Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

oh, politics? whatva great time to browse Kiss anime.

Sadly, I dont think Im intrested an any new anime. Cant find any I like. I tried Flipper Flappers but I dropped that like a hot potato

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He doesn't seem to have a story. He's just overemotional and has the catchphrase "Oh my God!"

I guess Joeseph Joestar got bad karma after eating something bad. Probably Ceaser Salad

 

[Deleted member]

When it comes to good female characters in anime, it really depends on the context of the show itself. Sasha was the most enjoyable thing in AoT for me as her comedic side was a great contrast to the 'giant naked people go nomnomnom on small people'. There's also Ryuko Matoi, who has flaws and a design which doesn't scream 'strong female protagonist' but her actions, personality and development make her an enjoyable character. Hell, even a hooker like Panty is enjoyable due to the writers knowing what to do

Speaking of anime, I finished MHA. Only problem I have is that there are so many characters I can't remember their names well and have to call them 'Earplug girl' or 'the ****** with a bird head', etc. Now to watch Little Witch Academia and Karas!

Ahh, I wanna chime in on this, as I've given this a lot of thought for my own characters. I pretty much agree with everything you've said, but I wanna add to it.

A good female character in a story is the same as a good character in any story. I've always felt there's a lot of potential in a female lead if done right, but at the same time, I dislike this modern trend of shoehorning female leads into stories and then making them flawless to pander to the modern narrative. Both of the newest Star Wars films come to mind. Rey especially is bothersome with her being the definition of a Mary Sue. And it bothers me, because it's clearly to show "look, girls can be strong too," when, what makes a character interesting are character flaws. Part of a character arc is seeing that character grow and evolve of the course of their own arc, or arcs, and learning to overcome those flaws.

Personally at least, I'll always root for the character who's the underdog and has to work hard to overcome those stronger or more talented than them. In fact, more than that, I like it when stories break conventions and show a character lose, and fail to succeed in their aims, because too many times we have stories that follow the usual conventions and outlines.

But anyway, back to female characters, and more importantly, female leads. I think that a key to writing a good female character more than anything lies in embracing the difference in the genders, what makes women different from men, especially from a psychological standpoint. This is why I think that characters like Ryuko, Mikasa, and even Panty work a lot better than the likes of Rey for example. No point in having a female character/lead if you're just gonna write a male character, and flip the gender, or worse yet, fall back on cliches and bad writing like Mary Sues. Ryuko and Mikasa are both strong female leads, but are both very feminine in their own way, and with their fair share of character flaws. Rey on the other hand lacks any form of femininity or sexuality in her character, and has basically zero character flaws, succeeding in everything she does with little to no effort (though to be fair, Mikasa also pushes the envelope on the Mary Sue spectrum as well, though at least she does has some femininity to her).

Anyway, my two cents, for what they're worth.

 

[Deleted member]

oh, politics? whatva great time to browse Kiss anime.

Sadly, I dont think Im intrested an any new anime. Cant find any I like

Well, the new season doesn't seem to have started yet but I'd recommend Konosuba, the first season is pretty sunny and the second one will air in this next season

As for me, I feel like watching an action anime
*looks at recommendations list*
Not now, romance, not anime, time travel, butt fighting, comedy, drama, drama and action
Alright, should I go for the butt fighting or Akame ga Kill?

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

oh, politics? whatva great time to browse Kiss anime.

Sadly, I dont think Im intrested an any new anime. Cant find any I like. I tried Flipper Flappers but I dropped that like a hot potato

Have you seen Anohana? It's short but extremely well made. A masterpiece in my mind.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I dislike this modern trend of shoehorning female leads into stories and then making them flawless to pander to the modern narrative. Both of the newest Star Wars films come to mind

The Disastrous Life of Saiki K has something this. Her name is Teruhashi and all the boys go "oh wow" to her but the MC, who she tries so hard to get to say "oh wow" to her but he never does and that fustrates her lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ahh, I wanna chime in on this, as I've given this a lot of thought for my own characters. I pretty much agree with everything you've said, but I wanna add to it.

A good female character in a story is the same as a good character in any story. I've always felt there's a lot of potential in a female lead if done right, but at the same time, I dislike this modern trend of shoehorning female leads into stories and then making them flawless to pander to the modern narrative. Both of the newest Star Wars films come to mind. Rey especially is bothersome with her being the definition of a Mary Sue. And it bothers me, because it's clearly to show "look, girls can be strong too," when, what makes a character interesting are character flaws. Part of a character arc is seeing that character grow and evolve of the course of their own arc, or arcs, and learning to overcome those flaws.

Personally at least, I'll always root for the character who's the underdog and has to work hard to overcome those stronger or more talented than them. In fact, more than that, I like it when stories break conventions and show a character lose, and fail to succeed in their aims, because too many times we have stories that follow the usual conventions and outlines.

But anyway, back to female characters, and more importantly, female leads. I think that a key to writing a good female character more than anything lies in embracing the difference in the genders, what makes women different from men, especially from a psychological standpoint. This is why I think that characters like Ryuko, Mikasa, and even Panty work a lot better than the likes of Rey for example. No point in having a female character/lead if you're just gonna write a male character, and flip the gender, or worse yet, fall back on cliches and bad writing like Mary Sues. Ryuko and Mikasa are both strong female leads, but are both very feminine in their own way, and with their fair share of character flaws on the other hand. Rey on the other hand lacks any form of femininity or sexuality in her character, and has basically zero character flaws, succeeding in everything she does with little to no effort (though to be fair, Mikasa also pushes the envelope on the Mary Sue spectrum as well, though at least she does has some femininity to her).

Anyway, my two cents, for what they're worth.

>calls Rey a Mary Sue
>calls Mikasa a strong female lead
Considering she's easily summed up as 'strong silent type who's perfect in everything other than her wanting her brother's **** and is the only Asian character' that's pretty ****ing hypocritical. Rey lacking femininity or sexuality doesn't ****ing matter. If you think it did, then you're objectively wrong. Because the character's femininity doesn't matter. Hell, the character of my avi has recently gotten lots of popularity in the KR fandom for being an intimidating villain who sorts **** out, yet he says 'watashii' and doesn't really show masculinity in the slightest

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Have you seen Anohana? It's short but extremely well made. A masterpiece in my mind.

Isnt my type of anime, I like actions, comedys, Shounens, ect but Im not a fan of drama or romance

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Should I go out and eat by myself at like IHop or something

Or just go to McDonald's and bring something home

I'm a little stir crazy now that I have no job and just stay at home

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Isnt my type of anime, I like actions, comedys, Shounens, ect but Im not a fan of drama or romance

Squid Girl and Azumanga Daioh are shows I can recommend for comedy, maybe even Nichijou

 

[praline]

Dead Rising 4 is the most fun I've had in a game in a while.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Isnt my type of anime, I like actions, comedys, Shounens, ect but Im not a fan of drama or romance

Hmm...ok. Well, in the shonen realm, try Soul Eater. It's a really fun show.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Squid Girl and Azumanga Daioh are shows I can recommend for comedy, maybe even Nichijou

Already seen both, I have Azumangas DVD set so that says hiw much I like that anime and Nichjou is alright but I wouldnt watch it again

Hmm...ok. Well, in the shonen realm, try Soul Eater. It's a really fun show.

yo yo yo I love Soul Eater to death (No pun intended)

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Already seen both, I have Azumangas DVD set so that says hiw much I like that anime and Nichjou is alright but I wouldnt watch it again

yo yo yo I love Soul Eater to death (No pun intended)

Nice! Who's your favorite SE character? Mine is Soul, with Kid and Liz as runners-up.

 

[Yellowlord]

Squid Girl and Azumanga Daioh are shows I can recommend for comedy, maybe even Nichijou

We have very similar interests in terms of slice of life anime.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Nice! Who's your favorite SE character? Mine is Soul, with Kid and Liz as runners-up.

I think I like all the characters but I do love Death The Kid a lot. Black Star is also a good character

 

[Deleted member]

>calls Rey a Mary Sue
>calls Mikasa a strong female lead
Considering she's easily summed up as 'strong silent type who's perfect in everything other than her wanting her brother's **** and is the only Asian character' that's pretty ****ing hypocritical. Rey lacking femininity or sexuality doesn't ****ing matter. If you think it did, then you're objectively wrong. Because the character's femininity doesn't matter. Hell, the character of my avi has recently gotten lots of popularity in the KR fandom for being an intimidating villain who sorts **** out, yet he says 'watashii' and doesn't really show masculinity in the slightest

I don't entirely agree. Rey is a poorly written character by any stretch of imagination. Like most of the characters in TFA tbh. We don't know her motivations, or goals, or desires. She just acts as the plot tells her to. She's tough, because she's supposed to be "empowered" and she's good at everything she does with little to no explanation. And look Kirito in SAO has the same exact problems, this is why people call him a Gary Stu.

Compare this to Mikasa. We know her motivations, and desires. While they might not be particularly deep or complex (I do agree she could be much better written), she at least has something to drive her, and a well defined purpose. "To become stronger to protect the man she loves." And while her borderline obsessive attraction for Eren is a bit much, it's not without explanation, and more importantly her natural talent suits her cool and collected nature, and serves as a contrast to Eren the MC, and show him as more of an underdog, and give him someone to measure up to.

Rey's natural talent is not only unexplained, but really, serves no purpose in the context of her story, and more than that it actually HINDERS the story, as it removes all dramatic tension. Against the odds at which Rey measures herself up against, she seems so overwhelmingly powerful that nothing is really a threat to her. She rescued herself, and even defeated the main villain of the story with zero training.

Mikasa by contrast is still arguably weaker and less skilled than Levi, and both a extremely vulnerable to the threat that are the Titans, as the show goes out of its way to show that ANYONE can die if they slip up.

As far a sexuality goes. Yeah, I agree that male characters don't have to be overly macho, but traits like heroism and courage are inherently masculine, they are testosterone driven, and strongly associated with masculinity. So by default, when having a female character that takes on a traditionally male role of a hero, she's already taking on various masculine traits. It's always good to balance these with at least a slight flair of feminine traits in order to capitalize on the fact that you have a female character, and more importantly, make them relatable. Even the most tomboy of tomboys, will still have a slight bit of a girly side to her. Because everyone in a way kinda carries both masculine and feminine traits regardless of gender. This is why the new male lead in KR works so well, because by adding a tinge of feminine traits to him, despite him taking on a very masculine role, you instantly make him more interesting. This is why Jojo characters are so interesting as well. But despite the borderline homoeroticism in Jojo, all the characters are still very masculine and badass. Back to Mikasa, she still has some feminine traits. If anything, in the way she gets all deredere for Eren. It's that small detail that instantly balances out her character, and makes her that much more interesting.

Rey on the other hand is completely devoid of femininity and sexuality, and thus, she's incredibly boring. You could literally replace her with a man, and there would be NO difference. So then... what's the point?

 

[Coricus]

Nevermind, I probably shouldn't have ranted about something like that. I just started thinking about one situation and it derailed.

 

[Deleted member]

It's been a whole year and people are still calling Rey a Mary Sue? Lol, it's actually kinda sad

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Im half tempted to watch Yuri on Ice, Free, Free Season 2 andUta no Prince-sama again for ****s and giggles

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It's been a whole year and people are still calling Rey a Mary Sue? Lol

Time passing doesn't stop a Mary Sue from being a Mary Sue

 

[Deleted member]

It's been a whole year and people are still calling Rey a Mary Sue? Lol, it's actually komda sad

Because she is.

And Kirito will never stop being a Gary Stu. Bad writing is bad writing. This is why stories should be CHARACTER DRIVEN, not plot driven. The characters' actions and motivations should drive the story, not the other way around.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The more I think of the Force Awakens the less I actually like it

I think it has less identity than the prequels. Regardless if it's better or not

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

I think I like all the characters but I do love Death The Kid a lot. Black Star is also a good character

I remember hating Black Star for the first few episodes, but now I appreciate him lol. He gets especially funny in the 2nd half.

Spoiler

Only character out of the core 7 I dislike is Maka...she's much better fleshed out in the manga and gives me Mary Sue vibes in the anime...please don't hurt me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't entirely agree. Rey is a poorly written character by any stretch of imagination. Like most of the characters in TFA tbh. We don't know her motivations, or goals, or desires. She just acts as the plot tells her to. She's tough, because she's supposed to be "empowered" and she's good at everything she does with little to no explanation. And look Kirito in SAO has the same exact problems, this is why people call him a Gary Stu.

Compare this to Mikasa. We know her motivations, and desires. While they might not be particularly deep or complex (I do agree she could be much better written), she at least has something to drive her, and a well defined purpose. "To become stronger to protect the man she loves." And while her borderline obsessive attraction for Eren is a bit much, it's not without explanation, and more importantly her natural talent suits her cool and collected nature, and serves as a contrast to Eren the MC, and show him as more of an underdog, and give him someone to measure up to.

Rey's natural talent is not only unexplained, but really, serves no purpose in the context of her story, and more than that it actually HINDERS the story, as it removes all dramatic tension. Against the odds at which Rey measures herself up against, she seems so overwhelmingly powerful that nothing is really a threat to her. She rescued herself, and even defeated the main villain of the story with zero training.

Mikasa by contrast is still arguably weaker and less skilled than Levi, and both a extremely vulnerable to the threat that are the Titans, as the show goes out of its way to show that ANYONE can die if they slip up.

As far a sexuality goes. Yeah, I agree that male characters don't have to be overly macho, but traits like heroism and courage are inherently masculine, they are testosterone driven, and strongly associated with masculinity. So by default, when having a female character that takes on a traditionally male role of a hero, she's already taking on various masculine traits. It's always good to balance these with at least a slight flair of feminine traits in order to capitalize on the fact that you have a female character, and more importantly, make them relatable. Even the most tomboy of tomboys, will still have a slight bit of a girly side to her. Because everyone in a way kinda carries masculine and feminine traits regardless of gender. This is why the new male lead in KR works so well, because by adding a tinge of feminine traits to him, despite him taking on a very masculine role, you instantly make him more interesting. This is why Jojo characters are so interesting as well. But despite the borderline homoeroticism in Jojo, all the characters are still very masculine and badass. Back to Mikasa, she still has some feminine traits. If anything, in the way she gets all deredere for Eren. It's that small detail that instantly balances out here character, and makes her that much more interesting.

Rey on the other hand is completely devoid of femininity and sexuality, and thus, she's incredibly boring. You could literally replace her with a man, and there would be NO difference. So then... what's the point?

But...If the criticism applies to every character why specifically mention Rey?
To be fair, 'reacting to the plot' is surprisingly common, I believe that's what 'protagonist' means, whith antagonist meaning 'one who changes the plot'
The reason people give Kirito **** is that he's not just boring but every in series character want him
She didn't really 'defeat' Kylo Ren, not only did she escape being unable to save her friend, but Renny boy was deliberately wounding himself for his dark side
That still doesn't mean Mikasa is much better off honestly, as again, Mikasa was the only Asian character and was being depicted as near flawless
Errr, I'm not talking about KR's protagonist, not to mention he's not feminine, just either clumsy or cocky depending on his split personality
Jolyne deliberately set herself on fire and didn't even flinch while doing so. Hell, Japan complained she was too manly, so Jojo miiight nit be the best example
But Rey doesn't have typically masculine traits either iirc. And here's a fun fact which might explain why she's a woman in the story
Daisy Ridley
Ridley Scott
Alien
Sigourney Weaver
Ripley
Ridley Scott has outright said the only reason Ripley was female was because Sigourney Weaver was the best actor/actress for the role in his eyes, meaning Ripley could have been a male character aswell if the male actors were seen as more fitting

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I remember hating Black Star for the first few episodes, but now I appreciate him lol. He gets especially funny in the 2nd half.

Spoiler

Only character out of the core 7 I dislike is Maka...she's much better fleshed out in the manga and gives me Mary Sue vibes in the anime...please don't hurt me.

Spoiler

Yeah Im not sure I like Maka either with her"My dad is a piece of ****" attitude.
I actually like he dad more then her

 

[Deleted member]

The more I think of the Force Awakens the less I actually like it

I think it has less identity than the prequels. Regardless if it's better or not

I'm part of the minority that feels the Prequels were eons ahead of TFA, and I have many reasons for that.

While the prequels are certainly bad movies, they're not bad stories, they're just poorly executed.

TFA on the other hand lacks originality, and has no reason to really exist. There is no real "story" to tell with TFA.

Check this video out:

I think he does a great job at explaining the SW prequels. As for TFA being bad, well it seems many people are starting to realize what I said a year ago, so I have faith that in due time, most people will realize this without me needing to argue for it.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Spoiler

Yeah Im not sure I like Maka either with her"My dad is a piece of ****" attitude.
I actually like he dad more then her

Spoiler

I get cheating is wrong, but Spirit does all he can to apologize and relate to her. What does she do? Never forgive and spit in his face. Cheating is wrong, but at least he's fighting to improve and relate to his daughter. It's a gradual process, but he's fixing mistakes from his past. Maka should realize that.

Besides, ever since the exam episode, I've always thought Maka as a Mary Sue...she doesn't really have character flaws, nor impressive challenges in the anime. In the manga though, she is NOT a mary sue and is thankfully a good character in the manga, because she has 1.) character flaw(s) (she battles jealousy and being judgmental) and 2.) the challenges actually seem difficult and near unbeatable for her.

She isn't more offensive in the anime because Soul saves her character, easily.

@ManlySpirit VERY nice line about how stories should be character driven. Thank you for that. I totally agree.

 

[praline]

This dude at a Tim Hortons punched a ****ing cougar to save his dog, now if that ain't baller as **** I don't know what is.

 

[Kurri ★]

Time passing doesn't stop a Mary Sue from being a Mary Sue

Unless they were never a Mary Sue in the first place.

Anyways, TFA was great, and this review/discussion video gave me a better appreciation of the film

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Unless they were never a Mary Sue in the first place.

Anyways, TFA was great, and this review/discussion video gave me a better appreciation of the film

Except she was the exact definition of a mary sue

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Spoiler

I get cheating is wrong, but Spirit does all he can to apologize and relate to her. What does she do? Never forgive and spit in his face. Cheating is wrong, but at least he's fighting to improve and relate to his daughter. It's a gradual process, but he's fixing mistakes from his past. Maka should realize that.

Besides, ever since the exam episode, I've always thought Maka as a Mary Sue...she doesn't really have character flaws, nor impressive challenges in the anime. In the manga though, she is NOT a mary sue and is thankfully a good character in the manga, because she has 1.) character flaw(s) (she battles jealousy and being judgmental) and 2.) the challenges actually seem difficult and near unbeatable for her.

She isn't more offensive in the anime because Soul saves her character, easily.

@ManlySpirit VERY nice line about how stories should be character driven. Thank you for that. I totally agree.

Spoiler

All in all, while Spirit is dirty rock thats polished into a nice Gem, Maka is a dirty rock that cant be polished no matter what. You're right though. Makas ONLY saving grace is Soul in the anime

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities"

She learned how to force control someone without training faster than Goku learned the Kamehameha wave

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Copying and pasting a post from SRK about some cool UMvC3 stuff from its director Niitsuma:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

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Rough translations by Fubarduck:
- Nova: Had been strongly pushed by Marvel since Vanilla MVC3. "He's required for the next version" we were told.
- Ghost Rider: He was indeed popular/well-known. We saw that the "motorcycle issue", could be compromised by including it in his move set.
- Doctor Strange: Pushed super hard by Marvel. We thought we'd be able to make him unique as a "magic" user - he was really fun to work on.
- Rocket Raccoon:We were actually feeling out Squirrel Girl at the same time, but the Raccoon army beat out the Squirrel army in the office.
- Blade: Too many components that would've come from Dante I think...
- Spider-Woman: The flying and electricity would've been too similar to Trish...
- Psylocke: Well-known, good design, and having Strider as a rival would've been interesting - but the fans' voices just weren't loud enough.
- Spiral: From the previous title. Creating a fencer with 6 arms plus magic would've been crazy hard - please forgive me!
- Cloak and Dagger: Has a huge aesthetic impact, and if we treated it like a stand from Jojo's it would definitely be interesting! But in a mirror match w/assists, you'd have absolutely no idea what was happening on the screen. And I mean, double the work, no way!
- Multiple Man: Like I said - workload.

These makes it seem like Nova and Dr Strange are guaranteed to return, with high likelihood for Ghost Rider and Rocket.
The Psylocke comment is legitimately surprising. Assuming there's no licensing issues I'd say her chances went up a lot.
If Trish is NOT returning, then that means we actually could get Spider-Woman?
Sounds like a soft de-confirm for Blade, Spiral, and Multiple Man, though with the loss of assists maybe C&D still have a shot?

 

[Kurri ★]

"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities"

She learned how to force control someone without training faster than Goku learned the Kamehameha wave

She's just as much of a mary sue as luke is

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

She's just as much of a mary sue as luke is

I'd argue that Luke is slightly less of a Mary Sue because he had some training from 2 masters

 

[Kurri ★]

I'd argue that Luke is slightly less of a Mary Sue because he had some training from 2 masters

No, we're not playing that game. If Rey is a horrible character because "she's a Mary Sue" Luke being "less of one" isn't any better.

 

[Opossum]

Copying and pasting a post from SRK about some cool UMvC3 stuff from its director Niitsuma:



Rough translations by Fubarduck:
- Nova: Had been strongly pushed by Marvel since Vanilla MVC3. "He's required for the next version" we were told.
- Ghost Rider: He was indeed popular/well-known. We saw that the "motorcycle issue", could be compromised by including it in his move set.
- Doctor Strange: Pushed super hard by Marvel. We thought we'd be able to make him unique as a "magic" user - he was really fun to work on.
- Rocket Raccoon:We were actually feeling out Squirrel Girl at the same time, but the Raccoon army beat out the Squirrel army in the office.
- Blade: Too many components that would've come from Dante I think...
- Spider-Woman: The flying and electricity would've been too similar to Trish...
- Psylocke: Well-known, good design, and having Strider as a rival would've been interesting - but the fans' voices just weren't loud enough.
- Spiral: From the previous title. Creating a fencer with 6 arms plus magic would've been crazy hard - please forgive me!
- Cloak and Dagger: Has a huge aesthetic impact, and if we treated it like a stand from Jojo's it would definitely be interesting! But in a mirror match w/assists, you'd have absolutely no idea what was happening on the screen. And I mean, double the work, no way!
- Multiple Man: Like I said - workload.

These makes it seem like Nova and Dr Strange are guaranteed to return, with high likelihood for Ghost Rider and Rocket.
The Psylocke comment is legitimately surprising. Assuming there's no licensing issues I'd say her chances went up a lot.
If Trish is NOT returning, then that means we actually could get Spider-Woman?
Sounds like a soft de-confirm for Blade, Spiral, and Multiple Man, though with the loss of assists maybe C&D still have a shot?

I'd be so hyped if Cloak and Dagger got in.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No, we're not playing that game. If Rey is a horrible character because "she's a Mary Sue" Luke being "less of one" isn't any better.

I'm not disagreeing with you, you seem to be arguing with a strawman

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Since I see little use is keeping two Buzzwoles, should I trade or keep both?