....?

Ofc looking back at Melee now is different features wise but for its time it was pretty good and a good ammount of added features than Smash64.

Ugh SSE..was...only the cutscenes and bosses were good..and the very few evil fights...it draggeddddd onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn i couldnt bare to finish it twice....and the gap was years...and i love smash....

Exactly. I was saying that brawl was sort of a more complete version for the story/adventure mode, but i never said it was done right. The level design for brawl was so boring imo.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe it could some sort of RPG, there would be no cutscenes, but rather just conversations with lots of action.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Kidding aside, a lot of the SSE was just downright cheesy and given how it took up more than 3/5's of the game disc and more than half of Brawl's development time, it wasn't worth it.

Is that half the development time something we know for a fact? It's news to me, so I'm curious.

 

[Morbi]

At the very least this will shave off some development time. The sooner they finish the happier I am. I will miss the cut-scenes though. They didn't really add anything to the story; however, they were pretty fun.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

At the very least this will shave off some development time. The sooner they finish the happier I am. I will miss the cut-scenes though. They didn't really add anything to the story; however, they were pretty fun.

Are you kidding?! Remember that scene where master hand pointed at Ganondorf? There was so much tension in that scene! The sheer beauty of it had me crying manly tears!

 

[Morbi]

Are you kidding?! Remember that scene where master hand pointed at Ganondorf? There was so much tension in that scene! The sheer beauty of it had me crying manly tears!

I didn't really like how they down-played Master Hand and made Taboo the final boss. Disappointing. I actually like the scene where Mario/Link think you just killed their *****.

 

[The World Warrior]

Eh. The cutscenes in Brawl were OK but nothing spectacular. I can do without them.

 

[SmashBro99]

SSE was fun to play with other people, and I loved the cut-scenes but the story was meh.

I still liked it more than adventure in melee tho, not that it was bad, just wasnt for me i guess.

The Tales people are supposed to be doing a story mode for this game, and I love their stuff so hopefully that's what we will get.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

I didn't really like how they down-played Master Hand and made Taboo the final boss. Disappointing. I actually like the scene where Mario/Link think you just killed their *****.

Agreed. Master hand is far more ominous then taboo in my mind, and he has always been a staple of the series. Why make there be a bad guy that we have never heard of manipulating him?. At least there wasn't someone manipulating tabuu whom we had also never heard of.

Also, Tabuu's ultimate attack involves butterfly wings? Seriously?! If there were to be an sse2 the new main villain's ultimate attack would probably involve kittens.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Is that half the development time something we know for a fact? It's news to me, so I'm curious.

Suchhhh a wasteeee...my days....so glad Sm4sh is learning from Brawl no story mode is best.

 

[Curmudgeon]

People won't admit it but Melee's Adventure Mode was bad and boring (more than SSE), it will be disappointing if Smash 4 returns to something like Melee's.

 

[Dark Phazon]

People won't admit it but Melee's Adventure Mode was bad and boring (more than SSE), it will be disappointing if Smash 4 returns to something like Melee's.

Well atleast of it does it wont even up half the development time

 

[Renji64]

Well long as unlocking characters doesn't take too long. I don't care what it is i did enjoy the cutscenes in brawl's story mode.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Well long as unlocking characters doesn't take too long. I don't care what it is i did enjoy the cutscenes in brawl's story mode.

We all ebjoyed the cutscenes but is it worth half the dev time? Hell no....im tryna point out whats most important in the long run.
Like my Sig does.

 

[Morbi]

People won't admit it but Melee's Adventure Mode was bad and boring (more than SSE), it will be disappointing if Smash 4 returns to something like Melee's.

I actually think Adventure mode was cool. Something was really special about escaping Brinstar or traveling along an F-Zero course avoiding the racers. The maze in Hyrule was also one of my favorites. In all honesty I liked Adventure mode. I liked classic a little bit more because it is the traditional arcade. Race to the Finish and Break the Target mini-games were so fun. The Master Hand boss fight was also always pretty epic. However, I did like Adventure mode. It offered something fresh. The first stage is pretty nice with it's Mario-esque platforming. Of course there were also the secret fights with Luigi and Giant Kirby. I am a big fan of secret fights coming from the Mortal Kombat scene. It is something I always look forward to.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Well atleast of it does it wont even up half the development time

What? Are you trying to say that SSE took half of Brawl's development time?

Yes it took a lot of time to make a story mode like Brawl's, and it turned out to be a pretty decent mode, but more importantly, a huge step-up from Melee's adventure mode. Sure it could have been better, but let's remember this was the first full story mode in Smash's history, it had its flaws but overall it was fun. Especially playing co-op. I'm sure SSB4's story mode will be another improvement over its predecessor.

By the way, Brawl had a lot of great content, even with SSE taking "half of its development time"

I actually think Adventure mode was cool. Something was really special about escaping Brinstar or traveling along an F-Zero course avoiding the racers. The maze in Hyrule was also one of my favorites. In all honesty I liked Adventure mode. I liked classic a little bit more because it is the traditional arcade. Race to the Finish and Break the Target mini-games were so fun. The Master Hand boss fight was also always pretty epic. However, I did like Adventure mode. It offered something fresh. The first stage is pretty nice with it's Mario-esque platforming. Of course there were also the secret fights with Luigi and Giant Kirby. I am a big fan of secret fights coming from the Mortal Kombat scene. It is something I always look forward to.

It was fun the first 2 or 3 times, after that it just got tedious.

 

[Kolorado]

A lot of people have brought up Melee's adventure mode. While I respect that some people liked that, personally, I was not a fan. It was fun the first playthrough, but having to play through the same levels and fight the same opponents in the same order over and over again got tired quickly. There just wasn't enough to motivate me to keep playing with every character. I admit, SSE wasn't flawless, but for me at least it gave me a reason to keep playing the single player mode through to the end.

I enjoyed a lot of the scenes. Watching King Dedede start off looking like a villain and then turn out to be a hero brought back fond memories of Kirby's Adventure. And that scene with the various Nintendo ships facing down Bowser and Ganondorf's ship was just awesome.

I was hoping to see more of a Nintendo villains "Legion Of Doom" in SSB4. Kind of like the Disney villain team up in Kingdom Hearts. Except more usefull. Also, I was disappointed that Sonic's late inclusion ment that he barely appeared in SSE. I wanted to see some more of Sonic in SSB4's Story Mode.

At the very least, I hope they make the Single Player Campaign different for each character. Something like an intro movie, "rival battle", and ending movie for each character would be nice.

 

[Kolorado]

One thing I would have changed about SSE, however, would have been to incorporate more Nintendo enemies. The Subspace Army got somewhat tiresome after awhile.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Is that half the development time something we know for a fact? It's news to me, so I'm curious.

There's an interview floating around somewhere where he talks about it. If I had to guess the date, it should have been around June or July 2008. I'll try digging it up tomorrow.

 

[grizby2]

how about a melee-type adventure mode, but different for each character? maybe even themed after them?
do yo think it would be too much work for the developers/programers?

 

[SmashShadow]

I personally don't care what the story mode is about. All I want is for them to use stages and enemies from the Nintendo world instead of the generic ones from brawl. Cutscenes or not, I just wanna feel like I'm playing a Nintendo game which is something that downgraded from the transition from brawl to melee.

 

[UberMadman]

I actually liked The Subspace Emissary... not perfect, but I loved seeing all of the Nintendo characters interact with each other. That said, I would much rather have a lot more Nintendo themed enemies and bosses since Subspace Emissary only had Mario enemies other than the new subspace enemies and 5 bosses from other series, 2 of which were Ridley.

 

[HeroMystic]

People won't admit it but Melee's Adventure Mode was bad and boring (more than SSE), it will be disappointing if Smash 4 returns to something like Melee's.

Says you. I adored Melee's Adventure Mode. I also liked Smash64's Classic Mode. A lot of this has to deal with changable difficulty and self-imposing challenges. Melee Adventure Mode is short, but in this case less is more since the gameplay doesn't drag (keep in mind, SSE forces characters to move much slower) and the replayability is high. I've played Adventure Mode a lot when I was a kid, sometimes just to see if I can get through it with just 1 life on Very Hard Mode.

I've also got 100% on Brawl's SSE mode, mainly because the mode is a lot better once all the levels are unlocked. But on a new game's run, the game drags so damn hard. I don't think people realize just how detrimental that is.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Says you. I adored Melee's Adventure Mode. I also liked Smash64's Classic Mode. A lot of this has to deal with changable difficulty and self-imposing challenges. Melee Adventure Mode is short, but in this case less is more since the gameplay doesn't drag (keep in mind, SSE forces characters to move much slower) and the replayability is high. I've played Adventure Mode a lot when I was a kid, sometimes just to see if I can get through it with just 1 life on Very Hard Mode.

I've also got 100% on Brawl's SSE mode, mainly because the mode is a lot better once all the levels are unlocked. But on a new game's run, the game drags so damn hard. I don't think people realize just how detrimental that is.

...it dragssss ohnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn......(-_-)

 

[volbound1700]

The enemies in SSE stunk. That was one of the main problems with it. In fact the best levels I played were the ones with the Mario enemies.

The SSE army looked like garbage and most of the time was garbage other than a couple of annoying enemies like the giant bomb thing with double blades. They gave a little bit of a challenge but in an annoying manner.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

After all the complaints SSE has received, Sakurai had essentially two options. Either double down and put upwards of twice as much effort into it, in hopes that it would be good this time, or abandon it altogether. After hearing how much effort SSE took as is, I'm glad he went with the latter.

 

[Renji64]

We all ebjoyed the cutscenes but is it worth half the dev time? Hell no....im tryna point out whats most important in the long run.
Like my Sig does.

True it wasn't worth that dev time at all lol.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

The enemies in SSE stunk. That was one of the main problems with it. In fact the best levels I played were the ones with the Mario enemies.

The SSE army looked like garbage and most of the time was garbage other than a couple of annoying enemies like the giant bomb thing with double blades. They gave a little bit of a challenge but in an annoying manner.

I agree. Familiar enemies are better.
Thought, I would have nothing against if this time Nintendo will use archivied (rejected) enemies from their past games. As long g as they have a somehow familiar looking and a description for which game they were destinated.
Come on! Aren't you at least curious to see which foes we missed in all these years?

After all the complaints SSE has received, Sakurai had essentially two options. Either double down and put upwards of twice as much effort into it, in hopes that it would be good this time, or abandon it altogether. After hearing how much effort SSE took as is, I'm glad he went with the latter.

I would be OK with the first option if it does mean making them interactive and part of the gameplay, leading the story mode to multiple directions.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Depending on how the new Adventure mode really is, I probably won't miss the cutscenes. I'm sure we're going to see some CGI cinematics in more places than one, but nothing like SSE. But for the story and gameplay, I was disappointed.

I liked seeing the Nintendo characters forming different alliances and interacting. That's always great for a crossover. The plot was quite bland and they could've went better with the narrative direction. I know, Smash can definitely benefit without a story and I shouldn't expect something Final Fantasy caliber from a Nintendo game. Well, I've played games such as Kid Icarus: Uprising and Fire Emblem: Awakening and they had some damn entertaining, immersive plots even for Nintendo standards. I would like to see a KI:U direction and incorporate more voice acting. Wouldn't you kill to hear what was really on your favorite characters' minds about their situation and all the moments they will have conflicting with other characters about them? Oh, and the environments and enemies were so dull. Nintendo really needs to show their history and have numerous enemies and settings from their games appear.

As for how it played, the platforming seemed like a really clunky version of Kirby. That's the best way I can describe it. More appropriate mechanics and gimmicks appearing from all kinds of Nintendo games should find a way to fit themselves in.

For what Fatmanonice brought up about the cutscenes, Super Smash Bros. has always been a game with its foundation in suspension of disbelief. But I can get a sense of bias towards the villainous characters and forwarding their goals. The game just cheered on the good guys the whole way through (if you don't count the end!) My creative writing philosophy is for characters to be confronted with the worst scenarios and be forced to adapt to the change in the hardest way for them to cope with. As well as making "good" and "evil" appear grey so no one is a cardboard stereotype. It is something I honestly need to practice more. But how could it be applied to a Smash Adventure mode?

 

[Dark Phazon]

After all the complaints SSE has received, Sakurai had essentially two options. Either double down and put upwards of twice as much effort into it, in hopes that it would be good this time, or abandon it altogether. After hearing how much effort SSE took as is, I'm glad he went with the latter.

I fully expected #1 but sooo happy and for the best that he went with #2.

 

[Dark Phazon]

The only character that should never talk.

So sexy
So beast
Simply the best the greatest
I love Metroid !

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The only character that should never talk.

View attachment 1219
So sexy
So beast
Simply the best the greatest
I love Metroid !

She's been talking since Super Metroid.

 

[Chiroz]

The only character that should never talk.

View attachment 1219
So sexy
So beast
Simply the best the greatest
I love Metroid !

She talks in her games...

The only one who should never talk is Link xD.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The only character that should never talk.

I'd say Link is in first priority of characters that should never ever talk. If you thought Samus talking was bad, which it sure was, then I can only imagine how big a catastrophe Link talking would be.

The silent heroes are often the best, because you can step into their shoes. When you take that away from them, then what's the point of the character? That's why I disliked Samus talking and Sakamoto's reasoning for wanting Samus to actually act like a human, she's just an avatar that we experience the adventure through. I never ever want the same fate inflicted upon LoZ, and given that Miyamoto is a smart man unlike Sakamoto I'm glad it'll never happen.

One thing that Sakurai did right was not giving Fox, Snake, Falco or any of the other characters who usually use dialog any lines. That's the kind of charm Nintendo can pull off, and one of the reasons I like SSE's story despite the glaring flaws, it tells a story solely from actions, events and interactions that don't rely on any kind of dialog.

 

[HeroMystic]

The silent heroes are often the best, because you can step into their shoes. When you take that away from them, then what's the point of the character? That's why I disliked Samus talking and Sakamoto's reasoning for wanting Samus to actually act like a human, she's just an avatar that we experience the adventure through. I never ever want the same fate inflicted upon LoZ, and given that Miyamoto is a smart man unlike Sakamoto I'm glad it'll never happen.

Probably saw it coming, but I can't get behind this line of thinking. While I agree Link shouldn't talk (though I'm not completely against the idea), I disagree with the notion that all the characters are just avatars, especially Samus who has the most personality out of all the Nintendo characters, except arguably the Starfox characters. Ignoring Other: M's existence, Samus has been talking ever since Super Metroid, and she was very dialogue-heavy in Metroid Fusion.

There's also the unavoidable reason that your "avatar" will often do things that you yourself would not do in the first place. This is immersion breaking, and is often the reason why story-tellers have forgone silent protagonists in the first place, because completely empty protagonists are hard, if not impossible, to implement in a narrative.

The best thing about Silent Protagonists is the ability to flesh out their character by yourself and then debate about it online. You often feel closer to Silent Protags because you personally invested a lot of your time to fill in the holes.

Also, Snake has dialogue in Brawl.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Subspace Emissary was all style and no substance... Played through it once (was bored while going through it) and never looked back. The cut scenes were pretty cool at times though.

Overall I won't miss it.

 

[soviet prince]

I am all for samus talking if done right,

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Probably saw it coming, but I can't get behind this line of thinking. While I agree Link shouldn't talk (though I'm not completely against the idea), I disagree with the notion that all the characters are just avatars, especially Samus who has the most personality out of all the Nintendo characters, except arguably the Starfox characters. Ignoring Other: M's existence, Samus has been talking ever since Super Metroid, and she was very dialogue-heavy in Metroid Fusion.

There's also the unavoidable reason that your "avatar" will often do things that you yourself would not do in the first place. This is immersion breaking, and is often the reason why story-tellers have forgone silent protagonists in the first place, because completely empty protagonists are hard, if not impossible, to implement in a narrative.

The best thing about Silent Protagonists is the ability to flesh out their character by yourself and then debate about it online. You often feel closer to Silent Protags because you personally invested a lot of your time to fill in the holes.

Also, Snake has dialogue in Brawl.

Snake didn't interact with anyone through dialog in the story mode though, all he said was "Kept you waiting, huh?"

I don't mind Samus' dialog in Super Metroid because it only happens at the start of the game, and it's really more or less just a "the story thus far" segment. After that Samus is completely mute, had there been dialog through that game the atmosphere of places like Maridia and the Wrecked Ship would have been completely ruined if we had to stop to listen to some stupid thing about how Samus feels like she always did in Other M. Likewise with Metroid Prime, there wasn't a single piece of dialog in that game, at most there was the Chozo stories you could scan, and that game's atmosphere would also have suffered heavily if Samus had to stop up constantly to give her thought on everything. These two games are also commonly considered the best Metroid games, and part of that comes from the fact that it's so easy to immerse yourself into the atmospheres of the places, it's easy to pretend that you're in Samus' shoes.

So what about Fusion? Guess what, I'm not a fan of constantly having to stop up because I have to be told what to do, Metroid is for me about the non-linear gameplay, the exploration and atmospheres of all the places, and Fusion heavily lacked on those departments because Samus was put under the boot of the Federation. Which is funnily enough also Sakamoto's touch, and how he has decided to run the main franchise since Gumpei's unfortunate death after Super Metroid, Zero Mission luckily being an exception. Fusion is still a good game, but Metroid fames are usually great and incredible, not just good, and I feel that Sakamoto's need to tell an underwhelming story is what keeps it from being better than that.

Samus is best kept mute and alone, Metroid is a franchise dependant on exploration and atmosphere, something that's easily taken away by an overarching story, and without its core elements what makes Metroid stand out from the rest of the crowd?