Nintendo, How not to screw up the NX's Launch

[Foxus]

This is becoming a nostalgia fest.

Not really. Nostalgia is just thrown into the mix.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't like this derogatory use of "nostalgia". His opinions may differ from yours, he may feel modern Nintendo doesn't have the same charm as GCN era did or the games themselves aren't as up to par as they use to be. Here's the thing, that's his opinion.

It is no different than feeling Wii U is in fact up to par with GCN era or any era before. Just because one grew up with a certain era doesn't mean they cannot have an opinion that feels GCN or any other Nintendo era is the best.

It's all opinions guys.

 

[finalark]

I don't like this derogatory use of "nostalgia". His opinions may differ from yours, he may feel modern Nintendo doesn't have the same charm as GCN era did or the games themselves aren't as up to par as they use to be. Here's the thing, that's his opinion.

It is no different than feeling Wii U is in fact up to par with GCN era or any era before. Just because one grew up with a certain era doesn't mean they cannot have an opinion that feels GCN or any other Nintendo era is the best.

It's all opinions guys.

There's nothing wrong with some nostalgic musing, but when your nostalgia becomes so ingrained into your opinions that you can't enjoy a game unless you played it when you were eight years old then your nostalgia becomes a problem.

 

[Firus]

I don't like this derogatory use of "nostalgia". His opinions may differ from yours, he may feel modern Nintendo doesn't have the same charm as GCN era did or the games themselves aren't as up to par as they use to be. Here's the thing, that's his opinion.

It is no different than feeling Wii U is in fact up to par with GCN era or any era before. Just because one grew up with a certain era doesn't mean they cannot have an opinion that feels GCN or any other Nintendo era is the best.

It's all opinions guys.

I'm with you on one hand, because nostalgia is a 100% relevant reason to enjoy something and I dislike it when people pretend that somehow devalues someone's love of something. On the other hand, if someone is trying to speak about what Nintendo's doing right/wrong from a more objective standpoint and criticizing modern games for not having the charm of nostalgia, that's kind of a different story. It's honestly why I tend to stay away from discussions like this, because you'll pry my love for a lot of things from my cold, dead hands, but I recognize that I don't have as much of a "factual" basis to go off of so I just stick to enjoying stuff on my own.

The point is you can sit here and say "Personally, I enjoyed X era of gaming more than the current one" no problem, but it becomes a problem if you're trying to say Nintendo is doing something wrong because of it. You have to try and remove bias if you're going to get into a discussion like that, and nostalgia is the prime of bias. I don't think anybody's talking about nostalgia to discredit his liking one thing or another, just to say that it isn't necessarily relevant to how a business should or shouldn't be handling things.

 

[FunAtParties]

I like how people just assume Nintendo can buy out major companies like SEGA, Capcom, Konami, Platinum Games etc...

Would it be nice? Yeah, definitely but outside of Konami, I don't see any of these companies going under soon, even then they have to outbid any other potential buyers (and I'm sure companies like Sony, Microsoft, EA, Activision, etc.. are interested in some of those IPs, so it's not like it's going to be easy or cheap). Even assuming they can pull it off, they would then need to actually make the games, something that they've struggled with doing with their own franchises. It'd probably be cheaper to pay other companies to just make games for them, at least in the short term.

I think if Nintendo is really going to make acquisitions it needs to be smaller companies, and individual IPs. Companies like Wayforward, Shin'en, Yacht Club, Choice Provisions, and Inti are all small studios that have tons of potential on multiple markets. As for the individual IPs, as previously mentioned, Konami may be selling soon. Metal Gear may not be in the cards, but Bomberman, Castlevania, Mystical Ninja, Rocket Knight, and Frogger may all very well be.

Just something to think about.

 

[Deleted member]

There's nothing wrong with some nostalgic musing, but when your nostalgia becomes so ingrained into your opinions that you can't enjoy a game unless you played it when you were eight years old then your nostalgia becomes a problem.

I am actually a strong believer that nostalgia is in itself the definition, and that is just a memory of a past good time. That one memory cannot carry one's will and view for too long. Someone has to truly feel that these certain games have the qualities of greatness and feels newer games by this company, (in this particular instance of this person's opinion) don't for a reason. A memory of a past good time won't make someone this motivated and it won't fuel this. He actually believes on his own accord, of his own opinion, that these previous games of old do something that the newer one's don't.

Either or not he can or cannot enjoy is merely his opinion, but I think the real thing he is trying to state is that he feels modern Nintendo is inferior and that they should create games in their older styles to win over their current market. He feels that is the path they should take.

And it is perfectly fine to disagree with that, but it is all opinions that dicate this, not nostalgia. Nostalgia isn't enough.

I'm with you on one hand, because nostalgia is a 100% relevant reason to enjoy something and I dislike it when people pretend that somehow devalues someone's love of something. On the other hand, if someone is trying to speak about what Nintendo's doing right/wrong from a more objective standpoint and criticizing modern games for not having the charm of nostalgia, that's kind of a different story. It's honestly why I tend to stay away from discussions like this, because you'll pry my love for a lot of things from my cold, dead hands, but I recognize that I don't have as much of a "factual" basis to go off of so I just stick to enjoying stuff on my own.

The point is you can sit here and say "Personally, I enjoyed X era of gaming more than the current one" no problem, but it becomes a problem if you're trying to say Nintendo is doing something wrong because of it. You have to try and remove bias if you're going to get into a discussion like that, and nostalgia is the prime of bias. I don't think anybody's talking about nostalgia to discredit his liking one thing or another, just to say that it isn't necessarily relevant to how a business should or shouldn't be handling things.

I for one only see nostalgia as a memory of a good time I had, but if I had this good time it means that the game is doing something that lead to my enjoyment. The first time always feels special for sure when we are introduced to something new and groundbreaking, but that memory cannot carry everything. It is the game that we truly enjoy no matter how much time has past that keeps us coming back.

As for the second part, my response to finalark is also my response to this second paragraph.

 

[Foxus]

The thing is this regarding nostalgia.

I make my observations between games then and now in terms of the nature of the characters, the scenarios, comparing and contrasting the quality of the games, that's what my basis is made off of. I showed a example of that comparing Mario Party 4 and Mario Party 9, released ten years apart. That's the analysis I've based the last 5 post of mine here on.

I don't criticize or rant just to see myself speak, or rack up the post count. I point out the good Nintendo did/does, point out where they could do better, and offer my solutions as a band-aid to the messups I think Nintendo made.

 

[Firus]

I am actually a strong believer that nostalgia is in itself the definition, and that is just a memory of a past good time. That one memory cannot carry one's will and view for too long. Someone has to truly feel that these certain games have the qualities of greatness and feels newer games by this company, (in this particular instance of this person's opinion) don't for a reason. A memory of a past good time won't make someone this motivated and it won't fuel this. He actually believes on his own accord, of his own opinion, that these previous games of old do something that the newer one's don't.

Either or not he can or cannot enjoy is merely his opinion, but I think the real thing he is trying to state is that he feels modern Nintendo is inferior and that they should create games in their older styles to win over their current market. He feels that is the path they should take.

And it is perfectly fine to disagree with that, but it is all opinions that dicate this, not nostalgia. Nostalgia isn't enough.


I for one only see nostalgia as a memory of a good time I had, but if I had this good time it means that the game is doing something that lead to my enjoyment. The first time always feels special for sure when we are introduced to something new and groundbreaking, but that memory cannot carry everything. It is the game that we truly enjoy no matter how much time has past that keeps us coming back.

As for the second part, my response to finalark is also my response to this second paragraph.

I'm not saying nostalgia makes you love horrible games, that Foxus only loves these games because of nostalgia and otherwise they're trash (I love most of the games he's talking about too). I'm not saying he's defending bad games. I'm more saying that the "magic" that you don't find looking at new games is a result of nostalgia. I couldn't really say that I disagree that most modern games have not had the same magic for me as older games, games that I played when I was younger, but I can look from a more objective standpoint and recognize that it's not because Nintendo is making awful games, it's because I'm getting older and I don't have the same time and energy and ability to have the same play sessions with my friends (in the case of multiplayer games). Games you experience at a younger age almost always seem to have a kind of magic that can't be replicated by modern games no matter how good.

Of course some of their games lately have not been as good. Mario Party 9 seems like a disaster to me from everything I've seen of it, the whole thing where everybody's on one vehicle the whole time, etc. But I don't think that's because of a greater trend necessarily. (I'd argue it's partially because Mario Party is kind of a "played one, played 'em all" deal, and because there's way too many games and the idea is tired by now, but.)

And when you're looking back to eras that were not that successful for Nintendo, eras where "hardcore" gamers abandoned Nintendo and trashed their games as being childish, and start saying that Nintendo can improve their business today by listening to their fans and making those same games again...I mean, if we're actually trying to say how Nintendo can do better as a business, that just doesn't make sense. I'd love to get a GameCube 2.0, but I don't think that would be successful, and I don't think anybody would recognize it as a true GameCube 2.0 because the games wouldn't have that same magic.

 

[Foxus]

I'm not saying nostalgia makes you love horrible games, that Foxus only loves these games because of nostalgia and otherwise they're trash (I love most of the games he's talking about too). I'm not saying he's defending bad games. I'm more saying that the "magic" that you don't find looking at new games is a result of nostalgia. I couldn't really say that I disagree that most modern games have not had the same magic for me as older games, games that I played when I was younger, but I can look from a more objective standpoint and recognize that it's not because Nintendo is making awful games, it's because I'm getting older and I don't have the same time and energy and ability to have the same play sessions with my friends (in the case of multiplayer games). Games you experience at a younger age almost always seem to have a kind of magic that can't be replicated by modern games no matter how good.

Of course some of their games lately have not been as good. Mario Party 9 seems like a disaster to me from everything I've seen of it, the whole thing where everybody's on one vehicle the whole time, etc. But I don't think that's because of a greater trend necessarily. (I'd argue it's partially because Mario Party is kind of a "played one, played 'em all" deal, and because there's way too many games and the idea is tired by now, but.)

And when you're looking back to eras that were not that successful for Nintendo, eras where "hardcore" gamers abandoned Nintendo and trashed their games as being childish, and start saying that Nintendo can improve their business today by listening to their fans and making those same games again...I mean, if we're actually trying to say how Nintendo can do better as a business, that just doesn't make sense. I'd love to get a GameCube 2.0, but I don't think that would be successful, and I don't think anybody would recognize it as a true GameCube 2.0 because the games wouldn't have that same magic.

I invite people to play MP 9, the hardest difficulty on one of the boards, then do the same thing on MP 4, or MP 5. Take notice of the differences in the minigames and the diversity of the controls.

Its not that I lack the ability to see modern games and the "magic" objectively, its the fact that I pay attention to detail, that I make observations from the instant the first E3 demo is released. I compare what would make or break that game to what would make or break another game, and then make my findings out on the basis of a educated hypothesis.

Those millions of hours I spent on Super Mario 64 when I was 5 or 6 can still apply today, it just depends on what game that comes out. I will be curious to see what return Star Fox Zero makes in terms of profits.

Shouldn't Nintendo be listening to their fans though? The people burning up $60 for a video game, a couple hundred in a console, and whatever may be in the cost of accessories (i.e. Amiibos for $12 a pop). The first rule of business is listening to customers. I don't think its unreasonable or childish to ask Nintendo to do that, it would be just business as usual.

 

[Opossum]

Whenever I see someone say "Nintendo should buy (insert major third party company)" I cringe.


Badly.

 

[Firus]

Shouldn't Nintendo be listening to their fans though? The people burning up $60 for a video game, a couple hundred in a console, and whatever may be in the cost of accessories (i.e. Amiibos for $12 a pop). The first rule of business is listening to customers. I don't think its unreasonable or childish to ask Nintendo to do that, it would be just business as usual.

I'm not saying they shouldn't listen to their fans and customers (I guess I did sort of say that, I should've clarified that better), but the "hardcore" gaming crowd tends to overestimate how much of the market they are. The people saying they miss the GameCube era aren't their only customers and listening to them isn't necessarily the most profitable thing for them. People were saying the same thing about how Nintendo should be listening to the fans back in the Wii era (I was one of them), but Nintendo made a ton of money with the Wii after having been burned by trying to appeal to the "hardcore" back in the GameCube days.

I am by no means an expert on business and maybe in the long run it would be more profitable to appeal to them, but that isn't necessarily a given and that's worth considering.

 

[Foxus]

I'm not saying they shouldn't listen to their fans and customers (I guess I did sort of say that, I should've clarified that better), but the "hardcore" gaming crowd tends to overestimate how much of the market they are. The people saying they miss the GameCube era aren't their only customers and listening to them isn't necessarily the most profitable thing for them. People were saying the same thing about how Nintendo should be listening to the fans back in the Wii era (I was one of them), but Nintendo made a ton of money with the Wii after having been burned by trying to appeal to the "hardcore" back in the GameCube days.

I am by no means an expert on business and maybe in the long run it would be more profitable to appeal to them, but that isn't necessarily a given and that's worth considering.

Well I wouldn't say only this segment of fans or that segment of fans, but all segments of fans. See what a majority of the people who were most impressed by the N64 are saying, what the majority of people who were most impressed by the GCN are saying, and so forth. Then develop the product around those statistics. No product is perfect. We're still in the pursuit of perfection but we're not there yet.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

Whenever I see someone say "Nintendo should buy (insert major third party company)" I cringe.


Badly.

Same here. I highly doubt it'll make a difference if Nintendo bought a third party company anyway. They'll probably screw the company even more if this happened.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not saying nostalgia makes you love horrible games, that Foxus only loves these games because of nostalgia and otherwise they're trash (I love most of the games he's talking about too). I'm not saying he's defending bad games. I'm more saying that the "magic" that you don't find looking at new games is a result of nostalgia. I couldn't really say that I disagree that most modern games have not had the same magic for me as older games, games that I played when I was younger, but I can look from a more objective standpoint and recognize that it's not because Nintendo is making awful games, it's because I'm getting older and I don't have the same time and energy and ability to have the same play sessions with my friends (in the case of multiplayer games). Games you experience at a younger age almost always seem to have a kind of magic that can't be replicated by modern games no matter how good.

Of course some of their games lately have not been as good. Mario Party 9 seems like a disaster to me from everything I've seen of it, the whole thing where everybody's on one vehicle the whole time, etc. But I don't think that's because of a greater trend necessarily. (I'd argue it's partially because Mario Party is kind of a "played one, played 'em all" deal, and because there's way too many games and the idea is tired by now, but.)

And when you're looking back to eras that were not that successful for Nintendo, eras where "hardcore" gamers abandoned Nintendo and trashed their games as being childish, and start saying that Nintendo can improve their business today by listening to their fans and making those same games again...I mean, if we're actually trying to say how Nintendo can do better as a business, that just doesn't make sense. I'd love to get a GameCube 2.0, but I don't think that would be successful, and I don't think anybody would recognize it as a true GameCube 2.0 because the games wouldn't have that same magic.

Actually, I don't view it in the way that I'm getting older if I feel a certain way. For me it is not the case, I still feel the magic despite being 25 years old and have been playing since I was 4 with a NES. I may have had less "magical" experiences as of late, but when I found something that truly clicks with me like Mario 3D World or Sonic Generations, I know it is not merely me being young in my past leading to it.

Times change things. Different developers work on the same franchises, that in itself will change a dynamic of a game or what one would deem as quality or not quality or any of the other shades of gray in-between.

When I played 3D World I felt like for the first time in a very long time that Nintendo gave me that magic again and ever since then they have been making much better game design choices (imo). I mean even with Splatoon I'm getting that. I really do feel that stuff during the Wii era and early Wii U era weren't whetting what I was truly craving, what I find as quality, but I feel Nintendo now is on the right path. However this is all of my opinion and I respect anyone's opinion who disagrees or agrees with me.

I just want to note that for me, and for other people it's not me getting older that is changing things, It's what we are getting and the differences in designs as time goes on changes and evolves that effects my enjoyment.

 

[IanTheGamer]

The Wii was a short term gain, but now the casual gamer is long gone, and Nintendo is only left with their loyal fans and they are a small majority

 

[Deleted member]

I think their loyal fans aren't small in number, Wii U just had a confusing and rough start with a higher price tag than a typical Nintendo system. Their loyal fans are what keep them afloat which is what they've realized as Miyamoto stated a bit back.

 

[Firus]

Actually, I don't view it in the way that I'm getting older if I feel a certain way. For me it is not the case, I still feel the magic despite being 25 years old and have been playing since I was 4 with a NES. I may have had less "magical" experiences as of late, but when I found something that truly clicks with me like Mario 3D World or Sonic Generations, I know it is not merely me being young in my past leading to it.

Times change things. Different developers work on the same franchises, that in itself will change a dynamic of a game or what one would deem as quality or not quality or any of the other shades of gray in-between.

When I played 3D World I felt like for the first time in a very long time that Nintendo gave me that magic again and ever since then they have been making much better game design choices (imo). I mean even with Splatoon I'm getting that. I really do feel that stuff during the Wii era and early Wii U era weren't whetting what I was truly craving, what I find as quality, but I feel Nintendo now is on the right path. However this is all of my opinion and I respect anyone's opinion who disagrees or agrees with me.

I just want to note that for me, and for other people it's not me getting older that is changing things, It's what we are getting and the differences in designs as time goes on changes and evolves that effects my enjoyment.

Fair enough. As I said, it's not all modern games, just most that fail to do that for me. Which isn't to say I don't enjoy them, but I personally think "magic" often comes from something more than just a great game. My experiences with Pokemon X/Y had a similar magic to my experiences with Pokemon Red/Blue, because I was able to experience them with my friends in a similar fashion to how I experienced the original games with my sisters. I have particular attachments to Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Sunshine because of a specific point in time when I was replaying them. (But, notably, I replayed through Super Mario 64 and played through Galaxy 2 around the same time and don't feel that attachment to either of them and have a plethora of issues with the both of them.) Etc. etc.

I just don't think you can underestimate the amount of impact nostalgia has on your opinions and perceptions. That pretty much is the point that I stand by here. As somebody who lives in nostalgia, I frequently have far more positive perceptions of things -- not just video games, sometimes life experiences -- than I should, and sometimes more than I did in the actual moment. And of course, media that nostalgia has impacted for me still ends up being enjoyable no matter what, and as I said I think nostalgia is a valid reason to enjoy something, I just think it's easy for nostalgia to affect your opinion of something in a way that makes it hard to talk objectively about it, and if you don't really separate those two then it makes it difficult to analyze what other people are doing.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

The Wii was a short term gain, but now the casual gamer is long gone, and Nintendo is only left with their loyal fans and they are a small majority

They lost their casual audience ever since smartphones & tablets came out. Their loyal fanbase is the reason why they're still around to begin with.

 

[IanTheGamer]

They lost their casual audience ever since smartphones & tablets came out. Their loyal fanbase is the reason why they're still around to begin with.

And now Nintendo needs to focus on the hardcore crowd, they are the only way Nintendocan expand their audience now, since the idiot casuals have left for the next flavor-of-the-month F2P scam, (they have the attention span of a mosquito), and they aint coming back, Nintendo's loyal fans alone ain't gonna make a huge profit

 

[Foxus]

While I understand the legality issues that can ensue, I think Nintendo should listen to the ideas of their fanbase instead of the "Don't worry, our R&D team has 4-5 years worth of games you'll love. Put your trust in us." Imagine if Hiyoshi Yamamuchi and Shigeru Miyamoto were never able to bring their ideas to life, imagine where we could be right now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

While I understand the legality issues that can ensue, I think Nintendo should listen to the ideas of their fanbase instead of the "Don't worry, our R&D team has 4-5 years worth of games you'll love. Put your trust in us." Imagine if Hiyoshi Yamamuchi and Shigeru Miyamoto were never able to bring their ideas to life, imagine where we could be right now.

This is starting to reek of elitism.

Like really, that was just spiteful.




And calling casuals "those idiot casuals" is insulting too.

You two need to worry more about your attitude than whatever Nintendo is doing. Jeez.

 

[finalark]

Imagine if Hiyoshi Yamamuchi and Shigeru Miyamoto were never able to bring their ideas to life, imagine where we could be right now.

We'd be in a boring world with no video games.

I don't know if you're trying to imply that things would somehow be better in this scenario, but you are wrong.

No Yamauchi and no Miyamoto means that Nintendo wouldn't have decided to take a risk and try to bring video games to the Japanese household, meaning no NES, which in turn means no SNES, N64, GCN, Wii, Wii U or any of their handhelds.

No NES means no Master System, since the success of the NES is what convinced SEGA to make the push into the console market. No Master System means no Genesis, Saturn or Dreamcast.

No SNES/Genesis conflict means no PlayStation to be born of a partnership gone wrong. In turn, this means no PS2, PS3 or PS4.

No PlayStation means no non-gaming company to prove to other non-gaming companies that they could viably get into the console market, meaning no Xbox. Thus no Xbox 360 or Xbox One.

With no Yamauchi or Miyamoto games would have never left arcades in the east and we'd just have PC games as an incredibly niche hobby in the west.

 

[Foxus]

We'd be in a boring world with no video games.

I don't know if you're trying to imply that things would somehow be better in this scenario, but you are wrong.

No Yamauchi and no Miyamoto means that Nintendo wouldn't have decided to take a risk and try to bring video games to the Japanese household, meaning no NES, which in turn means no SNES, N64, GCN, Wii, Wii U or any of their handhelds.

No NES means no Master System, since the success of the NES is what convinced SEGA to make the push into the console market. No Master System means no Genesis, Saturn or Dreamcast.

No SNES/Genesis conflict means no PlayStation to be born of a partnership gone wrong. In turn, this means no PS2, PS3 or PS4.

No PlayStation means no non-gaming company to prove to other non-gaming companies that they could viably get into the console market, meaning no Xbox. Thus no Xbox 360 or Xbox One.

With no Yamauchi or Miyamoto games would have never left arcades in the east and we'd just have PC games as an incredibly niche hobby in the west.

The point I was trying to make was if Nintendo exercised as strict of a "No Unsolicited" policy then as they do now, what you described most likely would be the outcome.

This is starting to reek of elitism.

Like really, that was just spiteful.




And calling casuals "those idiot casuals" is insulting too.

You two need to worry more about your attitude than whatever Nintendo is doing. Jeez.

My apologies if that supposedly came off as spiteful, maybe it was a bit extreme of a example, but it was, as I said above, aiming to prove the point that creativity should not be unsolicited, that Nintendo should listen and develop their products, both consoles and games, around their loyal fans over taking a shot in the dark, if that makes any sense. That "4-5 years" thing I made in my original post is similar to what Nintendo has up on their website in the FAQ section.

When you cut off creative ideas from the outside, you block opportunity to create new worlds. In the end that was food for thought, that Nintendo's development should revolve around their global fanbase.

 

[IanTheGamer]

I really do think that Nintendo really needs to stop focusing only on what the Japanese like, that's not bad and all,but what sells in Japan doesn't always sell in The West, NoA and NoE really should have the autonomy to have games made that are suited to Western tastes and intended for the Western market

 

[Heroine of Winds]

And now Nintendo needs to focus on the hardcore crowd, they are the only way Nintendocan expand their audience now, since the idiot casuals have left for the next flavor-of-the-month F2P scam, (they have the attention span of a mosquito), and they aint coming back, Nintendo's loyal fans alone ain't gonna make a huge profit

Exactly. Their loyal fanbase isn't gonna be enough for them in order to stay alive. If they can try and gain their hardcore audience back, then maybe they'll have a much bigger install base than just their fans.

I really do think that Nintendo really needs to stop focusing only on what the Japanese like, that's not bad and all,but what sells in Japan doesn't always sell in The West, NoA and NoE really should have the autonomy to have games made that are suited to Western tastes and intended for the Western market

This is one of the things they need to improve on. Making games that fit western tastes more would be a good thing for them. I mean, do you see games like that SMT x FE game sell millions in the West unless you're a fan of the type of game it is? Not many people are gonna buy those types of games anyway because they may find it 'too Japanese' for their tastes.

Of course, this is coming from someone who plays 'too Japanese' games herself like Katamari, Puyo Puyo, & Splatoon.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Exactly. Their loyal fanbase isn't gonna be enough for them in order to stay alive. If they can try and gain their hardcore audience back, then maybe they'll have a much bigger install base than just their fans.



This is one of the things they need to improve on. Making games that fit western tastes more would be a good thing for them. I mean, do you see games like that SMT x FE game sell millions in the West unless you're a fan of the type of game it is? Not many people are gonna buy those types of games anyway because they may find it 'too Japanese' for their tastes.

Of course, this is coming from someone who plays 'too Japanese' games herself like Katamari, Puyo Puyo, & Splatoon.

Exactly, Metroid is an example of an IP that sells really well

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Exactly, Metroid is an example of an IP that sells really well

Wrong.

For some reason it keeps selling worse.

MP3 didn't sell well at all for some reason despite the Wii's huge install base.

 

[Foxus]

Wait.....Splatoon is a Japanese game?

When did I miss that memo?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wait.....Splatoon is a Japanese game?

When did I miss that memo?

It's made by Nintendo EAD.

Same studio that makes Mario and Zelda.

Maybe you don't know them as well as you thought.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

Wait.....Splatoon is a Japanese game?

When did I miss that memo?

Uh, it's made by Nintendo EAD, dude. I'm surprised you didn't know this already.

 

[finalark]

This is one of the things they need to improve on. Making games that fit western tastes more would be a good thing for them. I mean, do you see games like that SMT x FE game sell millions in the West unless you're a fan of the type of game it is?

Not to mention SMT x FE is a giant slap to the balls to every SMT and/or Fire Emblem fan. By trying to shoot for a wider audience they shot too wide to the point where fans of the IPs aren't interested in the game and the people who are interested don't care about SMT or FE.

It is the literal the definition of soulless otaku trash born of Japanese focus groups. I don't even hate anime or manga or anything. Just don't promise me Yu Yu Hakusho when all you've got K On.

@ Foxus Nintendo is a Japanese company. Unless stated otherwise its safe to assume that all of their games are Japanese.

 

[Foxus]

It's made by Nintendo EAD.

Same studio that makes Mario and Zelda.

Maybe you don't know them as well as you thought.

I know the game development companies for Nintendo are mainly Japanese, with the exception of Retro Studios (which is here in the USA).

I don't know where every single Nintendo title is developed at.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

I know the game development companies for Nintendo are mainly Japanese, with the exception of Retro Studios (which is here in the USA).

I don't know where every single Nintendo title is developed at.

Next Level Games is located in Canada (I think), so not every development company is Japanese. Both Hal Laboratories & Intelligent Systems for example are Japanese developers. Overall, Nintendo as a whole (excluding Retro Studios & Next Level Games) are located in Japan.

 

[GreenKirby]

Uh, it's made by Nintendo EAD, dude. I'm surprised you didn't know this already.

It also takes place in an obviously Japanese city

As for the topic at hand, let's face it, 3rd parties are never coming back to Nintendo. So people should really say they should stop trying to cater to them. They did cater to them during the Wii and Wii U era. And what we got was shovelware for Wii and basically 3rd parties throwing Nintendo under the bus for the Wii U

 

[FunAtParties]

It also takes place in an obviously Japanese city

As for the topic at hand, let's face it, 3rd parties are never coming back to Nintendo. So people should really say they should stop trying to cater to them. They did cater to them during the Wii and Wii U era. And what we got was shovelware for Wii and basically 3rd parties throwing Nintendo under the bus for the Wii U

They absolutely did not "cater to third parties". For the Wii AND Wii U the architecture was different enough from the other consoles that it would be like developing a whole 'nother game just to get a decent copy on Nintendo systems. For the Gamecube and the N64 it was the format that made it more costly, and more difficult to develop for apparently, which is why they got abandoned by third parties in the first place.

The fact is Nintendo makes it difficult for third parties to even try to support them, and with poor sales numbers for the games that actually DO come out for Nintendo consoles, why would they develop for Nintendo? If Nintendo wants third party support, they have the means to do so, but they refuse to put any effort into it which is why Nintendo fans will always have to buy a second console to play great 3rd party games.

 

[Heroine of Winds]

As for the topic at hand, let's face it, 3rd parties are never coming back to Nintendo. So people should really say they should stop trying to cater to them. They did cater to them during the Wii and Wii U era. And what we got was shovelware for Wii and basically 3rd parties throwing Nintendo under the bus for the Wii U

Sadly, this sounds like the case with Nintendo consoles. This is why lately I've been going to PC in terms of getting third party games that will most likely not be for the Wii U. I don't own a PS4, so for the time being, PC will be my go to place for third party. Nintendo really screwed third party companies up since the N64, so those companies are giving Nintendo their just desserts by abandoning them.

 

[Foxus]

Sadly, this sounds like the case with Nintendo consoles. This is why lately I've been going to PC in terms of getting third party games that will most likely not be for the Wii U. I don't own a PS4, so for the time being, PC will be my go to place for third party. Nintendo really screwed third party companies up since the N64, so those companies are giving Nintendo their just desserts by abandoning them.

Yous sure? What about Rare and Donkey Kong Country, Diddy Kong Racing, or Goldeneye 007. Or Perfect Dark? Great titles for the N64. Nintendo and Rare worked well together, I think the biggest screw up was Nintendo not acquiring Rare and letting Microsoft get their hands on them. I never zero anything out, even if things look bleak. It may not be now, or even 5 years from now, but I always try to remain optimistic about some type of acquisition or business venture at one point.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yous sure? What about Rare and Donkey Kong Country, Diddy Kong Racing, or Goldeneye 007. Or Perfect Dark? Great titles for the N64. Nintendo and Rare worked well together, I think the biggest screw up was Nintendo not acquiring Rare and letting Microsoft get their hands on them. I never zero anything out, even if things look bleak. It may not be now, or even 5 years from now, but I always try to remain optimistic about some type of acquisition or business venture at one point.

Rare was a Nintendo 2nd Party at the time, not 3rd party.

 

[Foxus]

Rare was a Nintendo 2nd Party at the time, not 3rd party.

Maybe I'm getting 2nd Parties and 3rd Parties confused here. What are these 3rd Parties people are considering more of a negative for Nintendo than a positive?

 

[FunAtParties]

Maybe I'm getting 2nd Parties and 3rd Parties confused here. What are these 3rd Parties people are considering more of a negative for Nintendo than a positive?

2nd parties are partially owned by a company. When Rare was killing it for Nintendo back in the 90's and early 00's, Nintendo owned 49% of them. This doesn't necessarily disallow a 2nd party company from developing for another studio (in the Rare example they could have developed for someone else seeing that they own the controlling stake (more than 50%), but it wouldn't really have been beneficial to them). Nintendo was paying the development costs of their games, plus allowing them to keep their IP rights, why would Rare develop anywhere else?

3rd parties, on the other hand, own themselves, and could develop wherever they want really. Companies that fall under this label are some of the most important in the industry. Square-Enix, Bethesda, Rockstar, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Capcom, SEGA, Namco, Konami are some notable ones just to name a few. Nintendo has missed out on the majority of releases from these companies for a long, long time, which has hurt them, and their fans dearly.

Now this has been a problem for Nintendo ever since Sony entered the gaming industry. To sum up the entire thing, Nintendo made life difficult on third parties while Sony's entry with discs made it easy, so third parties left Nintendo en masse, which is probably the only reason Sony ever got big in the first place. Just an opinion here, but I don't see Playstation ever taking off without Final Fantasy 7 being an exclusive. Ever since the first Playstation, Nintendo hasn't helped themselves in getting third party support. With Gamecube the disc format was apparently too difficult and expensive to develop for, with the Wii the architecture was too different (while PS3 and X1 was practically the same), same has happened this gen with the Wii U. If the NX does go back to cartridge format, unless Nintendo plans on paying development and/or production/publishing costs, the lack of third party support won't change.