Nintendo's First Samurai: Takamaru for SSB4 (Final Request: Ask the US HW devs to add Takamaru)

[Souldin]

I am not. Lucina is a clone. There was no need for her especially when she's a clone. I'd like her a bit more if she was unique, but I never liked her. All I'm saying is that rather than choose a unique character to add, he added a clone and said no to the unique one, that's all I'm saying.

He never said no to the unique one over the clone character. Sakurai has to say no to plenty of unique characters for one reason or another; and either find a way to still include them in the game or simply not have them there.

Again, Lucina was not chosen over Takamaru. Lucina was a planned skin who was given her own slot because of Sakurai's design philosophies regarding what defines a separate character and what defines something as suitable for a skin; a matter I agree with him on to a degree, though ultimately more because I despise the very idea of relegating separate characters as skin for other people.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

He never said no to the unique one over the clone character. Sakurai has to say no to plenty of unique characters for one reason or another; and either find a way to still include them in the game or simply not have them there.

Again, Lucina was not chosen over Takamaru. Lucina was a planned skin who was given her own slot because of Sakurai's design philosophies regarding what defines a separate character and what defines something as suitable for a skin; a matter I agree with him on to a degree, though ultimately more because I despise the very idea of relegating separate characters as skin for other people.

I also did not say he chose her over Takamaru. He could've said yes to both and done both BUT he didn't. He chose Lucina to do while also saying no to Takamaru. Both could've been implanted; I'm upset because he implanted one who is a clone but did not implement a unique one.

 

[Souldin]

I also did not say he chose her over Takamaru. He could've said yes to both and done both BUT he didn't. He chose Lucina to do while also saying no to Takamaru. Both could've been implanted; I'm upset because he implanted one who is a clone but did not implement a unique one.

An again, this is far from the first time he has to do this. There have been many, many characters who could of had a unique move-set but were turned down for one reason or another. Takamaru is hardly the first.

I'd even say that given enough effort, just about any character could have a unique move-set, even Lucina for instance whose sadly only ended up a clone due to the circumstances (though that is still better off than being just an alternative skin).

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Just to make the situation less violent, allow me to lighten up the mood with the first Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS manga with Takamaru.

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=45009667

As you can see, the author is conveying that he might have a promotion similar to Little Mac in "the next round" and it pokes fun at the fact that most sword based Assist Trophies have ponytails so far. It also goes to show that Pixiv artists are positive about this unlike the Eastern Miiverse's raging period.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm starting to blame Lucina for taking Takamaru's spot in this thread.
She was an accident. It's as if Dr.Mario was going to be an alt. but situation changed somewhere, and Sakurai decided that fireballs wouldn't look good on him, therefore he gave Dr.Mario his own slot and made him throw capsules, and switched flames for electricity.

I am no more happy than some people that Takamaru isn't playable. I really did not see me NOT playing as Takamaru in SSB4. But this is sadly the reality. The best I can do is admit that Assist Trophy isn't so bad.
What we must do is overhype (in the good way) anything Nintendo does with Taka's franchise so it isn't forgotten before it's even re-released worldwide.

Let's make it so Takamaru isn't another post-Brawl Saki Amamiya (who ultimately next to nobody cared about) or worse, let's not allow him to become another Mike Jones where nearly nobody knows who he is or cares about him or his series.

Perhaps, if the planets align, we might be seeing another SSB sooner than we expect.

 

[Reila]

Are people seriously blaming Lucina for Takamaru not being playable? Holy ****.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Are people seriously blaming Lucina for Takamaru not being playable? Holy ****.

Ikr? Though I'm laughing more at dat Giselle avatar than the obvious Lucina haters.

Like I said guys, enough with the Lucina hate because it's not going to make anything better. Just be happy that he's at least more likely to be added next time.

I am no more happy than some people that Takamaru isn't playable. I really did not see me NOT playing as Takamaru in SSB4. But this is sadly the reality. The best I can do is admit that Assist Trophy isn't so bad.
What we must do is overhype (in the good way) anything Nintendo does with Taka's franchise so it isn't forgotten before it's even re-released worldwide.

Let's make it so Takamaru isn't another post-Brawl Saki Amamiya (who ultimately next to nobody cared about) or worse, let's not allow him to become another Mike Jones where nearly nobody knows who he is or cares about him or his series.

Perhaps, if the planets align, we might be seeing another SSB sooner than we expect.

I'll agree with this ONLY if the next Smash doesn't come out too soon like Crapcom's Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game. It would be pretty damn awful if it were to come out that soon.

 

[Reila]

Ikr? Though I'm laughing more at dat Giselle avatar than the obvious Lucina haters.

Giselle is amazing <3

 

[RidleyDX]

Giselle is amazing <3

 

[Reila]

That is the best part.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I can see why they're annoyed, but it's quite long-shot to blame Lucy for takin' Takamaru's place. She basically got Doc'd...

EDIT: OMG that artist I love... Pixiv-artist seem to do better justice to this team than we do.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well it was certainly a punch in the gut to see the news after being gone for a few days.
I only have two serious contenders left in the race.
And my DLC wishlist keeps growing...

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Well it was certainly a punch in the gut to see the news after being gone for a few days.
I only have two serious contenders left in the race.
And my DLC wishlist keeps growing...

I seriously doubt that Sakurai would even promote a character from an Assist to Fighter via DLC after the decision had been made. Unless you can think of the most appropriate character that could replace and have the same function as his AT model.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I seriously doubt that Sakurai would even promote a character from an Assist to Fighter via DLC after the decision had been made. Unless you can think of the most appropriate character that could replace and have the same function as his AT model.

It's simple enough if he decides to upgrade Takamaru.

Just remove the assist trophy completely.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Lucina was added as a filler clone, and honestly if Sakurai decided to pick Takamaru for filler over Lucina, he would be a semi-clone based on Keybladeguy's logic.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

It's simple enough if he decides to upgrade Takamaru.

Just remove the assist trophy completely.

Then that will a require a ton of fan requests in order or that to happen. They could at least touch up to model to look more high quality and give him a great moveset for the magic to happen. I would like the old man to actually do such a thing for DLC, though it will take more than just a simple mind change in order for it to work.

Now that you've mentioned it, I'll see how the Chrom movementt is going now.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Then that will a require a ton of fan requests in order or that to happen. They could at least touch up to model to look more high quality and give him a great moveset for the magic to happen. I would like the old man to actually do such a thing for DLC, though it will take more than just a simple mind change in order for it to work.

Now that you've mentioned it, I'll see how the Chrom movementt is going now.

Well if Chrom of all characters can get a DLC movement, I don't see how Takamaru can't.

It's simple enough to remove an assist trophy, but how do they expect Robin's final smash to change? Tharja

Still, DLC is the absolute best thing to support, lest we wait a decade for the Super Wii U Entertainment System and Smash 5.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Well if Chrom of all characters can get a DLC movement, I don't see how Takamaru can't.

It's simple enough to remove an assist trophy, but how do they expect Robin's final smash to change? Tharja

Still, DLC is the absolute best thing to support, lest we wait a decade for the Super Wii U Entertainment System and Smash 5.

Dat name, so Nintendo. While I would like to wait patiently for the next game, just the idea of removing an Assist and making them a DLC fighter through fan demand interests me. In order for such a movement to happen, we are going to need more than juts ourselves in order for it to actually work. After seeing how things went for Opossum's group, we need those who are good at art and web design to actually get people interested. A good time to start would be after Murasame Castle launches in America next week where more people should be aware of his existence or enjoy the game.

So guys, do you think it's actually worth starting a DLC movement for Takamaru?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Dat name, so Nintendo. While I would like to wait patiently for the next game, just the idea of removing an Assist and making them a DLC fighter through fan demand interests me. In order for such a movement to happen, we are going to need more than juts ourselves in order for it to actually work. After seeing how things went for Opossum's group, we need those who are good at art and web design to actually get people interested. A good time to start would be after Murasame Castle launches in America next week where more people should be aware of his existence or enjoy the game.

So guys, do you think it's actually worth starting a DLC movement for Takamaru?

Oops, let me fix that. Super Wii U Entertainment System 64.

Much better.

Art? I'm up for that, I'm not the best but I'll certainly give my best effort. Takamaru just jumped into second place for my wanted DLC characters, bumped Lip right down to third. I won't give my full attention to anyone until Rayman makes the jump, however.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Oops, let me fix that. Super Wii U Entertainment System 64.

Much better.

Art? I'm up for that, I'm not the best but I'll certainly give my best effort. Takamaru just jumped into second place for my wanted DLC characters, bumped Lip right down to third. I won't give my full attention to anyone until Rayman makes the jump, however.

Sure, which it's why it's best to see at least one DLC movement become successful before we start one for the samurai. I frequent Twitter and Tumblr alot, so making a page for those wouldn't be a problem for me at all. And I could have all the supporters of my Takamaru for Smash page (which has about 178 followers) be aware of the movement and have them interested in it though.

As for other stuff, I don't really do well when it comes to making a wordpress page and my art's subpar at beast (only good with non-human characters with pencil/pen). But I do like you enthusiasm on the idea and we should tell Sakurai whether he likes it or not that DLC should be main stream for all Smash games (starting with this one of course).

 

[ThatShadowLink]

My friend who restored the Takamaru artwork would probably be up for doing some art. He's involved in a big art collab at the moment, but he'll probably be down for it later in August.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

My friend who restored the Takamaru artwork would probably be up for doing some art. He's involved in a big art collab at the moment, but he'll probably be down for it later in August.

Thanks. It will do for now since we have to wait until the VC game gains some traction in the West a few weeks after its release anyway. We'll be up for it whenever anyone else interested joins in for the pitch.

 

[Glaciacott]

Gotta be honest, I feel also that if he's an AT then that's his definitive role in the game whether or not there's DLC.

Like, we seriously need to get over using DLC as a way to delay the thought that a character already in the game is not playable. You know, just accept things and realize Takamaru has indeed moved up and in a future Smash has a really solid chance. Let it go.

I've been wanting to say the same thing to the Chrom fans but I'm just too scared about the inevitable flame war that might erupt.

 

[Deleted member]

a single clone character takes about a sixth the work of a full character (going by Melee's six clones over Dedede)

....which was not what happened at all.

What cednym said is that Sakurai stated that he could have finished Dedede in the time that it took to make the 6 clones, not that he scrapped Dedede for the 6 clones.
Dedede was only a back-up plan for if Sakurai couldn't get Intelligent System's approval for Marth.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Gotta be honest, I feel also that if he's an AT then that's his definitive role in the game whether or not there's DLC.

Like, we seriously need to get over using DLC as a way to delay the thought that a character already in the game is not playable. You know, just accept things and realize Takamaru has indeed moved up and in a future Smash has a really solid chance. Let it go.

I've been wanting to say the same thing to the Chrom fans but I'm just too scared about the inevitable flame war that might erupt.

For now, we are considering it as opposed to jumping right into it for nothing. Which is why I've told him that we need to see how other moments are doing first before going into them. I'd just give the Chrom supporters two months to start some real movement happens and will not actually do it until I see at them at least have more than 500 supporters for the movement.

Either way, I'm perfectly fine with what role he has for now and will actually have the patience to wait for the next game to happen. I could do something different like getting some potential costumers interested in buying Murasame Castle during next month (obviously to help sales).

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Let's be honest here, he WILL get the Mac treatment and become a character for the Wii W (see that I did there, Double-U and Wii U...)
As a DLC... Maybe.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm up for supporting the movement. Heck, I could do some art.

But I've pretty much accepted Takamaru's fate in SSB4 is final. Even if he were to be promoted from AT, there's no suitable replacement for the projectiles he throws. At least no 1st/2nd party ones. He's just too unique.

I could really use another character reveal that I like this week..

 

[JamesDNaux]

The entire point of DLC is to add or change something that isn't in the final game. There's nothing wrong with Takamaru being removed as an assist and added as a fighter. Sure, Sakurai decided the roster a long time ago, but that doesn't mean that things can't change later on, look at Mr. Needlemouse jumping in at the very end of Brawl's development and kicking three characters out.

That doesn't need to happen this time, DLC wasn't really a feasible thing with Brawl, but nowadays it's a normal and expected thing. Hell, Super Luigi U is an entire game that was added as DLC to New Super Mario U, so Nintendo isn't as behind as people think.

If enough people support it, then we can make things happen. I would rather take action than say "better luck next time."

 

[shinhed-echi]

Don't get me wrong. I'll follow, I'm just cautiously optimistic.
I can back this movement a 100%. Regardless of how Chrom fans are doing.

Maybe I could learn a thing or two so that someday I get to bring back another retro character from the grave.
So yeah, count me in.

 

[Glaciacott]

The entire point of DLC is to add or change something that isn't in the final game. There's nothing wrong with Takamaru being removed as an assist and added as a fighter. Sure, Sakurai decided the roster a long time ago, but that doesn't mean that things can't change later on, look at Mr. Needlemouse jumping in at the very end of Brawl's development and kicking three characters out.

That doesn't need to happen this time, DLC wasn't really a feasible thing with Brawl, but nowadays it's a normal and expected thing. Hell, Super Luigi U is an entire game that was added as DLC to New Super Mario U, so Nintendo isn't as behind as people think.

If enough people support it, then we can make things happen. I would rather take action than say "better luck next time."

OK, floodgate opened, rant incoming.

Well, yes, but Mr. Needlemouse wasn't announced in the game as a final smash or assist trophy before hand.
Also, Super Luigi is completely irrelevant. Like, the ****, that's a completely alternate game given by nintendo as an extra, what's that got to do with you guys wanting to ask Sakurai to revert a character from Assist Trophy to make him a full playable character requiring balancing and debugging?
Next thing you'll tell me that Yacht Club giving us extra content over time is the same thing as this.

Now, bottom line is this: the character is in the game, and my problem with this attitude is that every single supporter of every character is doing it now. When Brawl was announced, Lyn was my top wanted, and bam! Assist Trophy and Ike. Ok, sure, it is what it is and you move on. It ended. That was it. OVER. DONE.

Now with DLC people are just refusing to let go. And sure, it sounds like an interesting attitude to take, the whole not giving up and taking action, you know, let's be heroes for our cause because hard work pays off and we'll show them our strength! ... but honestly? From where I am it doesn't seem quite like that, it just seems like sheer denial. It seems like people refusing to accept reality. It feels like a tantrum, making noise and being loud until you get your way. It feels like someone demanding for their chicken to be given feathers and a beak because they prefer the chicken as a pet instead of a meal, but here's the thing son, that chicken has been cooked already.

And what bothers me most, is that it means that even with the roster finalized and settled, people will keep on going because DLC. I personally don't like that ... this man Sakurai is working his tendons off trying to deliver and it's IMPOSSIBLE he can please every fandom out there. And yet he tries, but instead every fandom will keep on going with DLC campaigns and movements and ongoing request even after the character already got an appearance in the game. And think about it ... they change one character from assist to DLC, that'd just open the gateway to hell, because hey, why not Waluigi? Why not Starfy? Why not Skull Kid? The whole idea of an assist trophy was that a character that didn't have a chance to be playable would still be included ... you know, how about being grateful for that? Man, Takamaru looks awesome and he's rocking a huge recognition and a huge acknowledgement. Can't we be thankful that Sakurai actually has him in the game? Especially since it's a retro character not everyone knows about with only one actual game in his name and a bunch of cameos. For someone like Takamaru, this is a HUGE deal. What's more, his unveil screams of caring, it screams to the fact they did their research on him and treated him with respect.

I think it's more productive to appreciate what we get and support the game itself when it comes out (goes for both Smash and Nazo no Murasame Jo) than to stick to an aspect of the game that's already been decided and insist on change. Sure, make art, have fansites, but instead of devoting yourself to this ... why not a campaign to revitalize the franchise? Why not a campaign to get people to buy the game so Nintendo sees it's a character worth keeping around? That way you're working with reality instead of fighting it.

And can things change? Sure, but that's just like me saying I can repurpose my dresser so it functions instead as a bunk bed. It CAN happen, but it's more work than it's necessary and it's better to accept it was intended to be a dresser. It's not practical and it shouldn't happen. Because then you're asking for an endless game since you KNOW people will keep on asking for more. DLC is supposed to be a way for companies to give us bonus content, not for us to keep on demanding more and more and more just because we can, and hey, they probably can too! Like, they just made him an AT but I'm sure they'd be willing to undo all that work and then do exponentially more work to include him because some people just keep on wanting more!

And no, technically I shouldn't complain so much because it's entirely your problem and your time ... but as a fan of Sakurai's work it just really bothers me that even after the game is delivered people will keep on going with demands just because DLC can happen. And it's not just you guys and I actually LIKE Takamaru, but this attitude becoming the norm is a huge pet peeve of mine. I think fans should have more class than to keep asking and demanding.

And if you really really can't let it go, why not bombard the project m site with votes for a playable Takamaru? They were able to help all the people who couldn't let Roy go, I'm sure they could have Takamaru in the game with enough support. At least, when it comes to Lyn that's the boat I'm climbing on.

end rant.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

OK, floodgate opened, rant incoming.

Well, yes, but Mr. Needlemouse wasn't announced in the game as a final smash or assist trophy before hand.
Also, Super Luigi is completely irrelevant. Like, the ****, that's a completely alternate game given by nintendo as an extra, what's that got to do with you guys wanting to ask Sakurai to revert a character from Assist Trophy to make him a full playable character requiring balancing and debugging?
Next thing you'll tell me that Yacht Club giving us extra content over time is the same thing as this.

Now, bottom line is this: the character is in the game, and my problem with this attitude is that every single supporter of every character is doing it now. When Brawl was announced, Lyn was my top wanted, and bam! Assist Trophy and Ike. Ok, sure, it is what it is and you move on. It ended. That was it. OVER. DONE.

Now with DLC people are just refusing to let go. And sure, it sounds like an interesting attitude to take, the whole not giving up and taking action, you know, let's be heroes for our cause because hard work pays off and we'll show them our strength! ... but honestly? From where I am it doesn't seem quite like that, it just seems like sheer denial. It seems like people refusing to accept reality. It feels like a tantrum, making noise and being loud until you get your way. It feels like someone demanding for their chicken to be given feathers and a beak because they prefer the chicken as a pet instead of a meal, but here's the thing son, that chicken has been cooked already.

And what bothers me most, is that it means that even with the roster finalized and settled, people will keep on going because DLC. I personally don't like that ... this man Sakurai is working his tendons off trying to deliver and it's IMPOSSIBLE he can please every fandom out there. And yet he tries, but instead every fandom will keep on going with DLC campaigns and movements and ongoing request even after the character already got an appearance in the game. And think about it ... they change one character from assist to DLC, that'd just open the gateway to hell, because hey, why not Waluigi? Why not Starfy? Why not Skull Kid? The whole idea of an assist trophy was that a character that didn't have a chance to be playable would still be included ... you know, how about being grateful for that? Man, Takamaru looks awesome and he's rocking a huge recognition and a huge acknowledgement. Can't we be thankful that Sakurai actually has him in the game? Especially since it's a retro character not everyone knows about with only one actual game in his name and a bunch of cameos. For someone like Takamaru, this is a HUGE deal. What's more, his unveil screams of caring, it screams to the fact they did their research on him and treated him with respect.

I think it's more productive to appreciate what we get and support the game itself when it comes out (goes for both Smash and Nazo no Murasame Jo) than to stick to an aspect of the game that's already been decided and insist on change. Sure, make art, have fansites, but instead of devoting yourself to this ... why not a campaign to revitalize the franchise? Why not a campaign to get people to buy the game so Nintendo sees it's a character worth keeping around? That way you're working with reality instead of fighting it.

And can things change? Sure, but that's just like me saying I can repurpose my dresser so it functions instead as a bunk bed. It CAN happen, but it's more work than it's necessary and it's better to accept it was intended to be a dresser. It's not practical and it shouldn't happen. Because then you're asking for an endless game since you KNOW people will keep on asking for more. DLC is supposed to be a way for companies to give us bonus content, not for us to keep on demanding more and more and more just because we can, and hey, they probably can too! Like, they just made him an AT but I'm sure they'd be willing to undo all that work and then do exponentially more work to include him because some people just keep on wanting more!

And no, technically I shouldn't complain so much because it's entirely your problem and your time ... but as a fan of Sakurai's work it just really bothers me that even after the game is delivered people will keep on going with demands just because DLC can happen. And it's not just you guys and I actually LIKE Takamaru, but this attitude becoming the norm is a huge pet peeve of mine. I think fans should have more class than to keep asking and demanding.

And if you really really can't let it go, why not bombard the project m site with votes for a playable Takamaru? They were able to help all the people who couldn't let Roy go, I'm sure they could have Takamaru in the game with enough support. At least, when it comes to Lyn that's the boat I'm climbing on.

end rant.

You know, that possibly the most realistic thing for us to do anyway. Instead of focusing on DLC, we should interest people more in buying the game since it's so close to release and Nintendo are expecting something huge out of this. After thinking about what @ bksbestbwoy had said a few days ago, we do need to educate some Westerners into buying this game since they are knowledgeably ignorant to the point of labeling this as a "boring Zelda clone". The game itself MAY share the same engine, but it is unique in it's own way in terms of setting, gameplay, plot, and soundtracks. That's the thing I've been seeing of the responses so far (especially on YouTube) and it saddens me that people think a game that's too similar to the overrated Legend of Zelda is considered a waste of money or an awful game. No matter why Nintendo themselves never had localizes this game in the past other than it being too hard or too Asian.

I know some of you are thinking about DLC movements and all, but we definitely need to abort that idea and focus on helping Murasame Castle sell well. Hell, maybe Nintendo will actually consider expanding the franchise themselves if the game has the right about of customers to purchases it like what happened with Sin & Punishment during the Wii Era. For those of you who are good at art and what not, we'll need your help for something important like making the series relevant instead of wasting our time for a situation that may kill Sakurai slowly. After all, I've been thinking about doing such a thing for the past few days and you had successfully convinced me to do such a thing. While he may be just an Assist Trophy in Smash for now, but that still doesn't mean that we can do something about filling in on why this game will be worth the purchase to American gamers young and old.

Now, who's with me and bksbestbwoy on this "even better operation"?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Holy mother of rants being directed at me, Batman.

Well, yes, but Mr. Needlemouse wasn't announced in the game as a final smash or assist trophy before hand.
Also, Super Luigi is completely irrelevant. Like, the ****, that's a completely alternate game given by nintendo as an extra, what's that got to do with you guys wanting to ask Sakurai to revert a character from Assist Trophy to make him a full playable character requiring balancing and debugging?
Next thing you'll tell me that Yacht Club giving us extra content over time is the same thing as this.

The Sonic comparison was meant to show that development can change despite what people think. Even so, Sonic may not have been in the game at all, but Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario all have coding that implies they were intended to be playable. Particularly Mewtwo, who was nearly finished. If he can decide to remove three nearly finished characters just to add one character once he was almost done with the game, why could he not remove an assist trophy and add a character after finishing?

And I mentioned Super Luigi U because (not pointing at you) most people think Nintendo are so backwards that they don't even know what DLC is. No need to get so testy.

Now, bottom line is this: the character is in the game, and my problem with this attitude is that every single supporter of every character is doing it now. When Brawl was announced, Lyn was my top wanted, and bam! Assist Trophy and Ike. Ok, sure, it is what it is and you move on. It ended. That was it. OVER. DONE.

Alright, that's how you do things and I respect that, just like you should respect that others go about things differently.

Now with DLC people are just refusing to let go. And sure, it sounds like an interesting attitude to take, the whole not giving up and taking action, you know, let's be heroes for our cause because hard work pays off and we'll show them our strength! ... but honestly? From where I am it doesn't seem quite like that, it just seems like sheer denial. It seems like people refusing to accept reality. It feels like a tantrum, making noise and being loud until you get your way. It feels like someone demanding for their chicken to be given feathers and a beak because they prefer the chicken as a pet instead of a meal, but here's the thing son, that chicken has been cooked already.

I don't know where you've been that you see people throwing a tantrum. I respect Sakurai and the work he does, and (most of the time) I respect his decisions. I don't see any denial, I know that he's an assist trophy, there's no denying that, but change can be made, Little Mac attests to that.

And what bothers me most, is that it means that even with the roster finalized and settled, people will keep on going because DLC. I personally don't like that ... this man Sakurai is working his tendons off trying to deliver and it's IMPOSSIBLE he can please every fandom out there. And yet he tries, but instead every fandom will keep on going with DLC campaigns and movements and ongoing request even after the character already got an appearance in the game. And think about it ... they change one character from assist to DLC, that'd just open the gateway to hell, because hey, why not Waluigi? Why not Starfy? Why not Skull Kid? The whole idea of an assist trophy was that a character that didn't have a chance to be playable would still be included ... you know, how about being grateful for that? Man, Takamaru looks awesome and he's rocking a huge recognition and a huge acknowledgement. Can't we be thankful that Sakurai actually has him in the game? Especially since it's a retro character not everyone knows about with only one actual game in his name and a bunch of cameos. For someone like Takamaru, this is a HUGE deal. What's more, his unveil screams of caring, it screams to the fact they did their research on him and treated him with respect.

Sakurai won't be around forever, do you expect Smash to just stop once he does? With the hundreds of people on the team provided by Namco, they don't need Sakurai to make DLC. At the least, they would ask for his approval of certain characters before working on it, I'm sure it wouldn't kill his hands to give a "yes" or "no." I don't know if you're singling out me (though I would assume, as you quoted my post) or just talking in general, but I certainly am thankful that Takamaru is in. But with that kind of talk, why are we even here? Oh, let's just let Sakurai do his thing and not bother at all, it's not like we're the one's who will end up spending money to buy these games. Hell, Pit was fine as just a trophy in Melee, he didn't need to be in Brawl, and Little Mac was fine as an assist in Brawl, he doesn't need to be in Smash 4, do you see how far we can go with this?

I think it's more productive to appreciate what we get and support the game itself when it comes out (goes for both Smash and Nazo no Murasame Jo) than to stick to an aspect of the game that's already been decided and insist on change. Sure, make art, have fansites, but instead of devoting yourself to this ... why not a campaign to revitalize the franchise? Why not a campaign to get people to buy the game so Nintendo sees it's a character worth keeping around? That way you're working with reality instead of fighting it.

Ideally we would support both Takamaru in Smash, and his franchise being revitalized. In fact, I want King K. Rool and Lip in Smash for a similar reason, I want them to return to their respective franchises.

And can things change? Sure, but that's just like me saying I can repurpose my dresser so it functions instead as a bunk bed. It CAN happen, but it's more work than it's necessary and it's better to accept it was intended to be a dresser. It's not practical and it shouldn't happen. Because then you're asking for an endless game since you KNOW people will keep on asking for more. DLC is supposed to be a way for companies to give us bonus content, not for us to keep on demanding more and more and more just because we can, and hey, they probably can too! Like, they just made him an AT but I'm sure they'd be willing to undo all that work and then do exponentially more work to include him because some people just keep on wanting more!

Ok, you tossed aside my Super Luigi U comparison and yet you bring up a chicken and a dresser, really? More on point, actually, you strengthened my point, the purpose of DLC is for more. Don't try to make us out like some greedy blokes, we may as well not even bother with DLC.

And no, technically I shouldn't complain so much because it's entirely your problem and your time ... but as a fan of Sakurai's work it just really bothers me that even after the game is delivered people will keep on going with demands just because DLC can happen. And it's not just you guys and I actually LIKE Takamaru, but this attitude becoming the norm is a huge pet peeve of mine. I think fans should have more class than to keep asking and demanding.

This "holier than thou" attitude can really rub people the wrong way as well, y'know? I respect Sakurai as much as anyone else would, and I think the guy should take a nice long break once he's done. There's no reason to get upset, mate.

And if you really really can't let it go, why not bombard the project m site with votes for a playable Takamaru? They were able to help all the people who couldn't let Roy go, I'm sure they could have Takamaru in the game with enough support. At least, when it comes to Lyn that's the boat I'm climbing on.

On a more personal note, I don't care about Project M at all, anyone else that wants to go about that can have a day with it.

Peace man, peace, you're up in arms over nothing.

 

[Glaciacott]

Holy mother of rants being directed at me, Batman.

I'm edgy today, have a lot of time on my hands, and you seem to not have gotten the point: bring it.

The Sonic comparison was meant to show that development can change despite what people think. Even so, Sonic may not have been in the game at all, but Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario all have coding that implies they were intended to be playable. Particularly Mewtwo, who was nearly finished. If he can decide to remove three nearly finished characters just to add one character once he was almost done with the game, why could he not remove an assist trophy and add a character after finishing?

All those characters never appeared in the game once their fate was sealed. In this case it's more than a situation of having him change his mind, it's asking the development staff to throw away work they did to re-start a much more tenuous task just because you couldn't deal with it (general you btw, I'm addressing the mentality as a whole ... I don't need to make it personal, I go straight for the gut of the argument.)

And I mentioned Super Luigi U because (not pointing at you) most people think Nintendo are so backwards that they don't even know what DLC is. No need to get so testy.

Pet peeve I hadn't gotten to express before, yes need. Also, if that was the point then articulate "super luigi shows that nintendo does know about DLC!" Then it would make more sense.

Alright, that's how you do things and I respect that, just like you should respect that others go about things differently.
I don't know where you've been that you see people throwing a tantrum. I respect Sakurai and the work he does, and (most of the time) I respect his decisions. I don't see any denial, I know that he's an assist trophy, there's no denying that, but change can be made, Little Mac attests to that.

Little Mac did get the promotion ... an iteration of the game later. That's a poor comparison.
Respecting someone's work means accepting it and seeing the value in their decisions, not asking them to flip flop to fit your desire. The whole "DLC can change this!" mentality is, as I see it, disrespecting the quality of his decisions and putting into question the whole decision process behind the roster. Not to mention being inconsiderate of the sheer amount of time it takes to make these games, time which you're asking them to literally throw away.

Sakurai won't be around forever, do you expect Smash to just stop once he does? With the hundreds of people on the team provided by Namco, they don't need Sakurai to make DLC. At the least, they would ask for his approval of certain characters before working on it, I'm sure it wouldn't kill his hands to give a "yes" or "no." I don't know if you're singling out me (though I would assume, as you quoted my post) or just talking in general, but I certainly am thankful that Takamaru is in. But with that kind of talk, why are we even here? Oh, let's just let Sakurai do his thing and not bother at all, it's not like we're the one's who will end up spending money to buy these games. Hell, Pit was fine as just a trophy in Melee, he didn't need to be in Brawl, and Little Mac was fine as an assist in Brawl, he doesn't need to be in Smash 4, do you see how far we can go with this?

Again, Pit's growth from trophy to playable character happened an iteration of the game later.
You're not asking for Takamaru to be considered for the next smash, you're asking for them to get rid of the work they did on the assist trophy and make him a character instead. Completely different story. Sakurai or not.

Ideally we would support both Takamaru in Smash, and his franchise being revitalized. In fact, I want King K. Rool and Lip in Smash for a similar reason, I want them to return to their respective franchises.

Except Takamaru in Smash was sadly already deconfirmed. The K. Rool campaigning makes sense because we still have no knowledge of his fate and if he wasn't considered for the game he could qualify for DLC. With Takamaru we know he was considered and added as an AT. That story is over.

Ok, you tossed aside my Super Luigi U comparison and yet you bring up a chicken and a dresser, really?

They're called analogies, and they make a lot more sense than your super luigi argument, imo.

More on point, actually, you strengthened my point, the purpose of DLC is for more. Don't try to make us out like some greedy blokes, we may as well not even bother with DLC.

Oh, be greedy or w.e., that's not my problem. My problem, again, is the fact the character was already deconfirmed and people still insist on it. Not so much greedy as just overall lacking in class and honor of any sort.
And how did it strengthen your point? I cannot begin to grasp how you concluded that.

This "holier than thou" attitude can really rub people the wrong way as well, y'know?

I respect Sakurai as much as anyone else would, and I think the guy should take a nice long break once he's done. There's no reason to get upset, mate.

On a more personal note, I don't care about Project M at all, anyone else that wants to go about that can have a day with it.

Peace man, peace, you're up in arms over nothing.

Just because I voice my opinion strongly doesn't mean I'm all up in war or getting upset. You proposed something and I strongly disagreed so I decided to voice my opinion. Your previous response wasn't satisfactory, so I decided to go to town on that. The next response isn't satisfactory, so I'm going to town on it now.

It's an argument, and that's how they go, and this is how I do it. I'm satisfied with my responses and am still pretty certain I have a reasonable point of view.
Don't agree with it? At least have enough respect to treat it like a valuable opinion and disagree, instead of acting like it's someone's hissy fit.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Now now, there's no need to get messy in here. You two wouldn't want to upset the mods, wouldn't you?

 

[Glaciacott]

how is it messy? It's even on topic ...

Sigh, you know what, forget it. Some things you just can't have a discussion about I guess.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Christ bloke, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm trying to have a civilized discussion. You targeted me in the first place, I have no reason to sit here and make this big of a fuss about a game. I call it as I see it, a fit is a fit. Or rather, a rant.

I'm edgy today, have a lot of time on my hands, and you seem to not have gotten the point: bring it.

Again, I'm not arguing with anyone, if you're "edgy" then that's your issue.

All those characters never appeared in the game once their fate was sealed. In this case it's more than a situation of having him change his mind, it's asking the development staff to throw away work they did to re-start a much more tenuous task just because you couldn't deal with it (general you btw, I'm addressing the mentality as a whole ... I don't need to make it personal, I go straight for the gut of the argument.)

Talk about missing the point.
Toss away their work on Takamaru? You don't say, just like they tossed away the work on three playable characters, which take far more effort to make than a simple assist trophy? No, they were not in the final game, but they did work on them.

Pet peeve I hadn't gotten to express before, yes need. Also, if that was the point then articulate "super luigi shows that nintendo does know about DLC!" Then it would make more sense.

Please excuse me for not articulating myself in your specific dialect so that you understand correctly, it made sense to me.

Little Mac did get the promotion ... an iteration of the game later. That's a poor comparison.
Respecting someone's work means accepting it and seeing the value in their decisions, not asking them to flip flop to fit your desire. The whole "DLC can change this!" mentality is, as I see it, disrespecting the quality of his decisions and putting into question the whole decision process behind the roster. Not to mention being inconsiderate of the sheer amount of time it takes to make these games, time which you're asking them to literally throw away.

As I said, DLC was not feasible for Brawl, DLC is now a thing that is feasible, now that's a poor comparison.

You can respect someone's work and be a critic at the same time, that's how the 'produce -> consumer' relationship works, when you're making a product that you expect people to buy, you'd do best to listen to feedback. Games can be a form of art in ways, but it's not like I'm looking at a painting in a museum, this is a product that I spend money on. I'm not being inconsiderate, they didn't spend all of their development time on Takamaru's assist trophy. I'm not asking the construction crew to tear the house down, I'm asking them to add a closet to a room, so to speak. You're taking things to the extreme when they aren't.

Again, Pit's growth from trophy to playable character happened an iteration of the game later.
You're not asking for Takamaru to be considered for the next smash, you're asking for them to get rid of the work they did on the assist trophy and make him a character instead. Completely different story. Sakurai or not.

As technology grows, different things are made possible. The GameCube and the Wii did not have DLC, the Wii U does, and that's a point that I believe you to be missing. Yes, Mac became playable in the next game, but there was the conscious decision of "people really wanted him to be playable, perhaps we should make that happen now," which would possibly happen again with Takamaru in the next game. However, this time there's the alternate option of DLC, I'm not saying Sakurai needs to churn it out as soon as the game comes out, but maybe say he decides to do a poll to see the top three characters people want added as DLC. It's just the best thing to do for supporters to get together on the idea beforehand, so Takamaru doesn't end up at the bottom of such a poll. Mind you, this is all speculatively speaking.

Except Takamaru in Smash was sadly already deconfirmed. The K. Rool campaigning makes sense because we still have no knowledge of his fate and if he wasn't considered for the game he could qualify for DLC. With Takamaru we know he was considered and added as an AT. That story is over.

I brought up K. Rool because I want to see him return to his franchise, which is what was singled out in the quote. If King K. Rool gets in Smash, the chances of him joining his own franchise goes up. If Takamaru were playable, he could get the exact same treatment as Pit got with Brawl and Uprising. I was only making a comparison.

Oh, be greedy or w.e., that's not my problem. My problem, again, is the fact the character was already deconfirmed and people still insist on it. Not so much greedy as just overall lacking in class and honor of any sort.
And how did it strengthen your point? I cannot begin to grasp how you concluded that.

Apparently we can't ask for more with our DLC, which is what DLC was made for, which was my point.
I'm not insisting on anything, I'm not saying "oh Sakurai, stop what your doing and delay development to change Takamaru to a playable character!" I'm saying "hey Sakurai, the game is great and I love that Takamaru is there at all, but if the possibility ever comes up, he'd be a great candidate to make the jump to playable in DLC." The words you have, keep them from my mouth.

Just because I voice my opinion strongly doesn't mean I'm all up in war or getting upset. You proposed something and I strongly disagreed so I decided to voice my opinion. Your previous response wasn't satisfactory, so I decided to go to town on that. The next response isn't satisfactory, so I'm going to town on it now.

Well yeah, I can voice my opinion just as much as you can. The general tone I'm getting is one from an upset person, however.
Particularly considering that you're "edgy," apparently.

It's an argument, and that's how they go, and this is how I do it. I'm satisfied with my responses and am still pretty certain I have a reasonable point of view.
Don't agree with it? At least have enough respect to treat it like a valuable opinion and disagree, instead of acting like it's someone's hissy fit.

I do have respect for your opinion, but you apparently don't respect mine, and that's where the problem lies. I'm not going to argue with you, as I only responded before because you quoted my post. If you want to pick a fight then you can find someone else.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

how is it messy? It's even on topic ...

Sigh, you know what, forget it. Some things you just can't have a discussion about I guess.

String arguments is, I believe, considered a sort of spam.
Don't quote me on that though, I'm not sure.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Good news is that I've created the Murasame Ca$ale movement on Tumblr and have gotten done with the basics like looks and the purpose. All that's left is to do a clever first post that explains what Murasame Castle is and why it's worth the purchase. I'll be borrowing some information for the OP and use my own knowledge to pull this off. I'll allow you guys to support or follow whenever I'm finished doing the first post. Some advertising of the page and sharing new images of the game would be a great start for tomorrow (or shall I say this morning).

 

[Glaciacott]

String arguments is, I believe, considered a sort of spam.
Don't quote me on that though, I'm not sure.

Huh, interesting. I guess even if not spam I can see it taking up a huge part of the page, particularly when it's a back to back debate.
Good call, hadn't thought about it that way.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

If you guys are going to star DLC campaigning, I'd wait until definitive proof of such a thing happening first before getting anything started. I've come to accept that Taka's role in SSB4 will be an assist and I wouldn't like it for the fan base to get riled up working on this only to get heated/saddened because DLC isn't confirmed some time down the road.

Getting more folks to try Murasame when it hits Virtual Console though? That's cool. :D