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Official Nintendo Switch Discussion Thread

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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One thing I don't get is why people are negative about a potential 3 hour battery life.
I mean, for a pure handheld device that would be awful, but expecting a console level portable device to last much longer is kind of ridiculous. As long as you can plug it in frequently it should be fine anyways.
It's probably because the Wii U tablet has more battery power, so it feels like a step down.

One thing to understand is that many reactions don't also come with critical thinking. It makes sense why it has less battery life. Not everybody bothers to understand that or think clearly about why it does.

And no, this isn't a knock on anyone at all. It's just a fact that some people react too quickly. It's not a problem either, outside of(at best) making it hard to discuss stuff sometimes.
 
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One thing I don't get is why people are negative about a potential 3 hour battery life.
I mean, for a pure handheld device that would be awful, but expecting a console level portable device to last much longer is kind of ridiculous. As long as you can plug it in frequently it should be fine anyways.
Because it's a detriment through and through. 3 hours makes it essentially useless on long trips/flights. You are already undercutting the console's power well below that of the PS4 for the sake of portability, so what you're left with is essentially a console that tries to do two things, but succeeds at neither.

Not to mention, competing tablets boast better battery life, and a gaming laptop boasts better power, better battery life, and more functionality.

With 3 hours battery, the portable aspect is near pointless outside of day to day commute, which is also when gaming is most uncomfortable. Thus, most people will be using it as a home console 90%, but because the machine uses a mobile chip in order to be portable, you're essentially buying another underpowered gaming console that offers little value outside of Nintendo IP.

Really, think about this. As a consumer, why would you spend ~$350 on a Switch, when for $500 you can get a gaming laptop that has a much bigger library, more power, more functionality, and a much better battery?
 

SimonBarSinister

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Because it's a detriment through and through. 3 hours makes it essentially useless on long trips/flights. You are already undercutting the console's power well below that of the PS4 for the sake of portability, so what you're left with is essentially a console that tries to do two things, but succeeds at neither.
Then it's a good thing I won't be buying it for its portability (that's kinda why I have a 3DS after all). Besides, any type of portable gaming platform that's bigger than a 3DS, or can't fit in my pockets is something I wouldn't want to carry with me anyway. For me, the Switch would be a dedicated home console.

With 3 hours battery, the portable aspect is near pointless outside of day to day commute, which is also when gaming is most uncomfortable. Thus, most people will be using it as a home console 90%, but because the machine uses a mobile chip in order to be portable, you're essentially buying another underpowered gaming console that offers little value outside of Nintendo IP.
Assuming the Switch is another under-powered machine, that really isn't such a deal breaker for me as I've never bought Nintendo platforms for their power. Now if this is true, I can't imagine this would sit well with third-party developers who have plans to work with the Switch (though some developers seem to be praising it). I guess we'll know soon enough.
 
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Then it's a good thing I won't be buying it for its portability (that's kinda why I have a 3DS after all). Besides, any type of portable gaming platform that's bigger than a 3DS, or can't fit in my pockets is something I wouldn't want to carry with me anyway. For me, the Switch would be a dedicated home console.


Assuming the Switch is another under-powered machine, that really isn't such a deal breaker for me as I've never bought Nintendo platforms for their power. Now if this is true, I can't imagine this would sit well with third-party developers who have plans to work with the Switch (though some developers seem to be praising it). I guess we'll know soon enough.
Has a dev ever talked down a console before its launch?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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While I get some won't really be playing it outside their room, tons will.

Having a lower battery life than general handhelds is a bad thing and can make sales worse when people realize this. I mean, it's more powerful than previous handhelds, but it really should at least be 4 hours minimum.

At least, say, on a plane, you should be able to plug it in somewhere.
 
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Yeah, quite a few talked about the Wii U in a negative light.
Not before launch iirc, before launch every dev was talking up the Wii U and how excited they were about it, it wasn't until after it came out that devs started to ridicule its performance.

I remember that there was a lot of speculation behind the hardware of the Wii U before launch, many people were saying it would be twice as powerful than it wound up being.

Also, the Dreamcast.
I was like 10 years old when the Dreamcast came out. Too young to care about hardware. Did people really talk down on it prior to launch? From what I've heard these days, Dreamcast was supposedly ahead of its time.

While I get some won't really be playing it outside their room, tons will.

Having a lower battery life than general handhelds is a bad thing and can make sales worse when people realize this. I mean, it's more powerful than previous handhelds, but it really should at least be 4 hours minimum.

At least, say, on a plane, you should be able to plug it in somewhere.
Depends on the plane. A lot of budget flights don't have chargers.

Regardless, it's a detriment through and through unless you accessorize.

Btw, leaked price is $250, and I'm sure some of you have heard the rumor that BotW will be delayed again.

Remember that Kimishima said they would not sell it at a loss. At $250, I have serious doubts it's running an X2 variant. Remember the benchmarks were: X2 = half as powerful as PS4 vanilla, and X1 = slightly more powerful than Wii U.
 

N3ON

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Yeah I don't remember many negative things said by devs prior to the Wii U's release. After is a different story.

Also wasn't old enough to follow the press when the Dreamcast came out, but afaik it did decently well for itself until the PS2 showed up. Can't really comment too definitively on that one though.

Not saying y'all are wrong, just that it's not what I remember. Feel free to post links to the contrary though...
 

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...That's it? That's the rumor? That's stating the obvious and then saying battle mode is getting fixed. (Though it wouldn't shock me if battle mode wasn't touched...)
 

finalark

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I was like 10 years old when the Dreamcast came out. Too young to care about hardware. Did people really talk down on it prior to launch? From what I've heard these days, Dreamcast was supposedly ahead of its time.
Also wasn't old enough to follow the press when the Dreamcast came out, but afaik it did decently well for itself until the PS2 showed up. Can't really comment too definitively on that one though.
From what my research tells me most people we're fine with the console itself, it was more the company behind the console that was talked down at.
 

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Updated the OP a bit, including the addition of this pic of Switch games, which is not too big if I say it's not, and is made by LordKano of GAF. Maybe at some point I'll get off my ass and make my own version. :p



From what my research tells me most people we're fine with the console itself, it was more the company behind the console that was talked down at.
Coming off the Saturn and all those ugly Genesis add-ons, I can buy that. Though it still sounds like something the fans would express more outwardly than fellow devs.
 

finalark

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Coming off the Saturn and all those ugly Genesis add-ons, I can buy that. Though it still sounds like something the fans would express more outwardly than fellow devs.
No joke, EA and a number of other devs and publishers refused to sign on to develop games for the thing. As you said, given how Sega handled the Saturn and the Genesis add-ons its really not surprising.
 
D

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Updated the OP a bit, including the addition of this pic of Switch games, which is not too big if I say it's not, and is made by LordKano of GAF. Maybe at some point I'll get off my *** and make my own version. :p




Coming off the Saturn and all those ugly Genesis add-ons, I can buy that. Though it still sounds like something the fans would express more outwardly than fellow devs.
When you make it, you should put Indie games on their own category, as they can't quite be considered FULL titles in most cases. Having them next to the 1st and 3rd party games is a bit misleading. Also, I was gonna say to label them as exclusive or multiplat, but considering only Mario is exclusive as far as we know, there's not much of a point. If anything, I'd say wait till January before making it, as chances are you'll have to update it after the direct, as I'm sure we'll see many more announcements then.

Also:
 
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N3ON

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No joke, EA and a number of other devs and publishers refused to sign on to develop games for the thing. As you said, given how Sega handled the Saturn and the Genesis add-ons its really not surprising.
Ah, another one of EA's "unprecedented partnerships", hey? :p

It's funny because the Dreamcast didn't have terrible 3rd party support. Better than the Wii U imo~

When you make it, you should put Indie games on their own category, as they can't quite be considered FULL titles in most cases. Having them next to the 1st and 3rd party games is a bit misleading. Also, I was gonna say to label them as exclusive or multiplat, but considering only Mario is exclusive as far as we know, there's not much of a point. If anything, I'd say wait till January before making it, as chances are you'll have to update it after the direct, as I'm sure we'll see many more announcements then.

Also:
I'd probably line them vertically instead of horizontally and have indies at the bottom. Dunno about designating exclusivity, maybe a different colour outline around the game. I'm probably not going to bother with it until January (if at all), like you said, just because for the time being I doubt we'll get an influx of announcements or anything.

And I doubt I'll keep up with it after launch... meaning it'd only exist for like two months... so yeah. Still not sure if I'll bother making it.

I am personally not a player of traditional fighters at all, but this would be a great launch game for the Switch if anything comes of it. (Especially if they pull a TTT2 and have Nintendo costumes and content).

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ndo_switch_wont_confirm_or_deny_possible_port
Well Tekken came to Wii U so it's definitely possible.

I'd like to see a new SoulCalibur with Link and maybe Marth in it personally.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Well Tekken came to Wii U so it's definitely possible.

I'd like to see a new SoulCalibur with Link and maybe Marth in it personally.
Isn't Soul Calibur IV(the PSP port) the first and only game to have the same guest character twice?

If so, totally an awesome idea. If they never did so, I'd just go with Marth(not that I disagree with Link being there, but I'd peg him as "less likely").

However, they do have a pattern of having one guest character from a Video Game Console Company. While we did get multiple Star Wars guests, they weren't video game characters. I don't think this pattern will hold, cause it's Link.
 
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I'd like to see a new SoulCalibur with Link and maybe Marth in it personally.
Ike>Marth. Gimme mah boi Ike instead.
-Fights for his friends
-badass
-built like MAN with hulking muscles
-carries around a ****huge sword like it's made of paper
-probably does 10k deadlifts for breakfast
-isn't afraid of anything

Joking aside, I'd actually love to see a new Soul Calibur, especially one that brought Link back. But then again, that'd mean I'd have a reason to buy a Switch now, and I'd rather not. On the other hand, if we got a new round of multiplat Soul Calibur games, the PS4 version might have Cloud in it, especially with that FFVIIR and whatnot, and I'd be down for that just as much. If Sm4sh showed me anything it's that putting Cloud in fighting games = oodles of fun, and salt all around.
 

_Sheik

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Why do people think BotW is getting 'delayed' - I mean, it has never been said to release the same month as the Switch, huh?
 
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I was actually thinking about letting the thread use the same banner as its unrelated NeoGAF counterpart for a few days now, but it looks like I have been beaten to it.

N3ON N3ON Please update the banner to the latest version. IntelliHeath has already updated it on NeoGAF. Instead of using Avenir, the text at the top now uses the same font as these images and the Japanese website. There's the Partners and Presentation images as well. The new font is FF Mark. The Switch logo animation has been reduced to a minimum while the text animation got removed.

The reason why I kept on updating it was to better resemble the current promotional material there is for the system. By "promotional material," I mean some of the images I just mentoned above.
 
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D

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Why do people think BotW is getting 'delayed' - I mean, it has never been said to release the same month as the Switch, huh?
This is why:



And the fact that it was meant to initially release this year:
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Remember, BOTW was delayed just so we can have two versions.

Delaying it again is quite possible. The way Aonuma talked was that he had super high hopes for this game. I think he wants to perfect it to an extreme point. Albeit, this means that the old demo(the one at e3) could be quite different from the final version. Or they could add more options(I don't mean a female one, Aonuma was clear on why Link cannot be female in the official games. Regardless of whether one agrees with it or not, he did give an explanation. It's a crappy one, but he did give one nonetheless).
 

N3ON

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Isn't Soul Calibur IV(the PSP port) the first and only game to have the same guest character twice?

If so, totally an awesome idea. If they never did so, I'd just go with Marth(not that I disagree with Link being there, but I'd peg him as "less likely").

However, they do have a pattern of having one guest character from a Video Game Console Company. While we did get multiple Star Wars guests, they weren't video game characters. I don't think this pattern will hold, cause it's Link.
Not sure, may be. I haven't played every entry in the franchise.

And yeah, if SC ever finds its way back to a Nintendo console, there's no guarantee Link would be on it. It'd be breaking precedent for sure. But he's generally regarded as the best SC guest, plus he allowed SC2 to move the most units on the Gamecube. So there's both fan and financial reasoning behind it, should the companies be so inclined. Not to mention Namco and Ninty are clearly on good terms.

Ike>Marth. Gimme mah boi Ike instead.
-Fights for his friends
-badass
-built like MAN with hulking muscles
-carries around a ****huge sword like it's made of paper
-probably does 10k deadlifts for breakfast
-isn't afraid of anything

Joking aside, I'd actually love to see a new Soul Calibur, especially one that brought Link back. But then again, that'd mean I'd have a reason to buy a Switch now, and I'd rather not. On the other hand, if we got a new round of multiplat Soul Calibur games, the PS4 version might have Cloud in it, especially with that FFVIIR and whatnot, and I'd be down for that just as much. If Sm4sh showed me anything it's that putting Cloud in fighting games = oodles of fun, and salt all around.
A new SC would be nice. I didn't much care for SCV.

Not gonna hold my breath for Cloud in SC though. But who knows, stranger things have happened.

And I mean if you're at all interested in Nintendo games going forward you'd probably have to pick up a Switch at some point.

I was actually thinking about letting the thread use the same banner as its unrelated NeoGAF counterpart for a few days now, but it looks like I have been beaten to it.

N3ON N3ON Please update the banner to the latest version. IntelliHeath has already updated it on NeoGAF. Instead of using Avenir, the text at the top now uses the same font as these images and the Japanese website. There's the Partners and Presentation images as well. The new font is FF Mark. The Switch logo animation has been reduced to a minimum while the text animation got removed.

The reason why I kept on updating it was to better resemble the current promotional material there is for the system. By "promotional material," I mean some of the images I just mentoned above.
Happy to!

Very nice banner btw. :)

Why do people think BotW is getting 'delayed' - I mean, it has never been said to release the same month as the Switch, huh?
What Manly said, plus the fact that people believed BotW was delayed to accommodate the Switch, not the other way around. So they assumed BotW would be ready at launch. Also the fact that Ninty went all out at E3 with BotW implied they believed they'd have it out prior to the next E3.

Even though they never outright confirmed a March release for BotW, I think it's a fairly safe bet that they were intending for it up until relatively recently.
 
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And I mean if you're at all interested in Nintendo games going forward you'd probably have to pick up a Switch at some point.
Well, these are my thoughts alone, but to be honest with you, after the WiiU, I wonder if I'm even interested in future Nintendo games at all.

It's not even cause I'm upset they dropped the WiiU for the Switch or any of that at all, but that aside, the majority of 1st party titles on both the WiiU and 3DS felt massively underwhelming.

Looking at Smash for example, yeah, while a step up from Brawl, it still left a lot to be desired. At least for me. And I don't mean in terms of characters or content, etc... since I think the roster is the best the franchise has ever, and could ever have, but just mechanically. You need only to play Melee and Smash 4 side by side to see what I mean. I loved Melee, and spent hours playing Melee with my friends back in hs, not cause Melee had Nintendo characters from many different franchises fighting each other, but be cause Melee FELT addictingly good to play. It was a very responsive game, that rewarded skill, and just simply felt good to play. That's the only way I can really describe it. The speed of the engine, and the mechanics were all really good. And you know me, I never really got into that wavesdashing stuff. Compared to most of the community in this site, I'm very much a casual. Playing Smash 4 by comparison just festers into frustration at various aspects of the game. It just doesn't feel the same way. It honestly in many ways doesn't even feel like a competitive fighting game, since it has so many design decisions that are intentionally anti-competitive. Complaints that I've voiced here and in other places before, and to which I was given the advice of "instead of wanting Smash 4 to be a fighting game, or playing it as one when it's not properly designed as one, and feeling frustrated as a result, why don't you pick up a real fighting game like Guilty Gear and play that instead?"

Which is honestly what I did at the end of the day. This generation for me was very much a repeat of last generation. Last gen, I bought a Wii early into the generation, played it, felt bummed by Smash, felt bummed by the lack of games to play, and the deteriorating quality in many of their games, and I bought an Xbox 360 when Halo 3 came out to play with all my friends, and pretty much played games on there like Rock Band, and Gears, and Halo while my Wii collected dust. This gen, I bought the WiiU, felt pissed at the repeating trends despite the promise that "this time it would be different" and bought a PS4 to play Overwatch, and Guilty Gear, and Titanfall 2, and Bloodborne, and the upcoming exclusives with all my friends, literally like a couple days ago.

And it's not just Smash, but while Nintendo might deliver on their promise for a new F-Zero or Metroid, I can't count on them to not **** it up somehow anymore. Just look at Other M, and Sticker Star, and most notably, Star Fox Zero.

When news of that game being a "reimagination" using the same nostalgic elements from the most popular SF game, my interest in it quickly waned. Rather than take advantage of having Plat Games working with them to design a game that built upon the potential of the franchise, and really polishing it up to bring a top notch experience, we instead got a game that... honestly, felt like it didn't quite know which direction it was heading. Like, imagine if Zero had taken the multiplayer element of Assault, which was really good, and polished it up to make it amazing, maybe even give it an online ranking mode, and in addition, added fast twitch railway Arwing segments. Combine that with a new idea for a story, whether it be sequel or prequel, and you've got a top notch game. I know I'm in the minority when I say this, but Assault was a legit good game, it just lacked polish. But the core design elements of that game not only had potential, but were the right direction for StarFox to head into. Not a "re-re-reimagining" of a game most of us played about 4 times by now, with a clunky gimmick tacked on for innovation just for innovation's sake.

And that's my point, you see this again and again with Nintendo IP. Squandered potential left and right. In many ways, Nintendo no longer makes games that appeal to gamers, in fact, they're certainly not catering to us, their fans. We're always an afterthought, and they keep us hooked on their products with their nostalgia drug of "remember how much you used to like this?" all the while forgetting WHY we liked those experiences int he first place. With all the hand-holding, and tutorials, and lowered difficulty curve, and gimmicks, across all their games, it's obvious Nintendo is TRYING to make games that appeal to children first. The irony being that children are more concerned in playing games like GTA and CoD than Mario or Zelda. And I could cite dozens of examples across two generations now, both console and handheld. And that's not even getting into the hardware, and how clunky and awkward Nintendo OS tends to be compared to the competition, or how simple things like, including an ethernet port in your console, or having your consoles be region free, are completely out of mind for Nintendo.

On games alone, it's been two generations of me playing Nintendo games, and just feeling massively underwhelmed. My best experiences on the WiiU were all the few 3rd party exclusives the console had like Bayonetta 2 and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, not the 1st party games. And a similar thing can be said about the Wii with Xenoblade, No More Heroes, and Muramasa; or the DS with TWEWY, Ghost Trick, Radiant Historia, and Shin Megami Tensei. I'll keep an eye out for what the Switch has got down the line, but I'll more than likely be skipping out on this generation to be honest. Due to their games having no community really, and mostly being single player experiences, I no longer see a point in missing out on popular games that NEED live communities to be experienced over games that I can easily play the following gen, at a much cheaper price, especially since Nintendo games NEVER drop in price during their generation.

Capitalism and the Free Market mean that a company has to EARN my money. They have to compete and make products that cater to me, in order for me to be willing to spend money on them. And that's how I feel about Nintendo products going from here forward. Until they start to make games and products that cater toward me instead of children and non-gamers, I won't be spending a dime on their stuff. Brand loyalty to me, isn't a reason for why I should support a company. On the contrary, it's because of brand loyalty that Nintendo products have been stagnating for so long imo. Since they know they don't have to try to retain their loyal fans, they'll always buy their stuff simply because it's Nintendo. But personally, I've grown tired of that, and I really would like to see a Zelda or a Mario or a Metroid that is GOOD outside of its name, that you could slap a different name on the game, and it still be fantastic. Not a Zelda that is "good" because "Zelda games are always good" which certainly isn't true.

Those are my two cents. Sorry for the rant, haha, but I really did try to keep it short. I honestly have a lot more to say on this matter, since it's been two generations of this now, and it's just been building up, and like I've said, I grew up with Nintendo, being a fan of then since the NES. So I feel the most disappointed by their current state of affairs and overall quality, because I KNOW how good their used to be, because I remember when they actually used to compete. I'll be honest. I genuinely regret buying a WiiU. It was a waste of money through and through. Monster Hunter and Bayonetta didn't justify a $350 purchase. But that's just me. I'm not telling anyone NOT to buy Nintendo products, or that the Switch WILL flop, I honestly don't know. But at the same time, if Nintendo keeps going down their current path, I'd much rather they go 3rd party since their IP no longer merit the value of an exclusive console. Not for me at least.
 

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Well, these are my thoughts alone, but to be honest with you, after the WiiU, I wonder if I'm even interested in future Nintendo games at all.

It's not even cause I'm upset they dropped the WiiU for the Switch or any of that at all, but that aside, the majority of 1st party titles on both the WiiU and 3DS felt massively underwhelming.

Looking at Smash for example, yeah, while a step up from Brawl, it still left a lot to be desired. At least for me. And I don't mean in terms of characters or content, etc... since I think the roster is the best the franchise has ever, and could ever have, but just mechanically. You need only to play Melee and Smash 4 side by side to see what I mean. I loved Melee, and spent hours playing Melee with my friends back in hs, not cause Melee had Nintendo characters from many different franchises fighting each other, but be cause Melee FELT addictingly good to play. It was a very responsive game, that rewarded skill, and just simply felt good to play. That's the only way I can really describe it. The speed of the engine, and the mechanics were all really good. And you know me, I never really got into that wavesdashing stuff. Compared to most of the community in this site, I'm very much a casual. Playing Smash 4 by comparison just festers into frustration at various aspects of the game. It just doesn't feel the same way. It honestly in many ways doesn't even feel like a competitive fighting game, since it has so many design decisions that are intentionally anti-competitive. Complaints that I've voiced here and in other places before, and to which I was given the advice of "instead of wanting Smash 4 to be a fighting game, or playing it as one when it's not properly designed as one, and feeling frustrated as a result, why don't you pick up a real fighting game like Guilty Gear and play that instead?"

Which is honestly what I did at the end of the day. This generation for me was very much a repeat of last generation. Last gen, I bought a Wii early into the generation, played it, felt bummed by Smash, felt bummed by the lack of games to play, and the deteriorating quality in many of their games, and I bought an Xbox 360 when Halo 3 came out to play with all my friends, and pretty much played games on there like Rock Band, and Gears, and Halo while my Wii collected dust. This gen, I bought the WiiU, felt pissed at the repeating trends despite the promise that "this time it would be different" and bought a PS4 to play Overwatch, and Guilty Gear, and Titanfall 2, and Bloodborne, and the upcoming exclusives with all my friends, literally like a couple days ago.

And it's not just Smash, but while Nintendo might deliver on their promise for a new F-Zero or Metroid, I can't count on them to not **** it up somehow anymore. Just look at Other M, and Sticker Star, and most notably, Star Fox Zero.

When news of that game being a "reimagination" using the same nostalgic elements from the most popular SF game, my interest in it quickly waned. Rather than take advantage of having Plat Games working with them to design a game that built upon the potential of the franchise, and really polishing it up to bring a top notch experience, we instead got a game that... honestly, felt like it didn't quite know which direction it was heading. Like, imagine if Zero had taken the multiplayer element of Assault, which was really good, and polished it up to make it amazing, maybe even give it an online ranking mode, and in addition, added fast twitch railway Arwing segments. Combine that with a new idea for a story, whether it be sequel or prequel, and you've got a top notch game. I know I'm in the minority when I say this, but Assault was a legit good game, it just lacked polish. But the core design elements of that game not only had potential, but were the right direction for StarFox to head into. Not a "re-re-reimagining" of a game most of us played about 4 times by now, with a clunky gimmick tacked on for innovation just for innovation's sake.

And that's my point, you see this again and again with Nintendo IP. Squandered potential left and right. In many ways, Nintendo no longer makes games that appeal to gamers, in fact, they're certainly not catering to us, their fans. We're always an afterthought, and they keep us hooked on their products with their nostalgia drug of "remember how much you used to like this?" all the while forgetting WHY we liked those experiences int he first place. With all the hand-holding, and tutorials, and lowered difficulty curve, and gimmicks, across all their games, it's obvious Nintendo is TRYING to make games that appeal to children first. The irony being that children are more concerned in playing games like GTA and CoD than Mario or Zelda. And I could cite dozens of examples across two generations now, both console and handheld. And that's not even getting into the hardware, and how clunky and awkward Nintendo OS tends to be compared to the competition, or how simple things like, including an ethernet port in your console, or having your consoles be region free, are completely out of mind for Nintendo.

On games alone, it's been two generations of me playing Nintendo games, and just feeling massively underwhelmed. My best experiences on the WiiU were all the few 3rd party exclusives the console had like Bayonetta 2 and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, not the 1st party games. And a similar thing can be said about the Wii with Xenoblade, No More Heroes, and Muramasa; or the DS with TWEWY, Ghost Trick, Radiant Historia, and Shin Megami Tensei. I'll keep an eye out for what the Switch has got down the line, but I'll more than likely be skipping out on this generation to be honest. Due to their games having no community really, and mostly being single player experiences, I no longer see a point in missing out on popular games that NEED live communities to be experienced over games that I can easily play the following gen, at a much cheaper price, especially since Nintendo games NEVER drop in price during their generation.

Capitalism and the Free Market mean that a company has to EARN my money. They have to compete and make products that cater to me, in order for me to be willing to spend money on them. And that's how I feel about Nintendo products going from here forward. Until they start to make games and products that cater toward me instead of children and non-gamers, I won't be spending a dime on their stuff. Brand loyalty to me, isn't a reason for why I should support a company. On the contrary, it's because of brand loyalty that Nintendo products have been stagnating for so long imo. Since they know they don't have to try to retain their loyal fans, they'll always buy their stuff simply because it's Nintendo. But personally, I've grown tired of that, and I really would like to see a Zelda or a Mario or a Metroid that is GOOD outside of its name, that you could slap a different name on the game, and it still be fantastic. Not a Zelda that is "good" because "Zelda games are always good" which certainly isn't true.

Those are my two cents. Sorry for the rant, haha, but I really did try to keep it short. I honestly have a lot more to say on this matter, since it's been two generations of this now, and it's just been building up, and like I've said, I grew up with Nintendo, being a fan of then since the NES. So I feel the most disappointed by their current state of affairs and overall quality, because I KNOW how good their used to be, because I remember when they actually used to compete. I'll be honest. I genuinely regret buying a WiiU. It was a waste of money through and through. Monster Hunter and Bayonetta didn't justify a $350 purchase. But that's just me. I'm not telling anyone NOT to buy Nintendo products, or that the Switch WILL flop, I honestly don't know. But at the same time, if Nintendo keeps going down their current path, I'd much rather they go 3rd party since their IP no longer merit the value of an exclusive console. Not for me at least.
I think you're feeling something similar to what I felt a while back.

Like none of the new stuff can really catch your attention like they used to even if you think the game itself is pretty good and you know you've liked "worse" stuff before.

I've gotten that feeling a lot in the last couple of generations. Ever since I started through high school.

A large part of that is franchise fatigue (and that can easily recover), but a big part of what made me like new video games again was just getting into the mindset that good was enough. I kept looking for the next big thing, for the thing to capture me like the things in my childhood did, but that only made me more disappointed than I should have been. And I'm not saying to lower expectations or standards for what you think is great or excellent. I'm saying is that just being good is okay and that being just good isn't a cause for disappointment. Once I started to put that line of thinking into my video games, they became fun again. I even enjoyed games I didn't like in the past and gained a new appreciation and understanding for games I did like back then. And looking back, its because I went back to the mindset younger me had. I didn't want the next greatest thing, or something that went specifically to my desires or interests or preconceptions of what it used to be or what it should be. I just wanted to have fun and I got the thing that looked fun/seemed cool and even if it was what I'd now consider garbage, I still enjoyed myself.

I understand that those franchises are dear to your heart. They are to me too and seeing them make missteps is always concerning. But I didn't really appreciate the older games or the newer games until I just sat back and just went for the ride. There's a place for analyzing game design, story and all that, but if your situation is anything like mine was, it'll help if you just learn to simplify those feelings, good and bad.

I guess one way to put it would be to learn how to enjoy the dumb action flick even though it isn't the next blockbuster hit of the decade.
After all, a not as good time, can still be a good time. :drflip:
 
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I think you're feeling something similar to what I felt a while back.

Like none of the new stuff can really catch your attention like they used to even if you think the game itself is pretty good and you know you've liked "worse" stuff before.

I've gotten that feeling a lot in the last couple of generations. Ever since I started through high school.

A large part of that is franchise fatigue (and that can easily recover), but a big part of what made me like new video games again was just getting into the mindset that good was enough. I kept looking for the next big thing, for the thing to capture me like the things in my childhood did, but that only made me more disappointed than I should have been. And I'm not saying to lower expectations or standards for what you think is great or excellent. I'm saying is that just being good is okay and that being just good isn't a cause for disappointment. Once I started to put that line of thinking into my video games, they became fun again. I even enjoyed games I didn't like in the past and gained a new appreciation and understanding for games I did like back then. And looking back, its because I went back to the mindset younger me had. I didn't want the next greatest thing, or something that went specifically to my desires or interests or preconceptions of what it used to be or what it should be. I just wanted to have fun and I got the thing that looked fun/seemed cool and even if it was what I'd now consider garbage, I still enjoyed myself.

I understand that those franchises are dear to your heart. They are to me too and seeing them make missteps is always concerning. But I didn't really appreciate the older games or the newer games until I just sat back and just went for the ride. There's a place for analyzing game design, story and all that, but if your situation is anything like mine was, it'll help if you just learn to simplify those feelings, good and bad.

I guess one way to put it would be to learn how to enjoy the dumb action flick even though it isn't the next blockbuster hit of the decade.
After all, a not as good time, can still be a good time. :drflip:
Yeah man, no doubt franchise fatigue is a part of it. But it's also instigated by the fact that their games have gotten worse over the years, or that they don't really bother to bring back IP that don't sell very well, and if they do, they turn them into casual cash grabs like we saw with Federation Force. I wouldn't feel so bummed by it at least if Nintendo games weren't locked behind an expensive console. that has nothing really to offer outside those games.

I'll be honest with you though, the more thought I put into it, the more it feels like the ideal situation would be for Nintendo to go 3rd party. I mean, no doubt I'm looking at this through rose-tinted glasses, but just from comparing the hardware between the PS4 and WiiU, you can instantly tell that Sony knows how to make hardware. It's all the little things and the nuances of the console, that shows they put thought into building the thing, and making it a user-friendly multimedia entertainment system. It's very seamless and functional. So it's not just "imagine what Nintendo could do on high-end hardware" but simply the commodity of the PS4 is something unrivaled, and something that I have serious doubts Nintendo will ever match with their own hardware. Not only that, but Nintendo software sales would certainly increase if they were on multiple platforms, especially the most popular, rather than tucked away behind the most niche of the main consoles, with an ever decreasing install base. Nintendo would also be forced to compete with other 3rd party devs for game sales, and thus have to put more effort into making their games appeal to gamers, rather than forcing their games to be different for the sake of innovation, and continuously straying from what made those franchise successful in the first place.

Plus, on PC, Nintendo games would be a lot easier to mod, and there'd at least be hope of Nintendo embracing that. Then again, that also sounds like a pipe dream. Since Nintendo's core problems really lie with the company heads being out of touch old people who don't really seem to understand the industry too much anymore, their consoles and libraries being underwhelming really seem to be more of a symptom of that tbh.

Anyway at least for now I have a whole back catalog of PS4 and PS3 games to check out, and it's certainly a lot more fresh and exciting trying out a lot of these games. But we'll see what Nintendo does. I keep saying though, they're gonna have to do some radical changes if they really wanna change current trends and gain the attention from most core gamers. I'm not the only one who feels burned by Nintendo and everything they've done with the Wii and WiiU.

Remember this old thing?


I don't even know how old this comic is anymore, but the sad part is that it's still very much relevant to the current situation.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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For the record, Nintendo's overall statement is they wouldn't go 3rd party. They'd just stop altogether and let their IP's die instead. But to be fair, they were always a 1st party and really protective of their IP's, so...
 
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For the record, Nintendo's overall statement is they wouldn't go 3rd party. They'd just stop altogether and let their IP's die instead. But to be fair, they were always a 1st party and really protective of their IP's, so...
Yeah, but they also said they'd never make mobile games, or do DLC unless it was after a game was finished, and look at how both of those turned out.

I think a company would do whatever is most profitable for them, regardless of PR statements.
 
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Yeah, but they also said they'd never make mobile games, or do DLC unless it was after a game was finished, and look at how both of those turned out.

I think a company would do whatever is most profitable for them, regardless of PR statements.
DLC/mobile stuff is very very different from completely going 3rd party, though.

Nintendo has its own systems. That's why it won't go regular 3rd party. Also, it had Mario games for non-consoles like PC's/Macs before. Mobile is the same thing. Clearly they believe if it's not on another console, it doesn't count as 3rd party. Which makes sense to some degree. PC is not really competition for them as it's not a literal video game console like the Xbox One would be(for a simple example).

I'm looking for the article, since it may be more than just "cause we don't want to". It's not just about what they said, but why they said it. I do think it could happen, but only maybe to PC/mobile at best. I don't expect to ever see Mario on an actual non-Nintendo console anytime soon. Maybe a very very long time from now if Nintendo gets out of the video game scene and all the copyrights/trademarks are up/bought out. But that's pretty unlikely at this point.
 

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Ports, ports everywhere.
Meh, I'm more enraged about another Super Mario Maker port (Switch) than this.

Oh, we get to have more product placement/advertisement costumes. Going to be prepared to see Mickey, SpongeBob, and "X famous celebrity" appear at some point. :rolleyes:
 
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DLC/mobile stuff is very very different from completely going 3rd party, though.

Nintendo has its own systems. That's why it won't go regular 3rd party. Also, it had Mario games for non-consoles like PC's/Macs before. Mobile is the same thing. Clearly they believe if it's not on another console, it doesn't count as 3rd party. Which makes sense to some degree. PC is not really competition for them as it's not a literal video game console like the Xbox One would be(for a simple example).

I'm looking for the article, since it may be more than just "cause we don't want to". It's not just about what they said, but why they said it. I do think it could happen, but only maybe to PC/mobile at best. I don't expect to ever see Mario on an actual non-Nintendo console anytime soon. Maybe a very very long time from now if Nintendo gets out of the video game scene and all the copyrights/trademarks are up/bought out. But that's pretty unlikely at this point.
True, but I also believe a company will do whatever it takes to survive if the situation calls for it. Not only would the investors not allow Nintendo to go under with all their very valuable IP, but Nintendo as a company is also responsible for employing thousands of people. At the end of they day too, we have to admit that Nintendo DOES enjoy making videogames. Software is really something they like focusing on, well over hardware. Not too keen on the source, so take this with a grain of salt, but I remember reading somewhere that Nintendo outsources the development of their hardware to a 3rd party, since I think the Wii. Don't quote me on that though, as it could be false.

Anyway, imagine the Switch performs WORSE than the WiiU. I'm not saying it will, but suppose it does. What happens then? Part of what brought Sega down was them ruining their brand image with consecutive consoles that disappointed fans and poor decision-making. It eventually got to a point where their brand name was unsalvageable. If the Switch does poorly, I have doubts Nintendo would be able to recover their brand name to a point where people would trust their hardware anymore. In fact, I doubt Nintendo would probably even bother to make another console.

But I also doubt they'd drop out entirely, especially with a large part of the gaming community urging them on to go 3rd party, combined with the fact that this would also make them a lot more money in software sales. They would also save a lot of money on R&D, Production, and Marketing for new consoles. Money which could in fact be put forward into expanding their different software development studios, and even acquiring a few of their own, a la Ubisoft, EA, Activision. The fact of the matter is, Nintendo is already at a point where their hardware has a bad reputation among most gamers, and if they fail to deliver a sweeping success with the Switch, that's unlikely to ever fully recover. If you crunch the numbers in, going 3rd party is the most logical option for a giant like Nintendo. And unlike SEGA, they'd be backing out of the hardware market with billions in the bank, which would allow them to expand the company to make games.

At the end of the day, even us as Nintendo fans don't so much care for their hardware, it's their games we care about the most, and if they can put themselves in a situation where they can consistently put our more games of higher quality, then we all win, no?
 

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True, but I also believe a company will do whatever it takes to survive if the situation calls for it. Not only would the investors not allow Nintendo to go under with all their very valuable IP, but Nintendo as a company is also responsible for employing thousands of people. At the end of they day too, we have to admit that Nintendo DOES enjoy making videogames. Software is really something they like focusing on, well over hardware. Not too keen on the source, so take this with a grain of salt, but I remember reading somewhere that Nintendo outsources the development of their hardware to a 3rd party, since I think the Wii. Don't quote me on that though, as it could be false.

Anyway, imagine the Switch performs WORSE than the WiiU. I'm not saying it will, but suppose it does. What happens then? Part of what brought Sega down was them ruining their brand image with consecutive consoles that disappointed fans and poor decision-making. It eventually got to a point where their brand name was unsalvageable. If the Switch does poorly, I have doubts Nintendo would be able to recover their brand name to a point where people would trust their hardware anymore. In fact, I doubt Nintendo would probably even bother to make another console.

But I also doubt they'd drop out entirely, especially with a large part of the gaming community urging them on to go 3rd party, combined with the fact that this would also make them a lot more money in software sales. They would also save a lot of money on R&D, Production, and Marketing for new consoles. Money which could in fact be put forward into expanding their different software development studios, and even acquiring a few of their own, a la Ubisoft, EA, Activision. The fact of the matter is, Nintendo is already at a point where their hardware has a bad reputation among most gamers, and if they fail to deliver a sweeping success with the Switch, that's unlikely to ever fully recover. If you crunch the numbers in, going 3rd party is the most logical option for a giant like Nintendo. And unlike SEGA, they'd be backing out of the hardware market with billions in the bank, which would allow them to expand the company to make games.

At the end of the day, even us as Nintendo fans don't so much care for their hardware, it's their games we care about the most, and if they can put themselves in a situation where they can consistently put our more games of higher quality, then we all win, no?
I can definitely see Nintendo no longer making games some day. The hardware still being weaker than your general console is appalling. That said, this doesn't mean they'll let their IP's go 3rd party. But they also have a new director. So things could change.

Back then, yeah, we could say for sure they'd never be 3rd party. Now it's not so clear. I concur with your point, even if I think they'll stay 1st party or "none" at this point.

Although unlike the Wii U, I feel the Switch is done far better. Its biggest weaknesses have been solved already. While the battery power sucks, it starts with at least 2 player games without needing you to buy another controller/having a previous Wii remote. It has far more reasonable power. Their advertisement and name isn't completely and utterly confusing. I'm not too worried for many reasons. The only issue at best I'm seeing is them not bothering to make enough new games right away. Enhanced ports and regular ports will not cut it for many consumers. They want new stuff. And 3rd party support needs to be nice and high. Skyrim is sweet. But they can do even better than that. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, bring back Killer Instinct and Rare games if they can, even more Final Fantasy(especially 7's remake), and so on.
 
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I can definitely see Nintendo no longer making games some day. The hardware still being weaker than your general console is appalling. That said, this doesn't mean they'll let their IP's go 3rd party. But they also have a new director. So things could change.

Back then, yeah, we could say for sure they'd never be 3rd party. Now it's not so clear. I concur with your point, even if I think they'll stay 1st party or "none" at this point.

Although unlike the Wii U, I feel the Switch is done far better. Its biggest weaknesses have been solved already. While the battery power sucks, it starts with at least 2 player games without needing you to buy another controller/having a previous Wii remote. It has far more reasonable power. Their advertisement and name isn't completely and utterly confusing. I'm not too worried for many reasons. The only issue at best I'm seeing is them not bothering to make enough new games right away. Enhanced ports and regular ports will not cut it for many consumers. They want new stuff. And 3rd party support needs to be nice and high. Skyrim is sweet. But they can do even better than that. Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, bring back Killer Instinct and Rare games if they can, even more Final Fantasy(especially 7's remake), and so on.
Isn't VIIR a PS4 exclusive?

We'll see what games the Switch ends up with at launch by January. But as I said before, I expect it to only be ports of games already out. I kind of disagree with their strategy being better this time around, though their naming might be better, I'm still baffled their marketing decisions. We still know little to nothing about the Switch and we won't get anything till about 2 months before the expected launch. Outside of gamers the popular masses don't even know this thing exists. It's already heading down the same path as the WiiU in terms of marketing. Not only that, but the Switch is only shipping 2 million units worldwide at launch. Imagine this was an intentional decision to generate artificial scarcity, and thus create more media buzz in regard to shortages (on which, I might actually buy a couple to scalp them, depends though), but that also shows Nintendo either doesn't have much confidence in the initial performance of the Switch, or are rushing to get it out quickly, which would be doubly bad. Regardless of anything, if the Switch fails to sell well, means it won't be much of a platform to receive 3rd party titles, the initial batch of support will obviously be ports of games for devs to test the water in terms of software sales on the console, if their ports don't sell too well (which at 2 million worldwide is doubtful), I think we'll quickly see a lot of the pledged devs back out on supporting the Switch (at least until the console acquires a sizeable install base - much like we saw with the 3DS, with 3rd party devs trickle in their support once the 3DS was revived in terms of sales - but with the Switch NOT selling at a loss, this will be hard to pull). I mean, just compare this to the Wii Launch, which was not only heavily marketed and hyped up for over a year prior to launch, but also had a killer line-up of games coming out. Hell, the thing was so revolutionary, South Park dedicated an entire episode to Wii hype. This is why scarcity only added to the fever, I don't see scarcity helping out the Switch very much, but then again, it might. You never know.

I'm mostly saying that it's too early to tell or even feel hopeful about this console's future, we'll know more by January, but as it stands, all of the current signs are less than ideal for a successful launch.
 

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Isn't VIIR a PS4 exclusive?
I don't think it was stated it will only be for the PS4 no matter what. But currently, it has no other system announcements.

We'll see what games the Switch ends up with at launch by January. But as I said before, I expect it to only be ports of games already out. I kind of disagree with their strategy being better this time around, though their naming might be better, I'm still baffled their marketing decisions. We still know little to nothing about the Switch and we won't get anything till about 2 months before the expected launch. Outside of gamers the popular masses don't even know this thing exists. It's already heading down the same path as the WiiU in terms of marketing. Not only that, but the Switch is only shipping 2 million units worldwide at launch. Imagine this was an intentional decision to generate artificial scarcity, and thus create more media buzz in regard to shortages (on which, I might actually buy a couple to scalp them, depends though), but that also shows Nintendo either doesn't have much confidence in the initial performance of the Switch, or are rushing to get it out quickly, which would be doubly bad. Regardless of anything, if the Switch fails to sell well, means it won't be much of a platform to receive 3rd party titles, the initial batch of support will obviously be ports of games for devs to test the water in terms of software sales on the console, if their ports don't sell too well (which at 2 million worldwide is doubtful), I think we'll quickly see a lot of the pledged devs back out on supporting the Switch (at least until the console acquires a sizeable install base - much like we saw with the 3DS, with 3rd party devs trickle in their support once the 3DS was revived in terms of sales - but with the Switch NOT selling at a loss, this will be hard to pull). I mean, just compare this to the Wii Launch, which was not only heavily marketed and hyped up for over a year prior to launch, but also had a killer line-up of games coming out. Hell, the thing was so revolutionary, South Park dedicated an entire episode to Wii hype. This is why scarcity only added to the fever, I don't see scarcity helping out the Switch very much, but then again, it might. You never know.
The amount of Switch shipped worldwide is an issue, but we already saw some new stuff. It's not all ports so far, so that's irrelevant. It does have way too much put into port-related stuff, but it clearly has a lot of good stuff. I don't see it failing to sell well since it doesn't lack anything particular, like the Wii U did. The price isn't shown to be crap. The controllers are definitely way better. The actual games shown off alone are pretty good and easy sells. I think there's too much doomsaying for it right now. That said, there is always the chance it could go poorly, but I'd say the lack of how many consoles being shipped is its only real weakness. It does not lack 3rd party support or advertising at this time.

I'm mostly saying that it's too early to tell or even feel hopeful about this console's future, we'll know more by January, but as it stands, all of the current signs are less than ideal for a successful launch.
It definitely looks far better than the Wii U did. It already has shown to have a good roster of games, not overly gimmicky, and most importantly, 3rd party support.

The only thing actually looking bad is the battery power. The rest? I don't see any problems with how they're showing it off.
 
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