Nintendo: Items left on in official tournament to "level the playing field"

[redgreenblue]

Makes sense. That, along with the 1-minute time limit and completely random stage selection, is all obviously built to pretty much make the Brawl tournament a glorified lottery.

Yes! That's the perfect way to describe it, a glorified lottery Thank you!

 

[Uchiharakiri]

Yes! That's the perfect way to describe it, a glorified lottery Thank you!

Sigh, even more bashing. It still takes skill to win this kind of tournament you know, not as much as a no items one, but still requires skill none the less, to call it a glorified lottery is a slight bit of an insult you know.

 

[Yuna]

In a tournament like this one?

It's, after all, the Utopia of the Item Lovers, isn't it? That all tournaments use items.

I
End thread. Not EVERY tournament -has- to be items off you know. I don't see what you're so angry about.

Yes, but then are so many arguing they should? So many people come onto Smashboards and say "we're" wrong for playing without items or that items is the way to go or that all tournaments should have items.

I have nothing against people hosting their own little item tournaments. I just won't go to them. And I would also never walk into a place with lots of item-lovers and argue ardently for why items shouldn't be on in tournaments.

 

[Chaosblade77]

The irony in this is that a lot of competitive players have said "If you want a tournament with items on then go make one" and now people are complaining about it once one actually exists?

 

[Uchiharakiri]

It's, after all, the Utopia of the Item Lovers, isn't it? That all tournaments use items.


Yes, but then are so many arguing they should? So many people come onto Smashboards and say "we're" wrong for playing without items or that items is the way to go or that all tournaments should have items.

I have nothing against people hosting their own little item tournaments. I just won't go to them. And I would also never walk into a place with lots of item-lovers and argue ardently for why items shouldn't be on in tournaments.

I never said that Items on was the right way, I just said it was -a- way. And yes, I cannot argue against the fact that there are people arguing that they should. I just simply posted those things because of your ardent discussion as to why items in this particular tournament were a bad idea, when it's clear that this is not a competitive tournament. Also, let me note of your calling it a "little" tournament, it's actually quite a big one, one that happens to use items. Your calling it little due to this fact would either directly or indirectly deem it small solely because of the reason that items are on, which is at least halfway to a bit of an arrogant tone. And no, it isn't paranoia making me say that.

It is a tournament, not a little one.

 

[kr3wman]

The irony in this is that a lot of competitive players have said "If you want a tournament with items on then go make one" and now people are complaining about it once one actually exists?

Human nature is to complain about everything, even if it doesn't affect you in anyway.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

The irony in this is that a lot of competitive players have said "If you want a tournament with items on then go make one" and now people are complaining about it once one actually exists?

Yes, but this is Smashboards, a competitive player exclusive website, it's okay to do it here...............just kidding, it isn't competitive only.

 

[kr3wman]

Yes, but this is Smashboards, a competitive player exclusive website, it's okay to do it here...............just kidding, it isn't competitive only.

In before

"Yes this is for for competitive players, casuals GTFO"

 

[Sliq]

I think more people are upset by the fact that the OFFICIAL NINTENDO TOURNAMENTS have these silly rulesets. If Joe Schmoe held one, no one would show up, but the fact that Nintendo is running one so ludicrous will give stupid casuals (not saying all casuals are stupid; I'm referencing casuals that happen to be stupid) the false notion that items should be on for tournaments, which they really shouldn't.

 

[Chaosblade77]

That makes more sense Sliq. It would lead to more complaining rather than just cause people to be content, like the Joe Schmoe tournament would (except Joe, who wasted his time putting it together).

 

[Uchiharakiri]

I think more people are upset by the fact that the OFFICIAL NINTENDO TOURNAMENTS have these silly rulesets. If Joe Schmoe held one, no one would show up, but the fact that Nintendo is running one so ludicrous will give stupid casuals the false notion that items should be on for tournaments, which they really shouldn't.

Actually, Nintendo is not known for it's competitiveness, it is obvious fact that Nintendo's policy has been up until now, gaming for everybody, it just so happens that due to this fact, they're making this an "everybody friendly" tournament.

"Nintendo is running one so ludicrous will give stupid casuals the false notion that items should be on for tournaments, which they really shouldn't'"

Dylan, really, come on dude are you serious. What you just said basically means "Items should never be used for tournaments", do you literally mean that. There is -no- right way to play Brawl, including tournaments. Just because a tournament is held with items on does not make it a silly tournament. What you -should- have said is "Competitive tournaments such as the ones I go to, should not be played with items" because as I will agree with you, they shouldn't be. But in this type, the one Nintendo is having, they should; because it's casual. Each side has their own way of playing, do not belittle one or the other simply for this fact, Dylan.

Btw MLG is not Joe Shmo, they do tournaments as you like them.

 

[Yuna]

The irony in this is that a lot of competitive players have said "If you want a tournament with items on then go make one" and now people are complaining about it once one actually exists?

I'm not complaining it's being held. Maybe some Competitive players are complaining about the ruleset since the prizes are so big but I doubt a whole bunch of them walked into Gamestop and demanded they change their rules.

Someone said "A skilled player should be able to win anyways!", which started the pro/anti-items argument again. If I were an American, I would've been miffed at it. I just wouldn't have entered or really cared that much if I lost.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

I'm not complaining it's being held. Maybe some Competitive players are complaining about the ruleset since the prizes are so big but I doubt a whole bunch of them walked into Gamestop and demanded they change their rules.

Yes, but no matter where the talking is done, the talking is still being done. It's kind of like saying "That dude is talking behind my back and not admitting he's saying these bad things about me to my face, so it's okay." Kind of.

 

[Yuna]

Actually, Nintendo is not known for it's competitiveness, it is obvious fact that Nintendo's policy has been up until now, gaming for everybody, it just so happens that due to this fact, they're making this an "everybody friendly" tournament.

You have a point there.

"Nintendo is running one so ludicrous will give stupid casuals the false notion that items should be on for tournaments, which they really shouldn't'"

Dylan, really, come on dude are you serious. What you just said basically means "Items should never be used for tournaments", do you literally mean that. There is -no- right way to play Brawl, including tournaments. Just because a tournament is held with items on does not make it a silly tournament. What you -should- have said is "Competitive tournaments such as the ones I go to, should not be played with items" because as I will agree with you, they shouldn't be. But in this type, the one Nintendo is having, they should; because it's casual. Each side has their own way of playing, do not belittle one or the other simply for this fact, Dylan.

Btw MLG is not Joe Shmo, they do tournaments as you like them.

I think he meant more "Items shouldn't really be on in all tournaments [just the ones where people want them to be on]. And now more people will whine about items being on and have Nintendo to point at!"

What does MLG have to do with anything? It's Nintendo holding this tournament, not MLG. MLG did item tournaments way back when?

Yes, but no matter where the talking is done, the talking is still being done. It's kind of like saying "That dude is talking behind my back and not admitting he's saying these bad things about me to my face, so it's okay." Kind of.

So the Competitives can't whine anymore to each other, in the confines of their homes or whatever?

And it is, after all, a big tournament in terms of the prizes. They're upset their chances are reduced and that they might lose due to lucky item drops. It's not that a item-toruanemnt is being held, it's that this tournament had to have items on (and not just items, there's a whole bunch of things to whine about like it being on Time and that you can only advance to the 3rd or 4th round (don't remember which) If you're among the Top 4 with the highest scores (KOs vs. deaths). Half of the players remaining will have won all of their matches but will lose due to having less points than others. That's kinda blah too.

And what Sliq said.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

I think he meant more "Items shouldn't really be on in all tournaments [just the ones where people want them to be on]. And now more people will whine about items being on and have Nintendo to point at!"

Yes, that is what I was hoping he was aiming for, if so then I understand him completely. If however what he originally said was what he meant, then I feel sorry for him.

What does MLG have to do with anything? It's Nintendo holding this tournament, not MLG. MLG did item tournaments way back when?

MLG has to do with it that Sliq made a point that a "big name" as Nintendo is holding one and everybody is going one. Where I countered with that MLG is in itself a big name and just about the best of competitives know about it and go to it. A correlation

So the Competitives can't whine anymore to each other, in the confines of their homes or whatever?

And it is, after all, a big tournament in terms of the prizes. They're upset their chances are reduced and that they might lose due to lucky item drops. It's not that a item-toruanemnt is being held, it's that this tournament had to have items on (and not just items, there's a whole bunch of things to whine about like it being on Time and that you can only advance to the 3rd or 4th round (don't remember which) If you're among the Top 4 with the highest scores (KOs vs. deaths). Half of the players remaining will have won all of their matches but will lose due to having less points than others. That's kinda blah too.

And what Sliq said.

Correcto, you -can- whine to one another, it still stands that it is however how it's Nintendo is run and MLG -does- exist and it -does- give out big prizes, so you guys aren't -completely- misinterpreted. Granted, however, it is quite a big of a prize and I can see how a competitive might get his chances at such a lucrative thing be taken away because of a random Smart Bomb. In the same tone however, I can see that there is not much that can be done about that, but try your hardest with what skills you got, and as you yourself said. Not care about it or be mad if you lose to these circumstances.

 

[Vampire_Marth]

why would they do that. i mean it seems nice but why should smash newbies be in a tourney anyway?

 

[Uchiharakiri]

why would they do that. i mean it seems nice but why should smash newbies be in a tourney anyway?

Well, some may do it for fun, others may do it for the challenge and skill. What dictates how well these two preferences will be catered to most efficiently, is just what kind of tournament they are going to. For Smash newbies, a tournament like this would seem the most adequate for the people who want to have fun, and even those that do it for the prize and challenge; though not so much, sadly.

What I'm trying to say, Vampire, what kind of tourney do you mean?

 

[roguebanshee]

why would they do that. i mean it seems nice but why should smash newbies be in a tourney anyway?

You never know how good you are at something until you attempt it.

Besides, without fresh blood the tournament scene will slowly die.

 

[goodkid]

There is no right way to have a tournament. I'd rather go to no item tourneys, but some have items and with such big prizes, whats to complain about?

 

[Gamingboy]

I'll once again tell my story of woe: I'm in the 3rd round of a 5 round tournament. With both of us only have 1 stock left, a Bob-bomb drops in between the two of us and blows us both up. I leave the stage about 0.001 seconds before the other guy.


Fun? Yes. But also annoying as freaking hell. And that is why I am against items (especially items like Bob-Bombs, I mean, at least you've got a god**** chance of dodging a laser sword or Bumper!).

 

[shadydentist]

I have no problems with nintendo leaving items on in their tournament. The point of their tournament is to hype brawl, so the inclusion of items makes sense from their point of view.

 

[Yuna]

Correcto, you -can- whine to one another, it still stands that it is however how it's Nintendo is run and MLG -does- exist and it -does- give out big prizes, so you guys aren't -completely- misinterpreted. Granted, however, it is quite a big of a prize and I can see how a competitive might get his chances at such a lucrative thing be taken away because of a random Smart Bomb. In the same tone however, I can see that there is not much that can be done about that, but try your hardest with what skills you got, and as you yourself said. Not care about it or be mad if you lose to these circumstances.

It's more about losing due to chance than skill. I could care less if someone beat me because I screwed up (other than beat myself up about it). I care a lot if a random Bob-omb spawns above me while I'm fairing someone to death and I die first because of it, however.

 

[Rang Flash]

I may be wrong but didn't KoreanDJ win this tournament? I don't see what there is to complain about seeing that he was deserving of the win.

 

[Ced The Lad]

[quote="Chaosblade77]
The irony in this is that a lot of competitive players have said "If you want a tournament with items on then go make one" and now people are complaining about it once one actually exists[/quote]

To be fair, Blado, this affects quite a number of competitive players. You have to remember that the majority of us have never played this game at all. We've been dying inside just by watching videos. I know for me that this last week was unbearable due to the fact that tests were last week and this week was just plain dull. I severely doubt that any of us who have never played Brawl will pass up a chance to play the game early. Hence many of us will enter this tourney regardless of its rules.

So in that sense, I believe we have a legitimate right to complain, though others are more vocal about it. I'm personally annoyed by the rules because I have abysmal luck in item matches. (On one particular instance I had to ledge hop and ledge stall in a Peach mirror match because for an entire minute and a half my opponent got nothing but metal boxes, mushrooms, and stars)

We're just venting is all.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Settling for something you don't like and complaining about it just never sounds like a winning option, especially when patience is a factor to why you're settling.

 

[7thFonon]

I don't see what's the big deal, Nintendo isn't forcing anyone to come. And yes, items do have a luck factor, that is a given whether you agree with it or not. But honestly, with items set on default, it isn't that common for a random bomb to blow up on you. But when it happens, yeah, it's a big deal. But if that was the deciding factor in losing a fight, your opponent was definitely working you for most of the fight. Leave it be, Nintendo did make the game, and they are targeting a casual audience; Something that the company has mentioned numerous times that it wanted to focus on.
Tournaments are only what you make them, the only reason we have a set rule for no items is because WE as a community all agree on it. Nintendo is NOT a part of our community except for the fact that they supply us with the game itself.

 

[Raustblackdragon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8SiTV14ylY

Basically he says that items were used as an effort to level the playing field for those who might have never played a Smash game, and because more people were familiar with playing with them on.


So in other words, they were included to give Smash virgins a chance to win over veterans.

As Far as I know, Veterans have not lost the ability to use items.

It doesn't only affect the new guys.

 

[TK Wolf]

I like that they say items level the playing field. Now if someone starts screaming "OMG YOU AREN'T USING ITEMS YOU SUCK USE REAL SKILL" I can just point out that even Nintendo considers them a neutralizing factor.

Granted, I'll use items for a while as I did with Melee, and may still use them when I want to mess around, but you get what I'm saying, right? ^^;

 

[skiks]

Well start remembering how to grab and throw again.