no spikes in SSBB?

[Scar]

At high damages meteors kill. You can't tech in time. So now why are they useless?

By the way, taking out meteors and spikes means taking out attacks that make people go downwards. Why... would you ever do that???

 

[KevinM]

Spikes are awesome... their a way to kill people and they take skill... if they take that out they should take out attacks all together and make it a shoving match

 

[Justin]

Spikes are awesome... their a way to kill people and they take skill... if they take that out they should take out attacks all together and make it a shoving match

Or a tickle fest. I'd punt that game out of the window so fast...

It's simple...spikes must stay. If you don't like them...I don't know..airdodge? hahaha

 

[btk Ace]

Spikes are awesome... their a way to kill people and they take skill... if they take that out they should take out attacks all together and make it a shoving match

I completley agree
spikes are really needed for smash
they are skilled and take a lot into the game
with out them the games become longer

 

[Cisne]

Suuuuureeee Trucido, ill put my enemys percentage at 200 just for a meteor , and they can still be recovered with ease. Meteor are useless.
Spikes or nothing , i dont want more useless moves in the game :/

 

[Sensai]

Surely you're not implying that Meteor spikes are useless?

I can honestly say that the coolest thing I've ever seen done was the result of a meteor spike. I jumped off to spike a Falcon (I play Ganon, BTW), and I hit him, which he cancelled. Then, on the same jump, I nailed him again.

Getting gayed out of a life by a Falco who refuses to move except from that one spot is just terrible. It's like making Kirby's B move so that it can't be gotten out of.

 

[Cisne]

Meteors - u can recover
Spikes - u cant recover

meteors are useless , spikes are awesome xP

 

[Sensai]

Meteors are useless, spikes are overpowered*.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

SO learn to perfectly sweetspot. Besides, spikes aren't always used. It's difficult to time falco's dair against anyone besides fox/falco/gdorf/falcon, and even then it's really hard to get perfecft sweetspotters. Marth's dair, although it is a spike in NTSC, doesn't kill to often. You always see in combo vids things like fair to spike, but that doesn't happen to often. Watch pro vids of Ken or Azen and the like, and although they will occasionally get spikes they usually edgeguard in other ways.

Falcos do get more dair kills, but again, the dair is much more used for combos, and like i said earlier it would be ******** if you could just jump out of the combo. Pro falcos get more kills though aerials and dsmash/fsmash.

 

[Justin]

When I play as my secondary, Falco, I spam his dair spike any chance I get. I don't care how I win or how cheap the win was..even if I dair spike my opponent all 4 stocks...I get the W so thats all that matters to me.

 

[zerosin]

(1) So should meteors be abolished? (2) Should all meteors that spike be changed into spikes? For example, C. Falcon's knee is a meteor and it's lethal. However, his dair is a meteor spike and that can be meteor canceled.
(3) If these "meteor spikes" were to change into just spikes, should their startup times change or would that be immaterial?
Answers please.

 

[Justin]

Spikes should stay spikes and meteors should stay meteors. Besides, people who use a character that has a meteor spike and not a real spike results in them using different means to keep their opponents off the stage and KO them, i.e edgeguarding. So it's kind of good for them..in a way it almost forces them to edgeguard and makes them better at it.

 

[Sensai]

I agree with HQRock. Some things need to be left unchanged.

Although, I think Nintendo could use true spikes as a means of balancing characters out. Sure, Zelda sucks, but what if she's got a spike...?

 

[wuthefwasthat]

they shoudl make everything a meteor, but make it much harder to cancel at higher percentages. and then, maybe at like 100%, itd be a true spike no matter what.

 

[Linkster47]

Marth's dair, although it is a spike in NTSC, doesn't kill to often. You always see in combo vids things like fair to spike, but that doesn't happen to often. Watch pro vids of Ken or Azen and the like, and although they will occasionally get spikes they usually edgeguard in other ways.

I agree with you on Marths spike. If you don't hit them with the tip of the sword they won't even get spiked and can easily recover. Plus, if you are away from the edge and you miss or even if you hit, the lag lasts to long and you will most likely die even if you use Marths upB to reduce it.

PS: Sorry about the wavedashing being a unintentional thing, most people say it is and I believed them. Now people are saying it was in the debug menu and have evidence. There was also a super wavedash in it someone said on another thread, but they had no evidence.

 

[Mr. Derp]

it should either be all spikes, all meteors, or nothing, I just think its unfair that already awesome characters such as marth and falco get them, but poor kirby gets an easily meteorcanceled dair.

 

[Sensai]

Linkster, wavedashing was noticed before the game was released, but not taken out due to the fact that they didn't understand the emphasis it would have on the game.

So, they saw it, but felt it was insignificant.

 

[Scar]

lol Shut up Cisne. Fine, you're right. But what about Yoshi's story!?

*niceeee*

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

SO learn to perfectly sweetspot. Besides, spikes aren't always used. It's difficult to time falco's dair against anyone besides fox/falco/gdorf/falcon, and even then it's really hard to get perfecft sweetspotters. Marth's dair, although it is a spike in NTSC, doesn't kill to often. You always see in combo vids things like fair to spike, but that doesn't happen to often. Watch pro vids of Ken or Azen and the like, and although they will occasionally get spikes they usually edgeguard in other ways.

Falcos do get more dair kills, but again, the dair is much more used for combos, and like i said earlier it would be ******** if you could just jump out of the combo. Pro falcos get more kills though aerials and dsmash/fsmash.

Exactly. This guy knows what he's talking about, listen to him.

I like ''SO? Learn how to perfectly sweetspot''

EXACTLY stop your whinning. If you're getting killed by falco's dair as a spike consistantly I really do feel sorry for your lack of recovery skills, you'd have to be about as obvious about your recovery as possible to get daired by falco more than every so often, AND killed by it. Sure if you're fox and you HAVE to firefox up towards the stage, falco just shffls a dair in place and gg, but in most recovery situations there are a whole assload of ways to not get killed by Falcos dair, like he said ^^ Watch pro videos.

 

[Cisne]

shut up ? u play ntsc version for sure , i cant play it yet so i play pal and its sux how a setup fails when the spike turn come and there is a useless meteor that leave u at risk off the edge and let the enemy recover with ease

ataks with extreme lag that leave u flying unarmed should be letal, meteors are useless
my entire crew can recover from then with any % , those moves sux -.-

 

[LinkGadra]

A lot of these post seem to refer to Melee when we're supposed to be talking about Brawl. Here's my two cents:

Every character gets at least one meteor and one spike (maybe more, no less).
Make the simpler attack (ex. Falco's Dair) the meteor.
Make the more difficult attack (ex. Mario's Fair) the spike.

Makes meteors more useful, and spikes all the more satisfying.

 

[wuthefwasthat]

A lot of these post seem to refer to Melee when we're supposed to be talking about Brawl. Here's my two cents:

Every character gets at least one meteor and one spike (maybe more, no less).
Make the simpler attack (ex. Falco's Dair) the meteor.
Make the more difficult attack (ex. Mario's Fair) the spike.

Makes meteors more useful, and spikes all the more satisfying.

reasonable enough. or maybe just no meteors. just a true spike for everybody, but a hard one, like ganondorf down-b, panspike, uair tailspike, nipple spike, etc.

 

[Justin]

reasonable enough. or maybe just no meteors. just a true spike for everybody, but a hard one, like ganondorf down-b, panspike, uair tailspike, nipple spike, etc.

heh, nipple spike...

You know what? Just **** it...give every character a spike in Brawl. Because the majority of the people crying about spikes are the people who use characters that don't have a spike attack and they get all pissy when they get spiked. If every character had a spike then guess what? No more complaints. And that is what we all want in life. Yes?

This thread makes me want to spike the living hell out of someone right now..numerous times. I think I'll call my friend over for some Melee...

 

[gravsamus4747]

leave spikes in for sure. Taking spikes out would be silly.

 

[The Incredible Giant Cannon]

I've played melee for a long time and I don't even know what a spike is

 

[Sensai]

Highqualityrock, not everyone would just stop complaining. You'd have **** about
how some spikes are better, I.E. Ganon's down B versus Falco's Dair.

[Edit:]

Oops. I'm dumb.

 

[LinkGadra]

Sensai, I was talking about Brawl, not Melee. Just making a suggestion about the new game, nothing more.

 

[Sensai]

Wow, I'm dumb. My bad, LinkGadra.

/mutters to himself

 

[mario-man]

Do we consider Mario's Fair a spike?? If we do then it better stay in, because that's one of my favorite ways to win a match.

 

[zerosin]

First, you give everyone a spike, then there'll be arguments about how one's spike is better than the other because of speed and sheer effectiveness. No one will truly be satisfied.
Second, just leave 'em in. If you're pissed about spikes in Melee, learn to use someone with an effective spike (the obvious candidate being Falco's dair). In Brawl, we'll see what happens. For all we know, spikes could be lengthy attacks (like Falcon's or Ganondorf's dair) instead of swift boot smacks (like Falco's dair).

 

[Scar]

lol Well yeah, unless all of the characters in Brawl are clones, there's gonna be people who complain. Hell, even if all the charaters ARE clones, some smashers will complain about edgehoggers and stuff like that.

So with the spike issue, I don't think focusing on making everyone happy is really necessary in the conversation, because everyone will never be happy.

Besides, I kind of like the Melee spikes/meteors.

 

[Me14k]

If every character had a spike it would ruin the game. The game is not meant to be played around spikes...if you are a noob and all you do is try to spike, play with a character that can spike!

I play peach, and I prefer my Dair over a spike/meteor smash like falco's. Why? because I can combo with it..float cancle to dair to Dsmash or ground float to dair to nair.

If you want to spam spikes..be a character that has one, dont request to ruin the game.

 

[zerosin]

Everyone has something that makes it convenient to kill someone. Peach's forward throw when someone is 120%+. Falco's dair. There are many options. Everyone doesn't need a spike. I'm gonna go with Me14k on this one.

 

[i_eat_fried_worms]

If Sakurai deleted spikes, then most of the game's intercepts would be eliminated. Anyways, as long as the meteor cancel exists, spikes should not be much of an issue considering that you can do a B-Up after being hit. Assuming you can time the cancel well, spikes are only a way to rack up damage.

 

[petre]

umm...sorry, but you cant up+b out of a spike. just a meteor.

 

[LinkGadra]

To Sensai: No worries, it's all good.

On-topic: I like zerosin's comment on how everyone has a "killmove" as it were. It's certainly true, and makes for decent balance. That would be good for Brawl.

 

[Scar]

Yeah the killmove thing is cool, it's just that spikes like Falco's are killmoves at like 40%. Which makes people sad.

I think it'd be best if meteors and spikes sort of merged into one concept. They should be cancellable at lower %, but lethal at higher ones, just like say a peach fthrow.

 

[kamikaze falco]

That would be a pretty good idea actually.

 

[Scar]

Now I'm wondering why no one has said that before. Hmm...

 

[zerosin]

Having spike cancels in general would be nice. Giving everyone some sort of killmove would be pretty nice, too. Yet, you'd still have to be very effective in setting some of these up. For example, Peach's fthrow. You can't just run in and grab or you'll be hurting; relative amounts of skill are still involved. That's something that should be maintained in Brawl - superior skill will net you a satisfactory kill move instead of noobish run-in-and-get-pwned crap.